Melnibonean Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Melnibonean Elves [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gino
01-13-07, 08:57 AM I remember having read somewhere in Moorcock's work that Melniboneans exist in other universes, and that in ours they are called "Elves".
So why not create a new elf subrace?
What would your take be on this subrace.

I'd like them non-uber, LA+1 max,with perhaps a bonus to fight / diplomacy when evil outsiders or dragons are concerned.
Also what would Melnibonean plate armor be?

Thanks in advance,
Gino
Ryusage
01-13-07, 09:09 AM So why not create a new elf subrace?

Because thousands already exist. We don't need more elves.
gino
01-13-07, 09:17 AM Well then, do not participate in the thread.
Thank you.
Ninetails Demon
01-13-07, 12:45 PM There was a release by a third party company dealing with Moorcock's world. I don't have it on hand at the moment, but I'll give the title and company when I arrive at home tonight. They gave Melniboneans a strange bonus vision that allowed them to guage somebody's general wisdom score among various other little abilities. Another attribute was being able to sacrifice a stat point (I believe con) to summon a demon (basically a familiar). Melnibonean Plate was basically really fancy, ornate full plate (I think somewhere around 12k gp?
Where did you read that Moorcock's Melniboneans are basically elves by the way?
malykoth
01-13-07, 01:48 PM Chaosium, I think, was the name of the company.

It's more like they (the Melniboneans) are an eldritch, pre-human race of strangely alien beauty and culture. A lot of people would say that the same description can be easily applied to elves. Also, I believe the Melniboneans are supposed to be very similar in style and appearance to the Vadhagh race (in Moorcock's Chronicles of Corum series, another Eternal Champion). When the Vadhagh Prince Corum is transported to what appears to be our Earth in the 1600 or 1700's (it's been a while since I read the series), the local humans believe him to be an elf, along the lines of the sidhe.
chromeraven
01-13-07, 01:53 PM Dragon Lords of Melneboné, Chaosium Inc, d20 system compatible.

it says in one of the callouts that Melneboneans are basically decadent elves in other worlds. minus to con, bonus to int and wis, deep seeing (low light + sense general wisdom level of folk), can begin play with bound demons by losing a point to any stat, and various skill and save bonuses.

they're interesting, but you could just as easily give them drow stats and reflavor, and who would know the difference?
gino
01-14-07, 01:15 PM How would you then account for the Drows magical abilities and sunlight sensitivity?
That's a good idea though, but I had something specific in mind, and something low-level-ish as well.
I'll try to come up with something.

thanks in advance,
Gino
gino
01-15-07, 10:46 AM I finally had time to devote (waste?) to a surnumerary Elf subrace.

Melinibonean Elf Traits (Ex)

Melnibonean Elves possess the following racial traits.

* +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength.
* Medium size.
* A Melnibonean elf’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
* Low-light vision.
* Weapon Familiarity: Melnibonean Elves treat the rapier and the short sword as a simple weapons and the hand crossbow as a martial weapon.
* +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (the planes)
* +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive when dealing with Dragons, Outsiders, and monsters with the Evil subtype.
* Melnibonean Elves have access to the feat Poison Use. They may select it whenever they can select a feat.
* Automatic Languages: Melnibonean Elven. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Elven, Infernal.
* Favored Class: Binder.

So do you think it is balanced at all? (for no LA).
malykoth
01-15-07, 11:02 AM So do you think it is balanced at all? (for no LA).
It seems okay to me, but I would just go ahead and give them an LA. The Melniboneans didn't really have any racial weaknesses to STR or CON (that was just Elric).
gino
01-15-07, 11:13 AM Then, as it's been suggested, I could tweak the Drows - and I probably will - but I just wanted to have a LA+0 race.
The physical penalties are there to represent the enstranged decadent side of the race.

thanks,
Gino
Evandariel
05-20-07, 11:39 AM Old thread, but..

I did melniboneans as Drow, and changed weapon familiarity to bastard sword, also eliminated magical abilities and reduced darkvision to 60', and got rid of light sensitive. kept the rest of it as is, I believe.
ElberethSilverleaf
05-20-07, 12:32 PM Melniboneans are in no way shape or form elves.

