Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 01-09-07, 09:32 AM	Lycan Spawn They are the not so distant relatives of the lycanthropes; and maybe even the go-between from lycanthropy and shifters. The only "known" way of them to be produced is a cross bread between a shifter and a natural or inflicted lycanthropy. The children are the same race as the lycanthropy’s race, and have an alternate forms relating to the shifter parent. Anyway that doesn’t change the fact that they are here, and showing up more often as time goes on. Despite the known way of breeding a lycan spawn there are rumors that a transmutation specialist mage or mages are currently producing them as a part of some experiment. They appear and act a great deal like their famous and vastly more powerful ancestral lycanthropes. The lycan spawn are very well known of by people, and are viewed as lycanthropes to most (or even worse); due to this almost everyone knows their weakness. They are commonly killed on site (if seen or left alone) even though they are not contagious like lycanthropy, and are not necessarily evil like their lycanthropy counter parts might be, but are seen as an diseased abomination that need to be put out of their misery. The same hatred continues into battles, if they are spotted they are usually targeted due to the fear of getting infected with lycanthropy. If spotted by people who hunt Lycanthropy, they will probably track them down and kill them at their leisure. Even if the lycan spawn can convince people that they are not evil, he still will find it hard to buy any equipment or supplies, and will generally be blamed for anything that goes wrong in the town. However this may be avoided if they remain in humanoid form while in towns; however roomers or a nemesis may alert the public of their true form, especially if they were discovered in another city already. In the end though they are mostly hated due to them being the result of the lycanthropy plague and are seen as a threat to everyone to come (a.k.a. Bad Genetics, a classic monster). Sub Type: The lycan spawn inherited template can be added to any humanoid or giant that does not already have the shape shifter subtype. The lycan spawn gains the shape shifter subtype. Also see Lycan Blood for special restrictions. Alignment: Any, but usually leaning more towards their full lycanthropic versions. Lycan spawn are not genetically, and even less so socially, driven to be a specific alignment Abilities: -4 to intelligence +2 racial bonus to Survival skill. +2 racial bonus to Handle Animals skill with animals of same type. Base Speed: As base race. (see below). Low Light Vision: Lycan Spawn gains Low Light Vision, in hybrid and animal form only, if the base race did not already have Low Light Vision. Low Light Vision allows them to see twice as far into darkness as a human normally could. Lycan Blood: Lycan spawn qualify as lycanthropy when under it is an effect of spells and weapon qualities. A lycan spawn may purchase Improved Natural Armor feat without meeting the prerequisites, but the benefit only applies to animal and hybrid form. Control Shape is always considered a class skill. At 6 HD they qualify as a shape shifter, or having alternate form ability for prestige classes (such as war shaper) and similar feats not directly requiring lycanthropy. When a lycan spawn reaches 9 hit die they may purchase Scent as a feat. Immunities: As base race, plus a lycan spawn are immune to lycanthropy of all types. Aura of Disease (Ex): Lycan spawn are a product of a mystical disease intertwining into their heritage. For some reason this has produced a natural aura of unease with humanoids of the same type and suffer a -4 to all reaction and all diplomacy checks. If the fact that the lycan spawn is discovered as being what they are, by ether being seen changing forms or seen in their hybrid form the penalty is increased to -10. Lycan spawn do not have a weaker force of personality, social skills, or just generally physically attractive; people of their own race just feel a little un-eased around them. Silver Vulnerability (Ex): Due to the lingering curse of lycanthropy in their blood, lycan spawn suffer a negative reaction to the presence of silver. A lycan spawn who carries a silver item (such as weapons or coins) is sickened (-2 penalty to attack and weapon damage rolls, saving throws, and skill and ability checks) until that item is dropped. A lycan spawn who is struck by a silver weapon suffers 2 additional points of damage and is dazzled (-1 to attack rolls, and Search and Spot checks) for 1 round as it burns their flesh on contact. If being struck forces a lycan spawn to make a Concentration check, the damage dealt by a silver weapon counts double. Alternate Form (Su): Lycan Spawn can shape shift very similarly to lycanthropy. They have also inherited the ability to take on a form of both a hybrid and animal. Lycan spawn can shape shift between their Human, Hybrid, and Animal from as a full round action. They may not take any other actions while transforming but are not defenseless, do not provoke an attack of opportunity, and retain their full armor class. Unfortunately, a lycan spawn must grow into this ability as well as others. At 1 HD they may take on an alternate form for 3 + their new forms con modifier in rounds. At 5 HD they may take on an alternate form for 2 + their new forms con modifier in minutes. At 9 HD they may take on any form indefinitely. The rounds/minutes they have in their alternate form do no need to be used up all at once. They may split the duration of time between their animal and hybrid form. The time spent changing forms does not take up the time you have in your alternate forms. Once time runs out, or you chose to willingly change back to human form you are fatigued for 5 minutes. The amount of uses is determined by the form they wish to take stated below. Changing from hybrid or animal forms to human form is tiring and taxing on their body. If they were in combat while in their current form they must be wary of changing forms. If they were not magically healed or had at least 4 hours of sleep, after taking on the new form they must make a DC 20 Constitution check, using their new forms constitution, or be knocked unconscious. They suffer non lethal damage that drops them to -5 hit points. *In hybrid form, the lycan retains its gear, its abilities scores, and class features. It can speak and cast spells as normal. The lycan with a feat can buy natural claw attacks (1d4 for Medium, 1d3 for small). With the expenditure of that feat, a lycan spawn may attack with two claws at full base attack bonus and strength. This does not increase in attacks with a higher base attack bonus. If the lycan fights with a weapon, it can make a secondary attack with the claw (at -5, add only ½ Strength bonus) as part of a full attack action. A lycan spawn may take on this form as many times as they want, but can not if they have changed forms in less than 5 minutes or is fatigued. In situations where a lycan spawn humanoid and animal type are of different environments, such as a lycan spawn shark/human, they hybrid form would be amphibious and will be able to breathe air and water. *In animal form, the lycan cannot speak, but retains understanding of all languages it knows. However it loses its ability to uses normal equipment not specifically designed for the new form. While changing to this form, a lycan spawn, not being as tied to their magical nature as normal lycanthropy, must worry about their own personal gear due to their change in shape and possibly size. Most items that are designed for the use by a humanoid form, that are worn, fall off and items such as weapons that are held are dropped. The same effect applies to items designed for your animal form. The one exception to these rules are amulets, which have extended chains for larger creatures, and must not require any activation for use. The lycan gains the following traits based on the animal chosen at character creation: Movement’s base speed and type in place of their own, feats, special qualities, skill bonuses, and natural attacks. Unlike the hybrid form and normal lycanthropy they may only take on this form 1/day and gain an additional use per every 4 hit die they posses. When they reach 16HD the use is at will; the duration is as previously stated. *Ability Modifiers: A lycan spawn in hybrid or animal form gains ONE ability increase to strength, or dexterity, or constitution. The stats that can be increased are limited by the lycanthropy equivalent bonuses. If constitution is chosen it applies to all forms. *Stats per Lycanthropy List Bat (dire): +2 Str, or +2 Dex, or +2 Con Bear: +2 Str or +2 Con Boar: +2 Str or +2 Con Rat: (dire): +2 Dex Tiger: +2 Str, or +2 Dex, or +2 Con Wolf: +2 Dex or +2 Con *Other Types of Lycan Spawn: A Lycan Spawn can not have a base animal that is more than one size category smaller or larger than their humanoid race and other lycanthropes must have a Str, Dex, or Con stat of 14+ to be viable to be increased. Example: A Medium Shark has Str 13, Dex 15, and Con 13. A Lycan Spawn Shark can only have a +2 Dex as one of it's possibilities. A Cheetah though has Str 16, Dex 19, and Con 15. Thus A Lycan Spawn Cheetah can have +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con as one of it's possible increased stats. Languages: As base race. Favorite Class: As base race, but seem to lean toward barbarian, ranger, or druid. Some dire versions of lycan spawn like to pick up scourer as due to their draconic or abyssal nature. LA: Effectively +0 LA template. New Feat Lycan Form Mastery Prerequisites: Lycanthropy or a Lycan Spawn With this feat lycan spawn now gains a greater mastery of they shape shifting ability. They now have an extended ability to expand on the control shape skill. The skill Control shape is now a more useful skill for all lycanthropy. They can use this skill to aid them with shape shifting acts they would not be able to do other wise. The key ability is to quicken their shape shifting ability; this does stack with other abilities that reduce your shape shifting ability. So if it is already reduced to a move action then it is considered "part" of the move action at the same Difficulty Check. All of the following effects act as 1/day plus an additional use per day per 3 hit die obtained. When applicable, all effects lasts your constitution modifier in rounds. When a higher DC is made the duration is extended by +1 round per 10 DC met over actual DC, Example: Shape shifting claws from your animal form to your hybrid form has a DC of 20, a DC of 37 is made, this is a DC 17 over DC 20, so the duration is automatically extended by an additional +1 more round. *Quicken Shape Shifting ability to only one full round action DC 15 *Shape Shifting the claws from your animal to you hybrid form DC 20 *Shape Shifting the bite from your animal form DC 25 *Increasing your speed of your Hybrid form by +5ft (Your animal form must be faster than your hybrid form) DC 25 *Inflicted taking on the hybrid form even though they failed their involuntary transformation DC 10; minimum of 1 round with DC 10. Special Thanks to okaynowa AZNsupermarket
Spikes01k 01-11-07, 05:54 PM	New Feats: Size Manipulation Requirements: alternate form, Int 12, and Shape Shifter sub type A shape shifter that takes this feat can temporarily alter one specific alternate form so that their body is one size category Smaller than normal but still for the most part act like it is it’s original size. Their actual height, length, and weight are at the limits of the size category smaller than them. They receive a -2 to strength and also gain all the benefits of being smaller but none of the negatives. This means they can use equipment for both sizes with no problems. The one draw back is that the natural weapon's size does decrease in size and damage. The shape shifter can retain this form so long as they make a control shape check at DC 26 every 1 minute, using the new forms constitution modifier of that form while in stressful situations. If not in a combat or other equally stressful situation, this effect could be maintained indefinitely, even while sleeping. Simply keep track of the time till each combat round equals a minute then make the control shape check. The lycanthropy may only make as many con checks as they have con modifiers of the form they are in. After-words they become exhausted. This ability does not stack with monkey grip, powerful build, or other similar abilities. Feral Blooded Requirments: Lycan Spawn, Wis 14 Lycan Spawn who obtain this feat can now take on their animal form one additional time per 24 hours. Call to Nature Requirements: Lycan Spawn and Lycanthropy With this feat control shape is a class skill. You only need to pay one skill point for control shape skill ranks. Skill Points paid before this feat was chosen are recalculated was if you started with this feat, and are immediately be spent in control shape. If by some way this causes excess skill point, these are immediately spent elsewhere. Inflicted lycanthropy and Lycan Spawn gain a +1 on control shape checks.
