Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dougch 04-10-08, 11:44 PM	my fellow capiganer is trying to ake a bear any suggestions on how to go about this
jradd777 04-10-08, 11:48 PM	You might try using the Anthropomorphic animal method from Savage Species as, at the very least, a guideline. It likely would have a substantial LA if you just used the Anthropo animal thing... but I'm not sure the details of what you're looking for.
sonofzeal 04-10-08, 11:50 PM	my fellow capiganer is trying to ake a bear any suggestions on how to go about this Uh... Awakened Bear? Bear Warrior Prc? Barbarian with a Bear Totem? Berzerker PrC with a Bear Totem? Normal Druid who stays in Bear wildshape permanently? Shapeshift Variant Druid who stays in Ferocious Slayer form permanently? Seriously dude, we need more info. What does he want exactly, and what books are allowed?
Dougch 04-10-08, 11:52 PM	sorry we dont have a lot 2 go on, but he was going to speficaly go for an awakened bear going into a monk, so were not sure about la and what not
Ogrebear 04-11-08, 08:59 AM	If you want a Bearman race I have tried making an Anthro Bearfolk race using Savage Species- it does not work well at all, the Anthro tables are kinda broken... if you want to check them out try here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-645236) and this is an older attempt: Bearman (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-442885) There is however a lack of decent WotC approved Bear races broken down and playable from 1st level. I did find this Animal Kingdoms (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=18087&it=1)on rpgnow- its Bearfolk are not that bad but the background needs tweaking a lot. In Frostburn there is the Urskan (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83579.jpg) (FB, 5HD, +4 LA, Large Magical Beasts[Cold]) "a race of intelligent, tool-using bearlike creatures" who are nothing but NPC's to me. Fan made version: Urskan (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-559589) If you are looking for ideas there is the Children of Pelor bearmen on these boards: Ursanare Race (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-215031) which I have played and it worked really well. There is the Firbolg and Panderan in the Warcraft D20 (http://www.white-wolf.com/warcraftrpg/)game, both of them are playable. The Panderan race is ECL 0 but the Firbolgs are +2 (as I recall). More fan made Bearmen: here (More fan made Bearmen: here) Viper 2 made some Bearfolk: here (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-687549) In the Bestiary of Krynn (http://www.dragonlance.com/products/SVP-4801.aspx)there is the Ursoi. Fan made stats for Ursos: here (http://www.dlnexus.com/fan/rules/12779.aspx) Since baby_kamikaize_kobold has done so much work on them it would not be right to leave the Arktosian (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=903213) out of the list of Bear type races! There is also the Bulrathi from Master of Orion who are Bearlike: http://www.moo3.at/images/moo1_bulrathi.gif Unofficial D20 stats here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=2072) Finally there is Essential Guide to Lycanthropes - Slaves of the Moon (http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=8759&ref=d20z)(d20) which contains some useful Werebear data.
ciaran 04-11-08, 07:22 PM	Lets take the black bear for an example. Obviously there is no listed LA for this animal that will become an augmented beast. So you look at the ability mods for starters. Str 27 / equates to a +16 Dex 13 / equates to a +2 Con 19 / equates to a +8 Int 2 / irrevalent as Awaken grants a random score Wis 12 / equates to a +2 Cha 6 / Awaken grants an average boost of 2, so in the end this equates to a -2 Survey says... overall a +26 to abilities. 10 ft base, 5 ft reach, low-light vision, scent, improved grab and a bonus on swim checks, +5 natural armor, 3 natural attack, 40 ft movement, two good saves, skill list with three skills every bear would want. A tidy little package. This is balanced out by the less powerful racial levels, of which you will have 8 (6 base plus 2 from awaken.) I'm not good at deciding LA for a complicated creature like this. Any suggestions? I looked for equivalents in playable races and couldn't find anything I was satisfied with. Closest I came to was the Hill Giant at LA +4.
