looking for Something similiar to the mongol horde [Archive] - Wizards Community

looking for Something similiar to the mongol horde [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
skarousis
06-29-07, 07:56 PM Long time lurker first time poster, whats going on everyone?

creating my first campaign (i've ran numerous one shots) and i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

They'd have to be stout and strong, and preferably something mobile. I haven't decided if i'll be using cavalry yet, but i probably will, so if they are small enough to ride horses thatd be great. i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6). Also i'm trying to stay away from using humans to make it a little bit more interesting.

Any ideas would be great!
Orchomenos
06-29-07, 08:54 PM Probably not very original, but I suggest to go with an amalgame of goblinoids, kobolds & orcs, leaded by Desert Goblins (from Unearthed Arcana). With their +4 racial bonus on Ride checks, goblins make wonderful cavaliers.

Part of their success was due to alliances made with Turkic and other Asian nomads.

You could have a specific tribe of goblins who made alliance with neighboring hobgoblins, bugbears and/or orc.

Genghis Khan, through political manipulation and military might, united the nomadic, previously ever-rivaling Mongol-Turkic tribes under his rule by 1206.
Goblins have -2 to charisma. Your "Gengis Khan" could be a Desert Goblin (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedEnvironmentalVariants.html#dese rt-goblins). With no negative modifier on Charisma, they make potentially good leaders, and with no negative modifier, they are better in melee combat, letting the other goblins do the mounted archery.

Unlike other mobile fighters, such as the Huns or the Vikings, the Mongols were very comfortable in the art of the siege. They were very careful to recruit artisans from the cities they plundered, and along with a group of experienced Chinese engineers, they were experts in building the trebuchet and other siege machines.
You could have them recruit a squad of Kobolds to build Siege Engines (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/wildernessAndEnvironment.html#siege-engines).
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-29-07, 09:03 PM Long time lurker first time poster, whats going on everyone?

creating my first campaign (i've ran numerous one shots) and i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

They'd have to be stout and strong, and preferably something mobile. I haven't decided if i'll be using cavalry yet, but i probably will, so if they are small enough to ride horses thatd be great. i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6). Also i'm trying to stay away from using humans to make it a little bit more interesting.

Any ideas would be great!

Definitely hobgoblins. It's always easier to kill it if it has the (goblinoid) or (orc) subtype. :P

Hobgoblins have the organization to pull it off (LE), are martially oriented, and merely need a strong leader to push them in this direction. They can also be of any level to match your PCs, and have other goblinoids (goblins for small and quick, bugbears for big and strong) to supplement them. Also note that goblins use warg calvary (four mounted goblins are much more dangerous and mobile than just four goblins).
skarousis
06-29-07, 09:04 PM Its a good idea, and i could definetly use the desert goblins as allies further on down the line. But for the main mongol horde i was hoping to find something a bit more human like then goblins, and possibly bigger and stronger. hobgoblins seem decent enough, but not quite powerful enough(without classes anyways) and i really want to strike fear into my pc's. If they see something like a hobgoblin theyll probably just think "oh a hobgoblin" and even though he'd be tough, they probably wouldn't be scared.

thanks for the idea regardless, those desert goblins will probably be used further on into this.
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-29-07, 09:58 PM Its a good idea, and i could definetly use the desert goblins as allies further on down the line. But for the main mongol horde i was hoping to find something a bit more human like then goblins, and possibly bigger and stronger. hobgoblins seem decent enough, but not quite powerful enough(without classes anyways) and i really want to strike fear into my pc's. If they see something like a hobgoblin theyll probably just think "oh a hobgoblin" and even though he'd be tough, they probably wouldn't be scared.

thanks for the idea regardless, those desert goblins will probably be used further on into this.

What's not scary about a squad consisting of three half-dragon bugbear shock troopers, thirty mounted hobgoblins with halbreds, and fifty mounted goblins with crossbows?
jimpaladin
06-29-07, 10:46 PM Could you give a little more information on what you want? It seems like you want a monster race that can ride (horses?) and would be a match for 2 pcs to fight 2 to 1?