Spikes01k 01-15-07, 07:44 AM	:dragon:
Spikes01k 01-19-07, 01:05 PM	:dragon:
Spikes01k 01-19-07, 02:35 PM	Oops sorry. didn't mean to post.
Spikes01k 01-30-07, 10:20 PM	:dragon:
Spikes01k 02-14-07, 11:06 AM	:dragon: Still looking for sugetions
Spikes01k 02-28-07, 09:25 PM	Well it has been over two weeks. An comments would be nice.
Spikes01k 03-15-07, 10:56 PM	.... could use a second chance.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-16-07, 10:10 AM	I think I've commented on this before. "Roleplaying penalties" like Bad Reputation really don't work very well. They're essentially useless as a balancing factor, which means they're just an added annoyance to deal with. It's far better to let a "bad reputation" play out naturally rather than trying to create special mechanics for it. Allergy to Silver: The problem here is that a 1-point hit suddenly becomes 6 points, which is a rather large jump. Likewise, I'm not sure where the energy vulnerability comes from. Lycanthropes don't have it. If you're concerned about DR/Silver issues (or trying to mimic those) I'd suggest dropping those two traits and giving them a feat which allows them to gain DR/Silver, 1 point per 3 or 4 HD. (So a level 8 one would have DR 2/Silver.) Control Shape is a skill for infected lycanthropes. Natural lycanthropes don't have or need it. It really seems to me that the "you can do this with Control Shape" things would be better rendered as feats and drop Control Shape from the writeup entirely.
Spikes01k 03-16-07, 11:53 AM	I think I've commented on this before. "Roleplaying penalties" like Bad Reputation really don't work very well. They're essentially useless as a balancing factor, which means they're just an added annoyance to deal with. It's far better to let a "bad reputation" play out naturally rather than trying to create special mechanics for it. This factor is no longer a balancing factor in it's creation. I simply put it in there as a logical RP conclution. Allergy to Silver: The problem here is that a 1-point hit suddenly becomes 6 points, which is a rather large jump. Likewise, I'm not sure where the energy vulnerability comes from. Lycanthropes don't have it. If you're concerned about DR/Silver issues (or trying to mimic those) I'd suggest dropping those two traits and giving them a feat which allows them to gain DR/Silver, 1 point per 3 or 4 HD. (So a level 8 one would have DR 2/Silver.) If you read the DMG, DR can be surpassed by magical energy just as Silver can. Having something simular to this keeps the game play the same as well as a good balancing factor. Control Shape is a skill for infected lycanthropes. Natural lycanthropes don't have or need it. It really seems to me that the "you can do this with Control Shape" things would be better rendered as feats and drop Control Shape from the writeup entirely. They require control shape to keep from changing uncontroled. ALTHOUGH you may have a point on making these extra options part of a feat as a balancing factor.
okaynowa 03-16-07, 12:28 PM	The write-up could do with a little reformatting to make the rules clearer-- cutting and pasting from existing races and templates might help a little bit there. Doing so keeps everybody on the same page, and makes the real differences (unique special qualities, variant abilities) easier to spot. For example:Type: The lycan spawn inherited template can be added to any humanoid or giant that does not already have the shapechanger subtype. The lycan spawn gains the shapechanger subtype. Size: As the base race. Abilities: As the base race, and -2 Intelligence. Speed: As base race. Low-light vision: The lycan spawn gains low-light vision, if the base race did not already have it. Alternate Form (Su): As a standard action once per day, the lycan spawn can assume the form of a specific animal or the form of an animal-human hybrid. The lycan can remain in this form indefinitely; reverting to human form is a standard action it can perform at will. In animal form, a lycan spawn’s gear melds with its body and becomes non-functional. The lycan cannot speak, but retains understanding of all languages it knows. The lycan gains the following traits based on the animal chosen at character creation: [Table here of animal choices, their sizes, speeds, natural armor, attacks, ability modifiers or scores] In hybrid form, the lycan retains its gear, its abilities scores, and class features. It can speak and cast spells as normal. The lycan gains a claw attack (1d4 for Medium, 1d3 for small) which it can use as a primary attack with its full Strength bonus. If the lycan fights with a weapon, it can make a secondary attack with the claw (at -5, add only ½ Strength bonus) as part of a full attack action. At every 4th level, a lycan spawn gains an additional use per day of its Alternate Form ability. Curse of the Moon (Su): Triggers for involuntary change, etc Lycanthropy Immunity (Ex): Lycan spawn are immune to the curse spread by a lycanthrope’s bite. Favored class: As base race. Languages: As base race.I'm very leery of attempts to balance a race by imposing glass jaws. The silver vulnerability and energy sensitivity aren't limitations on power-- they're threats to a character's survivability. The bad reputation quality has more to do with the setting than any inherent quality of the race-- and if the party spends all its time dungeoncrawling, it won't matter anyway. If you want to counterbalance the powers of the Alternate Form quality, place limitations on the quality itself. You've already got uses per day. How about: Extended transformation. Instead of using Alternate Form as a standard action, how about a 1 round action? Or 1 minute? Increasing the time it takes to change makes this an ability character will be loathe to use in the middle of combat. Tiring transformation. Perhaps shifting out of the animal form leaves the character fatigued. Such a limit means the character can't casually shift back to human or hybrid form to start using gear and spells again. Once they've gone animal, they'll want to stay that way until the threat is gone and they can recuperate. Window of Opportunity. Maybe the transformation can only be performed under the open sky, or while the character is not in sunlight. Such limitations force the character to pay attention to when and where they shift. ("If I exit the dungeon now, I'll be stuck mute as a bear until the sun goes down...") It might also be worth your while to be more explicit about the benefits of the animal form-- not just ability modifiers, but speeds, natural armor, attacks, and so forth. Go ahead and reprint info from the SRD-- seeing it next to the rest of the lycan spawn's qualities can only help keep things in perspective. (Do you really want a character with a dire rat's AC 15 taking extra damage from tossed coins?)
