Making a Vampire decent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making a Vampire decent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
matuty74
08-19-07, 05:38 PM I'm currently designing a vampire human character, and I need some help with it. I'm afarid he'll be rejected due vampires being very powerful. He's at level six with four druid ranks and two fighter ranks.

1. How do I make him not so much more powerful than normal PCs?
2. Is there a way to not make him fry in the sun?
3. Does he have to be evil?
4. Being a druid, he has divine magic. How would this be possible?
5. Would he kill himself if he used on himself?
6. Any other advice would be nice. :D
UnsounderGnome
08-19-07, 05:57 PM 1. there is a level adjustment of 8, so that will help
2. this is a tough one, the best option is the endure sunlight feat from Libris Mortis. You resist all dangerous effects of sunlight for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your charisma modifier. If, after this you are still in sunlight, it will affect you as it normally does. You're not immune, but it will buy you some time if you get caught out in the sun.
3. Monster manual says yes, but the DM could give you special permission to be some other alignment
4. it's possible, there can be evil or undead divine spell casters.
5. As long as he doesn't try to cure himself.
6. read up on the undead template in the glossary of the monster manual. there is a lot of stuff in there that vampires get for being undead that is not listed under vampire. don't forget the shades :cool: lol.
Hebitsuikaza
08-19-07, 06:37 PM Okay, here is how you make a vampire decent...

1) Once a PC becomes a vampire, he is no longer controled by the PC. PERIOD.
2) The player of the PC who have been vampirized either makes a new character who joins the party as a new recruit or takes control of one of the hirelings for the rest of the adventure.
3) During the night, around the campfire members of the party might imagine that they see their vanished friend out in the field or in the forest during the night. Unless they investigate alone, they find nothing... if they do, jump to 4.
4) Once one of the PCs is alone at night, either scouting for the party or sleeping in an inn room, they are ambushed
5) Eventually the party gets all eaten or they set a trap to capture the vampire and thus fight their former party member(s) who has (have) gone vampiric.

Vampirism is a curse, it is a disease. It takes a person and takes away their heart and soul, making them slaves to their hunger and deprivation. Becoming a vampire is a fate worse than death, it robs one of their life and an honorable death. It is not a goody-goody, happy, joyous loads-of-fun powerboost that makes you super powerful with no drawbacks! It is a dark corner of the world, something to fear, something to avoid.

PCs should not be running around, bearing their necks to every vampire on the block begging to be drained of life so that they can instantly go up 8 levels for absolutely no work at all.

Now, even if you are trying for some kind of tragic hero angle (and your post tells me definately not, you just want all the nifty powers), the fact that they can never see the sun again, that they have to kill or at least victimize and weaken people to the point that they'll probably die from disease, in order to sustain their life and that they cannot go anywhere during the day without having a cadre of slaves pack them into a box and carry them where they need to go is the tragic part of the character. And in this case, they should be fighting their curse or constantly considering whether it would be better for them to simply die rather than continue to inflict pain, especially since their deprivations are sure to only get worse as time goes on.

And even if you mean to do an "evil" campaign, a vampire's primary need would be to drain and make slaves of the other PCs in the group. In such a case, the scenario would almost certainly play out like the one I gave at the top of this post.
Turin71
08-19-07, 06:58 PM I don't know if this is an option for you but you would have better luck going for a Lycan.

Less powerfull but you will have no problem with the sun and no problem being devine caster. Actually I played a druid who became a lycan myself. This happend in game not some kind of power gamer desicion or anything like that.

There are some good align lycans but if you happen to be biten by a evil one ther is a prestige class in the complete devine ereta that helps with this. The prereqs are easy but it is actually pretty hard to actually do it depending on how tough your DM is.

You also don't lose your sole or become someone's slave like you would if you were a vampire.
speed6620
08-21-07, 03:19 PM Use a template class, break down the vampires abilities to make it balanced. Compare it to something its similar to, like the rogue and/or the vampire spawn (the spawn works well because it is ECL 8). If you use the spawn just add the extra abilities into the class that a 'true vampire' gets. Just try to balance it with classes in the PHB and you're good. On the wizards site, it has a retired article about template classes and monster classes called Savage Progressions. Hope this helps.
UnrelentingHoror
08-21-07, 10:42 PM Wow Hebitsuikaza I actually didn't think there was enough intent revealed in his post to come to that conclusion at all.

