Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rampant 06-08-07, 03:49 AM	Ok I'm trying to put together a campeign world. The idea is that Minotaurs are the dominant race. They have built the largest and most enduring empire, but don't think for a minute that they are any less savage than their more primitive cousins in the Monster manuel. The three big requirements are: 1. Base stats that provide a low to non-existant LA, while still maintaining some of that Minotaur flavor. 2. An ability to differenciate the four big tribes. Feat, paragon classes, special racial abilities, class feature substitutions, SOMETHING! 3. A way to improve the minotaur aspect in some maner. Previous attempts have yeilded less than spectacular results, so I'm starting from scratch, hopefully with some help I can get this to work. THe four Tribes are Stonehoof - The most powerful hunters come from this tribe. Primarily they live in the northern part of the continent, especially the coastal mountain range. Many villages are still hunter/gatherer level with farming towns forming hubs and reststops on the migration patterns. Tribal trait, out of each generation several Stonehoof are born with four-legged tauric bodies. Bloodscythe - A Southern dweeling tribe, the runoff from the wastelands has altered them somewhat. Madness is common, but their legendary berzerk rage makes them usefull and highly sought allies. Tribal trait furious rages that provide not strength but manic speed, as well as bony growth on their bodies. Duskhide - Hailing from the lush forests of the east Duskhides are marvellous cooks, artists, scribes, and spies. Unofficial agents of the empire the Duskhide work to maintain order in a civilization built on autonomy. Tribal trait Duskhides are tied closely to the moon cults rather than the older nature based religions, it is said that many Duskhides posses unnatural abilities that let them go anywhere unnoticed. Bonereavers - Lords of the western wastelands the Bonereavers scavenge the ancient battlegrounds for parts and knowledge to further their arts. Generations of direct exposure to the wasteland has warped their bodies, but left their minds untouced. To hide their hideous visages from the other tribes they wear elaborate masks, and armor. Tribal trait twisted and malformed exteriors. Current base (based off Fake healer's bovan minotaurs, thanks dude): +4 str -2 wis Speed 30 ft Medium (250-350 lbs.) Powerful Build- The physical stature of a Bovan Minotaur lets her function in many ways as if she were one size category larger. Whenever a Bovan minotaur is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Bovan Minotaur is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to her. A Bovan Minotaur is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Bovan Minotaur can use weapons designed for a a creature one size larger without penalty. However, her space and reach remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Darkvision 60 ft +2 racial modifier to Survival checks +1 racial modifier to Spot, search, and listen checks Secondary natural weapon- Gore (1d6+ .5 strength bonus) at -5 attack modifier. Languages: Minotaur, Common Bonus: Elven, Dwarven, Draconic, Handsign, Clickspeak LA +1 Favored class - Bloodscythe (barbarian), Stonehoof (ranger), Bonereaver (Artificer), Duskhide (???) Stonehoof Tauric [racial: Stonehoof Minotaur] Prequesites: Stonehoof Minotaur, Level 1 Benefits: You are a Stonehoof Tauric, you were one of several children of your generation to be born with an elongated spine and a second set of legs. You become a large (long, you occupy a 5ft by 10ft space) creature, losing Powerful build in the process. Your horns do 1d8 base damage instead of 1d6. You gain +15 to your base speed. You take a -4 on climb checks, but gain +4 on balance checks and running long jump checks, and +4 to resist bullrush and trip attempts. You are considered to have the mounted combat feat treating yourself as your own mount, and may purchase any feat with mounted combat as a prequisite without purchasing any ride ranks the feat may require. Your body requires barding instead of normal armor. Your carrying capacity as well as your own weight increase by a factor of 1.5. You do not gain the reach of a large creature. Paragon Progression by tribe, thank you maraxus. Stonehoof 1d8 HD, Full BAB, 4+Int skills (List like Ranger), All good saves. 