Depends on what you want but a couple of choices are ghouls and or human barbarians that attack. Gnolls are a possibility if you don't mind not riding. I also agree with a hobgoblin with level of fighter and the ride feat. You may have to "show" your players thatyour hobgoblins are bada++.

Without more information I couldn't give you a better answer.
skarousis
06-29-07, 11:02 PM Sorry for not being more clear. Basically, the original mongol horde, lead by genghis khan, consisted of 85000 troops which were ALL cavalry. So for my army i want it to consist of only one type of troop, preferably the kind that can ride and be effective on horse. And i want it to take 5 level 3's to take out just one. I'm starting to think i may have to go with a beefed up hobgoblin warrior with some mounted archery feats.
Tommyboy
06-29-07, 11:16 PM Centaurs could work with an adjustment to background. Gnolls and/or Flind Gnolls (MM3) could be made to fit. Also in MM3 are the Quaraphons, a centaur like Aberration. For a different twist, in the Draconomicon are the Dragonkin, Monsterous Humanoids that can fly. At a slightly higher level you could use Lamias (MM) they are similar to Centaurs but with a lion's body.

Also you could use exotic mounts, Bloodstriker dinosaurs, or an Ironclad Mauler for the leader, both from MM3. Granted this last option is much more than low level characters should be facing. Dragonnels are flying Dragon mounts in the Draconomicon. For somthing less exotic use Hippogriffs or Griffons.
DragonicHeritage
06-29-07, 11:39 PM How about Bugbear Fighters on Heavy warhorses? A CR of about 4, wouldn't you say?

BUGBEAR
Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Hit Dice: 3d8+3, 1d10+3(25 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (+1 Dex, +3 natural, +3 studded leather armor, +2 heavy wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Morningstar +6 melee (1d8+2) or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+2)
Full Attack: Morningstar +6 melee (1d8+2) or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9
Skills: Climb +3, Hide +4, Listen +4, Move Silently +5, Spot +4, Ride: +4
Feats: Power Attack, Alertness, Weapon Focus (morningstar)
Challenge Rating: 3
Level Adjustment: +1

Warhorse, Heavy
Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11
Attack: Hoof +6 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +4
Feats: Endurance, Run
Challenge Rating: 2

Carrying Capacity: A light load for a heavy warhorse is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. A heavy warhorse can drag 4,500 pounds.

You could also give 'em lances, and shortbows, and maybe give the horses some light armour.

Not scary enough? Don't tell the players they're bugbears, just the tribal name will do. Also focus descriptions on teeth, claws, eyes, ect. Or you could give the the fiendish template. Maybe dire tigers or something instead of horses.

Hope this helps, good luck with the campaign!
skarousis
06-30-07, 02:11 AM Thanks for the help everyone, you've really given me some great ideas, i'll check back and let you know what i decided!
Knute
07-01-07, 02:18 AM I'd ditch cavalry except for the higher ups - members of the imperial clan.

Make the majority of the horde hyena like Gnolls that worship the very highest order of the Horde. Make the lieutenants Black Gnolls - larger etc... Make the generals Golden haired Flinds - from which you can keep your 'golden horde' name if you wish. Make the royal family in cahoots with Demons or Yeenoghu himself.

There are various builds of gnolls around and they would definitely have a pack mentality to make them move light and fast.

Sigurd

You can play the flinds as deposed leaders with a degree of independence. Much like Kubla's children\heirs. Players might be able to work side deals with a flind general so long as they were diplomatic or useful.
Rulebook
07-01-07, 10:49 AM Halflings. Everybody thinks of halflings as inconcequential, but you put em on horseback and they get pretty wily. Halfling Outrider and Wild Plains outrider classes mesh well and fit flavor.

they're nomadic by nature
they're fearless of larger things

all it would take is a small push to make them angry, then once they've beaten whatever it is down, they'll have some bloodlust left, and bingo, nomadic horsemen with a ranged mentality!
skarousis
07-07-07, 05:34 PM Ok let me know if you guys think 4-6 level 3 adventurers could take this guy on.

