Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleolus 12-05-07, 12:31 AM	OK, I am a big fan of the Chronicles of Narnia, and I have been thinking about the Silver Chair and Puddleglum a fair amount recently, so I decided to stat up Marshwiggles as a playable race. Here's what I've got so far. Marshwiggle Medium Humanoid (Amphibious) Move 30, Swim 30. Although Marshwiggles, being amphibious, are slightly awkward on land, their exceptionally long limbs allow them to cover ground just as quickly as humans and so forth. Dex +2, Wis +2, Cha -4. Marshwiggles are very nimble, and possess a good deal of wisdom, but their 'doom and gloom' mentality puts them strongly at odds with other creatures. Low-Light Vision: Marshwiggles can see twice as far as normal humans in situations with a limited amount of light, such as a starry sky, or from a torch. +1 Natural armor. Marshwiggles have tough, leathery skin that is slightly more difficult to overcome than human skin. Marshwiggles are very difficult to affect mentally. All Marshwiggles receive a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantments and mind affecting effects. Due to the inhospitable marsh environment, strong swampy drinks and their unique tobacco mixed with mud, marshwiggles have developed a resistance to things which could prove deadly to other races. They receive a +2 racial bonus on saves versus poisons and diseases. With their slippery skin and awkward anatomy, marshwiggles gain a +2 bonus on escape artist checks The long froglike legs of the marshwiggle are deceptively strong, granting a +4 bonus on jump checks. Proficiencies: All Marshwiggles are avid eelfishers and mudfishers. They are automatically proficient with Short Bows, and treat the Net as a simple weapon, rather than an exotic weapon. Water Breathing (Ex): All Marshwiggles can breath underwater indefinitely, and can also breathe air on land without penalty. Slogging (Ex): When traveling overland through marshes, marshwiggles can ignore certain types of difficult terrain. A marshwiggle can move at full speed in shallow bogs and marsh undergrowth. Favored Class: Druid Level Adjustment: +1 Marshwiggles are an odd looking race, they appear as tall humans at first glance, though a closer look reveals several differences. The webbing on their hands and feet is much more pronounced than with humans, to allow them easier swimming, and, while they are taller than most humans, the majority of that height is found in their legs. When sitting, or otherwise deprived of the length of their legs to their height, they are no taller than a Dwarf would be in the same situation. Their arms are also proportionately long. However, Marshwiggles have one quality that makes them incredibly difficult to get along with. Every single one of them is pessimistic to the extreme, believing that nothing but the worst will come out of any situation. They will give their best, but they never expect anything good will come of whatever they try, nor do they expect any appreciation for what they do. If it is given, they shrug it off nonchalantly, without accepting that they accomplished something good.
asurademon 12-05-07, 12:44 AM	since they are awkward on land you might want to only give them a dexterity bonus when they are in water, I know this would make them weaker but it would better represent them, and perhaps there's something else you could give them that would be appropriate. I also don't think that for the majority of campaigns that being able to breath under water warrants a +1 LA, especially since they don't get anything else spiffy. I would either not have them be a +1 LA or give them something else in addition to water breathing and a swim speed, otherwise they are going to be weak compared to most other +1 LA races.
Aleolus 12-05-07, 01:07 AM	OK, how about now? Added a really powerful ability for when swimming. They basically automatically succeed on any swim check with a DC of 20 or less.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 01:25 AM	What's their powerful ability? Their swim speed? It can't be the ability to take 10 since A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line. I think a swim speed is situational enough that it's not enough to grant a +1 LA. It's not as useful as fly or burrow. I'd simplify the save bonus to a +4 bonus vs enchantment and mind-affecting spells and effects. I'd add the following: Slogging (Ex): When traveling overland through marshes, marshwiggles can ignore certain types of difficult terrain. A marshwiggle can move at full speed in shallow bogs and marsh undergrowth. With their slippery skin and awkward anatomy, marshwiggles gain a +2 bonus on escape artist checks. The marshwiggle's oversized ears allow them to hear exceptionally well, giving them a +2 on listen checks. The short squat froglike legs of the marshwiggle are deceptively strong, granting a +4 bonus on jump checks. Due to the inhospitable marsh environment, strong swampy drinks and their unique tobacco mixed with mud, marshwiggles have developed a +2 bonus on saves versus poisons and diseases. The thick leathery skin of a marshwiggle grants a +2 natural armor bonus. As prolific eelfishers and mudfishers, all marshwiggles have proficiency with the net and shortbow. Low-light vision. Favored class druid. Edit: changed format and added some flavor copy. added the slogging ability because it seemed to fit the poor marshwiggles.