1. Improved scent, +2 Spot/Search/Listen 2. Tirelessness 3. Detect Traces 3/day Improved scent: Doubles the range of the scent ability (asuming your Minotaurs have it. Else, scent works. Tirelessness: No damage from forced marches. Detect Traces: (Sp) By concentrating on his surroundings, the Stonhoof can see what creatures passed the a cone shaped 60 ft emanation in front of him. This effect lasts as long as he concentrates up to 1 Minute per level. The information given about a subject is the direction it moved, the size and movement method (fly, burrow, land etc.) used. The Traces of creatures vanish after 1 day per Hit-Die of that creature. This counts as a 2nd level spell-effect. Duskhide d8, medium BAB, 4+Int skills (List like rogue), Good reflex save 1: Spell-likes. 2 Spellpoints 2: 5 Spellpoints 3: 9 Spellpoints Spell-likes: (Sp) At every level, the Duskhide can choose one spell he can furthermore use as a spell-like ability. This spell-like abilities are not limited by independant uses per day. Instead the Duskhide gains a number of Spellpoints each day and every use of a Spell-like ability uses one (unless mentioned otherwise) point. The save DCs are Charisma based, if they allow any save. The caster level is equall to half the Minotaur's character level (minimum 1). The higher spell-likes can only be choosen on second and third or even on thrird level only. List of Spell-likes: Invisibility, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self, Nondetection, Moon Beam (FRCS), False Vision (Level 2+), See invisibility (Level 2+), Gaserous Form (Level 2+), Silence (Level 2+), Moonblade (FRCS, Level 2+), Dimension Door (Level 3), Freedom of Movement (Level 3), Etheral Jaunt (Level 3, requires 2 Spellpoints per use), Moonpath (FRCS, Level 3, requires 2 Spellpoints per use).
Armoracia Rusticana 06-08-07, 04:40 AM	Try Minotaur of Krynn (Dragonlance CS) as base minotaur
rampant 06-08-07, 04:51 AM	I tried that already. The mental drops just don't work here. And the sailing skill bonuses really don't work for a race whose navy consists of fishing rafts and a few canoes. About the onlything even remotely usable is the horns. So Gore Natural attack 1d6 + str modifier piercing damage when used as a Primary attack, 1d6 + 1/2 str modifier when used as a secondary natural attack.
Fake Healer 06-08-07, 09:40 AM	Bovan Minotaurs Medium Monstrous Humanoid +4 strength, -2 wisdom Speed-30ft., cannot run more than 3x their movement rate a round.(I did this so it stays around like this instead of being feat-ed away) Medium (6’-7’tall, 250-350 lbs.) Powerful Build- The physical stature of a Bovan Minotaur lets her function in many ways as if she were one size category larger. Whenever a Bovan minotaur is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Bovan Minotaur is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to her. A Bovan Minotaur is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Bovan Minotaur can use weapons designed for a a creature one size larger without penalty. However, her space and reach remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. +2 racial modifier to skill checks involving stone. Bovan are extremely well-versed in stone working. +2 racial modifier to craft checks involving wood. Bovan are expert wood workers and have an affinity for making, and appraising items made of wood. Instinctual charge- Bovan do not suffer an armor class penalty, due to charging, from the target of the charge. They do however incur the typical armor class penalties from other opponents. Weapon proficiency- Great axe, Battle axe and Hand axe. All Bovan are trained, from a calf, in the use of certain axes. Secondary natural weapon- Gore (1d6+ .5 strength bonus) at -5 attack modifier. Bovan minotaurs find it distasteful to use their horns in such a manner. Automatic languages- Common, Giant. Bonus languages- Dwarven, Gnomish, Terran, Elvish, and Draconic. Favored class- Fighter Level Adjustment- +1 This is one I made for my campaign and is working well. For flavor differences you could adjust the Racial skill bonuses to appropriate stuff. Enjoy. FH
rampant 06-08-07, 03:49 PM	Thanks but the real problem lies in the differences between the tribes. How do I make some Stonehoofs tuaric without increasing the LA? What is the best way to give the Bloodsythes their manic speed surges? What in game effects does the Bonereavers' mutations have? How do I present the moon based supernatural abilities of the Duskhide infiltrators?