STR:18 HP:70
DEX:16 Init: +3
CON:18
INT:12
WIS:14
CHA:10

AC: 18 (+5 Breastplate, +3 Dex)
Saves:
FORT: 9
REF: 5
WILL: 4

Base attack +5

Weapons: to hit dmg crit
Masterwork Greatclub +11 1d10+7 x2
longbow +8 1d8 x3

Feats:
Far shot
Mounted Archery
Rapid Shot
Power Attack
Weapon focus (great club)
Weapon Specialization (great Club)

The first time they fight he will not be on horseback and probably won't be far enough away to utilize his bow, so he'll be using his club.
Tolby
07-07-07, 07:04 PM Khaasta's very cool stuff.
Jaxgaret
07-07-07, 07:30 PM i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6).

Either you're trying to recreate the Mongols, or you're not. Pick one and go with it. As it is, you have two contrary themes running here.

Mongols were not supermen, they were normal humans.
AMGriffin
07-07-07, 07:54 PM Ever thought of wild elves? They're nomadic and have good dexterity AND automatic bow proficiency. They can fit into the role of mongol pretty easily I'd think.

Hobgoblins aren't a bad choice either.
skarousis
07-08-07, 02:50 AM Either you're trying to recreate the Mongols, or you're not. Pick one and go with it. As it is, you have two contrary themes running here.

Mongols were not supermen, they were normal humans.

i'm well aware, i'm just using them as a starting point, no need to get a tude about it.
Jaxgaret
07-08-07, 03:20 AM i'm well aware, i'm just using them as a starting point, no need to get a tude about it.

My 'tude has nothing to do with it.

Trying to create a fantasy army based upon myths about super-Mongols, and trying to re-create an actual Mongol horde are mutually exclusive endeavors.

If the former, the aforementioned Bugbear suggestion could work, or another monster race more to your liking.