Spikes01k 03-16-07, 12:58 PM	The write-up could do with a little reformatting to make the rules clearer-- cutting and pasting from existing races and templates might help a little bit there. Doing so keeps everybody on the same page, and makes the real differences (unique special qualities, variant abilities) easier to spot. For example:Type: The lycan spawn inherited template can be added to any humanoid or giant that does not already have the shapechanger subtype. The lycan spawn gains the shapechanger subtype. Size: As the base race. Abilities: As the base race, and -2 Intelligence. Speed: As base race. Low-light vision: The lycan spawn gains low-light vision, if the base race did not already have it. Alternate Form (Su): As a standard action once per day, the lycan spawn can assume the form of a specific animal or the form of an animal-human hybrid. The lycan can remain in this form indefinitely; reverting to human form is a standard action it can perform at will. In animal form, a lycan spawn’s gear melds with its body and becomes non-functional. The lycan cannot speak, but retains understanding of all languages it knows. The lycan gains the following traits based on the animal chosen at character creation: [Table here of animal choices, their sizes, speeds, natural armor, attacks, ability modifiers or scores] In hybrid form, the lycan retains its gear, its abilities scores, and class features. It can speak and cast spells as normal. The lycan gains a claw attack (1d4 for Medium, 1d3 for small) which it can use as a primary attack with its full Strength bonus. If the lycan fights with a weapon, it can make a secondary attack with the claw (at -5, add only ½ Strength bonus) as part of a full attack action. At every 4th level, a lycan spawn gains an additional use per day of its Alternate Form ability. Curse of the Moon (Su): Triggers for involuntary change, etc Lycanthropy Immunity (Ex): Lycan spawn are immune to the curse spread by a lycanthrope’s bite. Favored class: As base race. Languages: As base race.I'm very leery of attempts to balance a race by imposing glass jaws. The silver vulnerability and energy sensitivity aren't limitations on power-- they're threats to a character's survivability. The bad reputation quality has more to do with the setting than any inherent quality of the race-- and if the party spends all its time dungeoncrawling, it won't matter anyway. If you want to counterbalance the powers of the Alternate Form quality, place limitations on the quality itself. You've already got uses per day. How about: Extended transformation. Instead of using Alternate Form as a standard action, how about a 1 round action? Or 1 minute? Increasing the time it takes to change makes this an ability character will be loathe to use in the middle of combat. Tiring transformation. Perhaps shifting out of the animal form leaves the character fatigued. Such a limit means the character can't casually shift back to human or hybrid form to start using gear and spells again. Once they've gone animal, they'll want to stay that way until the threat is gone and they can recuperate. Window of Opportunity. Maybe the transformation can only be performed under the open sky, or while the character is not in sunlight. Such limitations force the character to pay attention to when and where they shift. ("If I exit the dungeon now, I'll be stuck mute as a bear until the sun goes down...") It might also be worth your while to be more explicit about the benefits of the animal form-- not just ability modifiers, but speeds, natural armor, attacks, and so forth. Go ahead and reprint info from the SRD-- seeing it next to the rest of the lycan spawn's qualities can only help keep things in perspective. (Do you really want a character with a dire rat's AC 15 taking extra damage from tossed coins?) Wow thanks! That is a lot of good advice. I'll look at incorperating it. The bad reputation though, as I have stated befor, is an RP point, not a balancing factor. THANK YOU very much.
okaynowa 03-16-07, 01:06 PM	The bad reputation though, as I have stated before, is an RP point, not a balancing factor.In that case, it should be discussed in the flavor part of the racial description, not bulleted as a racial quality. After all, even the Forgotten Realms drow don't have "universally distrusted and loathed" listed with their "Drow as characters" stats.
Spikes01k 03-16-07, 01:11 PM	In that case, it should be discussed in the flavor part of the racial description, not bulleted as a racial quality. After all, even the Forgotten Realms drow don't have "universally distrusted and loathed" listed with their "Drow as characters" stats. Ok will do. Thanks
Spikes01k 03-16-07, 04:31 PM	So what do you think of this set up. I am calling it v.4
okaynowa 03-16-07, 06:28 PM	Lesser Low Light Vision: Lycan Spawn gains Less Low Light Vision if the base race did not already have Low Light Vision. Lesser Low Light Vision allows them to see only a half further into the darkness as a human could.Simpler is usually better, because it's less work for the DM and the player both. If the lycan spawn have low-light vision, it's easier just to give them regular low-light vision. It's a benefit, but not a tremendous one, and not something to be distracted by. If you have to limit it, consider making low-light vision part of the lycan's animal and/or hybrid form.Lycan Blood: A lycan spawn may purchase Improved Natural Armor feat without meeting the prerequisites, but >the benefit< only applies to animal and hybrid form. When a lycan spawn reaches 9 hit die they >may< purchase Scent as a feat.This quality is fine because it allows the player has to gain powers, but at the cost of a limited resource.Bad Reputation: If discovered to be a lycan spawn they suffer a -10 penalty to reactions and diplomacy checks. Where races like Drow are disliked and hated, a lycan spawn are despised and always though of as a threat which can not be negotiated with.If this penalty is the result of the way the rest of society thinks, it's not something coming from the character himself, and shouldn't be a lycan spawn attribute. Conversely, if it's an inherently anti-social aura that the lycan spawn generates by its very nature, how do they ever get enough friends to go adventuring with? The lycan spawn can certainly be treated this way if that's part of the campaign setting's attitude, but that's a quality of the setting, not the race itself (or at least, it shouldn't be).Natural Skill Bonuses: +2 Survival skill. +2 Handle Animals skill with animals of same type.These bonuses should be noted as "+2 racial bonus to X." Allergy to Silver: +1D4+1 to damage by all silver weapons. A lycan spawn will also never use a silver item due to the fact of fear or just plane pain from touching something silver. They will also avoid carrying any item composed of silver, including coinage. Touching silver causes 1d3 points of damage per turn, and is accompanied with a hissing sound. If the item is covered in thick cloth this is reduced to non lethal damage. Count damage as 3 times the normal amount for determining concentration checks. Silver Coins tossed at a lycan spawn deal 1d3 damage per 10 pieces of silver tossed at once.Having to suffer additional damage is bad because it kills characters faster. It's a liability for the character, and the party that depends on that character's aid. Giving a lycan all sorts of neat abilities and then pounding on them extra hard just for having them doesn't sound fair. Now, silver counting triple for Concentration skill checks to avoid disruption is neat. The actual hit point damage isn't greater, but it's unusually disruptive for a lycan spellcaster. That's a situational thing, something the lycan can try to avoid (by not spellcasting or trying to Concentrate when silver's around) or meet head on (max out Con ranks and try to suck it up). That's getting close to a good mitigating quality.Languages: No more than one automatic language, base language only. Treat other automatic languages as part of the bonus languages.Simple is usually better. "As base race," or "Common, with X, Y, and Z as bonus options," is more direct. Alternate Form (Su)I highly recommend a review of the Alternate Form ability in the SRD (which should incorporate the post-polymorph errata) for ideas on how to word it, and the rules on gear. Shredding gear is complicated (it should get absorbed, or fall off). Being fatigued for a variable period of time is complicated (it should be a fixed period of time). Having to keep track of how much time has elapsed since the last combat is complicated (fatigue should either kick in every time for assuming a particular form, or never). Giving the player a choice of ability score bonuses is complicated and paves the way to min-maxing (the bonuses should be fixed for each animal). Control ShapeThis skill is a complication meant for involuntary werecreatures. A lycan player character should be able to change shape without having to make a die roll. If it must have a die roll, consider the Concentration skill, and the transformation as something that can be disrupted. That would dovetail nicely with the silver sensitivity trait mentioned earlier. It bears repeating: simpler is better. Think of how you can trim down the lycan spawn-as-characters rules by using or referring to existing mechanics. Think of how much time you want a player or the DM to spend adjudicating this or that lycan's quality when their turn comes up in the initiative order.
Spikes01k 03-17-07, 03:06 AM	Simpler is usually better, because it's less work for the DM and the player both. If the lycan spawn have low-light vision, it's easier just to give them regular low-light vision. It's a benefit, but not a tremendous one, and not something to be distracted by. If you have to limit it, consider making low-light vision part of the lycan's animal and/or hybrid form. Very good sugestion, I'll take it This quality is fine because it allows the player has to gain powers, but at the cost of a limited resource.If this penalty is the result of the way the rest of society thinks, it's not something coming from the character himself, and shouldn't be a lycan spawn attribute. Thanks for the editing, that is what I ment it to say. Conversely, if it's an inherently anti-social aura that the lycan spawn generates by its very nature, how do they ever get enough friends to go adventuring with? The lycan spawn can certainly be treated this way if that's part of the campaign setting's attitude, but that's a quality of the setting, not the race itself (or at least, it shouldn't be). Ok, what do you think of this write up? These bonuses should be noted as "+2 racial bonus to X." Shoot, thanks again, thought I caught that! Having to suffer additional damage is bad because it kills characters faster. It's a liability for the character, and the party that depends on that character's aid. Giving a lycan all sorts of neat abilities and then pounding on them extra hard just for having them doesn't sound fair. Now, silver counting triple for Concentration skill checks to avoid disruption is neat. The actual hit point damage isn't greater, but it's unusually disruptive for a lycan spellcaster. That's a situational thing, something the lycan can try to avoid (by not spellcasting or trying to Concentrate when silver's around) or meet head on (max out Con ranks and try to suck it up). That's getting close to a good mitigating quality. Ack sorry, but the damage has to remain. I reduced it a bit. So they will need to work hard to keep their nature a secret for a few levels, but after a while this will become a mood point damage wise in the higher levels. Simple is usually better. "As base race," or "Common, with X, Y, and Z as bonus options," is more direct. I highly recommend a review of the Alternate Form ability in the SRD (which should incorporate the post-polymorph errata) for ideas on how to word it, and the rules on gear. Shredding gear is complicated (it should get absorbed, or fall off). Being fatigued for a variable period of time is complicated (it should be a fixed period of time). Having to keep track of how much time has elapsed since the last combat is complicated (fatigue should either kick in every time for assuming a particular form, or never). Giving the player a choice of ability score bonuses is complicated and paves the way to min-maxing (the bonuses should be fixed for each animal). Ok Points taken, I think you'll like the changes with these. This skill is a complication meant for involuntary werecreatures. A lycan player character should be able to change shape without having to make a die roll. If it must have a die roll, consider the Concentration skill, and the transformation as something that can be disrupted. That would dovetail nicely with the silver sensitivity trait mentioned earlier. If you note that they also involantarally control. However I felt that their ability to change forms was greater than that of an inflicted lycanthropy so I thought that they should be able to gain some sort of benefit from the skill that they will need to put points into every level. To top it all off, that is the ONLY thing they can use that skill for, and their Int is also reduced making skill points even more valuable. I personally don't see this as being all that bad. I guess if it really all that much of a problem you could just remove the extras, but that would make it seem unfair to the player not only losing a -2 to into but effectivly a -4 to int as far as skills are conserned. The concentration skill is a sugestion I will think about, but it just dosn't make as much sense as control shape. It bears repeating: simpler is better. Think of how you can trim down the lycan spawn-as-characters rules by using or referring to existing mechanics. Think of how much time you want a player or the DM to spend adjudicating this or that lycan's quality when their turn comes up in the initiative order. Yeah very good idea, I sometimes find it hard recalling or finding specific things and rules. Also I do have a habit of over complicating things. Your help has been very usfull! I would like to ask that you please continue to balance this template out. Thank you very much.