Rerecros 06-08-07, 04:30 PM	making the stone hoofs tauric is easy since the base already has powerful build. Just take away powerful build, make them large, and deny them the extra reach. Compaired to the base, they will have difficulty entering small spaces and can be more easily flanked, and just give a +10' speed bonus to compensate. For the blood scythes, give them the xeph's burst ability Burst (Su): Three times per day, a xeph can put on a burst of speed to increase her speed by 10 feet, plus 10 feet per four character levels beyond 1st, to a maximum increase of 30 feet at 9th character level and higher. These bursts of speed are considered a competence bonus to the xeph’s base speed. A burst of speed lasts 3 rounds. Be more specific with the Bonereaver's mutations. Are they something like this (not for the squeamish) http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=31701&in_page_id=2
rampant 06-08-07, 04:58 PM	Not really the mutations are more skin based. Grey dry seeming skin, pulled a little too tight aropund the face. Maybe not quite enough flesh all around, giving them a gaunt decayed look. Current base: +4 str -2 wis Speed 30 ft Medium (250-350 lbs.) Powerful Build- The physical stature of a Bovan Minotaur lets her function in many ways as if she were one size category larger. Whenever a Bovan minotaur is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Bovan Minotaur is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to her. A Bovan Minotaur is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Bovan Minotaur can use weapons designed for a a creature one size larger without penalty. However, her space and reach remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Darkvision 60 ft +2 racial modifier to Survival checks +1 racial modifier to Spot, search, and listen checks Secondary natural weapon- Gore (1d6+ .5 strength bonus) at -5 attack modifier. LA +1 Favored class - Bloodscythe (barbarian), Stonehoof (ranger), Bonereaver (???), Duskhide (???) Stonehoof Titan [racial: Stonehoof Minotaur] Prequesites: Stonehoof Minotaur, Level 1 Benefits: You are a Stonehoof Tauric, you were one of several children of your generation to be born with an elongated spine and a second set of legs. You become a large (long, you occupy a 5ft by 10ft space) creature, losing Powerful build in the process. Your horns do 1d8 base damage instead of 1d6. You gain +15 to your base speed. You take a -4 on climb checks, but gain +4 on balance checks and running long jump checks, and +4 to resist bullrush and trip attempts. You are considered to have the mounted combat feat treating yourself as your own mount, and may purchase any feat with mounted combat as a prequisite without purchasing any ride ranks the feat may require. Your body requires barding instead of normal armor. Your carrying capacity as well as your own weight increase by a factor of 1.5. You do not gain the reach of a large creature. well how's this look? I think maybe a feat would be the way to go with the stone hoof. But the other three are giving me problems. Maybe the Bloodscythes should get a substitution feature for any sort of rage/fury class feature? The Bonereavers are hard to nail down. But I remember there being an article on moon worshipping rouges in dragon somewhere, maybe I should look there?
Maraxus 06-09-07, 07:35 AM	I think 3 level "Paragon" classes (not about being paragon, just 3 level requirering the right birth-location and without multiclassing-restrictions). Stonehoof 1d8 HD, Full BAB, 4+Int skills (List like Ranger), All good saves. 1. Improved scent, +2 Spot/Search/Listen 2. Tirelessness 3. Detect Traces 3/day Improved scent: Doubles the range of the scent ability (asuming your Minotaurs have it. Else, scent works. Tirelessness: No damage from forced marches. Detect Traces: (Sp) By concentrating on his surroundings, the Stonhoof can see what creatures passed the a cone shaped 60 ft emanation in front of him. This effect lasts as long as he concentrates up to 1 Minute per level. The information given about a subject is the direction it moved, the size and movement method (fly, burrow, land etc.) used. The Traces of creatures vanish after 1 day per Hit-Die of that creature. This counts as a 2nd level spell-effect. Bloodscythe d12 HD, Medium BAB, 2+Int Skills (Barbarien List), Good Fort save 1: Speed +5, Moments of Madness 2: Mad Rage 3: Speed +10, True Madness Speed: The