Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kwanzaabot 10-20-07, 06:49 AM	So, uh. I got some races that i'd like reviewed. I'm not overly experienced in this department, so i'm worried that my ideas will be torn to shreds by you guys, but here goes! PEACH away, and whatnot. :) Trader Grubs Sneaky, manipulative, greedy, self-serving, and above all, pains in the butt to be around, there's not a person in The World who can honestly say that they're fond of Trader Grubs. But, no matter how much they're despised, Trader Grubs know one thing: people need to buy things, and Trader Grubs just happen to be master salesmen. They could sell you your own mother for twice the price that an Orcish slave-trader is demanding, and you'd still buy her! (Basically, think of those Daffy Duck cartoons where Daffy is a travelling salesman, and tries to swindle Elmer Fudd- or Foghorn Leghorn that one time- and you'll have Trader Grubs in a nutshell) Physical Description:Looking like a cross between an anthropomorphic slug and a fat, green caterpillar, it's not just their personalities that make people recoil in horror. Trader Grubs stand at around 3 feet tall, and possess two eyes on stalks (they're slug people, after all), a pair of short tentacles that are just as adept as a pair of hands, two stubby legs and a short tail. Males are typically a dull green, brown, purple or black, but females are much more colourful, coming in pinks, reds, yellows, oranges and even pure-white, and unlike males, female Trader Grubs sport two stylish rows of anenomy-like tentacles along their backs, like some species of sea-slug. Trader Grubs believe themselves to be the descendants of the mighty (yet long-dead) race of Illithids (aka Mind Flayers), and even go so far as to call themselves "Flayerkin". Despite a knack for magic and their obvious mollusk biology, there's no hard evidence either way. Alignment: Trader Grubs don't care much about anything beyond their own agenda. Money, power and the fame and prestige of their families are all that matter. That isn't to say that all Trader Grubs care about nothing else, but they almost always put their own interests ahead of those of their friends. Trader Grubs are almost always some combination of Chaotic or Neutral. Religion: Trader Grubs have little time for the whims of the gods, but deities (or certain demons) that symbolize wealth and fame may find many Grubbish clerics among their ranks. Names: Trader Grubs name themselves after their profession or class, and include some reference to noteworthy family members as a kind of surname. To name a famous Trader Grub, Merchant, son of Weaponsmith and brother of Poison Wholesaler, was a companion of the great Human hero Gekki the Undying (so named because he was left out in the sun for a few weeks after temporarily dying- the Healer's union was on strike, and was unfortunately resurrected still partially decomposed). Many adventurers find Trader Grub names a bother to recite, and often bestow a nickname upon their greedy friend. Adventurers: Trader Grubs found outside of their homes are most often travelling merchants, alchemists, or henchmen of some great evil. Trader Grubs that do go adventuring, however, often do so for money and fame. That is not to say that all Trader Grubs adventure for personal gain, as Merchant, son of Weaponsmith and brother of Poison Wholesaler (see above) did so, as most heroes do, to save the world. And for the fame that such a celebrity status would bring, naturally. * +2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Dex * Small Humanoid: As a Small creature, Trader Grubs gain a +1 size bonus to Armour Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. * Base land speed is 20 ft. * Darkvision: 60ft * Friend or Foe: A Trader Grub's long experience in dealing with others and reading them at a glance comes quite naturally and he or she can detect the disposition of a chosen person. Trader Grubs can make a Sense Motive check against the target's modified level check (1d20 + character level or HD + target's Charisma bonus ). If successful the Trader Grub knows the targets disposition toward himself or herself. * Flayerkin (Ex): Because of their Illithid heritage, Trader Grubs can use magic devices that would normally only function for a Mind Flayer (or similar