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 02:27 AM	Oops srry, for some reason some of the updates didn't post. Hows This?
travellersside 03-24-07, 10:25 PM	Allergy to Silver:Silver Coins tossed at a lycan spawn deal 1d2 damage per 10 pieces of silver tossed at once. This is a death sentance. Basically, how many silver coins can you throw at a time? If I empty a pouch over the lycan spawn, every coin counts. So, how many coins? 50? 100? More? The smallest size pouch should be able to hold at least 50 coins, which isn't too bad - only 5D2. However, adventurers have a tendancy to carry sackfulls of coins, and a small sack would contain many hundreds of coins (1,000 coins weigh 20lb). 1000 coins is 100D2. Much worse. Anybody hunting a lycan spawn would know about their weakness to currency, and would convert their currency to silver and just use that to attack with. 1,000 silver coins only costs 100gp, and assuming that you win, you can pick them up again, thus they're essentially free. Just dump the idea. Silver coins should just be used in a bludgeoning attack that will overcome DR. Now you only have to worry about how much damage the coins would inflict on anybody - very little.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-24-07, 10:32 PM	I think the allergy to silver bit can be dropped completely. There's really no basis for it in D&D. MM lycanthropes can handle, use, wear, etc silver without any trouble. And I agree with the above sentiment that adding traits which arbitrarily decrease survivability isn't generally a good design approach.
Spikes01k 03-25-07, 12:54 AM	Alright, then how would you suggest I balance it out?
Neutronium_Dragon 03-25-07, 10:25 AM	Alright, how about something like this: Lycan Spawn (Template) -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma +2 Racial bonus to to Intimidate and Survival checks Lycan Spawn have the (shapechanger) subtype Alternate Form (See Below) Level Adjustment +0 A Lycan Spawn may assume a hybrid form of its humanoid and animal forms. In this hybrid form, the Lycan Spawn grows claws and may make a single claw attack as a natural weapon attack, dealing 1d4 damage (if medium) or 1d3 damage (if small). This claw attack may be used as a primary attack or as a secondary attack, following the normal rules for natural attacks. A Lycan Spawn in hybrid form retains the use of all of its equipment (as per the normal rules) and gains Low Light Vision. Its size, type, and other statistics remain unchanged. A Lycan Spawn may also assume the form of its animal type. In animal form it resembles the animal in all respects, except that the animal form's size is the same as the Lycan Spawn's humanoid form. Thus, a Medium Lycan Spawn becomes a Medium wolf and a Small Lycan Spawn becomes a Small wolf. In animal form, the Lycan Spawn may make either a single bite or gore attack (as appropriate to the animal form) which deals 1d6 damage and follows the normal rules for natural attacks. A Lycan Spawn in its animal form retains the use of all of its magical equipment except for armor, shields, and weapons (as per the normal rules). Armor, shields, and weapons and all nonmagical equipment falls off during the transformation and lands in the Lycan Spawn's space. It gains Low Light Vision in its animal form, but its size, type, and other statistics remain unchanged. ----- Note that they're not gaining any ability bonuses when shapechanged under this version, although gaining some while shapechanged would be perfectly reasonable as a feat. It's also viable to gain more than +2 as long as the bonus is typed. Using Curse of the Moon as an example, lycanthropes built using that book gain +4 to Strength and Dexterity, but as Enhancement bonuses, so they don't stack with most other ability modifiers. If it's untyped then the bonus shouldn't be more than +2 to one stat.
Spikes01k 03-25-07, 11:19 PM	snip nvm sorry miss read
Spikes01k 03-27-07, 11:42 AM	Not sure if I like that version. You do not gain the a physical stat or have any weakness to silver. With out at least these you lose the game play of a lycanthropy, with the exception of the animal form. The goal of this is to create a lycanthropy game play and that would defeat the purpose. You would be better off playing a shifter. So here is another possible version with your suggestions. Lycan Spawn These are the, not so distant, relatives of the lycanthropes; and maybe even the go-between from lycanthropy and shifters. The only "known" way of them to be produced is a cross bread between a shifter and a natural or inflicted lycanthropy. The children are the same race as the lycanthropy’s race, and have an alternate forms relating to the shifter parent. Anyway that doesn’t change the fact that they are here, and showing up more often as time goes on. Despite the known way of breeding a lycan spawn there are rumors that a transmuter mage or mages are currently producing them as a part of some experiment. They appear and act a great deal like their famous and vastly more powerful ancestral lycanthropes. The lycan spawn are very well known of by people, and are viewed as lycanthropes to most people. Almost all people know their weakness because of this. They are commonly killed on site (if seen or left alone) even though they are not contagious like lycanthropy, and are not necessarily evil like their lycanthropy counter parts may be. The same hatred continues into battles, if they are spotted they are usually targeted due to the fear of getting infected with lycanthropy. If spotted by people who hunt Lycanthropy will probably track them down and kill them at their leisure. Even if the lycan spawn can convince people that they are not evil he still will find it hard to buy any equipment or supplies, and will generally be blamed for anything that goes wrong in the town. However this may be avoided if they remain in humanoid form while in towns; however roomers or a nemesis may alert the public of their true form, especially if they were discovered in another city already. In the end though they are mostly hated due to them being the result of the lycanthropy plague and are seen as a threat to everyone to come (a.k.a. Bad Genetics, a classic monster). * Sub Type: The lycan spawn inherited template can be added to any humanoid or giant that does not already have the shape shifter subtype. The lycan spawn gains the shape shifter subtype. * Alignment: Any, but usually leaning more towards their full lycanthropic versions. Lycan spawn are not genetically, and even less so socially driven to be a specific alignment +2 racial bonus to Survival skill. +2 racial bonus to Handle Animals skill with animals of same type. * Base Speed: As base race. (see below). * Low Light Vision: Lycan Spawn gains Low Light Vision, in hybrid and animal form only, if the base race did not already have Low Light Vision. Low Light Vision allows them to see twice as farther into darkness as a human normally could. * Lycan Blood: A lycan spawn may purchase Improved Natural Armor feat without meeting the prerequisites, but the benefit only applies to animal and hybrid form. When a lycan spawn reaches 9 hit die they may purchase Scent as a feat. Lycan spawn qualify as lycanthropy when under it is an effect of spells and weapon qualities. * Immunities: As base race, plus a lycan spawn are immune to lycanthropy of all types. * Aura of Disease: Lycan spawn are a product of a mystical disease intertwining into their heritage. For some reason this has produced a natural aura of unease with humanoids of the same type and suffer a -2 to all reaction and all diplomacy checks. If the fact that the lycan spawn is discovered as being what they are, the penalty is increased to -5. * Weakness to Silver: Lycan spawns suffer double damage by all silver weapons. A lycan spawn will also never use a silver item due to the fact of fear or just plane pain from touching something silver. They will also avoid carrying any item composed of silver, including coinage. Touching silver causes 1d2 points of damage per turn, and is accompanied with a hissing sound. If the item is covered in thick cloth this is reduced to non lethal damage. The visual presents of a silver weapon is very distracting to lycan spawn and suffer a -2 to all concentration checks when one is present and seen. Count damage from a silver weapon as 3 times the normal amount for determining concentration checks. Silver Coins tossed at a lycan spawn deal 1d2 damage per 10 pieces of silver tossed at once. * Alternate Form (Su): Lycan Spawn can shape shift very similarly to lycanthropy. They have also inherited the ability to take on a form of both a hybrid and animal, similar to a lycanthropy. Lycan spawn can shape shift between their Human, Hybrid, and Animal from by making two full round actions. They may not take any other actions while transforming but are not defenseless, and retain their full armor class. A lycan spawn may stay in their form indefinably except if they are forced to involuntarily transform; however changing forms is tiring and taxing on their body. After changing forms they are fatigued for 5 minutes. Also if they were in combat, if they were not magically healed or had at least 4 hours of sleep, after taking on the new form they must make a DC 20 Constitution check or be knocked unconscious as if their entire remaining hit points were reduced to -5 hit points by non-lethal damage. *In hybrid form, the lycan retains its gear, its abilities scores, and class features. It can speak and cast spells as normal. The lycan gains a claw attack (1d4 for Medium, 1d3 for small) which it can use as a primary attack with its full Strength bonus. If the lycan fights with a weapon, it can make a secondary attack with the claw (at -5, add only ½ Strength bonus) as part of a full attack action. A lycan spawn may take on this form as many times as they want. In situations where a lycan spawn humanoid and animal type are of different environments, such as a lycan spawn shark/human, they hybrid form would be amphibious