base Land speed imroves by 5ft and another 5 ft at Level 3. Moments of Madness: (Ex) Whenever the Bloodscythe makes a Will save, Wisdom check or Wisdom-based skill check, there is a 20% chance his Madness overcomes him for 1 Minute, gaining a -6 penalty to Wisdom and Intelligence (minimum 1) and a +6 bonus to Will-saves (for a net bonus to Will saves of +3). The effect starts before the roll that triggert it. Mad Rage: (Ex) The Bloodscythe can fall into Mad Rage with a DC 10 Wisdom check (taking a move action). As a second method mode, when wounded for more then 10% of his hit points in one round, he falls into this rage automaticly. He can try a DC 10 Will save to suppress this effect. The Mad rage lasts for 3+Con modifier rounds in which the Minotaur can make pounce attacks and counts as hasted. In any round he hits with a weapon and his horns, he can rent the target for an additional 2d8+Strength bonus damage. While in Mad rage, the Minotaur prefers living, bleeding opponents over unliving (like construct). He is known to go berzerk on opponents, even tearing them into pieces after striking them down: He won't change his target once he has engaged it in melee, if possible at all. The Bloodscythe can overcome these two impulses with a DC 20 Will save with the following modifiers: +/-5 if the target wounded him for more then 10% of his Hitpoints (-5 to attack constructs/undeads that wounded him in the presense of living opponents, +5 to swich from a target that wounded him), -5 on checks to swich from a target for every turn it is unconcious or dead. True Madness: The Bloodscythe learns to controll his Madness: He gains the ability to activate it as an immediate action and it won't trigger unwanted. Duskhide d8, medium BAB, 4+Int skills (List like rogue), one good save (choosen on first level) 1: Spell-likes. 2 Spellpoints 2: 5 Spellpoints 3: 9 Spellpoints Spell-likes: (Sp) At every level, the Duskhide can choose one spell he can furthermore use as a spell-like ability. This spell-like abilities are not limited by independant uses per day. Instead the Duskhide gains a number of Spellpoints each day and every use of a Spell-like ability uses one (unless mentioned otherwise) point. The save DCs are Charisma based, if they allow any save. The caster level is equall to half the Minotaur's character level (minimum 1). The higher spell-likes can only be choosen on second and third or even on thrird level only. List of Spell-likes: Invisibility, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self, Nondetection, Moon Beam (FRCS), False Vision (Level 2+), See invisibility (Level 2+), Gaserous Form (Level 2+), Silence (Level 2+), Moonblade (FRCS, Level 2+), Dimension Door (Level 3), Freedom of Movement (Level 3), Etheral Jaunt (Level 3, requires 2 Spellpoints per use), Moonpath (FRCS, Level 3, requires 2 Spellpoints per use). Bonereaver d10 HD, bad BAB, 4+Int skills (Fighter + Knowledge (Architecture and engineering, Dungeoneering, Geography, History and Nature)), Good Fort save. Level 1: Str +2, Dex -2, horrid visage (minor shaken) Level 2: Natural Armor +1, Speed -5 ft, bio resistence +2, horrid visage (shaken) Level 3: Str +4, Natural Armor +2, Speed -10 ft, bio resistence +4, horrid visage (frightened) Strength, Dexterity, Natural Armor, Speed, Bio resistence: The list shows the accumulated values. Bio resistence: (Ex) The Bonereaver get's this value as a bonus on saves against poisons and disease. Horrid visage: (Ex) When his face is exposed other creatures seeing the Bonereaver must make a will save or suffer fear effects as long as they can see him. At first level the victim takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Characters immun to being shaken are immune to this minor version of it, too. At second level, the horid visage shakens victims that fail the save (with the full -2 penalty). At third level it frightens those that fail the save. The DC of this ability is 10+Charisma bonus plus a modifier based on the victim's race: Minotaurs not of the Bonereaver tribe: +4 Humanoids: +3 Other monsterous Humanoids, Giants, Animals: +2 Else: +0 A victim that saves can't get effected by the same Horrid visage again for 24 hours. Being exposed to such a look every day makes a creature resistent to it in 10 days. A victim that fails it's save can try again every minute. Creatures with the Frightfull Presence special ability are immune to Horrid visage, too.