Aren't you being abit hard on the guy? Besides that may be what you want in your game but that doesn't mean thats how things are, should be, or would ideally be. Right?
it came off to me that he was trying to find ways around the vampire templates main weaknesses that make it a pain to integrate into a party, namely sunlight vulnerability and alignment. Likely because he wanted to play a template that he liked the flavour of.

Ok on to Matuty's questions.

1. Vampires have an LA of +8 meaning the character you described is actually a level 14 character. 6 for the class levels, 8 for being a vampire. It will balance out okay kind of, you may be a little behind the PCs in power but not too bad with all the abilities.
2. I'm not sure on that one, someone else mentioned it. I'd go with them and check out libris mortis.
3.It even says in the monster manual that "always" only really means like 99% You could easily be that odd neutral vampire, but I'd watch some of your abilities and especially dispose of any kills you make so they don't rise again, especially if your a good alignment.
4. It's easily doable, someone else already said divine magic can be channeled by the unliving. Ontop of that you can justify being a druid because either a) you are neutral or good and do not defile nature through extreme effort and force of will, so you keep your place. Or b) your neutral or evil and philisophically have come to the conclusion that undeath and its predations on the living IS natural in a way, as well as the dark side of nature yada yada yada. Both make for fun character concepts.
5. If you use cure spells, yes it will hurt. to heal yourself you wanna memorise harm spells or cause wounds but don't use them on your allies lol.

6. Yes i do have advice, make sure everything is cool with the GM and group. Also the drinking blood thing is abit of an issue, ways around it may be that technically you may not NEED to drink blood as your undead, I mean you won't starve to death lol. It's just more of a compulsion or addiction, or depending on GM ruleing you might. If you do need to drink you could probably start out with a ring of sustenance with your starting wealth. You won't be getting any temp hit points off it but you won't go crazy and eat your friends.
If you don't need to drink blood you could talk with your GM as to whether you've suppressed it with pure willpower, in which case you may just take Iron will for flavour sake, or he might rule the ring of sustenance tricks your system and takes the edge off.

