Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JoshuaWilhoyte 04-27-07, 02:04 PM	I don't use the Race forums very often, so I'm not sure if there have been other topics handling this subject (though I assume there have been). I have checked the first couple of pages, and none of the topics seemed to cover this topic already. We're up to 15th level in our game, and one of the characters just died (Symbol of Death, and our DM hates Raise Dead style spells, so she's pretty much permanantly dead). He's brought in a 15 level Cleric as his new character, and he's Deathless. Now, I know Deathless doesn't have a listed LA, so apparently they're using the Necropolitan from Libris Mortis for the mechanics, just switching the flavor from Undead to Deathless (so he heals from positive energy, etc.). So, what's the general consensus on the balance of Necropolitan. I know it comes down to DM call, I'm just curious to see what general thoughts are.
Echo_that_Pains 04-27-07, 02:46 PM	Isn't the Deathless template in the ECS (or other Eberron book)? There are enough negatives with the Necropolitan to make it balance fine. First of all - it costs 3k gold and you loose a level. Secondly, you are only able to heal from negative energy spells. You gain some of the basic undead qualities in exchange for all of that. Balance is good on it.
runestar 04-27-07, 10:01 PM	Well, the way xp is calculated in 3.5, lv loss is not necessarily that bad since you end up getting more xp in return, thus it is only a matter of time before you get that lost lv back. The loss of con score may be good or bad depending on what your original con score was. A wizard with 8 con certainly won't mind, that's for sure... Undead traits are always nice. Consider spellstitching yourself when you have enough resources. Should be well worth the tradeoff, IMO.:)
JoshuaWilhoyte 04-30-07, 11:00 AM	Is it balanced if you don't lose a level and can still be healed by the Cure spells?
Ebonyte 04-30-07, 04:13 PM	I guess, but I enjoy the undead aspect, as anyone who knows me will attest to. Really, playing a Necropolitan is just tacking the Undead subtype onto a character. Everything else is minor details.
JoshuaWilhoyte 05-01-07, 11:01 AM	Doesn't the Undead template have a phenomenal number of advantages and almost no weaknesses? Especially if you let Cure spells work on them?
Fallenangel359 05-01-07, 04:13 PM	deathless type is slightly stronger as good clerics can't really do much to them. They still can be harmed to death, so the heal/harm debate doesn't mean much. The thing is the rebuke/turn debate, and the non cure/harm spells that are reliant of negetive/positive energy I noticed incorpereal deathless (sacred watcher) is actually considerable stronger than incorpereal undead both at LA 5
Thiez 05-01-07, 04:29 PM	Doesn't the Undead template have a phenomenal number of advantages and almost no weaknesses? Especially if you let Cure spells work on them? Almost no weaknesses? Since you drop a level, you will always be 1 HD behind what the clerics of your level can turn :P
Feroz 05-01-07, 04:41 PM	deathless type is slightly stronger as good clerics can't really do much to them. They still can be harmed to death, so the heal/harm debate doesn't mean much. The thing is the rebuke/turn debate, and the non cure/harm spells that are reliant of negetive/positive energy I noticed incorpereal deathless (sacred watcher) is actually considerable stronger than incorpereal undead both at LA 5 Uh, good clerics can do nasty things to deathless as much as evil clerics can. A good turning attempt functions on deathless like a rebuking does on undead. No save cowering for 1 minute and all he has to do is not move towards you if he's closer than 10 feet? Much pain for you, even worse than an evil cleric turning you, really, at least then you run away, with a good cleric doing it, you can't even do that.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 05-01-07, 07:11 PM	I would say that the Necropolitan template is pretty balanced how it is, and that straying too much from it might desearve a level adjustment. The only reason it has no LA right now is because the of the whole lossing a level thing. In my group this stinks especially, since the DM just gives out group experience instead of EXP based on level. As far as whether or not the template is good is a matter of opinion. I like it the best out of the undead options available to PCs, but it has three major drawbacks, like nearly all undead. 1. Your destroyed at 0 hp. No buffer zone for you. 2. Clerics can turn you or destroy you. No saving throw for you. This isnt much of an issue though, as to destroy your character the priest would have to be waaay above your CR... unless he has greater turning. 3. Craptacular fort save. Beware disenigrate. Other than that, being undead is pretty chic. And there are ways to offset these disadvantages through feats, like improved turn resistance, Great Fortitude, and the like. Or being careful. Edit: Added the word "nearly" in. For the most part vamps and liches dont care much if they hit 0 hp :D