Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theotherdraxen 11-05-06, 01:10 AM	NECROTAUN http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l207/theotherdraxen/Half_dead_copy2.jpg "My heart only beats twice a day...is that weird?" -Dusk, a Necrotaun The necrotauns are beings created through horrid apotheosis of life and death. They live in limbo between this world and the next, more living than dead, but only slightly. Most necrotauns are made from a near-death state as they fall close to the Trench of a Thousand Souls, and drafted into it’s defense. Some were made hundreds of years ago by the very first Twilight Scion, and have memories of their rebellion. Still others come into existence through other means. Every necrotaun has a living past, though few can remember their own history, and fewer seek it out. Personality: Most necrotauns adapt to their new life, throwing off their old lifestyle. They are as flexible as humans in personality. The cold atmosphere provided by the living does cause them to shrink into themselves when found outside their homeland, but very little about necrotauns define them to a specific personality or archetype. Physical Description: Because they come from a variety of races, necrotauns can range from very small to quite large. They have the normal height and weight of the humanoid race they came from. However, the process of becoming a half-dead causes their bodies to utterly reform. As a result, a human necrotaun looks very similar to an elven necrotaun, and vice versa. Relations: Most necrotauns prefer to stay amongst their own kind. Amongst other races, they face cold aversion. Few want to welcome the living dead into their homes. Alignment: Necrotauns favor the alignment of their previous form, though they may be of any alignment. Necrotaun Lands: Necrotauns mostly reside in Denoria, a large region to the east of Halos. They take up residence and build cities along the Trench of a Thousand Souls. Outside such safe havens, necrotuans have no homes. Religion: Necrotauns do not usually take up a religion, though those that do follow tend to follow it with great fervor. Language: Necrotauns speak the languages of their former life, though any languages gained through Speak Language will likely be lost. Names: Necrotauns define themselves by whatever names they wish. Some refer to themselves by cold nick-names given to them by the nearby living. Others take harsh names symbolizing their rejection of life. Most, however, just try to live normal lives, and thus take normal names. Adventurers: For many, adventure is a direct way of earning respect in society. Also, many necrotauns are curious about their past and who they were when they were living. Adventuring is a key way of finding out, as memories sometime resurface when the necrotaun visits places they are familiar to. NECROTAUN RACIAL TRAITS Living Dead Subtype (Ex): The type of a Necrotaun is undead with the Living Dead subtype. Features: As a living dead, a necrotaun has the following features. • A living dead derives its Hit Dice, base attack bonus progression, saving throws, and skill points from the class it selects. Traits: A necrotaun posses the following traits. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun has a constitution score. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun does not have dark vision. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun is not immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun is not immune to sleep, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain. • Immunity to poison, paralysis, stunning, nausea, and effects that cause the sickened condition. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun can heal lethal damage. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun is subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, death effects, and necromancy effects. • As living dead, necrotauns are healed by inflict spells and the like. • As living dead, a necrotaun can be raised or resurrected. • Unlike other undead, a necrotaun must breathe, eat, and sleep. • Turn Resistance: A necrotaun is unusually resistant to turning. They treat all hit dice they have a racial hit dice for the purposes of turn checks. • +2 Strength, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma: Necrotauns can tap their extra strength, the way a zombie might. However, their bodies are less fit and run poorly when compared to a human, and their undead state leaves others feeling disturbed. • Spell-like Abilities: 1/day—speak with dead. A necrotaun with a charisma score of 10 or higher also has death watch as a spell-like ability, useable once per day. • Small or Medium: A necrotaun is small or medium in size, depending on the creature it came from, and how old it was. • Necrotaun base land speed is 30 if it medium, and 20 if it is small. • A necrotaun has a natural weapon in the form of a claw attack that deals 1d4 damage. • Automatic Languages: Any of the automatic languages of the creature it came from (usually Common plus Racial or Regional). Bonus Languages: Abyssal and Infernal. • Favored Class: Twilight Scion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=786189), or Cleric, if you do not wish to use this class.
Darth Sephiroth 11-05-06, 03:09 AM	interesting idea
Manyfist 11-05-06, 03:33 AM	It needs a LA:+1 Btw. Other than that it looks fine.
