Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nat_20 05-14-07, 12:28 AM	All right, I personally have never done anything with this particular template but have a neat Idea for a character as a natural one and need to see Exactly how it works. Is it Class lvl + animal hit dice + lvl adj of +3?? If so that would give my character a 1D8 hit dice as a 4th lvl character if i went with an Were-Eagle???
Neutronium_Dragon 05-14-07, 12:37 AM	He must have a class level. This class level is his first level (unlike most creatures with racial hit dice) because the character must be a valid base creature before the template is applied. This also means that the maximum hit points and x4 skill modifier is applied to that class level, not to the animal hit die. (You could instead have racial hit dice from some other source, such as being a bugbear, but either way the issue is still the same: You must have a valid base creature before you can apply the template to it, and that means having a hit die already.) If you're creating him as a 1st level fighter then he'd be a 5th level character: One fighter level, one animal hit die, and +3 LA.
Nat_20 05-14-07, 12:54 AM	But dosent that make the charactor ALOT weaker than if i just went without the template??? That meant i will have 1D10+2 (14 CON as human fighter) + 1D8+3 (+2 from eagle ability scores) to make a MAX total of 23 HP as opposed to a 60 (5 fighter levels plus CON bonus of 10) Hmmmm 23 HP VS. 60 HP.... Why even bother???? How about this, Class Lvl + the CR of the animal (rounded down if 1/2) + 3 lvl adj... So a 1st level human Fighter with a Were-Loin template will have 1D10+2 (fighter with 14 CON) + 5D8+20 (ability boost of plus 4) will come to a max of 72 HP and a Total Lvl Adj of a grand total of +6 72 HP for a 7th level character as opposed to a 7th level Fighter with a max of 84 HP.... Seems like a decent way of doing this.... Anyone else think this is ok? Doesn't seem unbalancing to me...
Part-Human2 05-14-07, 01:06 AM	For +3 LA & 1 Animal HD the character gets to fly, DR 10/silver, +2 WIS, +4 DEX, +2 CON, + natural armor, etc. and hps are calculated using the animal form's Constitution score (see the template in the MM). I think a were-dire bat would be a better choice. Level Adjustment is the balancing mechanic WotC uses for playing monsters as player characters. Using 1/2 CR would be a house rule with some problems. If you're concerned the price is too much, consider being afflicted instead of natural lycanthropy or use the LA buyoff rules in Unearthed Arcana.
Nat_20 05-14-07, 01:18 AM	True, but the CR + Lvl Adj pays for that... there are races and other templates that can give that and not chip away at your HP total like having animal Hit-Dice can...
Neutronium_Dragon 05-14-07, 02:51 AM	The animal hit dice don't really cause a hit point loss. It's the +3 LA which does. In either case, you're getting a bundle of powerful (for low level) abilities, and the template is based on the assumption that you'll be using your alternate form most of the time and thereby getting those benefits. 23 HPs is mainly a problem if you face magical attacks, since DR 10/silver will stymie most low level weapon-wielders. For the most part, this is something which illustrates why high LAs aren't good at low levels. If you want to play someone eagle-themed, you might look into a race like the aaracokra or the raptorans instead.
Majick 05-14-07, 06:06 AM	1. Pick a better animal (more bang-for-your-buck in terms of what ability adjustments you get) 2. Be an effected lycanthrope (it's +2 LA, not +3) Alternative: Go a shifter from Eberon (lycantrope feel, no adjustment... as far as i can remember)
Psyber7 05-14-07, 12:48 PM	1. Pick a better animal (more bang-for-your-buck in terms of what ability adjustments you get) 2. Be an effected lycanthrope (it's +2 LA, not +3) Alternative: Go a shifter from Eberon (lycantrope feel, no adjustment... as far as i can remember) Correct, Shifter's have no LA. And the Prestige Class Were-touched Master pretty much makes them a Lycanthrope of their beast heritage without the LA or concern of being infectious. -=Psyber7=-
Nat_20 05-14-07, 02:04 PM	A Shifter isn't what I'm trying to do with this character, but the advice is welcome... But anyway I wanted to try and see if there was a way to have this template at lower levels without draining level in Animal Type Class, you know??? Yes, you get some good bonus's, but take the Half-Celestial template, Wings, good stat boosts, spell like abilities, DR, Spell Resistance, and elemental resistances... for a lvl adj of 4... now That is bang for the buck...
Ramboses 05-14-07, 08:05 PM	Well you don't really 'drain' a level into animal anyway, since the HD you get from the animal improves the stuff from your class, ie: a level one fighter w/ 1 HD from animal would get +2 bab, +3 fort. +0 ref and will
Neutronium_Dragon 05-14-07, 08:06 PM	You might be happier with SKR's Curse of the Moon variant, since it involves ECL an +1 (scalable down to +0) basic template: http://www.seankreynolds.com/skrg/products/005COTM/
NerdNumber1 05-14-07, 08:18 PM	Lycanthropes can be great. Here are some of the things you can get from animal traits: skill bonuses, fly speed, natural armor, large/small size, swim speed, blindsense, pounce, unbelievable ability scores, DR, scent, low-light vision, and much more. If you don't like the cost of these bonuses, take another race, such as a shifter. I have been pondering a were-bat that could get over ac 30 without armor or magic items fairly easily (and don't forget that DR). What was your idea? The more info we have the better.