If the latter, use Humans with class levels to represent their level of power and training.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skarousis 06-29-07, 07:56 PM	Long time lurker first time poster, whats going on everyone? creating my first campaign (i've ran numerous one shots) and i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire They'd have to be stout and strong, and preferably something mobile. I haven't decided if i'll be using cavalry yet, but i probably will, so if they are small enough to ride horses thatd be great. i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6). Also i'm trying to stay away from using humans to make it a little bit more interesting. Any ideas would be great!
Orchomenos 06-29-07, 08:54 PM	Probably not very original, but I suggest to go with an amalgame of goblinoids, kobolds & orcs, leaded by Desert Goblins (from Unearthed Arcana). With their +4 racial bonus on Ride checks, goblins make wonderful cavaliers. Part of their success was due to alliances made with Turkic and other Asian nomads. You could have a specific tribe of goblins who made alliance with neighboring hobgoblins, bugbears and/or orc. Genghis Khan, through political manipulation and military might, united the nomadic, previously ever-rivaling Mongol-Turkic tribes under his rule by 1206. Goblins have -2 to charisma. Your "Gengis Khan" could be a Desert Goblin (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedEnvironmentalVariants.html#dese rt-goblins). With no negative modifier on Charisma, they make potentially good leaders, and with no negative modifier, they are better in melee combat, letting the other goblins do the mounted archery. Unlike other mobile fighters, such as the Huns or the Vikings, the Mongols were very comfortable in the art of the siege. They were very careful to recruit artisans from the cities they plundered, and along with a group of experienced Chinese engineers, they were experts in building the trebuchet and other siege machines. You could have them recruit a squad of Kobolds to build Siege Engines (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/wildernessAndEnvironment.html#siege-engines).
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-29-07, 09:03 PM	Long time lurker first time poster, whats going on everyone? creating my first campaign (i've ran numerous one shots) and i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire They'd have to be stout and strong, and preferably something mobile. I haven't decided if i'll be using cavalry yet, but i probably will, so if they are small enough to ride horses thatd be great. i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6). Also i'm trying to stay away from using humans to make it a little bit more interesting. Any ideas would be great! Definitely hobgoblins. It's always easier to kill it if it has the (goblinoid) or (orc) subtype. :P Hobgoblins have the organization to pull it off (LE), are martially oriented, and merely need a strong leader to push them in this direction. They can also be of any level to match your PCs, and have other goblinoids (goblins for small and quick, bugbears for big and strong) to supplement them. Also note that goblins use warg calvary (four mounted goblins are much more dangerous and mobile than just four goblins).
skarousis 06-29-07, 09:04 PM	Its a good idea, and i could definetly use the desert goblins as allies further on down the line. But for the main mongol horde i was hoping to find something a bit more human like then goblins, and possibly bigger and stronger. hobgoblins seem decent enough, but not quite powerful enough(without classes anyways) and i really want to strike fear into my pc's. If they see something like a hobgoblin theyll probably just think "oh a hobgoblin" and even though he'd be tough, they probably wouldn't be scared. thanks for the idea regardless, those desert goblins will probably be used further on into this.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-29-07, 09:58 PM	Its a good idea, and i could definetly use the desert goblins as allies further on down the line. But for the main mongol horde i was hoping to find something a bit more human like then goblins, and possibly bigger and stronger. hobgoblins seem decent enough, but not quite powerful enough(without classes anyways) and i really want to strike fear into my pc's. If they see something like a hobgoblin theyll probably just think "oh a hobgoblin" and even though he'd be tough, they probably wouldn't be scared. thanks for the idea regardless, those desert goblins will probably be used further on into this. What's not scary about a squad consisting of three half-dragon bugbear shock troopers, thirty mounted hobgoblins with halbreds, and fifty mounted goblins with crossbows?
jimpaladin 06-29-07, 10:46 PM	Could you give a little more information on what you want? It seems like you want a monster race that can ride (horses?) and would be a match for 2 pcs to fight 2 to 1? Depends on what you want but a couple of choices are ghouls and or human barbarians that attack. Gnolls are a possibility if you don't mind not riding. I also agree with a hobgoblin with level of fighter and the ride feat. You may have to "show" your players thatyour hobgoblins are bada++. Without more information I couldn't give you a better answer.
skarousis 06-29-07, 11:02 PM	Sorry for not being more clear. Basically, the original mongol horde, lead by genghis khan, consisted of 85000 troops which were ALL cavalry. So for my army i want it to consist of only one type of troop, preferably the kind that can ride and be effective on horse. And i want it to take 5 level 3's to take out just one. I'm starting to think i may have to go with a beefed up hobgoblin warrior with some mounted archery feats.