and be able to breathe air and water. Changing out of this form fatigues them for at least 5 minutes. *In animal form, a lycan spawn takes on the form of the animal. The lycan cannot speak, but retains understanding of all languages it knows. However it loses its ability to uses normal equipment not specifically designed for the new form. While changing to this form, a lycan spawn must worry about their own personal gear due to their change in shape and possibly size. Most items that are designed for the use by a humanoid, that are worn, form fall off and items such as weapons that are held are dropped. The same effect applies to items designed for your animal form. The one exception to these rules maybe amulets, which have extended chains for larger creatures, and they must not require any activation for use. Unlike the hybrid form and normal lycanthropy they may only voluntarily take on this form 1/day and gain an additional use per every 4 class levels obtained. The lycan gains the following traits based on the animal chosen at character creation: Movement’s base speed and type in place of their own, feats, special qualities, skill bonuses, and natural attacks. *Ability Modifiers: A lycan spawn gains ONE of the following increases to strength, dexterity, or constitution, and only while in Animal or Hybrid form. The stats that can be increased are limited by the lycanthropy equivalent’s bonuses. If constitution is chosen your hit points do increase while in hybrid form and animal form only. These hit points are lost last if they take on humanoid form. This could nock them unconscious or even kill them. *Stats per Lycanthropy List Bat (dire): +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con Bear: +2 Str or +2 Con Boar: +2 Str or +2 Con Rat: (dire): +2 Dex Tiger: +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con Wolf: +2 Dex or +2 Con *Other Types of Lycan Spawn: A Lycan Spawn can not have a base animal that is more than one size category smaller or larger than their humanoid race and other lycanthropes must have a Str, Dex, or Con stat of 14+ to be viable to be increased. Example: A Medium Shark has Str 13, Dex 15, and Con 13. A Lycan Spawn Shark can only have a +2 Dex as one of it's possibilities. A Cheetah though has Str 16, Dex 19, and Con 15. Thus A Lycan Spawn Cheetah can have +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con as one of it's possible increased stats. Languages: As base race. Favorite Class: As base race. LA: Effectively +0 LA template. New Feat Lycan Form Mastery Prerequisites: Lycanthropy or a Lycan Spawn With this feat lycan spawn now gains a greater mastery of they shape shifting ability. They now have an extended ability to expand on the control shape skill. This feat also makes Control Shape a class skill no matter what class they are. If they have spent skill points already in the skill the rank is doubled retroactively so that it is as if it was always a class skill. Control Shape (for Lycan Spawn): Control shape is a useful skill for all lycan spawn. They can use this skill to aid them with shape shifting acts they would not be able to do other wise. The key ability is to quicken their shape shifting ability; this does stack with other abilities that reduce your shape shifting ability. So if it is already reduced to a move action then it is considered part of the move action at the same Difficulty Check. All of the following effects act as 1/day plus an additional use per day per 3 hit die obtained. When applicable, all effects lasts your constitution modifier in rounds. When a higher DC is made the duration is extended by +1 round per 10 DC met over actual DC, Example: Shape shifting claws from your animal form to your hybrid form has a DC of 20, a DC of 37 is made, this is a DC 17 over DC 20, so the duration is automatically extended by +1 more round. *Quicken Shape Shifting ability to only one full round action DC 15 *Shape Shifting the claws from your animal to you hybrid form DC 20 *Shape Shifting the bite from your animal form DC 25 *Increasing your speed of your Hybrid form by +5ft (Your animal form must be faster than your humanoid form) DC 25 *Inflicted taking on the hybrid form even though they failed their involuntary transformation DC 10; minimum of 1 round with DC 10. I changed the weakness to silver so that it would be more in line with the weakness that red dragons get so maybe they will leave me alone about it not being normal and all for DnD:rolleye2: . Because that is so powerful I eliminated the involuntary transformation and the -2 to int, although I am contemplating a -2 to int and wisdom. I generally don't think Cha really should apply as offten as people try to make it.
okaynowa 03-27-07, 12:03 PM	* Aura of Disease: Lycan spawn are a product of a mystical disease intertwining into their heritage. For some reason this has produced a natural aura of unease with humanoids of the same type and suffer a -2 to all reaction and all diplomacy checks. If the fact that the lycan spawn is discovered as being what they are, the penalty is increased to -5.I would qualify that penalty to the reaction checks as a circumstance or racial penalty. Also, I would explicitly define "discovered" as "witnessed changing form" to avoid ambiguity. But over all, I like this version more than the previous social stigma. * Weakness to Silver: Lycan spawns suffer double damage by all silver weapons. A lycan spawn will also never use a silver item due to the fact of fear or just plane pain from touching something silver. They will also avoid carrying any item composed of silver, including coinage. Touching silver causes 1d2 points of damage per turn, and is accompanied with a hissing sound. If the item is covered in thick cloth this is reduced to non lethal damage. The visual presents of a silver weapon is very distracting to lycan spawn and suffer a -2 to all concentration checks when one is present and seen. Count damage from a silver weapon as 3 times the normal amount for determining concentration checks. Silver Coins tossed at a lycan spawn deal 1d2 damage per 10 pieces of silver tossed at once.The killoren in Races of the Wild have a "cold iron sensitivity" quality to reflect their fey nature: basically, they take a penalty to attacks made with cold iron weapons. Imposing a concentration penalty or attack penalty is good. Causing players double damage with weapons and hurting them with lobbed coins is extremely unattractive. They have no choice in the matter, no counter. A dragon with the fire subtype can at least get access to spells that mitigate their vulnerability to cold. The problem with this proposed vulnerability isn't just that it's "not normal D&D." This vulnerability is complicated (the DM and players will literally have to count [silver] pennies), unfair (there's no way to defend against it), and disproportionate (in exchange for an animal shape, their life expectancy is cut in half against certain weapons). Players may regret choosing to play a lycan spawn character the first time they're damaged by loose change.
Spikes01k 03-27-07, 12:18 PM	I would qualify that penalty to the reaction checks as a circumstance or racial penalty. Also, I would explicitly define "discovered" as "witnessed changing form" to avoid ambiguity. But over all, I like this version more than the previous social stigma. Ok will do, good suggestion. The killoren in Races of the Wild have a "cold iron sensitivity" quality to reflect their fey nature: basically, they take a penalty to attacks made with cold iron weapons. Imposing a concentration penalty or attack penalty is good. Causing players double damage with weapons and hurting them with lobbed coins is extremely unattractive. They have no choice in the matter, no counter. A dragon with the fire subtype can at least get access to spells that mitigate their vulnerability to cold. The problem with this proposed vulnerability isn't just that it's "not normal D&D." This vulnerability is complicated (the DM and players will literally have to count [silver] pennies), unfair (there's no way to defend against it), and disproportionate (in exchange for an animal shape, their life expectancy is cut in half against certain weapons). Players may regret choosing to play a lycan spawn character the first time they're damaged by loose change. Ok, I see your point. Some suggestion on how to go by getting extra damage dealt by silver weapons that might be a bit more manageable would be nice. Maybe have it be only +1/2 damage, keep the concentration aspects but get ride of the coinage damage and change it to equivolent concentration damage and a I need to add a -2 to hide checks, due to the burning hiss sound. Follow up this with maybe a magical spell or state that magical energy resistance spells apply the same way toward silver; and make some items that could protect them to a degree. PS. with this I might reinstate the -2 int. P.S.S. How about something like this. Weakness to Silver: Lycan spawns suffer and additional half damage by all silver weapons. A lycan spawn will also never use a silver item due to the fact of fear or just plane pain from touching something silver. They will also avoid carrying any item composed of silver, including coinage. Touching silver causes 1d2 points of damage per turn, and is accompanied with a hissing sound. If the item is covered in thick cloth this is reduced to non lethal damage. The visual presents of a silver weapon is very distracting to lycan spawn and suffer a -2 to all concentration checks when one is present and seen. Count damage from a silver weapon as 3 times the normal amount for determining concentration checks. For lycan spawns their weakness to silver can be overcome with a costume cast spell of energy resistance and immunity. Although it takes not additional training or feats it is harder to pull of and requires one level higher spell slot to cast. Also similar magical items can be made to help with silver, but the costs need to be calculated due to the higher spell needed to make the item.