species). This ability lets a Trader Grub use the emulate race function of the Use Magic Device skill to emulate any Aberration race, but with no need for a skill check. * Manipulation (Su): Trader Grubs cast all Enchantment spells at +1 caster level. * Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy and Speak Language are treated as class skills for any and all classes Trader Grubs take. * Trader Grubs always count as having the Aberration Blood feat, and can select feats that require it as a prerequisite. This does not immediately grant the bonuses selectable by the feat. * Languages: Common, Undercommon * Bonus Languages: Any * Favoured Class: Bard Madagar [I] Just a warning, these guys are dog-people. I know they're kinda overdone, but I like my take on them, but I have some serious worries about their balance. Living in the volcanic eucalypt forests of the far south, Madagar are a noble race of dingo-men that are often found as slaves in human-dominated regions. Because of this, Madagar aren't overly fond of humans as a whole, but are fiercely protective and loyal to individual humans. Madagar put very little faith in manufactured weapons or armour, preferring to hunt their prey (no, not babies) the way the Gods intended- with their bare claws. Physical Description: Typically 6+ feet tall, Madagar range from the doglike, to the nearly elven (think old hollywood-style werewolf- human-ish faces on hairy bodies). While they are quite capable of standing erect, many prefer to walk on all fours. Their fur ranges from grey, brown, orange and white, depending on the area, and they have a tail. When on all fours, Madagar almost look like Barghests, which according to legend, are the spirits of their ancestors. Alignment: Honor is a serious matter for Madagar, and to shame yourself, your pack or your ancestors is something that most Madagar would find abhorrent, and most (non-adventuring) Madagar would believe the only way to redeem themselves would be to throw themselves on their sword. Madagar never hunt prey that is weaker than themselves, and have a hard time telling lies or cheating. Madagar are almost always Lawful. Religion: Madagar all practice ancestor worship, and don't concern themselves with the gods, although they acknowledge their existence. To a Madagar, to honor their ancestors and revere the fairies is much more fulfilling than bowing down to some so-called god. However, Madagar that do worship gods tend to gravitate towards gods of the hunt, nature or fertility. * +2 Dex, -2 Cha * Medium Humanoid * Base land speed is 30 ft. * Natural Weapons: Madagar have two primary claw attacks that deal 1d4 points of slashing damage plus Strength bonus, and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d3 points of piercing damage plus 1/2 Strength bonus. * Quadruped: Madagar in light or no armor can move at a base land speed of 40 feet on all fours. A Madagar acting as a Quadruped cannot use weapons other than his Natural Weapons, and cannot use shields. Acting as a Quadruped provides a +4 bonus to avoid being Tripped. Switching between bipedal and quadrupedal is a Move Action. * Speak with Animals (Sp): Once per day, a Madagar can use speak with animals to communicate with birds. It has a duration of 1 minute (the Madagar is considered a 1st-level caster when it uses this ability, regardless of its actual level). - Wolves sometimes use crows and ravens to track recently deceased prey, and Magagar one-up this by being able to have conversations with birds. I've noticed that some dog races can talk to dog animals, but that seems boring to me. Still, i'm open to suggestions. +2 racial bonus on Listen and Survival checks. Languages: Common, Garm Bonus Languages: Any Favoured Class: Ranger So, that's two of my races! Once I get some looks at them, I might upload my Iosgunn-nea (Alien frog-people) and Selkies. The Madagar are the ones i'm really worried about, as i'd like them to be a LA of 0, but LA1 isn't so bad. Edit #1: Changed the Madagar's Quadruped ability and the Trader Grub's Flayerkin ability. Better? Worse? YOU decide. :D Edit #2: Temporary adjustment of races, gonna be more in-depth later. Edit #3: Added "Friend or Foe" to the list of Trader Grub abilities. Edit #4: Added some moar info about Trader Grubs, and added a little about Madagar.
