Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 11:16 AM	i posted this a while back, but no one ever answered me how does lycanthropy affect the progression of age? i've heard it divides the life spans by seven (kinda dumb) i've heard it multplies it by seven so... what?:confused:
vegetalss4 07-26-07, 11:28 AM	i dont think it changes it.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 11:47 AM	are you sure? it doesnt seem to be defined very well it should at least extend it a little bit
vegetalss4 07-26-07, 11:57 AM	why?
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 12:20 PM	well, you are being magically transformed after all, and in most cases, it doesnt blatantly say how a template affects age. okay, vampire=immortal, BUT, what about the HALF-vampire? i'd like to know why it shouldnt affect the age
vegetalss4 07-26-07, 02:23 PM	well werewolfes are just humans(or whatever) whe can transform into a wolf. i see no endivice toward why this should make you live longer.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 02:32 PM	hmm... maybe i'm lookin at this wrong...:nonono: i'm thinking that because their human and can change into wolves, that they should have different lifespans. your saying they're just regular people who can turn into wolves, and nothing more. heh, maybe i've just seen "underworld" too many times
Asra 07-26-07, 02:54 PM	Well if you want to change their lifespan, it could go either way. Wolves live much shorter lives than humans, and since its a curse, you could just give them a wolf's lifespan. Theres no logical reason for them to actually live longer, since they're really mostly just cursed humans, of natural born lyncathropes. I mean, humans don't live too long according to most humanoid races, and wolves live even shorter lives.
vegetalss4 07-26-07, 03:00 PM	well a curse and a blessing. i think the reasons it is often considered a curse is because it (often) changes your alinment
Asra 07-26-07, 04:46 PM	Also you might go on a killing spree and not know about it if you're an afflicted lyncanthrope.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 05:41 PM	well, i'm goin with the natural lycan, and hopefully i wont need to change my alignment
Hanzo187 07-26-07, 07:02 PM	hmm... maybe i'm lookin at this wrong... i'm thinking that because their human and can change into wolves, that they should have different lifespans. your saying they're just regular people who can turn into wolves, and nothing more. heh, maybe i've just seen "underworld" too many times I get what you mean about Underworld. I even used that as my main inspiration for my Demi-Thrope. In fact, I went on creating them feeling, at least, Werewolves should have long lives. Not Elf-long, but about 400 to 500 years, considering their scarcity, the power they had, and so forth. well, i'm goin with the natural lycan, and hopefully i wont need to change my alignment. Frankly, I don't see why your alignment should automatically change. If you have a high Wis, you should have a roll to see if you have the will to resist an alignment change. WillNeg, DC 15 or something. Forced alignment changes should not be automatically changed. You should be given an opportunity to resist, like with Mind-Affecting abilities.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-26-07, 07:23 PM	no no no! there shouldnt be any alignment change at all! the only reason there IS one is because thats how the majority of people view wolves, as sinister! i find them quite noble actually, its all a matter of perspective
asurademon 07-26-07, 08:10 PM	typically if lycanthropy changes a person's life span it increases it (I'm not saying this is the case with D&D, but it's the case in some movies, rpgs, and lore). For a lycanthrope to have regeneration is not uncommon, I don't think they do in 3rd or 3.5 edition, but I if I remember correctly even in earlier editions of D&D lycanthropes regenerated when they shape shifted. Anyhow, often regenerative abilities are credited with increasing a creature's life span, or even causing them to cease aging. I'm awfully tempted to give lycanthropes regeneration or fast healing, and increase their life spans, or even make them not age past adulthood (or past when they were infected). As far as them being evil, well sure, it has something to do with people fearing wolves as far as why werewolf lore ended up having them be malicious. However ultimately werewolves aren't natural wolves. The lycanthropic condition symbolises the worst and most out of control "feral" aspects of humanity, and the lupine aspect of them is not a natural wolf, it's a corruption of a what a wolf is, and anyone that becomes a lycanthrope has to cope with the fact that these things have become a part of them to a point where they manifest as an alter ego during the full moon. That's why I'm also tempted to have natural wolves instinctively react negatively towards werewolves, because werewolves are unnatural corrupt creatures, and further more they are a corruption of everything wolf and man.