okaynowa 03-27-07, 01:36 PM	I think a condition modifier or two would do everything you want. For example:Silver Vulnerability (Ex): Due to the lingering curse of lycanthropy in their blood, lycan spawn suffer a negative reaction to the presence of silver. A lycan spawn who carries a silver item (such as weapons or coins) is sickened (-2 penalty to attack and weapon damage rolls, saving throws, and skill and ability checks) until that item is dropped. A lycan spawn who is struck by a silver weapon is dazzled (-1 to attack rolls, and Search and Spot checks) for 1 round as it burns their flesh on contact. If being struck forces a lycan spawn to make a Concentration check, the damage dealt by a silver weapon counts double.The bolded status conditions are in the SRD. Already, we can see that no lycan spawn in his right mind will voluntarily pick up silver-- a penalty to saving throws is highly unpleasant. There's room for fun, though ("Notice how Ered always pays in gold and tells us to keep the change? What a curiously generous man!"). And note that while the penalty is easy to avoid (don't carry silver and you won't suffer), there's still a trade off-- a lycan spawn is now distinctly at a disadvantage when dealing with devils and real lycanthropes, all of whom have DR X/silver (don't carry silver, and you can't quickly defeat that wereboar). The dazzling effect when struck is enough to make the player exercise caution, but not a direct impediment to survival. The distraction forces the lycan to choose between attacking and/or casting at a penalty, or doing something that won't suffer a penalty (such as moving away or going totally defensive). If you want, you could even toss in something like, "A lycan spawn who is struck for a critical blow by a silver weapon is dazed (no penalty to AC, but unable to take any actions for 1 round)." I probably wouldn't add it myself, but it would scale nicely with the dazzling effect to represent increasing amounts of pain. Either way, these conditions put the character at a disadvantage without putting him directly in jeopardy. The nice bit about these condition modifiers is they're all common, familiar mechanics that DMs (and most players) already know how to implement. They can read that quality in the race's description and instantly know, "Ah-- silver is bad for lycan spawn. If my character sees silver coming, I'd better get out of the way or neutralize it." No new rules, no learning involved. But, that's just me. I'm really big on status conditions lately-- I think they're interesting and underused. Just as an afterthought, another reason to get rid of the coin-tossing thing is that you'd have to figure out how attacking with coins works. Is it a regular ranged attack, or a ranged touch attack? How many coins can a Medium creature toss? How about a Small or Large creature? If I hit a lycan spawn with a bunch of coins, will they do splash damage to the lycan spawn standing adjacent? If so, how much? Does the damage double on a critical? Do I get iterative attacks with coins? Like I said, complicated. The game will run smoother without it.
Spikes01k 03-27-07, 02:47 PM	I think a condition modifier or two would do everything you want. For example:The bolded status conditions are in the SRD. Already, we can see that no lycan spawn in his right mind will voluntarily pick up silver-- a penalty to saving throws is highly unpleasant. There's room for fun, though ("Notice how Ered always pays in gold and tells us to keep the change? What a curiously generous man!"). And note that while the penalty is easy to avoid (don't carry silver and you won't suffer), there's still a trade off-- a lycan spawn is now distinctly at a disadvantage when dealing with devils and real lycanthropes, all of whom have DR X/silver (don't carry silver, and you can't quickly defeat that wereboar). The dazzling effect when struck is enough to make the player exercise caution, but not a direct impediment to survival. The distraction forces the lycan to choose between attacking and/or casting at a penalty, or doing something that won't suffer a penalty (such as moving away or going totally defensive). If you want, you could even toss in something like, "A lycan spawn who is struck for a critical blow by a silver weapon is dazed (no penalty to AC, but unable to take any actions for 1 round)." I probably wouldn't add it myself, but it would scale nicely with the dazzling effect to represent increasing amounts of pain. Either way, these conditions put the character at a disadvantage without putting him directly in jeopardy. The nice bit about these condition modifiers is they're all common, familiar mechanics that DMs (and most players) already know how to implement. They can read that quality in the race's description and instantly know, "Ah-- silver is bad for lycan spawn. If my character sees silver coming, I'd better get out of the way or neutralize it." No new rules, no learning involved. But, that's just me. I'm really big on status conditions lately-- I think they're interesting and underused. Just as an afterthought, another reason to get rid of the coin-tossing thing is that you'd have to figure out how attacking with coins works. Is it a regular ranged attack, or a ranged touch attack? How many coins can a Medium creature toss? How about a Small or Large creature? If I hit a lycan spawn with a bunch of coins, will they do splash damage to the lycan spawn standing adjacent? If so, how much? Does the damage double on a critical? Do I get iterative attacks with coins? Like I said, complicated. The game will run smoother without it. WOW that is a great idea. However maybe adding +2 damage from silver will be better. Its small, and is only a slight problem early on but in later levels I should be less of a problem.
Spikes01k 03-27-07, 03:01 PM	Alright I think we may have v.5 or v.4.2 here. I would like it if you could please tell me if it is balanced. Lycan Spawn They are the not so distant relatives of the lycanthropes; and maybe even the go-between from lycanthropy and shifters. The only "known" way of them to be produced is a cross bread between a shifter and a natural or inflicted lycanthropy. The children are the same race as the lycanthropy’s race, and have an alternate forms relating to the shifter parent. Anyway that doesn’t change the fact that they are here, and showing up more often as time goes on. Despite the known way of breeding a lycan spawn there are rumors that a transmuter mage or mages are currently producing them as a part of some experiment. They appear and act a great deal like their famous and vastly more powerful ancestral lycanthropes. The lycan spawn are very well known of by people, and are viewed as lycanthropes to most people. Almost all people know their weakness because of this. They are commonly killed on site (if seen or left alone) even though they are not contagious like lycanthropy, and are not necessarily evil like their lycanthropy counter parts may be. The same hatred continues into battles, if they are spotted they are usually targeted due to the fear of getting infected with lycanthropy. If spotted by people who hunt Lycanthropy will probably track them down and kill them at their leisure. Even if the lycan spawn can convince people that they are not evil he still will find it hard to buy any equipment or supplies, and will generally be blamed for anything that goes wrong in the town. However this may be avoided if they remain in humanoid form while in towns; however roomers or a nemesis may alert the public of their true form, especially if they were discovered in another city already. In the end though they are mostly hated due to them being the result of the lycanthropy plague and are seen as a threat to everyone to come (a.k.a. Bad Genetics, a classic monster). Sub Type: The lycan spawn inherited template can be added to any humanoid or giant that does not already have the shape shifter subtype. The lycan spawn gains the shape shifter subtype. Alignment: Any, but usually leaning more towards their full lycanthropic versions. Lycan spawn are not genetically, and even less so socially driven to be a specific alignment Abilities: -2 to intelligence. +2 racial bonus to Survival skill. +2 racial bonus to Handle Animals skill with animals of same type. Base Speed: As base race. (see below). Low Light Vision: Lycan Spawn gains Low Light Vision, in hybrid and animal form only, if the base race did not already have Low Light Vision. Low Light Vision allows them to see twice as farther into darkness as a human normally could. Lycan Blood: A lycan spawn may purchase Improved Natural Armor feat without meeting the prerequisites, but the benefit only applies to animal and hybrid form. When a lycan spawn reaches 9 hit die they may purchase Scent as a feat. Lycan spawn qualify as lycanthropy when under it is an effect of spells and weapon qualities. Immunities: (Ex) As base race, plus a lycan spawn are immune to lycanthropy of all types. Aura of Disease: (Ex): Lycan spawn are a product of a mystical disease intertwining into their heritage. For some reason this has produced a natural aura of unease with humanoids of the same type and suffer a -2 to all reaction and all diplomacy checks. If the fact that the lycan spawn is discovered as being what they are, by ether being seen changing forms or seen in their hybrid form the penalty is increased to -5. Silver Vulnerability (Ex): Due to the lingering curse of lycanthropy in their blood, lycan spawn suffer a negative reaction to the presence of silver. A lycan spawn who carries a silver item (such as weapons or coins) is sickened (-2 penalty to attack and weapon damage rolls, saving throws, and skill and ability checks) until that item is dropped. A lycan spawn who is struck by a silver weapon suffers 2 additional points of damage and is dazzled (-1 to attack rolls, and Search and Spot checks) for 1 round as it burns their flesh on contact. If being struck forces a lycan spawn to make a Concentration check, the damage dealt by a silver weapon counts double. Alternate Form (Su): Lycan Spawn can shape shift very similarly to lycanthropy. They have also inherited the ability to take on a form of both a hybrid and animal, similar to a lycanthropy. Lycan spawn can shape shift between their Human, Hybrid, and Animal from by making two full round actions. They may not take any other actions while transforming but are not defenseless, and retain their full armor class. A lycan spawn may stay in their form indefinably except if they are forced to involuntarily transform; however changing forms is tiring and taxing on their body. After changing forms they are fatigued for 5 minutes. Also if they were in combat, if they were not magically healed or had at least 4 hours of sleep, after taking on the new form they must make a DC 20 Constitution check or be knocked unconscious as if their entire remaining hit points were reduced to -5 hit points by non-lethal damage. *In hybrid form, the lycan retains its gear, its abilities scores, and class features. It can speak and cast spells as normal. The lycan gains a claw attack (1d4 for Medium, 1d3 for small) which it can use as a primary attack with its full Strength bonus. If the lycan fights with a weapon, it can make a secondary attack with the claw (at -5, add only ½ Strength bonus) as part of a full attack action. A lycan spawn may take on this form as many times as they want. In situations where a lycan spawn humanoid and animal type are of different environments, such as a lycan spawn shark/human, they hybrid form would be amphibious and be able to breathe air and water. Changing out of this form fatigues them for at least 5 minutes. *In animal form, a lycan spawn takes on the form of the animal. The lycan cannot speak, but retains understanding of all languages it knows. However it loses its ability to uses normal equipment not specifically designed for the new form. While changing to this form, a lycan spawn must worry about their own personal gear due to their change