Arscura 10-20-07, 07:05 AM	On Trader Grubs: I would say it is a bit odd that they have a bonus to Cha if no one likes them For your abberation I would say give them a +4 bonus on use magic device checks to emulate being an abberation, alike a bit the mongrelfolk have a bonus on this skill. I don't know what abberation feats or PrC you are thinking of, I do not have lords of madness book which I assume you are hinting at, so can't help there. Madagar. Natural weapons doesn't really hurt LA, you can read this from the Kobold web enhancements why it doesn"t. Quadrupped; It is odd to say prone position for that is meant for being in a position that is unnatural to a race. Even a dog can have this. It means really lying down. So remove that word and just say they can move 40 feet if on all fours, or something alike. I would remove the halving of the penalty for the same reason that this race can just be as prone as others. It will be harder anyway as they have +4 versus tripping if they use their quadrupped movement. Be sure to add a clause about the ability to carry shield: like bucklers need not be unequipped but others shields must be for this movement. I'm sorry but I indeed find it odd that they have speak with animals. Rather give them scent. A strong ability, but very much in line with the race I think both are +0 even with the changes. They are not more powerful than the Dwarf, which is considered the top limit of LA +0 Selkies are within the Fiend Folio, just so you know
kwanzaabot 10-20-07, 07:21 AM	On Trader Grubs: I would say it is a bit odd that they have a bonus to Cha if no one likes them Well, while they're not well-liked (obnoxious might be a better word), they're skilled at getting their way. Sort of like Daffy Duck (like I said earlier) or Rodney Dangerfield. For your abberation I would say give them a +4 bonus on use magic device checks to emulate being an abberation, alike a bit the mongrelfolk have a bonus on this skill. I like this. :D I don't know what abberation feats or PrC you are thinking of, I do not have lords of madness book which I assume you are hinting at, so can't help there. Kinda, yep. Quadrupped; It is odd to say prone position for that is meant for being in a position that is unnatural to a race. Even a dog can have this. It means really lying down. So remove that word and just say they can move 40 feet if on all fours, or something alike. I would remove the halving of the penalty for the same reason that this race can just be as prone as others. It will be harder anyway as they have +4 versus tripping if they use their quadrupped movement. Be sure to add a clause about the ability to carry shield: like bucklers need not be unequipped but others shields must be for this movement. I'll have to think about this one, see what I can do. :D I'm sorry but I indeed find it odd that they have speak with animals. Rather give them scent. A strong ability, but very much in line with the race I'd really rather not with that one. Like I said, they use birds to help with their hunting, but they actually ask the birds where to go, rather than simply following them like a wolf. Selkies are within the Fiend Folio, just so you know I don't like those Selkies. Mine are a human subrace. It takes some inspiration from that one, but I like mine better. Anyway, thanks for the pointers. I'll see what other people have to say, and see what I can compile.
zeratulcraft 10-20-07, 07:47 AM	On Trader Grubs: I would say it is a bit odd that they have a bonus to Cha if no one likes them Why would being well liked or not have any effect on how hard your sorcerous spells are to resist, or how well you can activate a magic item you ordinarily could not?
Arscura 10-21-07, 07:43 AM	Why would being well liked or not have any effect on how hard your sorcerous spells are to resist, or how well you can activate a magic item you ordinarily could not? That is always a bit the difficult discussion around charisma. What does it entail? In AD&D all stats could be split into two, where charsima had a 'leadership' charisma score & a 'looks' charisma score. The leadership part is the 'force of personality' from which sorcerous use their powers. I thought that in this case, for their merchant background, they seem to have a force of personality, but are not well liked and seem to be unsubtle. That comes for me down more for +0, than a +2 Cha. I give in that the Charisma stat always leaves a bit open for debate.
Captain_Kobold 10-21-07, 07:55 PM	* Flayerkin: Trader Grubs qualify as an Aberration for purposes of activating magic items. They receive a +4 Racial bonus to Use Magic Device checks to emulate Aberrations. If they already qualify as Aberrations for the purposes of using magic items, why would they need to make checks to Emulate them? The Madagars are a little too good for +0 LA at the moment I think. I would suggest removing their claw attacks and upgrading their bite to a primary 1d4 attack. The suggested natural weapons for kobolds are not unbalancing because the race was somewhat under +0 LA to begin, small size, and has a strength penalty. The Madagar claws would be much more open to abuse. Whilst in quadrapedal stance, give them the generic +4 to resist tripping, bullrushing and any similar effects that four legged creatures would have a bonus to. I would take away their ability to use a shield when a quadraped. Strapped across the back is not in use, otherwise everyone would do it.