Drackthor 04-11-08, 09:22 PM	A 27 is a +9, A 19 is a +4 A 12 is a +1. Also, what book is the Awakened Template in? Been searching around but I just can't seem to find it.
zeratulcraft 04-11-08, 09:32 PM	A 27 is a +9, A 19 is a +4 A 12 is a +1. Actually, s/he was meaning total adjustment to the score, not it's modifier. You gain +16 strength when you play an anthrobear. Also, what book is the Awakened Template in? Been searching around but I just can't seem to find it. Savage Species, said somewhere up above.
ciaran 04-11-08, 10:36 PM	I know its a weird name, even using a soft c cound (not hard like carrot, even though I'm a redhead) but I am in fact a dude. Does anyone has input on LA based on a bear? I am curious.
Drackthor 04-11-08, 10:56 PM	I know its a weird name, even using a soft c cound (not hard like carrot, even though I'm a redhead) but I am in fact a dude. Does anyone has input on LA based on a bear? I am curious. Well really, I don't think a Bear deserves a LA, I mean think about it. It's paws are shaped in such a way that most if not all conventional weapons will be impossible to use, thus making it's melee capabilities much less then what they could be, and their biggest bonuses are all physical stats, while an Awakened Bear's mental capabilies, or rather, it's spellcasting capabilities are a far, far cry from it's physical prowess.
ciaran 04-12-08, 12:52 PM	So you think 8 HD and LA +0 covers it? Drackthor, I was using the Awakened spell in the Player's Handbook.
Hellsbells 04-12-08, 01:52 PM	I just thought of something. Baby-young adult bears will often attack trees and boulders and try to move/throw them as practice or something. I wonder if a race of awakened bears could have a slightly modefied version of the giant's throw rocks ability. Maybe throw but no catch or something.
ciaran 04-12-08, 02:00 PM	With the size you could certainly qualify for certain feats or prestige classes. Even with paws - unable to grasp weapons- the DM can still rule other objects - rocks like you said - you can grasp.
sonofzeal 04-12-08, 02:05 PM	So you think 8 HD and LA +0 covers it? No. Think of it this way - how would you feel about a class with d8 hd, 2+int skillpoints, 2 good saves... and +2 strength and +1 con every level? Might not compete with full spellcasters, but puts even the Barbarian (by most accounts a reasonably balanced class) completely to shame. That's ignoring the NA, Dex boost, Wis boost, Size boost, and various other benefits. No, this deserves an LA. My vote's for LA +2, for a total of ECL 10.
ciaran 04-12-08, 03:16 PM	I didn't feel it was appropriate. I was asking Drackthor if that was his meaning. But I must admit that I like you rationale in dividing the boosts over levels to determine balance. I would say at least +2.
Essex 04-13-08, 02:09 PM	Does your friend understand the negatives of having a bear Monk? Unarmed strike does NOT combine with claw attacks. He'd be able to get iterative punches using normal unarmed strike damage and a claw or bite as a secondary natural attack. The various levels of ki strike also do not apply to the bear's natural weapons. Given that bears normally move about quadrupedally, the DM may require the character to spend a move equivalent action to assume an upright posture before using an unarmed strike. After all, what is a bear on all four legs going to do, make a flurry of headbutts? Bears do not have the manual dexterity to effectively use potions, weapons, or tools of any sort. They'd have extreme difficulty doing something as simple as opening a door knob or putting on clothing (and most articles of clothing are unlikely to fit). They cannot manipulate a money pouch. Villagers may refuse to allow the wild animal (even if it does talk) into their community, and they would be perfectly justified in doing so.