in shape and possibly size. Most items that are designed for the use by a humanoid, that are worn, form fall off and items such as weapons that are held are dropped. The same effect applies to items designed for your animal form. The one exception to these rules maybe amulets, which have extended chains for larger creatures, and they must not require any activation for use. Unlike the hybrid form and normal lycanthropy they may only voluntarily take on this form 1/day and gain an additional use per every 4 class levels obtained. The lycan gains the following traits based on the animal chosen at character creation: Movement’s base speed and type in place of their own, feats, special qualities, skill bonuses, and natural attacks. *Ability Modifiers: A lycan spawn gains ONE of the following increases to strength, dexterity, or constitution, and only while in Animal or Hybrid form. The stats that can be increased are limited by the lycanthropy equivalent’s bonuses. If constitution is chosen your hit points do increase while in hybrid form and animal form only. These hit points are lost last if they take on humanoid form. This could nock them unconscious or even kill them. *Stats per Lycanthropy List Bat (dire): +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con Bear: +2 Str or +2 Con Boar: +2 Str or +2 Con Rat: (dire): +2 Dex Tiger: +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con Wolf: +2 Dex or +2 Con *Other Types of Lycan Spawn: A Lycan Spawn can not have a base animal that is more than one size category smaller or larger than their humanoid race and other lycanthropes must have a Str, Dex, or Con stat of 14+ to be viable to be increased. Example: A Medium Shark has Str 13, Dex 15, and Con 13. A Lycan Spawn Shark can only have a +2 Dex as one of it's possibilities. A Cheetah though has Str 16, Dex 19, and Con 15. Thus A Lycan Spawn Cheetah can have +2 Str, +2 Dex, or +2 Con as one of it's possible increased stats. Languages: As base race. Favorite Class: As base race. LA: Effectively +0 LA template. New Feat Lycan Form Mastery Prerequisites: Lycanthropy or a Lycan Spawn With this feat lycan spawn now gains a greater mastery of they shape shifting ability. They now have an extended ability to expand on the control shape skill. This feat also makes Control Shape a class skill no matter what class they are. If they have spent skill points already in the skill the rank is doubled retroactively so that it is as if it was always a class skill. Control Shape (for Lycan Spawn): Control shape is a useful skill for all lycan spawn. They can use this skill to aid them with shape shifting acts they would not be able to do other wise. The key ability is to quicken their shape shifting ability; this does stack with other abilities that reduce your shape shifting ability. So if it is already reduced to a move action then it is considered part of the move action at the same Difficulty Check. All of the following effects act as 1/day plus an additional use per day per 3 hit die obtained. When applicable, all effects lasts your constitution modifier in rounds. When a higher DC is made the duration is extended by +1 round per 10 DC met over actual DC, Example: Shape shifting claws from your animal form to your hybrid form has a DC of 20, a DC of 37 is made, this is a DC 17 over DC 20, so the duration is automatically extended by +1 more round. *Quicken Shape Shifting ability to only one full round action DC 15 *Shape Shifting the claws from your animal to you hybrid form DC 20 *Shape Shifting the bite from your animal form DC 25 *Increasing your speed of your Hybrid form by +5ft (Your animal form must be faster than your humanoid form) DC 25 *Inflicted taking on the hybrid form even though they failed their involuntary transformation DC 10; minimum of 1 round with DC 10.
Spikes01k 03-27-07, 03:54 PM	I got a great new idea! What if I make it so that they suffer a -2 to all physical stats which they gain back while in their alternate forms in addition to the normal bonus I normally have them get. This should help to balance out them a little and add fluff to them as a race. So this would be like this Abilities: -2 Strength, Dex, and Int Alternate Form Abilities: +2 Str, Dex, and chosen stat.
okaynowa 03-29-07, 09:30 AM	What if I make it so that they suffer a -2 to all physical stats which they gain back while in their alternate forms in addition to the normal bonus I normally have them get.In that case, a lycan spawn ranger or rogue will be at -2 Dex and -2 Str except when in animal form, when their unusable gear falls off and could get left behind and many class skills are unusable, or hybrid form, when unfriendly people will know to hit them with silver. The key to balance is not imposing penalties, but forcing choices. A player chooses to play a lycan spawn for the benefit of shapechanging, but at the cost of spells, skills, and sociability (low Int, aura of unease). The lycan spawn character chooses to shift into animal form for the speed and strength, but at the cost of communication and tools. A penalty here or there is a trade-off; too many negative modifiers, though, straightjacket the player's options, and make choosing the race in the first place unattractive.
Spikes01k 03-29-07, 05:02 PM	In that case, a lycan spawn ranger or rogue will be at -2 Dex and -2 Str except when in animal form, when their unusable gear falls off and could get left behind and many class skills are unusable, or hybrid form, when unfriendly people will know to hit them with silver. The key to balance is not imposing penalties, but forcing choices. A player chooses to play a lycan spawn for the benefit of shapechanging, but at the cost of spells, skills, and sociability (low Int, aura of unease). The lycan spawn character chooses to shift into animal form for the speed and strength, but at the cost of communication and tools. A penalty here or there is a trade-off; too many negative modifiers, though, straightjacket the player's options, and make choosing the race in the first place unattractive. Hmm ok, I think I see your point, but the idea was to give them a negative, the idea is to give them a negative. A fighter elf is willing to take a -2 hit to con to get a +2 to dex. Here they need to trade a weaker humanoid form for a stronger hybrid form that has consequences as well. If you don't like it I would like to hear more why please.
okaynowa 03-30-07, 09:55 AM	Negatives don't always have to be ability score penalties. The lycan spawn already have several checks to their power: their vulnerability to silver, the fact that their gear doesn't meld with their animal shape (that's a huge drawback, really), their social penalty, the fact that actually changing shape fatigues them. Those restrictions are good balances to the shapechanging because The character can't change willy-nilly because he'll drop all his gear and possibly lose the use of some important skills and class features The character can't change willy-nilly because it tires him and makes him vulnerable The character can't change willy-nilly because he risks being identified for what he is and targeted with silver-based attacks Adding penalties to the humanoid form's physical ability scores means the lycan spawn is damned if he doesn't change shape, and damned if he does. A player shopping around for a character race probably won't choose one that leaves them weak half the time and an ill-equipped animal the other half. The idea should not be "to give them a negative." The idea should be to make changing shape something the player has to think twice about. The player should have to make decisions like: "If I go into bear form, I can Scent our foes, but I won't be able to tell my party what I'm smelling." "If I go into wolf form, I can catch up with that fleeing bandit, but then I have to leave my wand of sleep behind." "If I go into hybrid form, I can get an extra bite attack on this guy, but then he might know to pull a silver weapon on me, and I won't have a use in reserve should I need it later." The player should not have to say, "I've got to stay in hybrid form through the whole dungeon, because otherwise my melee rolls suck." That is why I do not recommend heaping on ability score penalties.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 01:04 PM	Negatives don't always have to be ability score penalties. The lycan spawn already have several checks to their power: their vulnerability to silver, the fact that their gear doesn't meld with their animal shape (that's a huge drawback, really), their social penalty, the fact that actually changing shape fatigues them. Those restrictions are good balances to the shapechanging because The character can't change willy-nilly because he'll drop all his gear and possibly lose the use of some important skills and class features The character can't change willy-nilly because it tires him and makes him vulnerable The character can't change willy-nilly because he risks being identified for what he is and targeted with silver-based attacks Adding penalties to the humanoid form's physical ability scores means the lycan spawn is damned if he doesn't change shape, and damned if he does. A player shopping around for a character race probably won't choose one that leaves them weak half the time and an ill-equipped animal the other half. The idea should not be "to give them a negative." The idea should be to make changing shape something the player has to think twice about. The player should have to make decisions like: "If I go into bear form, I can Scent our foes, but I won't be able to tell my party what I'm smelling." "If I go into wolf form, I can catch up with that fleeing bandit, but then I have to leave my wand of sleep behind." "If I go into hybrid form, I can get an extra bite attack on this guy, but then he might know to pull a silver weapon on me, and I won't have a use in reserve should I need it later." The player should not have to say, "I've got to stay in hybrid form through the whole dungeon, because otherwise my melee rolls suck." That is why I do not recommend heaping on ability score penalties. Thank you, you make a great argument. I will change it back.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 06:38 PM	okaynowa, would you say Lycan Spawn is balanced yet for a LA 0?
Neutronium_Dragon 03-30-07, 08:37 PM	Drop the Aura of Disease. The only effect it has is to discourage the character (and player) from even trying to interact with NPCs, and while this may seem thematic, it's also an impediment to one of the basic elements of the game. Just give them a flat -2 to Charisma to reflect the fact that they don't relate well to others. The Silver Vulnerability is way too convoluted right now. Remember KISS. It also doesn't fit the nature of lycanthropes in D&D. Some other game systems presuppose that silver is inherently harmful, but a D&D werewolf can use and handle silver items just fine. Dazzle is also a strange condition to inflict when you're struck by a weapon. Dazzled basically means that glare in your eyes has made it difficult to see. Unless silver weapons inherently flash like a strobe light on hitting these guys, it's the wrong condition. Sickened would be the one you want, but this doesn't address the theme problem - D&D lycanthropes don't mind silver. It would be a lot more straightforward to just say that silver weapons inflict +1 damage and leave it at that. Something which has been made clear in the Magic Item Compendium is that while armor, weapons, and shields will not resize and will only reshape to similar/same body forms, other types of magical items (boots, rings, cloaks, etc) will reshape to any body form that has a generally equivalent part. Thus, not only will these guys be able to use all of their magical gear in hybrid form, their magical gear other than armor, weapons, and shields will also resize/reshape to their animal form. (Unless that animal form is totally lacking a bodypart, such as gloves or bracers on a snake, which has nothing equivalent to arms.)