kwanzaabot 10-22-07, 12:26 AM	If they already qualify as Aberrations for the purposes of using magic items, why would they need to make checks to Emulate them? I copy/pasted it from a PDF that had stuff about Mongrelfolk. It's a little vague, probably so they don't get sued. =P I'll check out the real Mongrelfolk stats, see if I can make it make moar sense. The Madagars are a little too good for +0 LA at the moment I think. I would suggest removing their claw attacks and upgrading their bite to a primary 1d4 attack. The suggested natural weapons for kobolds are not unbalancing because the race was somewhat under +0 LA to begin, small size, and has a strength penalty. The Madagar claws would be much more open to abuse. What if I dropped the bite, and kept the claws? I'd rather the claws over their fangs anyday. Whilst in quadrapedal stance, give them the generic +4 to resist tripping, bullrushing and any similar effects that four legged creatures would have a bonus to. I would take away their ability to use a shield when a quadraped. Strapped across the back is not in use, otherwise everyone would do it. Will do. I'm not great at writing these things yet, so you'll have to forgive my not making much sense. :)
jradd777 10-22-07, 02:55 AM	Concerning Madagar: Yeah, overall, Dex is much more important mechanically than Cha, even the DMG 3.5(check out page 173 if you have it) says that a racial bonus to Dex (for balanced) should be accompanied by penalties either to Str or CON or Int and Cha or Wis and Cha or Int and Cha. Either -2 Int or -2 Wis would make sense for this race, which depends on your flavor for them probably. Concerning Trader Grubs: I love this concept. It's great. To respond to what other people have said concerning the +2 to CHA, I see it as their manipulation etc, outweighs peoples' general dislike for them. It could even be that people don't like them as a race etc, but when they actually meet them, they are strangely compelled to trust them/accept them or whatever. They seem pretty under-balanced to me and I think you should even add several more minor racial traits. Because mechanically penalties to Str and Dex far outweigh the bonuses you gave them (basically, you could give them +2 to Wis and +2 more to Int and they might still be balanced or just a +2 to Con or something). Also, being small gives them several penalties for several things and they only have 20' movement. Again, tho, overall I really, really like this race. I'd be glad to offer up some suggestions, I didn't want to take liberties on that part. I can't assume to know what kind of flavor you see for these guys.
jradd777 10-22-07, 03:00 AM	Whilst in quadrapedal stance, give them the generic +4 to resist tripping, bullrushing and any similar effects that four legged creatures would have a bonus to. Yeah, there's an easy term that's used for describing this kind of racial trait... maybe it's "stability?" I forget at the moment. No worries, I'm sure everyone understands it's an early attempt.
kwanzaabot 10-22-07, 07:59 PM	Concerning Trader Grubs: I love this concept. It's great. ... Again, tho, overall I really, really like this race. I'd be glad to offer up some suggestions, I didn't want to take liberties on that part. I can't assume to know what kind of flavor you see for these guys. Thanks for the kind words. :D Yeah, they are pretty underpowered. Basically, I want to keep them out of combat- they're manipulative cowards, so they get other people to do the dirty work for them (hence the +1 caster level for Enchantment spells). Basically, they're greedy, slug-like gnomes. They live in ant-style colonies underground and serve a queen, who is of course their mother. An overbearing, "why don't you call more often and why don't you settle down with a nice Jewish girl and you need to eat more, you're practically skin and bones" kind of mother. =P So, feel free to offer suggestions. Anything that can further their own agenda while largely staying out of the line of fire would be great. Something that reinforces their Mind Flayer heritage would be great, too.
jradd777 10-22-07, 08:46 PM	Something that reinforces their Mind Flayer heritage would be great, too. Yeah, that's exactly where I'm hoping to help you go with it. I have the Lords of Madness, so I'll read up some more on things and then I'll offer up what I will hope are solid suggestions. Your welcome and again, great concept, IMO! Edit: Here's a quick thing if you want to bolster their tie to mind flayers in the aspect of languages. Mind Flayers communicate mostly telepathically but if they must speak most of them can speak Undercommon with things like Common, Elven, Aquan, and Infernal as bonus languages. I'd give your Trader Grubs Undercommon and Common as language with all others as Bonus languages except secret ones like Druidic. Maybe even Speak Language as a class skill, like Changelings. Oh and how set are you on the name "Trader Grub?" I mean, I like it as a well-known common name to call the filthy buggers (heh heh) but what about coming up with a more illithid inspired real name? Especially since... I've been flipping through the Lords of Madness... it might be cool to somehow relate these to either Neothelids or some Mind Flayer experiment or something. In fact... I was sorta wondering how you'd feel about them being a direct spawn of the Neothelids (some weird mystery miracle birth) or some sort of mutated variety thereof.