Neutronium_Dragon 07-27-07, 12:37 AM	Races of Faerun is a 3.25E book but had a preview of the 3.5E lycanthrope template. In the leading text (not included in the 3.5E MM) it did state that a lycanthrope's natural life span is unchanged. And generally, if the rules don't say that something changes (especially something mechanical such as lifespan), it doesn't.
Lord_Of_The_Abyss 07-27-07, 09:37 AM	no no no! there shouldnt be any alignment change at all! the only reason there IS one is because thats how the majority of people view wolves, as sinister! i find them quite noble actually, its all a matter of perspective Wolves are actually quite cowardly, when there are humans prenent, they hide in the bushes, only sometimes issuing a howl which alerts the others of their pack, but they never attempt to even drive off the people, they just sit there (this was on a TV show to prove that wolves are afraid of humans). That's why I'm also tempted to have natural wolves instinctively react negatively towards werewolves, because werewolves are unnatural corrupt creatures, and further more they are a corruption of everything wolf and man. Man is already corrupted and, whether you like it or not, we are still animals, there is nothing that separates us from them, do not place yourself above those who you are beneath. I believe humans are weak and quite stupid to panic at the thought of global warming wiping us all out, it's going to happen, and we deserve it.....all i will do is sit back and watch, knowing that we caused it :evillaugh ........ PS, if you don't want an alignment change, tell your DM that, also since it doesn't say the lifespan, it is obviously up for some argument but the point is, it all depends what the DM wants in their game......besides, lifespan doesn't have that much effect in game terms anyway.
Sarlax 07-27-07, 11:03 AM	There is no RAW position on the matter of an altered natural lifespan. However, we can surely reason that, without violence intervening, a lycanthrope living as a typical humanoid will live longer than others. It gains free HD and natural armor in all forms, which increases its durability. The HD, beyond giving it better HP, also likely boost all its saves, the most important of which is Fortitude. A werewolf gets a +3 bonus on Fortitude saves from it's animal hit dice. This translates into a 15% greater chance of throwing off any diseases that it encounters, which would otherwise greatly shorter its life expectancy. Thus, a lycanthrope will outlive its mundane counterparts even if it never changes shape in its life. In 2E, the Monstrous Manual described altered rates of development for lycanthropes. If I recall correctly, natural wererats became adults in 2 years. Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts, however, largely dismissed this idea, saying that no lycanthropes experienced such rapid growth and that they were only notable for reach puberty or adulthood slightly faster than others of their normal race.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-27-07, 11:09 AM	okay, for the record, a LOT of animals are afraid of humans, and for good reason, we kill them, and eat them, including wolves, thats not cowardice, thats self-preservation and if werewolves are corrupt versions of wolves, what the heck are werebears then??? they're lawful good. how can you explain that one?
Melchizedek 07-27-07, 11:59 AM	Werewolves are not corruptions of wolves, they are corruptions of humans. In the old werewolf tales, they symbolize the base nature of man. Humans are animals, and our feral instincts and brutality remain, even though we try to conceal it. Werewolves are an exhibition of what may truly lurk beneath our thin veneer of civilization. Like all myths, fairytales, and folk stories, werewolves were originally a commentary on the nature of man. the "half-wolf" thing was just incidental: since wolves were viewed with fear and thought of as vicious animals, it helped to drive the point home. Personally, I don't really like the "other" lycanthropes, since they don't have such a rich history and symbolism the draw on (although wererats work for this concept too, the moral being about avarice and betrayal rather than feral rage and brutality). I realize this doesn't actually help with the OPer's question. You might try adjusting all of the base race's aging categories by 10% or 20% (up or down, depending on which you feel is more appropriate). Just a thought, hope it helps.