FreAkOuTRG 11-05-06, 09:14 AM	So... how do you make a living dead?
theotherdraxen 11-05-06, 10:05 AM	It needs a LA:+1 Btw. Other than that it looks fine. Why? I'm determined to keep this LA+0, so what needs to go? So... how do you make a living dead? Pick your favorite method. A screwed up ressurection, someone with more will power than others just won't die, or maybe someone requested it.
SquirrelMortis 11-05-06, 02:18 PM	Very interesting idea. Did you get the idea for the living dead subtype from living construct? At any rate, cool!
Manyfist 11-05-06, 03:12 PM	Why? I'm determined to keep this LA+0, so what needs to go? The Speak with Undead, and the Lists Immunity like Poison, paralysis, stunning, nausea, and effects that cause the sickened condition. If you add Half Healed by Neg. Energy, and no Natural Healing, it would be good.
theotherdraxen 11-05-06, 03:51 PM	The Speak with Undead, and the Lists Immunity like Poison, paralysis, stunning, nausea, and effects that cause the sickened condition. What if I took off paralysis and stunning? If you add Half Healed by Neg. Energy, and no Natural Healing, it would be good. Maybe I wasn't clear about this one...they are healed by negative energy, but hurt by positive energy. Without natural healing, this race would be virtually unplayable at low levels.
Manyfist 11-05-06, 05:35 PM	What if I took off paralysis and stunning? Maybe I wasn't clear about this one...they are healed by negative energy, but hurt by positive energy. Without natural healing, this race would be virtually unplayable at low levels. Well you could throw on the Living Contruct Template, and just say "Healed 1/2 by Inflict" and fully healed by Repair damage spells. Well Warforged are LA:+0 and they have no Natural Healing, but they can spend 8hrs repairing them selves.
theotherdraxen 11-05-06, 06:13 PM	No templates. They must be LA+0. As for the healing, I don't know how to balance it. They are undead, not constructs.
periscope 01-02-07, 04:43 AM	just have them run off negative energy like other undead and just heal like 1 hit point a day (2 with rest) with possibly an additional +1 per 5 hit die. Personally I dont think this is anywhere near as strong as the warforged, dwarves, or elves and would argue that they should probably gain immunity to death effects, or at least to sleep and exhaustion (after cheating death I dont think you'll find a more exhausting task). That and I'd give them darkvision. A +2 to str does not justify a -2 to con and cha when a warforged still gets better (being immune to disease, poison, either ability damage or energy drain I dont have the book in front of me right now)Speak with dead really isnt all that powerful when you think about it (I mean any smart dm would respond to "Who killed you?" with "I didnt see them"). Maybe instead of darkvision you could give them the lifesense feat as a bonus feat.
KavonRa 02-05-07, 09:51 PM	i kinda like this race. it has potential. I hope this will see abit more daylight hehe
theotherdraxen 02-06-07, 05:22 PM	Well you could throw on the Living Contruct Template, and just say "Healed 1/2 by Inflict" and fully healed by Repair damage spells. Well Warforged are LA:+0 and they have no Natural Healing, but they can spend 8hrs repairing them selves. I'm not a fan of the Warforged mechanics, personally. I'd like these guys to fit more smoothly into a game. just have them run off negative energy like other undead and just heal like 1 hit point a day (2 with rest) with possibly an additional +1 per 5 hit die. Personally I dont think this is anywhere near as strong as the warforged, dwarves, or elves and would argue that they should probably gain immunity to death effects, or at least to sleep and exhaustion (after cheating death I dont think you'll find a more exhausting task). That and I'd give them darkvision. A +2 to str does not justify a -2 to con and cha when a warforged still gets better (being immune to disease, poison, either ability damage or energy drain I dont have the book in front of me right now)Speak with dead really isnt all that powerful when you think about it (I mean any smart dm would respond to "Who killed you?" with "I didnt see them"). Maybe instead of darkvision you could give them the lifesense feat as a bonus feat. Speak with Dead forces the undead creature to speak with you and answer honestly and helpfully. You speak with an imprint left behind, not the dead creature itself. Really, though, the two spells given don't strike me as game breaking to have. i kinda like this race. it has potential. I hope this will see abit more daylight hehe I've been testing this race being played as my homebrew Twilight Scion. It's working nicely. If you'd like to use it, feel free to do so.