kwanzaabot 10-22-07, 10:27 PM	Edit: Here's a quick thing if you want to bolster their tie to mind flayers in the aspect of languages. Mind Flayers communicate mostly telepathically but if they must speak most of them can speak Undercommon with things like Common, Elven, Aquan, and Infernal as bonus languages. I'd give your Trader Grubs Undercommon and Common as language with all others as Bonus languages except secret ones like Druidic. Maybe even Speak Language as a class skill, like Changelings. Oh and how set are you on the name "Trader Grub?" I mean, I like it as a well-known common name to call the filthy buggers (heh heh) but what about coming up with a more illithid inspired real name? Especially since... I've been flipping through the Lords of Madness... it might be cool to somehow relate these to either Neothelids or some Mind Flayer experiment or something. In fact... I was sorta wondering how you'd feel about them being a direct spawn of the Neothelids (some weird mystery miracle birth) or some sort of mutated variety thereof. Funnily enough, they did have Undercommon in my first draft, but I dropped it for some reason I can't remember. :P I LOVE the idea of them being related to Neothelids. That's way cool- as i've stated, Mind Flayers are extinct in my campaign (supposedly), so it'd be interesting to have the leftover tadpoles develop into Neothelids, and then into Trader Grubs. More importantly, maybe their bodies could secrete some kind of acid, as a result of the neothelid's breath weapon? Like, if something tries to grab them, they get hurt by the acid? It's slug slime... TO THE EXTREME! :D' And an illithid-ish name would be cool, too. :D
jradd777 10-22-07, 10:47 PM	Funnily enough, they did have Undercommon in my first draft, but I dropped it for some reason I can't remember. :P Yeah, shoulda kept it, it's all good though. I LOVE the idea of them being related to Neothelids. That's way cool- as i've stated, Mind Flayers are extinct in my campaign (supposedly), so it'd be interesting to have the leftover tadpoles develop into Neothelids, and then into Trader Grubs. Right, yeah, I figured that would be the best lineage, especially morphologically (I actually didn't notice or forgot that Mind Flayers are extinct in your setting). I'm definitely going to start trying to think of racial charisma based abilities to give them... I might even rob some class abilities off of this class that I'm currently working on (such as Detect Disposition, that'd be really good for them) More importantly, maybe their bodies could secrete some kind of acid, as a result of the neothelid's breath weapon? Like, if something tries to grab them, they get hurt by the acid? It's slug slime... TO THE EXTREME! :D' Hmm... I'm not sure how to make that work... I know there's some sort of precendent, but I'd have to make sure it's not so good as to overbalance, or we could make up something that would already not throw it past balance (like maybe if it only happened as an immediate response to a successful grapple or is if was a weak acid [maybe even poison that just blinds for a round or something, it'd be hilarious if it was like "acid" acid and made them confused for a round or something]). And an illithid-ish name would be cool, too. :D I'll work on something good, I was kinda thinking something that would imply them as a stage of development, like the word grub that you used... I'm having like a tip of the tongue effect with it, tho, I'll have something good soon. Also, do you want to officially make them aberrations or at least enough so to allow them the option of taking aberration feats (a select list or something), maybe? BTW, I love your Username, heh heh, Kwanzaabot, I love Futurama!
TiwazTyrsfist 10-22-07, 11:22 PM	I like the current versions of both!
kwanzaabot 10-23-07, 04:10 AM	I might even rob some class abilities off of this class that I'm currently working on (such as Detect Disposition, that'd be really good for them) Hells yeah! :D Hmm... I'm not sure how to make that work... I know there's some sort of precendent, but I'd have to make sure it's not so good as to overbalance, or we could make up something that would already not throw it past balance (like maybe if it only happened as an immediate response to a successful grapple or is if was a weak acid [maybe even poison that just blinds for a round or something, it'd be hilarious if it was like "acid" acid and made them confused for a round or something]). I've been toying with the idea, but i'm not so sure now. Also, do you want to officially make them aberrations or at least enough so to allow them the option of taking aberration feats (a select list or something), maybe? I had something like that originally (the feats). Lords of Madness is a good book. :D I might add something to their Flayerkin ability like "Trader Grubs always count as having the Aberration Blood feat, and can select feats that require it as a prerequisite." Seems only fair. :P BTW, I love your Username, heh heh, Kwanzaabot, I love Futurama! That's a good lad. :) And thanks, TiwazTyrsfist, good to see that I have fans!