Neutronium_Dragon 03-30-07, 08:42 PM	(I wish, I wish, the edit button would appear for me...) Alternate Form needs a rework. This one is also unnecessarily convoluted. Two full round actions is also an odd duck in terms of action time. The bit about "if they're in combat but haven't been healed or four hours of sleep" doesn't even make much sense as written. (How often are you going to get four hours of sleep during a combat?) "A lycan spawn may change forms as a full-round action. It is dazed for one round after doing so." Much better.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 10:03 PM	(I wish, I wish, the edit button would appear for me...) Alternate Form needs a rework. This one is also unnecessarily convoluted. Two full round actions is also an odd duck in terms of action time. The bit about "if they're in combat but haven't been healed or four hours of sleep" doesn't even make much sense as written. (How often are you going to get four hours of sleep during a combat?) "A lycan spawn may change forms as a full-round action. It is dazed for one round after doing so." Much better. Thank you for catching the error. The silver weapon flaw stays, sorry, but this is a balance issue and the fluff is supportive. 2 full round actions is going to need to stay, so that they are more vulnerable in those two rounds, plus it is also a balance issue.
Spikes01k 03-30-07, 10:31 PM	Drop the Aura of Disease. The only effect it has is to discourage the character (and player) from even trying to interact with NPCs, and while this may seem thematic, it's also an impediment to one of the basic elements of the game. Just give them a flat -2 to Charisma to reflect the fact that they don't relate well to others. If you note that it only effects humanoids of the same type and that the negatives are minimal. They are supposed to have as good at intimidating, lying, performing, etc... They are not supposed to be ugly or socially inept for the most part. The Silver Vulnerability is way too convoluted right now. Remember KISS. It also doesn't fit the nature of lycanthropes in D&D. Some other game systems presuppose that silver is inherently harmful, but a D&D werewolf can use and handle silver items just fine. Yeah it does, silver is a problem for lycanthrpes, these are lesser so they can't use silver items, their skin isn't tough enough. Dazzle is also a strange condition to inflict when you're struck by a weapon. Dazzled basically means that glare in your eyes has made it difficult to see. Unless silver weapons inherently flash like a strobe light on hitting these guys, it's the wrong condition. Sickened would be the one you want, but this doesn't address the theme problem - D&D lycanthropes don't mind silver. Dazzle could also be caused by intense pain, thus why could count double damage for concentration checks. It would be a lot more straightforward to just say that silver weapons inflict +1 damage and leave it at that. I have +2 damage already, If you could give some suggestions on alternative negatives, that would be nice, otherwise I am stuck with what I got at the moment. Something which has been made clear in the Magic Item Compendium is that while armor, weapons, and shields will not resize and will only reshape to similar/same body forms, other types of magical items (boots, rings, cloaks, etc) will reshape to any body form that has a generally equivalent part. Thus, not only will these guys be able to use all of their magical gear in hybrid form, their magical gear other than armor, weapons, and shields will also resize/reshape to their animal form. (Unless that animal form is totally lacking a bodypart, such as gloves or bracers on a snake, which has nothing equivalent to arms.) I understand this, but their shape shifting isn't that good, this is a negative that is purposely in place.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-31-07, 12:38 AM	You want suggestions regarding balance. I'm giving them. As it is up the top right now, it's probably LA +0 in the sense that it's undesirable-to-unplayable because of the problems which are created by the various abilities and the fact that they're going to impede the game in terms of both gameplay and mechanical complexity. A penalty which only applies to your own subtype is either a pain in the neck (if you're of the same race as most NPCs) to the point of making you not want to interact (Congratulations, Mr. Strong and Silent. I hope you brought a book to read while everyone else talks to the NPCs) or essentially irrelevant if you're of a different race. (I can now happily play, oh, a halfling lycan spawn as long as the game takes place in human lands and this trait means essentially nothing. Or better yet, a half-orc one because no one wants to talk to them anyway.) Something which is that lopsidedly circumstantial does nothing to help balance, and the fact that it's essentially a mechanic which kicks people away from an important part of the game doesn't help matters. -2 Charisma is straightforward, it's not at all circumstantial, and actually works reasonably well as a balancing factor. If you're concerned about them being good at specific things, that's what a racial skill bonus is for. (You've already got a social bonus as it is.) But moreover, if you want LA +0 balanced, the above things I mentioned accomplish that. The -Int and -Cha certainly balance out the +Phys stat (especially since it's only available part of the time), Low Light Vision is pretty much a non-factor in balance, and Immunity to Lycanthropy is so narrow as to be all but irrelevant. Sure, they can attack with a claw. That's not saying much given that it's a 1d4 attack for a medium creature and thus out-done by pretty much any weapon you could be wielding in that hand instead. If you're constantly having your equipment taken away from you then it might help somewhat, but otherwise it's not really all that useful. All the same, Silver Vulnerability 1 is a minor drawback which pretty much evens out everything else, and that's assuming that you have the shifting approach that I described (since it's pretty much assumed that they'll be fighting in their best form anyway; if they're not then this template is an overall loser) and don't toss the standard magical item rules out the window. But I imagine that you're bent on keeping this version. Go ahead - but realize that most people will probably want you to give them an LA/ECL *reduction* before they're willing to get saddled with it.
Spikes01k 03-31-07, 03:21 PM	First off I just want to say is thank you for your response. This is a "[PEACH]" after all. You want suggestions regarding balance. I'm giving them. As it is up the top right now, it's probably LA +0 in the sense that it's undesirable-to-unplayable because of the problems which are created by the various abilities and the fact that they're going to impede the game in terms of both gameplay and mechanical complexity. Well lycanthropy was always a complicated template to play, how do you see this as being any more complicated. Anyway, I can't help but feel your trying to insult me. A penalty which only applies to your own subtype is either a pain in the neck (if you're of the same race as most NPCs) to the point of making you not want to interact (Congratulations, Mr. Strong and Silent. I hope you brought a book to read while everyone else talks to the NPCs) or essentially irrelevant if you're of a different race. (I can now happily play, oh, a halfling lycan spawn as long as the game takes place in human lands and this trait means essentially nothing. Or better yet, a half-orc one because no one wants to talk to them anyway.) Something which is that lopsidedly circumstantial does nothing to help balance, and the fact that it's essentially a mechanic which kicks people away from an important part of the game doesn't help matters. I sort of fail to see your point. The fact that people do not like to see their race pledged and deformed by some magical disease seems like a valid negative, however fluff-full it is. -2 Charisma is straightforward, it's not at all circumstantial, and actually works reasonably well as a balancing factor. If you're concerned about them being good at specific things, that's what a racial skill bonus is for. (You've already got a social bonus as it is.) But moreover, if you want LA +0 balanced, the above things I mentioned accomplish that. The -Int and -Cha certainly balance out the +Phys stat (especially since it's only available part of the time), Low Light Vision is pretty much a non-factor in balance, and Immunity to Lycanthropy is so narrow as to be all but irrelevant. I don't see why a lycan spawn would have a flat -2 Cha. I often see a hits to charisma when it is just not necessary or more importantly logical. Why would a lycan spawn be less able at intimidating, lie, performing or even being a scorer; they are a result of a magical linage so that could be a good source of power. If you can give me some good reasons to justifying this then I'll agree, other wise it just sounds like you want to make this a dump stat. Sure, they can attack with a claw. That's not saying much given that it's a 1d4 attack for a medium creature and thus out-done by pretty much any weapon you could be wielding in that hand instead. If you're constantly having your equipment taken away from you then it might help somewhat, but otherwise it's not really all that useful. All the same, Silver Vulnerability 1 is a minor drawback which pretty much evens out everything else, and that's assuming that you have the shifting approach that I described (since it's pretty much assumed that they'll be fighting in their best form anyway; if they're not then this template is an overall loser) and don't toss the standard magical item rules out the window. But I imagine that you're bent on keeping this version. Go ahead - but realize that most people will probably want you to give them an LA/ECL *reduction* before they're willing to get saddled with it. Yeah, I am planing on creating a feat to allow them some more normal transformation rules. I understand what your saying, however I personally fear that when using magical items things might get to be too powerful, that is why at the very least they should need to pay a feat or two. Again, if you can think of logical negatives to add then I am willing to try and consider them. This is about the fourth revision of them.
Spikes01k 09-16-07, 10:14 AM	WOOOT!!! v4.5 is here!!!! After doing some play testing I have found some over powering factors and have thus done my best for fixing these problems.
Spikes01k 01-13-08, 12:32 PM	Ok we are now at v4.6 I have taken the advice to reduce the changing form duration to 1 full round action, as well as un-nerfed the con bonus. Con is considered by WotC as being a weaker physical stat so it should apply to all forms. I will keep the language of "new forms con" to keep things clear when they go into warshaper PrC.