I say this a lover of all things elves. If anything they are an eldritch form of humanity that ruled for thousands of years, eventually being supplanted by more mundane humanity. Sort of like "The Ancients" on the TV show Stargate Atlantis.

Here are some links that may clear things up for you
http://www.elricm.com/index.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/kraai/dandd/dandd_mm.htm
Shadowfax7
05-20-07, 01:05 PM * +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength.They were not inherently weak at all, that was a trait of Elric. I would rather see the stats listed above from Chaosium, rather than these.

* Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.This doesn't really fit them. How about +2 to Will saves as Drow with no Immunity to sleep effects ?

* Low-light vision.Why not add the detect Wis score ability as well.

* Weapon Familiarity: Melnibonean Elves treat the rapier and the short sword as a simple weapons and the hand crossbow as a martial weapon.I disagree with Short Sword and Hand Crossbow. What about Rapier and Longsword ? It doesn't have to be more than 2, they have other bonuses.

* +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (the planes)
* +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive when dealing with Dragons, Outsiders, and monsters with the Evil subtype.This is good, but brings them over the top vs. Elves at LA +0. Normally a +2 to 3 skills is reserved for a +1 LA (unless a small race such as a Halfling). Balance it by reducing other abilities/bonuses as suggested.

* Melnibonean Elves have access to the feat Poison Use. They may select it whenever they can select a feat.This doesn't belong at all.
Wolf72
05-20-07, 06:20 PM Here's my edited version:

• Melnibonéan (mel-NIB-oh-nay-en), medium humanoid, Dragon Lords of Melniboné, 3.5 update

Abilities: -2 con, +2 int, +2 wis

Skills: +2 to: Alchemy, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (million spheres), and Spellcraft (Spellcraft is always a class skill)
-2 to: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather information, Perform versus non-Melnibonéans

Low-light vision, can see twice as far as humans in poor light conditions

Spell-like ability: Detect magic as 1st level wizard (or spell caster level), usable 1+int mod/per day

+2 vs. Enchantment spells/effects

Favored class: Wizard

Automatic Languages: Low Melnibonéan, High Melnibonéan, Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, Terran

