Mountain Rage: Space question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mountain Rage: Space question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bfiggins
10-25-07, 03:32 AM When a Goliath Barbarian goes into a Mountain Rage, his size increases to Large, and his space increases to 10 ft.

What happens if the Goliath doesn't have room on the battlemat to grow to Large size? It seems strange to think that a Goliath surrounded by kobolds couldn't hulk up! Should we treat it like Enlarge Person? An opposed Strength check against each kobold/wall/etc.? Push them back if he wins? What if he fails, should the rage be wasted?

Opinions!
Tordak
10-25-07, 08:46 AM I think you whould follow the lines of the Enlarge person spell for close area. Use Overrun if there's creature occupying the square you now should be occupying. If he looses, you could suppose the opponents react properly and have iniated a grapple or use the overrun rules as if the attacking creatures were the opponents (they could trip him and stuff), but that's a tricky question. I think there's a faq on something similar, like 'someone steps in a dead opponent square and the opponent is raised back, then what happens?'. Maybe that faq could help. However the rage should not be wasted if he fails.
Orenmir
10-25-07, 11:18 AM RAW, more than one person/creature can occupy the same space at the same time. Usually, they are grappling or moving by. In your case, the kobolds simply occupy the same space as the Goliath. They are, in fact, too close for melee combat; so, if they Kobolds want to attack, they will need to take a 5' step out of the Goliath's space and then attack. Same would go for the Goliath.
Bahumut
10-25-07, 11:20 AM actually, a creature can occupy the same space as a creature 2 sizes bigger. so when you mountain rage and become large, the kobolds can stay in their places. and stab at your ankles =D
bfiggins
10-25-07, 12:51 PM actually, a creature can occupy the same space as a creature 2 sizes bigger. so when you mountain rage and become large, the kobolds can stay in their places. and stab at your ankles =D

Ok, bad example. Replace 'em with a horde of zombies, because that's what we're actually dealing with lately.
Orenmir
10-25-07, 01:09 PM If by "horde" you mean that every square is occupied by a zombie in the Goliath's general vaciniy..... Well, it just gets complicated. Just remember these two rules:

1. Creatures/people can occupy the same space.
2. Creatures/people can't attack if their space is being shared by another whose size is the same or one category away from them.

The zombies will need to do some manuvering before they can attack the Goliath.

I would, however, houserule that the zombies occupying the same space as the Goliath could go ahead with a grapple attempt (good luck); but, if they fail, they would get pushed back into another zombie's space.

(What a great time for Great Cleave and Swinging Strike.)
bfiggins
10-25-07, 01:33 PM Cool. We'll figure it out as we go - at least the answer wasn't just "Well, he can't rage!" We're in an undead-centric campaign, and we regularly fight 100-200 zombies at a time.

Where's Swinging Strike? I haven't seen that one.
Tordak
10-25-07, 02:14 PM 1. Creatures/people can occupy the same space.
2. Creatures/people can't attack if their space is being shared by another whose size is the same or one category away from them.

(What a great time for Great Cleave and Swinging Strike.)

I suppose that also means the Goliath will have to move to be able to attack, or does it only apply if you smaller and occupying the square of a creature 1 size categorie bigger?
kreesteeyan
10-25-07, 02:24 PM @bfiggins
You can use the mob rules from DMG2 when dealing with that kind of crowd.
Orenmir
10-25-07, 02:50 PM Where's Swinging Strike? I haven't seen that one.

I think I'm calling it by an incorrect name; but, it's the ability to attack multiple squares at once. War Hulk can do it, and I think there are some other ways to attain it. Sorry, I don't remember the name or sources. :(

I suppose that also means the Goliath will have to move to be able to attack, or does it only apply if you smaller and occupying the square of a creature 1 size categorie bigger?

Size is irrelevant (unless you are attacking something 2 sizes larger than yourself). In the case of this "horde," some houseruling may need to be done to give the Goliath the ability to attack at all. RAW, he would be overrun with zombies and unable to fight (which is realistic, IMO).

You can use the mob rules from DMG2 when dealing with that kind of crowd.

Indeed the best option.
ToastedAmphibian
10-25-07, 05:37 PM Well, with mountain rage he dosnt really get THAT much bigger, he just somehow takes up more space on the mat, without taking up more space in his armor.

They really didnt think that ability out all the way when they made it. A creature that fits in a 5ft by 5ft square gets a few inches bigger, and suddenly takes up a 10ft by 10ft square but still fits in his armor that takes up only a small portion of a 5ft by 5ft square. Huh?

