Looking for a template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Looking for a template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tiluvias99
05-01-07, 04:43 PM Alright, I've been thinking. Create Undead has always been a problem for me because it doesn't allow one to control the created undead. This would normally be fixed through Command Undead, but that only really works against mindless undead. And the best use of create undead, the bone and corpse creature templates, which allow the creature to retain all of their abilities, don't give mindless undead.

So, I got an idea. What if there were a way to make a potential undead mindless before raising him, so that you get raise him as a bone/corpse creature and still get control over him with Command Undead (since he would retain the mindless trait).

Then you would have complete domination over any creature (not just humanoid, like with Dread Warriors) and that creature would retain all of it's abilities. And it would never break free unless you forgot to cast Command Undead or something.

The only problem is getting the mindless trait on there.

Is there a way to do this?
Part-Human2
05-01-07, 06:01 PM Cross posting is against CoC.

By Mindless trait you mean "Int - " (ie a nonability Intelligence score)?

Are you looking for a solution for Arcane casters to Control undead as Evil Clerics can with Turn Undead?
tiluvias99
05-01-07, 07:50 PM Cross posting is against CoC.Well, I apologize for that then. I find it to be a very useful practice however, as it is not very often that those who roam the CO boards come to the regular boards, and vice versa. The two groups tend to have very different opinions and I have found many times that one will see what the other misses.By Mindless trait you mean "Int - " (ie a nonability Intelligence score)?Either that, or, perhaps a special quality or trait that says "Mindless". Both would work, as long as the creature in question would keep a good portion of their abilities.Are you looking for a solution for Arcane casters to Control undead as Evil Clerics can with Turn Undead?That, and Evil Clerics too. Evil Clerics (barring extreme optimization) can only command undead that is too low of a level to be any use. Command Undead (the spell) makes no distinctions of level, and is thus far more useful.

Also, giving orders to a Commanded Undead (via cleric rebuking) requires a standard action, which sucks.
tiluvias99
05-02-07, 03:40 PM ga-bump. Anyone have any ideas?
Part-Human2
05-02-07, 04:51 PM Essential you want a solution for total control of intelligent undead by making them non-intelligent. There is no official way to make non-intelligent version of intelligent undead. Definitely no templates that work.

There are ways to have obedient undead. The Thrallherd PrC (EPH, SRD, psionic) have loyal thralls and believers - an agreeable DM would allow them to be undead.

I'd rephrase the request and repost on the Character Optimization Board. Ask for for a no-save way to totally control intelligent undead or something like that.
tiluvias99
05-02-07, 09:34 PM Essential you want a solution for total control of intelligent undead by making them non-intelligent. There is no official way to make non-intelligent version of intelligent undead. Definitely no templates that work.Crap!I'd rephrase the request and repost on the Character Optimization Board. Ask for for a no-save way to totally control intelligent undead or something like that.I have been. Some solutions that have been suggested:

Animate Dead (Absolute control, but doesn't give any special abilities. Sucks)
Create Undead to make Bone/Corpse creatures (Gives all special abilities, but doesn't give any method of control. Sucks)

Rebuke/Command (Only works against undead with very low hit die)
Command Undead (Amazing, but only works on Mindless Undead)
Control Undead (Allows a Save, only works for a very short time)
Animate Dread Warrior (Amazing, but only works on humanoids)
Command Undead + Diplomacy (Get an intelligent undead to Helpful- doesn't give total control though)
Dominate Monster with Greater Metamagic Rod of 'Song of the Dead' (Works great, but requires 9th level spells and still allows a save)

So I've got quite a few ideas. However, Command Undead is ridiculously good- and if there were a way I could apply that to undead that have special abilities or spells (mindless undead are generally meat shields) then that would be crazy cool. That's what I'm trying to do with this.