sonofzeal 04-13-08, 07:22 PM	Does your friend understand the negatives of having a bear Monk? Unarmed strike does NOT combine with claw attacks. He'd be able to get iterative punches using normal unarmed strike damage and a claw or bite as a secondary natural attack. The various levels of ki strike also do not apply to the bear's natural weapons. Given that bears normally move about quadrupedally, the DM may require the character to spend a move equivalent action to assume an upright posture before using an unarmed strike. After all, what is a bear on all four legs going to do, make a flurry of headbutts? Bears do not have the manual dexterity to effectively use potions, weapons, or tools of any sort. They'd have extreme difficulty doing something as simple as opening a door knob or putting on clothing (and most articles of clothing are unlikely to fit). They cannot manipulate a money pouch. Villagers may refuse to allow the wild animal (even if it does talk) into their community, and they would be perfectly justified in doing so. Actually, Natural Attacks combine wonderfully with the Monk's Unarmed Strike. It's basically a free extra three attacks, all merely -5 from your top BAB. With your halfdecent BAB and huge Str, that's bound to result in more than a few hits on a full attack. Quadrupedal.... well, the rules explicetly say that a bear can make a full-attack with bite and two claws without a Move action to stand up, so I fail to see how you could possibly justify it via RAW or RAI. If such a ruling ever existed, it would be merely to nerf the character, and few DMs are that mean. Equipment.... well, weapons would be an issue but I assume he's going the Unarmed route. Barding quite certainly exists for Polar Bears, and likely wouldn't even count as exotic since they've got a fairly traditional quadruped body shape, and no spiky bits or wings or whatnot like a Griffon. As for potions, WotC has published official rules for making non-potion potions - things that act like potions mechanically but take entirely different forms, such as clay tiles that are broken to release their magic or similar things. Surely something could be designed for the Bear. Money pouch and doorknobs will require a friendly biped though, you're right, although I suspect that most of the time there will be other party members around. As for racist barkeeps... well, that's a possibility for any race, but being a 600 lb mass of muscle and sinew tends to increase your odds of being served in most settings I know of.
deanruel 04-13-08, 10:02 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=681572 I am giving you a link to "Races of War" which besides being very interesting has the best rules for playing monsters as your PC's that have ever been posted on these boards. Using that system your bear would look something like... Bear (Minimum Level 5) * Large Size * 40' movement * Magical Animal Type * Low-Light Vision * +12 Strength, +4 Constitution, -6 Intelligence, -4 Charisma * Scent. * +5 Natural Armor. * Automatic Languages: Common * 5 Starting Hit Dice (5d8 HP; 4 + Int Bonus x 4 skill points; +4 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will ; +4 BAB, 2 Feats) His strength is gonna be through the roof. But his armor class and his hit points are going to be fairly shabby. Especially considering his MAD caused by his requirement to put a half-decent score into Intelligence to even be a playable character. Additionally you lack proficiency in any kind of weapon or armor but your strength and natural armor bonus' should make this a handicap you'll be able to overcome. I didn't create the rules for his claw/bite/improved grab abilities because I believe they'll be something you (the DM) will want to put special care into. Finally I'm adding in a link at the end here to the "Dungeonomicon" made by the same person as "Races of War". The Dungeonomicon has an alternate Monk class that I have replaced the standard monk with in my group as it is one of the best homebrew classes ever made. Enjoy. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=659653
Part-Human2 04-14-08, 01:08 AM	The Werebear (natural) template on a human is 6 HD + 3 LA. Removing the ability to change shape, DR/silver, etc. should mean that a Bear character should be at most +2. Some DMs might count that being a bear carries both mechanic and role-playing problems and that 6 animal HD suck and make it +1 LA.
Lord_Gix 04-14-08, 12:30 PM	I made a race of bearfolk for my campaign in September (creating the world bottom up) Ursine Medium monstrous humanoid Base Land Speed is 30 ft +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity Darkvision 60 ft +2 Racial Bonus on Intimidate, Swim, and Survival Ursines use Strength when regarding Intimidate rather than Charisma Bear Empathy - Communicate with bears and dire bears, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against bears and dire bears Automatic Languages - Common, Ursine. Bonus Languages - Giant, Sylvan Favored Class - Barbarian I've also been considering giving them the ability to use weapons as though they were large creatures, like the Goliaths in the Races of Stone, but I'm not sure if they'd be able to keep an LA +0 with that.
Dougch 04-15-08, 03:45 AM	yall are awesome n stuff thanks for all the help
zeratulcraft 04-15-08, 06:04 AM	Given that bears normally move about quadrupedally, the DM may require the character to spend a move equivalent action to assume an upright posture before using an unarmed strike. After all, what is a bear on all four legs going to do, make a flurry of headbutts? An unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body, headbutts, elbows, it's all right there in the monk feature.