You would probably be better off if you change mountain rage to say "A creature in mountain rage gains +2 str and gains the reach of a creature one size category larger, but suffers the size penalties of a creature of that size (-1 attack and damage rolls). This is in addition to the benifits and penalties of a normal rage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bfiggins 10-25-07, 03:32 AM	When a Goliath Barbarian goes into a Mountain Rage, his size increases to Large, and his space increases to 10 ft. What happens if the Goliath doesn't have room on the battlemat to grow to Large size? It seems strange to think that a Goliath surrounded by kobolds couldn't hulk up! Should we treat it like Enlarge Person? An opposed Strength check against each kobold/wall/etc.? Push them back if he wins? What if he fails, should the rage be wasted? Opinions!
Tordak 10-25-07, 08:46 AM	I think you whould follow the lines of the Enlarge person spell for close area. Use Overrun if there's creature occupying the square you now should be occupying. If he looses, you could suppose the opponents react properly and have iniated a grapple or use the overrun rules as if the attacking creatures were the opponents (they could trip him and stuff), but that's a tricky question. I think there's a faq on something similar, like 'someone steps in a dead opponent square and the opponent is raised back, then what happens?'. Maybe that faq could help. However the rage should not be wasted if he fails.
Orenmir 10-25-07, 11:18 AM	RAW, more than one person/creature can occupy the same space at the same time. Usually, they are grappling or moving by. In your case, the kobolds simply occupy the same space as the Goliath. They are, in fact, too close for melee combat; so, if they Kobolds want to attack, they will need to take a 5' step out of the Goliath's space and then attack. Same would go for the Goliath.
Bahumut 10-25-07, 11:20 AM	actually, a creature can occupy the same space as a creature 2 sizes bigger. so when you mountain rage and become large, the kobolds can stay in their places. and stab at your ankles =D
bfiggins 10-25-07, 12:51 PM	actually, a creature can occupy the same space as a creature 2 sizes bigger. so when you mountain rage and become large, the kobolds can stay in their places. and stab at your ankles =D Ok, bad example. Replace 'em with a horde of zombies, because that's what we're actually dealing with lately.
Orenmir 10-25-07, 01:09 PM	If by "horde" you mean that every square is occupied by a zombie in the Goliath's general vaciniy..... Well, it just gets complicated. Just remember these two rules: 1. Creatures/people can occupy the same space. 2. Creatures/people can't attack if their space is being shared by another whose size is the same or one category away from them. The zombies will need to do some manuvering before they can attack the Goliath. I would, however, houserule that the zombies occupying the same space as the Goliath could go ahead with a grapple attempt (good luck); but, if they fail, they would get pushed back into another zombie's space. (What a great time for Great Cleave and Swinging Strike.)
bfiggins 10-25-07, 01:33 PM	Cool. We'll figure it out as we go - at least the answer wasn't just "Well, he can't rage!" We're in an undead-centric campaign, and we regularly fight 100-200 zombies at a time. Where's Swinging Strike? I haven't seen that one.
Tordak 10-25-07, 02:14 PM	1. Creatures/people can occupy the same space. 2. Creatures/people can't attack if their space is being shared by another whose size is the same or one category away from them. (What a great time for Great Cleave and Swinging Strike.) I suppose that also means the Goliath will have to move to be able to attack, or does it only apply if you smaller and occupying the square of a creature 1 size categorie bigger?
kreesteeyan 10-25-07, 02:24 PM	@bfiggins You can use the mob rules from DMG2 when dealing with that kind of crowd.
Orenmir 10-25-07, 02:50 PM	Where's Swinging Strike? I haven't seen that one. I think I'm calling it by an incorrect name; but, it's the ability to attack multiple squares at once. War Hulk can do it, and I think there are some other ways to attain it. Sorry, I don't remember the name or sources. :( I suppose that also means the Goliath will have to move to be able to attack, or does it only apply if you smaller and occupying the square of a creature 1 size categorie bigger? Size is irrelevant (unless you are attacking something 2 sizes larger than yourself). In the case of this "horde," some houseruling may need to be done to give the Goliath the ability to attack at all. RAW, he would be overrun with zombies and unable to fight (which is realistic, IMO). You can use the mob rules from DMG2 when dealing with that kind of crowd. Indeed the best option.
ToastedAmphibian 10-25-07, 05:37 PM	Well, with mountain rage he dosnt really get THAT much bigger, he just somehow takes up more space on the mat, without taking up more space in his armor. They really didnt think that ability out all the way when they made it. A creature that fits in a 5ft by 5ft square gets a few inches bigger, and suddenly takes up a 10ft by 10ft square but still fits in his armor that takes up only a small portion of a 5ft by 5ft square. Huh? You would probably be better off if you change mountain rage to say "A creature in mountain rage gains +2 str and gains the reach of a creature one size category larger, but suffers the size penalties of a creature of that size (-1 attack and damage rolls). This is in addition to the benifits and penalties of a normal rage.