There are a few Vermin that could be made into bone or corpse creatures and controlled via Command Undead, but there's not much else out there that's naturally mindless and has any special abilities worth keeping. Thus, a template that could make something mindless (while retaining it's abilities) would rock hard core.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tiluvias99 05-01-07, 04:43 PM	Alright, I've been thinking. Create Undead has always been a problem for me because it doesn't allow one to control the created undead. This would normally be fixed through Command Undead, but that only really works against mindless undead. And the best use of create undead, the bone and corpse creature templates, which allow the creature to retain all of their abilities, don't give mindless undead. So, I got an idea. What if there were a way to make a potential undead mindless before raising him, so that you get raise him as a bone/corpse creature and still get control over him with Command Undead (since he would retain the mindless trait). Then you would have complete domination over any creature (not just humanoid, like with Dread Warriors) and that creature would retain all of it's abilities. And it would never break free unless you forgot to cast Command Undead or something. The only problem is getting the mindless trait on there. Is there a way to do this?
Part-Human2 05-01-07, 06:01 PM	Cross posting is against CoC. By Mindless trait you mean "Int - " (ie a nonability Intelligence score)? Are you looking for a solution for Arcane casters to Control undead as Evil Clerics can with Turn Undead?
tiluvias99 05-01-07, 07:50 PM	Cross posting is against CoC.Well, I apologize for that then. I find it to be a very useful practice however, as it is not very often that those who roam the CO boards come to the regular boards, and vice versa. The two groups tend to have very different opinions and I have found many times that one will see what the other misses.By Mindless trait you mean "Int - " (ie a nonability Intelligence score)?Either that, or, perhaps a special quality or trait that says "Mindless". Both would work, as long as the creature in question would keep a good portion of their abilities.Are you looking for a solution for Arcane casters to Control undead as Evil Clerics can with Turn Undead?That, and Evil Clerics too. Evil Clerics (barring extreme optimization) can only command undead that is too low of a level to be any use. Command Undead (the spell) makes no distinctions of level, and is thus far more useful. Also, giving orders to a Commanded Undead (via cleric rebuking) requires a standard action, which sucks.
tiluvias99 05-02-07, 03:40 PM	ga-bump. Anyone have any ideas?
Part-Human2 05-02-07, 04:51 PM	Essential you want a solution for total control of intelligent undead by making them non-intelligent. There is no official way to make non-intelligent version of intelligent undead. Definitely no templates that work. There are ways to have obedient undead. The Thrallherd PrC (EPH, SRD, psionic) have loyal thralls and believers - an agreeable DM would allow them to be undead. I'd rephrase the request and repost on the Character Optimization Board. Ask for for a no-save way to totally control intelligent undead or something like that.
tiluvias99 05-02-07, 09:34 PM	Essential you want a solution for total control of intelligent undead by making them non-intelligent. There is no official way to make non-intelligent version of intelligent undead. Definitely no templates that work.Crap!I'd rephrase the request and repost on the Character Optimization Board. Ask for for a no-save way to totally control intelligent undead or something like that.I have been. Some solutions that have been suggested: Animate Dead (Absolute control, but doesn't give any special abilities. Sucks) Create Undead to make Bone/Corpse creatures (Gives all special abilities, but doesn't give any method of control. Sucks) Rebuke/Command (Only works against undead with very low hit die) Command Undead (Amazing, but only works on Mindless Undead) Control Undead (Allows a Save, only works for a very short time) Animate Dread Warrior (Amazing, but only works on humanoids) Command Undead + Diplomacy (Get an intelligent undead to Helpful- doesn't give total control though) Dominate Monster with Greater Metamagic Rod of 'Song of the Dead' (Works great, but requires 9th level spells and still allows a save) So I've got quite a few ideas. However, Command Undead is ridiculously good- and if there were a way I could apply that to undead that have special abilities or spells (mindless undead are generally meat shields) then that would be crazy cool. That's what I'm trying to do with this. There are a few Vermin that could be made into bone or corpse creatures and controlled via Command Undead, but there's not much else out there that's naturally mindless and has any special abilities worth keeping. Thus, a template that could make something mindless (while retaining it's abilities) would rock hard core.