Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kouk 08-16-07, 11:28 PM	First, I realize there are probably threads about this, but I can't seem to locate them with the Search tool. I recently have gotten a player who is interested in playing a Goliath melee-type. Specifically Swordsage or Warblade, but I'm not sure where he will end up besides a heavy melee character. I have never used or even seen a Goliath character in a campaign to date. My main concern as I look at the Goliath race, is that it seems to me by looking at it, that it is worth a bit more than the +1 LA stipulated for it. The Goliath gets a +4 STR, +2 CON, and -2 Dex. They are Medium, but count as Large whenever it would suit them (for Bull Rushes, Grapples, being eaten alive, etc.) They can use Large-Sized Weapons with no penalty (but no extra reach, because they are Medium). They can make Jump checks as if they always had a running start, and can Accelerated Climb without penalty. Goliaths are Monstrous Humanoids, and get Darkvision because of it. In my head, this adds up to about a +1.5 LA, but that is not possible in the rules. The main part I am not sure about, is the Monstrous Humanoid type. I know that being a Monstrous Humanoid would prevent many low level spells from affecting a Goliath character, such as Charm Person, Hold Person, Dominate Person, Ghoul Touch, Daze, and Enlarge Person. I am not sure of the other ramifications of the Monstrous Humanoid subtype, such as other spells or abilities that may or may not function on a player of a Monstrous Humanoid type. I can only think of Enlarge Person being the only "beneficial" spell that a Monstrous Humanoid would be denied, but it would also have perfect defense against those other spells I listed, and those are Core only spells (my campaign makes use of almost any spell from any book). I am also not sure about what monster special abilities rely on targeting Humanoids specifically (not Monstrous Humanoids), as I never really paid much attention to the specifics of what abilities could work on Monstrous Humanoids. Basically, I am wondering if being a Monstrous Humanoid is a benefit or a detriment to a Player Character? Also, what detriments does a Goliath have in general, (other than having trouble fitting through most doors)? I imagine most people who choose the race are not looking to take archer or full spellcaster classes. Thanks.
runestar 08-17-07, 12:01 AM	Their bonuses would arguably place them on the higher side of the LA+1 scale, but there is clearly still a long way to go before they qualify as being LA+2. I would allow them as is. I am also not sure about what monster special abilities rely on targeting Humanoids specifically (not Monstrous Humanoids), as I never really paid much attention to the specifics of what abilities could work on Monstrous Humanoids. There aren't many I am aware of. People using charm person/hold person (mainly lower lv spellcasters) would not be able to affect the goliath. I think the Nymph's gaze only affects humanoids as well. In general, I don't think the advantages/disadvantages are really all that significant.
Staple 08-17-07, 01:23 AM	The weird thing is, I've heard people complaining that Goliath doesn't get enough for a +1 LA. I guess that's what I get for browsing the Character Optimization boards. I wouldn't worry about it too much. As a whole, all Goliath has going for it is Powerful Build, and being a Monstrous Humanoid isn't nearly as good as being, say an Outsider via Tiefling or Aasimar. I've actually played as a Monstrous Humanoid before, and it's something that almost never comes up.
AtsuiShoto 08-17-07, 02:33 AM	I count Darkvision as a very nice feature, in addition to the +4 Strength and Powerful Build that already make this race nigh-perfect for a special-tactics build (tripping, bull-rushing, etc). Oh, and don't forget the Mountain Rage ability from the Goliath barbarian substitution level! That extra reach can be downright nasty, if used correctly. So, on the whole, I find I have to agree with the vast majority and say that the Goliath is on the high end of the +1 LA power spectrum.
Orchomenos 08-17-07, 09:34 AM	The worse of that is beside the +1 LA, they can make decent spellcasters, since they have no malus on any mental stat. :monk: :fight!: :mage: but no :elf:
AtsuiShoto 08-17-07, 02:50 PM	Yeah, I actually used to think Goliaths were above par BEFORE I noticed that their racial subtype gives them Darkvision. Personally, I think that whole "every monstrous humanoid always gets Darkvision" concept is bogus. I mean, let's say we've made a bird-man race that thrives on sunlight. With its anthropomorphic form, but strongly animalistic attributes, surely it should be a Monstrous Humanoid, right? But why, oh why, would it have darkvision by default?!