Tommyboy 06-29-07, 11:16 PM	Centaurs could work with an adjustment to background. Gnolls and/or Flind Gnolls (MM3) could be made to fit. Also in MM3 are the Quaraphons, a centaur like Aberration. For a different twist, in the Draconomicon are the Dragonkin, Monsterous Humanoids that can fly. At a slightly higher level you could use Lamias (MM) they are similar to Centaurs but with a lion's body. Also you could use exotic mounts, Bloodstriker dinosaurs, or an Ironclad Mauler for the leader, both from MM3. Granted this last option is much more than low level characters should be facing. Dragonnels are flying Dragon mounts in the Draconomicon. For somthing less exotic use Hippogriffs or Griffons.
DragonicHeritage 06-29-07, 11:39 PM	How about Bugbear Fighters on Heavy warhorses? A CR of about 4, wouldn't you say? BUGBEAR Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid) Hit Dice: 3d8+3, 1d10+3(25 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 19 (+1 Dex, +3 natural, +3 studded leather armor, +2 heavy wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 18 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5 Attack: Morningstar +6 melee (1d8+2) or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+2) Full Attack: Morningstar +6 melee (1d8+2) or javelin +4 ranged (1d6+2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1 Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9 Skills: Climb +3, Hide +4, Listen +4, Move Silently +5, Spot +4, Ride: +4 Feats: Power Attack, Alertness, Weapon Focus (morningstar) Challenge Rating: 3 Level Adjustment: +1 Warhorse, Heavy Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11 Attack: Hoof +6 melee (1d6+4) Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6 Skills: Listen +5, Spot +4 Feats: Endurance, Run Challenge Rating: 2 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a heavy warhorse is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. A heavy warhorse can drag 4,500 pounds. You could also give 'em lances, and shortbows, and maybe give the horses some light armour. Not scary enough? Don't tell the players they're bugbears, just the tribal name will do. Also focus descriptions on teeth, claws, eyes, ect. Or you could give the the fiendish template. Maybe dire tigers or something instead of horses. Hope this helps, good luck with the campaign!
skarousis 06-30-07, 02:11 AM	Thanks for the help everyone, you've really given me some great ideas, i'll check back and let you know what i decided!
Knute 07-01-07, 02:18 AM	I'd ditch cavalry except for the higher ups - members of the imperial clan. Make the majority of the horde hyena like Gnolls that worship the very highest order of the Horde. Make the lieutenants Black Gnolls - larger etc... Make the generals Golden haired Flinds - from which you can keep your 'golden horde' name if you wish. Make the royal family in cahoots with Demons or Yeenoghu himself. There are various builds of gnolls around and they would definitely have a pack mentality to make them move light and fast. Sigurd You can play the flinds as deposed leaders with a degree of independence. Much like Kubla's children\heirs. Players might be able to work side deals with a flind general so long as they were diplomatic or useful.
Rulebook 07-01-07, 10:49 AM	Halflings. Everybody thinks of halflings as inconcequential, but you put em on horseback and they get pretty wily. Halfling Outrider and Wild Plains outrider classes mesh well and fit flavor. they're nomadic by nature they're fearless of larger things all it would take is a small push to make them angry, then once they've beaten whatever it is down, they'll have some bloodlust left, and bingo, nomadic horsemen with a ranged mentality!
skarousis 07-07-07, 05:34 PM	Ok let me know if you guys think 4-6 level 3 adventurers could take this guy on. STR:18 HP:70 DEX:16 Init: +3 CON:18 INT:12 WIS:14 CHA:10 AC: 18 (+5 Breastplate, +3 Dex) Saves: FORT: 9 REF: 5 WILL: 4 Base attack +5 Weapons: to hit dmg crit Masterwork Greatclub +11 1d10+7 x2 longbow +8 1d8 x3 Feats: Far shot Mounted Archery Rapid Shot Power Attack Weapon focus (great club) Weapon Specialization (great Club) The first time they fight he will not be on horseback and probably won't be far enough away to utilize his bow, so he'll be using his club.
Tolby 07-07-07, 07:04 PM	Khaasta's very cool stuff.
Jaxgaret 07-07-07, 07:30 PM	i'm looking for a race that could be used very similar to the mongols of the 1200's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire i'll be starting my pc's out at 3rd level, and i want them to be able to just barely kill one of these guys by themselves without dying (group of 5-6). Either you're trying to recreate the Mongols, or you're not. Pick one and go with it. As it is, you have two contrary themes running here. Mongols were not supermen, they were normal humans.
AMGriffin 07-07-07, 07:54 PM	Ever thought of wild elves? They're nomadic and have good dexterity AND automatic bow proficiency. They can fit into the role of mongol pretty easily I'd think. Hobgoblins aren't a bad choice either.
skarousis 07-08-07, 02:50 AM	Either you're trying to recreate the Mongols, or you're not. Pick one and go with it. As it is, you have two contrary themes running here. Mongols were not supermen, they were normal humans. i'm well aware, i'm just using them as a starting point, no need to get a tude about it.
Jaxgaret 07-08-07, 03:20 AM	i'm well aware, i'm just using them as a starting point, no need to get a tude about it. My 'tude has nothing to do with it. Trying to create a fantasy army based upon myths about super-Mongols, and trying to re-create an actual Mongol horde are mutually exclusive endeavors. If the former, the aforementioned Bugbear suggestion could work, or another monster race more to your liking. If the latter, use Humans with class levels to represent their level of power and training.