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gino 01-13-07, 08:57 AM	I remember having read somewhere in Moorcock's work that Melniboneans exist in other universes, and that in ours they are called "Elves". So why not create a new elf subrace? What would your take be on this subrace. I'd like them non-uber, LA+1 max,with perhaps a bonus to fight / diplomacy when evil outsiders or dragons are concerned. Also what would Melnibonean plate armor be? Thanks in advance, Gino
Ryusage 01-13-07, 09:09 AM	So why not create a new elf subrace? Because thousands already exist. We don't need more elves.
gino 01-13-07, 09:17 AM	Well then, do not participate in the thread. Thank you.
Ninetails Demon 01-13-07, 12:45 PM	There was a release by a third party company dealing with Moorcock's world. I don't have it on hand at the moment, but I'll give the title and company when I arrive at home tonight. They gave Melniboneans a strange bonus vision that allowed them to guage somebody's general wisdom score among various other little abilities. Another attribute was being able to sacrifice a stat point (I believe con) to summon a demon (basically a familiar). Melnibonean Plate was basically really fancy, ornate full plate (I think somewhere around 12k gp? Where did you read that Moorcock's Melniboneans are basically elves by the way?
malykoth 01-13-07, 01:48 PM	Chaosium, I think, was the name of the company. It's more like they (the Melniboneans) are an eldritch, pre-human race of strangely alien beauty and culture. A lot of people would say that the same description can be easily applied to elves. Also, I believe the Melniboneans are supposed to be very similar in style and appearance to the Vadhagh race (in Moorcock's Chronicles of Corum series, another Eternal Champion). When the Vadhagh Prince Corum is transported to what appears to be our Earth in the 1600 or 1700's (it's been a while since I read the series), the local humans believe him to be an elf, along the lines of the sidhe.
chromeraven 01-13-07, 01:53 PM	Dragon Lords of Melneboné, Chaosium Inc, d20 system compatible. it says in one of the callouts that Melneboneans are basically decadent elves in other worlds. minus to con, bonus to int and wis, deep seeing (low light + sense general wisdom level of folk), can begin play with bound demons by losing a point to any stat, and various skill and save bonuses. they're interesting, but you could just as easily give them drow stats and reflavor, and who would know the difference?
gino 01-14-07, 01:15 PM	How would you then account for the Drows magical abilities and sunlight sensitivity? That's a good idea though, but I had something specific in mind, and something low-level-ish as well. I'll try to come up with something. thanks in advance, Gino
gino 01-15-07, 10:46 AM	I finally had time to devote (waste?) to a surnumerary Elf subrace. Melinibonean Elf Traits (Ex) Melnibonean Elves possess the following racial traits. * +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength. * Medium size. * A Melnibonean elf’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. * Low-light vision. * Weapon Familiarity: Melnibonean Elves treat the rapier and the short sword as a simple weapons and the hand crossbow as a martial weapon. * +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (the planes) * +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive when dealing with Dragons, Outsiders, and monsters with the Evil subtype. * Melnibonean Elves have access to the feat Poison Use. They may select it whenever they can select a feat. * Automatic Languages: Melnibonean Elven. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Elven, Infernal. * Favored Class: Binder. So do you think it is balanced at all? (for no LA).
malykoth 01-15-07, 11:02 AM	So do you think it is balanced at all? (for no LA). It seems okay to me, but I would just go ahead and give them an LA. The Melniboneans didn't really have any racial weaknesses to STR or CON (that was just Elric).
gino 01-15-07, 11:13 AM	Then, as it's been suggested, I could tweak the Drows - and I probably will - but I just wanted to have a LA+0 race. The physical penalties are there to represent the enstranged decadent side of the race. thanks, Gino
Evandariel 05-20-07, 11:39 AM	Old thread, but.. I did melniboneans as Drow, and changed weapon familiarity to bastard sword, also eliminated magical abilities and reduced darkvision to 60', and got rid of light sensitive. kept the rest of it as is, I believe.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-20-07, 12:32 PM	Melniboneans are in no way shape or form elves. I say this a lover of all things elves. If anything they are an eldritch form of humanity that ruled for thousands of years, eventually being supplanted by more mundane humanity. Sort of like "The Ancients" on the TV show Stargate Atlantis. Here are some links that may clear things up for you http://www.elricm.com/index.htm http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/kraai/dandd/dandd_mm.htm
Shadowfax7 05-20-07, 01:05 PM	* +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength.They were not inherently weak at all, that was a trait of Elric. I would rather see the stats listed above from Chaosium, rather than these. * Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.This doesn't really fit them. How about +2 to Will saves as Drow with no Immunity to sleep effects ? * Low-light vision.Why not add the detect Wis score ability as well. * Weapon Familiarity: Melnibonean Elves treat the rapier and the short sword as a simple weapons and the hand crossbow as a martial weapon.I disagree with Short Sword and Hand Crossbow. What about Rapier and Longsword ? It doesn't have to be more than 2, they have other bonuses. * +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (the planes) * +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive when dealing with Dragons, Outsiders, and monsters with the Evil subtype.This is good, but brings them over the top vs. Elves at LA +0. Normally a +2 to 3 skills is reserved for a +1 LA (unless a small race such as a Halfling). Balance it by reducing other abilities/bonuses as suggested. * Melnibonean Elves have access to the feat Poison Use. They may select it whenever they can select a feat.This doesn't belong at all.
Wolf72 05-20-07, 06:20 PM	Here's my edited version: • Melnibonéan (mel-NIB-oh-nay-en), medium humanoid, Dragon Lords of Melniboné, 3.5 update Abilities: -2 con, +2 int, +2 wis Skills: +2 to: Alchemy, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (million spheres), and Spellcraft (Spellcraft is always a class skill) -2 to: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather information, Perform versus non-Melnibonéans Low-light vision, can see twice as far as humans in poor light conditions Spell-like ability: Detect magic as 1st level wizard (or spell caster level), usable 1+int mod/per day +2 vs. Enchantment spells/effects Favored class: Wizard Automatic Languages: Low Melnibonéan, High Melnibonéan, Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, Terran