asurademon 12-05-07, 02:12 AM	What's their powerful ability? Their swim speed? It can't be the ability to take 10 since I think a swim speed is situational enough that it's not enough to grant a +1 LA. It's not as useful as fly or burrow. I'd simplify the save bonus to a +4 bonus vs enchantment and mind-affecting spells and effects. I think you should say that they can also breathe air without penalty under the water-breathing section. I also think they should get a +2 bonus on saves versus poisons and diseases due to their swamp environment and the fact that they drink very strong alcohol and smoke tobacco mixed with mud. I think they should get a +2 natural armor bonus as well, since they have tough leathery skin. I'd also give them proficiency with the net and shortbow, just for fun. I'd give them low-light vision. And I'd throw in a +2 on listen and +4 on jump checks. Favored class druid would be nice and flavorful I think. They are amphibious type, and part of having that type is being able to breath both air and under water. Anyways they look like they are probably worth the +1 LA now, though as the above poster suggested, yeah maybe simplify (I'm guessing you mean decrease) the bonus against vs enchantment and mind-affecting spells and effects. Then again though this might not result in them being too powerful. The best thing to do now is see how they stand against humans, elves, and other races without an LA. The characters you put them up against should have the same ECL.
Aleolus 12-05-07, 02:17 AM	I'd simplify the save bonus to a +4 bonus vs enchantment and mind-affecting spells and effects. Done I think you should say that they can also breathe air without penalty under the water-breathing section. *forehead smack* Oops, forgot to include that. I also think they should get a +2 bonus on saves versus poisons and diseases due to their swamp environment and the fact that they drink very strong alcohol and smoke tobacco mixed with mud. Good idea on the diseases, but I'm not so sure on against poison, since lots of races smoke tobacco and drink strong alcohol and are still susceptible to poisons. I think they should get a +2 natural armor bonus as well, since they have tough leathery skin. Good idea, but I think +1 is enough. I'd also give them proficiency with the net and shortbow, just for fun. Does sound fun, and harmless, too! Rather than auto-proficiency with the Net, though, I think I'll just put that they treat it as a simple weapon, rather than what it's listed as (exotic, I think). I'd give them low-light vision. Also reasonable. And I'd throw in a +2 on listen and +4 on jump checks. ...Don't see the reasoning behind the Listen bonus, but a Jump bonus is perfectly reasonable. I'll even throw in that, since they are very akin to frogs, they can take a 10 on Jump checks, even if they normally wouldn't be able to! Favored class druid would be nice and flavorful I think. OK, I just picked Rouge because it's a high-skill class, and I couldn't figure out what their favored class would be.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 02:19 AM	I think a +1 LA should be worth it. In my opinion some of the +1 LA monsters don't give enough of a bonus to make it worthwhile, which is why few characters play them. I think a +2 NA, a swim speed, and a +2 dex +2 wis -4 cha, along with some minor flavorful bonuses is equal to a +1 LA. The minor situational bonuses to saves and skills are fine, but they aren't any better than what elves and dwarves get. I think they should be noticably better than +0 LA dwarf, human, whisper gnome and warforged.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 02:21 AM	I edited my post above. You can pick and choose whatever you like. When making a +1 LA race I like to err on giving a few too many little bonuses that will never be game-breaking, just to make it fun to play.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 02:27 AM	...Don't see the reasoning behind the Listen bonus, but a Jump bonus is perfectly reasonable. I'll even throw in that, since they are very akin to frogs, they can take a 10 on Jump checks, even if they normally wouldn't be able to! Actually, I'd carefully consider taking 10 on jump. There are many feats like leap attack and battle jump that use jump; also it can be used to bypass difficult terrain -- even avoid AoO's. I think it should be looked over; in my opinion it can be stronger than a swim speed. What other creatures take 10 on jump? What's their LA? It's nice and flavorful, but it might be too much. What's your opinion?
Aleolus 12-05-07, 02:42 AM	...Granted. I had forgotten about that. Other than that, all the stuff you listed sounds good. I still don't know about the bonus to Listen checks, but I haven't read the books in a while, so I might be misremembering their descriptions.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 02:42 AM	Marshwiggles receive a +10 on all Swim checks. Is this in addition to their swim speed? Having a swim speed grants a +8 to swim checks already. I wouldn't give them any extra bonuses. I'd remove the bonus to swim altogether and just let them have the +8 that the swim speed grants. I definitely wouldn't give them both - +18 to swim checks!
arjomanes 12-05-07, 02:47 AM	...Granted. I had forgotten about that. Other than that, all the stuff you listed sounds good. I still don't know about the bonus to Listen checks, but I haven't read the books in a while, so I might be misremembering their descriptions. I haven't read them in a while either. Makes me want to go dust off my Chronicles.
arjomanes 12-05-07, 03:00 AM	I really like this marshwiggle. It's an interesting mix of movement and defensive bonuses that I think fits the character of the race. I think it would be a fun race to play.
Aleolus 12-05-07, 01:01 PM	Anyone else have any comments on them?
kelvinaw273 12-06-07, 11:59 AM	Love it! Not sure about Favoured Class: Druid though. Maybe Ranger would be slightly more appropriate?
Aleolus 12-07-07, 12:28 AM	By the way, arjomanes, you misdescribed the legs for Marshwiggles in your post where you described their jump bonus. They have long, froglike legs, not short squat legs. Just a quick correction! :D