Mojo_Rat 07-27-07, 05:41 PM	Generaly speaking, I am not sure why an issue of Lycanthropy comes down to an issue of wolves themselves. As Lycanthropes are corruptions of humans not wolves. Lycanthropy is also a Curse. Yes there are natural lycanthropes but they are esentialy people born with the curse. Its a somewhat tragic concept. By arguing against the Alignment shift you are essentialy saying 'i dont want one of the main negative aspects of this template' thats what it is a negative aspect just as a ogre has a penalty to int. The alignment aspect of werewolves also provides for alot of good rp oportunities as the PC attempts tor esist their natural urges. But this works mainly for the normal purse cursed rather than a natural werewolf concept.
Neutronium_Dragon 07-28-07, 02:25 AM	It's not really deemed to be a negative aspect of the template, just a quirk of it. Moreover, both of the official settings (FR and Eberron) have dispensed with or substantially altered it. (In the FR, the Always is downgraded to Often/Usually, and in Eberron, there are Always X strains of all nine alignments for every animal type rather than each animal type having only a single alignment strain.) > Personally, I don't really like the "other" lycanthropes, since they don't have > such a rich history and symbolism the draw on (although wererats work for > this concept too, the moral being about avarice and betrayal rather than > feral rage and brutality). They do, but you have to look outside of western Europe to find their mythology. Shapeshifter legends of some sort were fairly commonplace, although the actual styling of how and why often varied and the silver weapon bit (as one example) wasn't even in use in western Europe until the Victorian era. (The original werewolf legends just had them as humans who turned into ordinary wolves via magical ritual; most of the rest of it was layered on later.)
Asra 07-28-07, 04:32 PM	I don't really think natural Lycanthropes do change their alignments? Really though, afflicted Lycanthropes turn Chaotic Evil, but they can eventually gain control over it and not turn into monsters. Even then, its not as if they'll go out harming nature, just humanity. Think of Werewolves as nature's way of exteriminating humans in D&D. :cool:
ArcTan 07-28-07, 04:53 PM	There is no RAW position on the matter of an altered natural lifespan. However, we can surely reason that, without violence intervening, a lycanthrope living as a typical humanoid will live longer than others. It gains free HD and natural armor in all forms, which increases its durability. The HD, beyond giving it better HP, also likely boost all its saves, the most important of which is Fortitude. A werewolf gets a +3 bonus on Fortitude saves from it's animal hit dice. This translates into a 15% greater chance of throwing off any diseases that it encounters, which would otherwise greatly shorter its life expectancy. Thus, a lycanthrope will outlive its mundane counterparts even if it never changes shape in its life. It will be more likely to live to the end of a Human's natural lifespan, but will not have a longer natural lifespan than a Human. This is an important distinction to make. In D&D, even if you have all the best medical technology available in the world (heal, restoration, true resurrection) you go kaput when your time is up. Also, a lycanthrope can indeed have any alignment you can make up for it -- if you're doing it from the perspective of a culture where wolves are noble guardians, Werewolves could be LG -- but the point is that one breed of lycanthropes will all have the same alignment as each other (if born naturally) and will pass on that alignment through affliction, because lycanthropes aren't *just* people who turn into animals -- they're people who represent that animal's totem spirit or principle, whatever it is.
ArcTan 07-28-07, 04:54 PM	I don't really think natural Lycanthropes do change their alignments? They don't *change* their alignments, they just *have* their alignments. They're Always X, like Angels and Demons. Just like a Demon or Devil will be born CE or LE, natural Werewolves are born CE (by default), Werebears born LG, etc.
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-29-07, 01:05 AM	I don't really think natural Lycanthropes do change their alignments? Really though, afflicted Lycanthropes turn Chaotic Evil, but they can eventually gain control over it and not turn into monsters. Even then, its not as if they'll go out harming nature, just humanity. Think of Werewolves as nature's way of exteriminating humans in D&D. :cool: Read the template. Your alignment permanently changes once you fail a Will save or shift voluntarily, and you make Will saves every time you shift. Werewolves, in core D&D at least, are decidedly Evil.