rampant 06-09-07, 01:04 PM	Ok then Over I like, but a couple questions. Where did you get tirelessness for the Stonehoof? When you say detect traces lasts for one day per hit die, whose hitdie? also how much detail does it give about the creatures being tracked. Also Maybe since the ability can be used three times per day, you could make it hours per hitdice. On the bloodscythe the moment of madness and true madness effects seem a tad harsh. I really don't want to drop scores, especially not intelligence. Also let me get this straight if the blood scythe chooses to enter its fury, its a move action, but if its triggered by damage its Immediate? Also paart about target preferance and the will saves needs some cleaning up. Do They prefer living targets or just anything that moves, are they going to ignore zombies or golems? Maybe the DC reductions should be based on turns the target has taken without inflicting damage to the Minotaur. I like the spell point deal you got going with Duskhide. Questions: 1.) do you get extra spell points for a high score? If a DC gets involved what ability sets it? Do all the abilities cost 1 point unless noted? What determines caster level? The bone reaver mutations look awesome, but the whole choose from a list deal isn't what I'm going for. The bonereavers have lived in the wastelands so long dramatic mutaions have died down, to the one or two big changes that define the difference between Bonereavers and the rest of the tribes. I need a horrid visage type ability, and bio-rejection represents their internal mutations perfectly i feel. Thank you so much Maraxus, and I hope to hear back, I think You've nailed this one overall, but I need to talk about the execution in a few places.
Maraxus 06-09-07, 04:38 PM	Ok then Over I like, but a couple questions. Where did you get tirelessness for the Stonehoof? Well, the concept left some space and for normadic hunters this looked cool. When you say detect traces lasts for one day per hit die, whose hitdie? also how much detail does it give about the creatures being tracked. Also Maybe since the ability can be used three times per day, you could make it hours per hitdice. The victims hit dies. I modeled this mostly after those "Detect xyz" spells and those where also meant to be the reference int the thinks I did not mention. Updated. On the bloodscythe the moment of madness and true madness effects seem a tad harsh. I really don't want to drop scores, especially not intelligence. Also let me get this straight if the blood scythe chooses to enter its fury, its a move action, but if its triggered by damage its Immediate? Also paart about target preferance and the will saves needs some cleaning up. Do They prefer living targets or just anything that moves, are they going to ignore zombies or golems? Maybe the DC reductions should be based on turns the target has taken without inflicting damage to the Minotaur. Okay, made them less mad. ;) The rage got reworded a bit. It is supprisingly, how hard it is to define "Angry bloodthirsty killing mashine" with rules. :) I like the spell point deal you got going with Duskhide. Questions: 1.) do you get extra spell points for a high score? If a DC gets involved what ability sets it? Do all the abilities cost 1 point unless noted? What determines caster level? 1. No, fix number, they are definitly not enough that one yould make Psion-like (or less) bonus points. 2. Good questions. For spell-likes Cha is pretty standard. Ony 2 of this list involve saves anyway. Caster level ... Since it grands spell-like abilities I have no problem to base them on character level. Looking at it again, I'm not sure, this class is not overpowering when taken early. The bone reaver mutations look awesome, but the whole choose from a list deal isn't what I'm going for. The bonereavers have lived in the wastelands so long dramatic mutaions have died down, to the one or two big changes that define the difference between Bonereavers and the rest of the tribes. I need a horrid visage type ability, and bio-rejection represents their internal mutations perfectly i feel. Thank you so much Maraxus, and I hope to hear back, I think You've nailed this one overall, but I need to talk about the execution in a few places. Bone reaver choise-reduced and added a horrid visage. About the first post: Duskhides look somewhat Bardic to me ... just ... without the music. Cleric of Moon and Trickery would work very good, too - if you create an apropriate god ... Somewhat sorcerer, somewhat rogue ...
rampant 06-09-07, 05:50 PM	Ok stonehoof and duskhide work, i don't think the spell-like abilities are a problem balance wise. Its not Like a bard, ninja, or beguiler couldn't do much the same sort of things. Ok I really have an issue with the Moment of madness ability on the Bloodscythes, but the speed and mad rage work fine, I'd like to put a limit on the number of times per day they can use made rage though. Maybe let them burn uses of any other rage abilities to activate it? Next the Bone reavers. I like the horrid visage, and bio resistance, not a fan of the bulking up. I think I've been unclear on this. They are scavengers, I can see a bit of natural armor from the thick leathery skin, but no to the speed drops and strength ups. Also maybe ditch the part about growing resistant after ten days. As to a dusk hide diety, hmmmmm I'll keep that on the back burner.