Either way this is one of those things you want to cover the angles with a gm with. Also to Keep alignment or even druid status remember that after you kill an enemy with energy drain or blood drain to cut off their heads and burn their bodies, to avoid "spreading the taint", keeping the number of rival predators down, or whatever excuse you need.:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
matuty74 08-19-07, 05:38 PM	I'm currently designing a vampire human character, and I need some help with it. I'm afarid he'll be rejected due vampires being very powerful. He's at level six with four druid ranks and two fighter ranks. 1. How do I make him not so much more powerful than normal PCs? 2. Is there a way to not make him fry in the sun? 3. Does he have to be evil? 4. Being a druid, he has divine magic. How would this be possible? 5. Would he kill himself if he used on himself? 6. Any other advice would be nice. :D
UnsounderGnome 08-19-07, 05:57 PM	1. there is a level adjustment of 8, so that will help 2. this is a tough one, the best option is the endure sunlight feat from Libris Mortis. You resist all dangerous effects of sunlight for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your charisma modifier. If, after this you are still in sunlight, it will affect you as it normally does. You're not immune, but it will buy you some time if you get caught out in the sun. 3. Monster manual says yes, but the DM could give you special permission to be some other alignment 4. it's possible, there can be evil or undead divine spell casters. 5. As long as he doesn't try to cure himself. 6. read up on the undead template in the glossary of the monster manual. there is a lot of stuff in there that vampires get for being undead that is not listed under vampire. don't forget the shades :cool: lol.
Hebitsuikaza 08-19-07, 06:37 PM	Okay, here is how you make a vampire decent... 1) Once a PC becomes a vampire, he is no longer controled by the PC. PERIOD. 2) The player of the PC who have been vampirized either makes a new character who joins the party as a new recruit or takes control of one of the hirelings for the rest of the adventure. 3) During the night, around the campfire members of the party might imagine that they see their vanished friend out in the field or in the forest during the night. Unless they investigate alone, they find nothing... if they do, jump to 4. 4) Once one of the PCs is alone at night, either scouting for the party or sleeping in an inn room, they are ambushed 5) Eventually the party gets all eaten or they set a trap to capture the vampire and thus fight their former party member(s) who has (have) gone vampiric. Vampirism is a curse, it is a disease. It takes a person and takes away their heart and soul, making them slaves to their hunger and deprivation. Becoming a vampire is a fate worse than death, it robs one of their life and an honorable death. It is not a goody-goody, happy, joyous loads-of-fun powerboost that makes you super powerful with no drawbacks! It is a dark corner of the world, something to fear, something to avoid. PCs should not be running around, bearing their necks to every vampire on the block begging to be drained of life so that they can instantly go up 8 levels for absolutely no work at all. Now, even if you are trying for some kind of tragic hero angle (and your post tells me definately not, you just want all the nifty powers), the fact that they can never see the sun again, that they have to kill or at least victimize and weaken people to the point that they'll probably die from disease, in order to sustain their life and that they cannot go anywhere during the day without having a cadre of slaves pack them into a box and carry them where they need to go is the tragic part of the character. And in this case, they should be fighting their curse or constantly considering whether it would be better for them to simply die rather than continue to inflict pain, especially since their deprivations are sure to only get worse as time goes on. And even if you mean to do an "evil" campaign, a vampire's primary need would be to drain and make slaves of the other PCs in the group. In such a case, the scenario would almost certainly play out like the one I gave at the top of this post.
Turin71 08-19-07, 06:58 PM	I don't know if this is an option for you but you would have better luck going for a Lycan. Less powerfull but you will have no problem with the sun and no problem being devine caster. Actually I played a druid who became a lycan myself. This happend in game not some kind of power gamer desicion or anything like that. There are some good align lycans but if you happen to be biten by a evil one ther is a prestige class in the complete devine ereta that helps with this. The prereqs are easy but it is actually pretty hard to actually do it depending on how tough your DM is. You also don't lose your sole or become someone's slave like you would if you were a vampire.
speed6620 08-21-07, 03:19 PM	Use a template class, break down the vampires abilities to make it balanced. Compare it to something its similar to, like the rogue and/or the vampire spawn (the spawn works well because it is ECL 8). If you use the spawn just add the extra abilities into the class that a 'true vampire' gets. Just try to balance it with classes in the PHB and you're good. On the wizards site, it has a retired article about template classes and monster classes called Savage Progressions. Hope this helps.
UnrelentingHoror 08-21-07, 10:42 PM	Wow Hebitsuikaza I actually didn't think there was enough intent revealed in his post to come to that conclusion at all. Aren't you being abit hard on the guy? Besides that may be what you want in your game but that doesn't mean thats how things are, should be, or would ideally be. Right? it came off to me that he was trying to find ways around the vampire templates main weaknesses that make it a pain to integrate into a party, namely sunlight vulnerability and alignment. Likely because he wanted to play a template that he liked the flavour of. Ok on to Matuty's questions. 1. Vampires have an LA of +8 meaning the character you described is actually a level 14 character. 6 for the class levels, 8 for being a vampire. It will balance out okay kind of, you may be a little behind the PCs in power but not too bad with all the abilities. 2. I'm not sure on that one, someone else mentioned it. I'd go with them and check out libris mortis. 3.It even says in the monster manual that "always" only really means like 99% You could easily be that odd neutral vampire, but I'd watch some of your abilities and especially dispose of any kills you make so they don't rise again, especially if your a good alignment. 4. It's easily doable, someone else already said divine magic can be channeled by the unliving. Ontop of that you can justify being a druid because either a) you are neutral or good and do not defile nature through extreme effort and force of will, so you keep your place. Or b) your neutral or evil and philisophically have come to the conclusion that undeath and its predations on the living IS natural in a way, as well as the dark side of nature yada yada yada. Both make for fun character concepts. 5. If you use cure spells, yes it will hurt. to heal yourself you wanna memorise harm spells or cause wounds but don't use them on your allies lol. 6. Yes i do have advice, make sure everything is cool with the GM and group. Also the drinking blood thing is abit of an issue, ways around it may be that technically you may not NEED to drink blood as your undead, I mean you won't starve to death lol. It's just more of a compulsion or addiction, or depending on GM ruleing you might. If you do need to drink you could probably start out with a ring of sustenance with your starting wealth. You won't be getting any temp hit points off it but you won't go crazy and eat your friends. If you don't need to drink blood you could talk with your GM as to whether you've suppressed it with pure willpower, in which case you may just take Iron will for flavour sake, or he might rule the ring of sustenance tricks your system and takes the edge off. Either way this is one of those things you want to cover the angles with a gm with. Also to Keep alignment or even druid status remember that after you kill an enemy with energy drain or blood drain to cut off their heads and burn their bodies, to avoid "spreading the taint", keeping the number of rival predators down, or whatever excuse you need.:P