periscope 02-06-07, 06:50 PM	I still suggest giving them immunity to sleep, fatigue, exhaustion and take away their need to eat and sleep, they're undead. Or you could not give them a constitution score. Before anyone says that'll raise the LA, plz let me speak: No constitution bonus may give a lot of advantages (not eating to eat, drink, breathe, sleep, fatigue, exhaustion, etc.) but It carries huge disadvantages with it as well that in my opinion, level it out. A creature without a con score does not get the -1 to -9 buffer for death, you hit 0 and your kaput. It may give immunity to many things that require a fort save (poison, disease, etc.) but anything that does affect the living and objects will affect them (disintegrate anyone?) will affect them and they will be woefully unprepared (a +12 at most or +14 at 20th level with the great fortitude feat or +19 with a +5 cloak of resistance. A character with a con score will often enjoy at least an additional +6 to their con score). Undead may get a D12 hit die but without a con score they will be REQUIRED to take improved toughness asap or really risk dieing. I mean a D12 normally equals (lets assume average rolls) 120 hp at 20th level. Lets compare with fighter at 20th level with no magic items. D10 HD 18 con = 180 hp a ranger at 20th level with no magic items. D8 HD 16 con = 140 hp These are base with no magic items whatsoever (amulet of health, the tomes, and we're assuming they didnt put the bonuses from class levels into con). Not to mention the hundreds of prcs, feats, spells, and items (both magical and mundane) designed to destroy or damage undead. Maybe just give them the undead type minus the darkvision (thats what they did for the elans and the aberration type) and call it good, maybe take the ability mods off (or maybe keep the -2 to cha with no bonus or maybe apply it to wisdom or dex since the trip to the grave and back can be a mind numbing experience or maybe they still suffer from rigor mortis).
theotherdraxen 02-06-07, 10:49 PM	I still suggest giving them immunity to sleep, fatigue, exhaustion and take away their need to eat and sleep, they're undead. Yes, but this wouldn't make sense flavor-wise IMC, since many of these undead have dreams about their old living lives. As for eating: they're living dead. IMO, zombies should be made to eat (eat HUMAN FLESH that is!) Or you could not give them a constitution score. Before anyone says that'll raise the LA, plz let me speak: No constitution bonus may give a lot of advantages (not eating to eat, drink, breathe, sleep, fatigue, exhaustion, etc.) but It carries huge disadvantages with it as well that in my opinion, level it out. Even the Necropolitan template comes with effectively LA +1, and all it offers is a removed con score and a couple of meager benefits. Besides, a major portion of balancing their increased strength is their penalty to constitution. A creature without a con score does not get the -1 to -9 buffer for death, you hit 0 and your kaput. It may give immunity to many things that require a fort save (poison, disease, etc.) but anything that does affect the living and objects will affect them (disintegrate anyone?) will affect them and they will be woefully unprepared (a +12 at most or +14 at 20th level with the great fortitude feat or +19 with a +5 cloak of resistance. A character with a con score will often enjoy at least an additional +6 to their con score). Undead may get a D12 hit die but without a con score they will be REQUIRED to take improved toughness asap or really risk dieing. I mean a D12 normally equals (lets assume average rolls) 120 hp at 20th level. Lets compare with fighter at 20th level with no magic items. D10 HD 18 con = 180 hp a ranger at 20th level with no magic items. D8 HD 16 con = 140 hp These are base with no magic items whatsoever (amulet of health, the tomes, and we're assuming they didnt put the bonuses from class levels into con). Yes, but in the hands of a d4 character (such as a wizard), this is a huge advantage. In order to achieve the same HP that undead get, a wizard has to have an 18 constitution score. Considering the power they need to stuff into their casting stat, they won't likely be able to afford this during normal play (although a 20 con gnome wizard can be very effective). He gets an automatic 18 con, without any resources needing to be spent. Granted he can go further, but most of those tomes of health and amulets of constitution will be given out to the group tanks anyway. End result in PB is dumping Con fully for the benefits of 16 points as far as HP is concerned, and immunity to a lot of stuff that normally requires constitution. Also, it really makes for a clunky character to start without a constitution score. Not having a con score is listed in the MM as an advantage. Not to mention the hundreds of prcs, feats, spells, and items (both magical and mundane) designed to destroy or damage undead. Part of being living dead was meant to reduce that, but I'll have to take a closer look. Maybe just give them the undead type minus the darkvision (thats what they did for the elans and the aberration type) and call it good, maybe take the ability mods off (or maybe keep the -2 to cha with no bonus or maybe apply it to wisdom or dex since the trip to the grave and back can be a mind numbing experience or maybe they still suffer from rigor mortis). I'm all for changing around their second penalty (which is supposed to justify some of their nice advantages). Really, charisma doesn't fit, since they don't have an inherently weaker force of personality, and their favored class is charisma based. A dexterity penalty makes sense as a balance for the advantages you wanted above: how about a second version of Twilight Scion that is sleepless but has worse motor skills? They result when the transformation is not quite complete, and the character walks more on the side of death rather than living.