jradd777 10-23-07, 07:02 AM	Alright, these are the two abilities of off my Apologetic class that seem the mostly easily adaptible into racial traits for Trader Grubs. They need to be reflavored and readjusted (my suggestions for revisions in brackets under each), obviously, but what do you think about working with these? Shun the Non-believer: If the Apologetic is able to persuade a majority of his or her enemies into compromise or non-violence, he or she gains a +1 circumstance bonus per persuaded enemy to sway the remainder of opponents. This bonus cannot exceed +10. [Winning the Crowd: When dealing with trader grubs, other races can become gullible to the point of defending the trader grubs outrageous claims against opposition. If the Trader Grub uses a charisma based skill successfully against a majority of his audience, he or she gains a +1 circumstance bonus per persuaded enemy to retry another single opponent as if he or she had never failed. This bonus cannot exceed +5.] Detect Disposition: The Apologetic’s practice in reading people at a glance to better understand or persuade them eventually allows them to detect the dispositions of those around him or her. At 5th level and higher, an Apologetic can make a Sense Motive check against the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Charisma bonus [if any]). If successful the Apologetic knows the target’s disposition toward himself or herself. [Friend or Foe: A Trader Grub's long experience in dealing with others and reading them at a glance comes quite naturally and he or she can detect the disposition of a chosen person. Trader Grubs can make a Sense Motive check against the target's modified level check (1d20 + character level or HD + target's Charisma bonus [if any]). If successful the Trader Grub knows the targets disposition toward himself or herself.] Note: I've been told that instead of HD on that modified level check, I should use CR since HD varies widely within a CR, I'll let you decide for your own. Anyway tell me what you think of this stuff, I'll get back to you on other things we're talking about (illithidish name, etc.). Edit: What about a small SR (like +5)? and telepathy 20' or something?
kwanzaabot 10-24-07, 03:45 AM	Anyway tell me what you think of this stuff, I'll get back to you on other things we're talking about (illithidish name, etc.). Edit: What about a small SR (like +5)? and telepathy 20' or something? I quite like that Friend or Foe one, and Winning the Crowd is definitely good, too. :D Oh god, i'm getting a mental image of an unscrupulous Grub convincing a whole town to turn against an unsuspecting party of adventurers, without ever once lifting a finger (er, tentacle) himself. I LOVE IT. :'D I don't think telepathy would suit them... despite being related to psychic monsters, it's not really their style. One thing i'm worried about though, is that an ability like Winning the Crowd PLUS all the abilities they already have, could tip them into the "unbalanced" territory. Is physical weakness really enough to counteract that?
jradd777 10-24-07, 02:42 PM	I quite like that Friend or Foe one, and Winning the Crowd is definitely good, too. :D Oh god, i'm getting a mental image of an unscrupulous Grub convincing a whole town to turn against an unsuspecting party of adventurers, without ever once lifting a finger (er, tentacle) himself. I LOVE IT. :'D I know, it's a beautiful thing... I don't think telepathy would suit them... despite being related to psychic monsters, it's not really their style. Seconded, I can see that. One thing i'm worried about though, is that an ability like Winning the Crowd PLUS all the abilities they already have, could tip them into the "unbalanced" territory. Is physical weakness really enough to counteract that? Right... possibly,..probably, especially considering the brokenness of the Diplomacy skill, which I had kind of forgotten about until recently. I meant those two possibilities for you to probably only pick one out of the two(both is a bit much for just racial abilities and I kinda just wanted to show up a bit of my work, too, heh heh). I'd say you're on the right track though, to give them Winning the Crowd also might be too much unless we weakened it severely... and even then... I don't know. As it looks as a whole now, I'd say it's pretty solid. I wouldn't add too much more unless it's really minor bonuses or something. But that's just my judgment, I hope you get plenty more opinions. If you write up more full description with flavor stuff as if you'd find it in an actual book, private message me and let me know. For now, if you don't mind I'd like to copy this for later use possibly (at my DM's discretion).
kwanzaabot 10-24-07, 08:05 PM	As it looks as a whole now, I'd say it's pretty solid. I wouldn't add too much more unless it's really minor bonuses or something. But that's just my judgment, I hope you get plenty more opinions. If you write up more full description with flavor stuff as if you'd find it in an actual book, private message me and let me know. For now, if you don't mind I'd like to copy this for later use possibly (at my DM's discretion). Added some flavour, but apparently you disabled PMing. Either way, it's there. And HELLS YES, feel free to use 'em, I could do with a guinea pig. =P
jradd777 10-24-07, 08:17 PM	Oops, you should be able to PM now, if you need. Does that mean you've finalized it as it is now?
kwanzaabot 10-24-07, 08:22 PM	Oops, you should be able to PM now, if you need. Does that mean you've finalized it as it is now? More or less.
Finfreeze 10-24-07, 11:09 PM	Well, you could always lump those additional abilities together and make them racial feats or stick them in a racial paragon class of some sort...
jradd777 10-25-07, 09:28 PM	Well, you could always lump those additional abilities together and make them racial feats or stick them in a racial paragon class of some sort... Winning the Crowd (toned down a bit), I think would be an excellent idea for a racial paragon ability.