Minimum skill points for Humans [Archive] - Wizards Community

Minimum skill points for Humans [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
carbonrodney
07-19-07, 09:03 AM If a human fighter has 6 or less int... Does he get 4 ranks at 1st and 1 per level thereafter or does he have 8 at first and 2 per level thereafter?
PHB: "A character gets 4 skill points at 1st level, even if he or she has an intelligence penalty. A human gets 4 bonus skill points at 1st level"

There are many ways to argue this. Essentially it's (maybe) increasing the minimum skill points per level. I have been looking for a quote from one of the texts. Anyone know?
Morwen
07-19-07, 09:07 AM It gets the 4 bonus skill points on top of the skill points it gets from a high/low Int. So the correct answer is 8 and 2.
RobbyPants
07-19-07, 09:07 AM I might be wrong, but I think he'd only get 4, not 8.

EDIT:
Ninja'ed. Although, according to Morwen, I'm wrong (and I very well might be :))
carbonrodney
07-19-07, 09:22 AM Thanks for the quick reply guys!

Cool. Do you reckon either of you could back that up with quote / clear explanation.
RobbyPants
07-19-07, 09:49 AM Thanks for the quick reply guys!

Cool. Do you reckon either of you could back that up with quote / clear explanation.
I'll do the best I can with the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) (as I don't have my books here).

Per the SRD on Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#intelligenceInt):
"The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)"

Per the SRD on humans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans):
"4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level."

Now, the trick is figuring out which is applied first. I couldn't find anything in the SRD on this. I know there's a section in the PHB for exactly how you level a character. Now, because you handle skill points after ability scores and race, I tend to think it works a follows:

Get your 8 skill points from fighter at level 1
Add in 4 for human (12 total)
Subtract off 8 for -2 Int mod (to a minimum of 4).

Again, I could be wrong, because the crux of this whole thing is whether step 2 or step 3 above comes first. That's the quote I'm having trouble finding. ;)
JadeSpider9643
07-19-07, 11:58 AM the base rule (PHB pg58) is that you gain skill points according to your INT score. since humans do not gain their bonus skill points thru modification of the INT score, it instead is a seperate bonus.

Humans determine the regular number of skills they get each level based on INT, and then add 1 to that because they're human. Only the first part has the "minimum 1 per level", the human bonus is an addition to that equation, not part of it.
Salla
07-19-07, 12:34 PM In general, in D&D, if no order of mathematical operations is specified, you perform them in the order that is most beneficial to the character in question. In this case, it's applying the human bonus skill points after the INT penalty has bottomed out his skill points at 1.

Similarly, if a character is (for whatever reason) vulnerable to fire, and has a ring of fire resistance, you apply the resistance first, then the vulnerability, resulting in less damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
carbonrodney 07-19-07, 09:03 AM	If a human fighter has 6 or less int... Does he get 4 ranks at 1st and 1 per level thereafter or does he have 8 at first and 2 per level thereafter? PHB: "A character gets 4 skill points at 1st level, even if he or she has an intelligence penalty. A human gets 4 bonus skill points at 1st level" There are many ways to argue this. Essentially it's (maybe) increasing the minimum skill points per level. I have been looking for a quote from one of the texts. Anyone know?
Morwen 07-19-07, 09:07 AM	It gets the 4 bonus skill points on top of the skill points it gets from a high/low Int. So the correct answer is 8 and 2.
RobbyPants 07-19-07, 09:07 AM	I might be wrong, but I think he'd only get 4, not 8. EDIT: Ninja'ed. Although, according to Morwen, I'm wrong (and I very well might be :))
carbonrodney 07-19-07, 09:22 AM	Thanks for the quick reply guys! Cool. Do you reckon either of you could back that up with quote / clear explanation.
RobbyPants 07-19-07, 09:49 AM	Thanks for the quick reply guys! Cool. Do you reckon either of you could back that up with quote / clear explanation. I'll do the best I can with the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) (as I don't have my books here). Per the SRD on Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#intelligenceInt): "The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)" Per the SRD on humans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans): "4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level." Now, the trick is figuring out which is applied first. I couldn't find anything in the SRD on this. I know there's a section in the PHB for exactly how you level a character. Now, because you handle skill points after ability scores and race, I tend to think it works a follows: Get your 8 skill points from fighter at level 1 Add in 4 for human (12 total) Subtract off 8 for -2 Int mod (to a minimum of 4). Again, I could be wrong, because the crux of this whole thing is whether step 2 or step 3 above comes first. That's the quote I'm having trouble finding. ;)
JadeSpider9643 07-19-07, 11:58 AM	the base rule (PHB pg58) is that you gain skill points according to your INT score. since humans do not gain their bonus skill points thru modification of the INT score, it instead is a seperate bonus. Humans determine the regular number of skills they get each level based on INT, and then add 1 to that because they're human. Only the first part has the "minimum 1 per level", the human bonus is an addition to that equation, not part of it.
Salla 07-19-07, 12:34 PM	In general, in D&D, if no order of mathematical operations is specified, you perform them in the order that is most beneficial to the character in question. In this case, it's applying the human bonus skill points after the INT penalty has bottomed out his skill points at 1. Similarly, if a character is (for whatever reason) vulnerable to fire, and has a ring of fire resistance, you apply the resistance first, then the vulnerability, resulting in less damage.