questionc 02-07-07, 01:18 AM	I"m not sure what I think of this race's balance, but it seems ok, however a criticism: It's mechanically very clunky because of how you make it undead, but rule out pretty much every undead trait. Is it really that important that this is 'undead' on paper, or can you just make it a humanoid with lots of undead traits?
kaionon 02-07-07, 01:35 PM	As questionc suggested, why not make them Humanoid(death touched) or somethign instead of living undead? Give them qualities as an undead creature but for spells can effects they are considered (if at least partly) undead creatures? (Such as they could be turned, but not destroyed)
okaynowa 02-07-07, 01:52 PM	It does seem like it would be shorter to say: Type: Necrotaun are Humanoids with the Living Dead subtype. Creatures with the Living Dead subtype are healed by inflict spells, and damaged by cure spells. Creatures with the Living Dead subtype are also immune to poison, paralysis, stunning, nausea, and effects that cause the sickened condition. You thus dodge all the hassle of having to explain how the subtype negates 90% of the main type's qualities. You also avoid the hassle of Turning. If you want Living Dead to have access to Undead feats, classes, and so forth, you can add a clause that says: Creatures with the Living Dead subtype qualify for any feat or prestige class that lists the Undead type as a prerequisite. That's just a suggestion, though. I like subtypes to be short and additive. That said, a "playable undead" seems to be in demand, and this looks like a good beginning.
Suzaku455 02-07-07, 04:37 PM	Why do they get -minus to their cha? Most undead gain cha when they become intelligent. Even vampires which are commonly known undead, and I wager to bet most people would find creepy still get a +4 Cha, even a vampire spawns have a cha of 14.
theotherdraxen 02-07-07, 05:24 PM	It does seem like it would be shorter to say: Type: Necrotaun are Humanoids with the Living Dead subtype. Creatures with the Living Dead subtype are healed by inflict spells, and damaged by cure spells. Creatures with the Living Dead subtype are also immune to poison, paralysis, stunning, nausea, and effects that cause the sickened condition. You thus dodge all the hassle of having to explain how the subtype negates 90% of the main type's qualities. You also avoid the hassle of Turning. If you want Living Dead to have access to Undead feats, classes, and so forth, you can add a clause that says: Creatures with the Living Dead subtype qualify for any feat or prestige class that lists the Undead type as a prerequisite. That's just a suggestion, though. I like subtypes to be short and additive. That said, a "playable undead" seems to be in demand, and this looks like a good beginning. It would, and it's perfectly within their flavor (they walk the line between life and death) to be either humanoid or undead. I was more considering the effects of things associated with undead, for which they should be largely treated (Knowledge religion should be used to research them, rather than Knowledge local). That said, since most undead creatures have Undead Traits listed in their entry, I think I'll go with okaynowa's list instead to simplify things, and while they'll have the undead type, they'll essentially be humanoids. Does this work? Edit: now I remember why I did that. The formatting is largely based on the Warforged's set up (of which half of the construct traits are removed in favor of the Living Construct subtype). For ease, however, okaynowa's list would be all you have to write on your character sheet. Why do they get -minus to their cha? Most undead gain cha when they become intelligent. Even vampires which are commonly known undead, and I wager to bet most people would find creepy still get a +4 Cha, even a vampire spawns have a cha of 14. Like I said, I'd like to either move that penalty elsewhere or eliminate it entirely (if it would be balanced to do so).
Maraxus 02-07-07, 08:15 PM	Consider: If it is Undead, dies and get's resourected... Cleric: "Come back! Reee-suuu-rectionnnn!!!" Neco, the necro: "Whow, was I dead. ... Wait, who are you?" Cleric: "Hey, we are adventuring together for 3 month now. Wait, you look a bit diffrent." Neco: "Hey, and where am I? This is not Rhoen, is it?" Cleric: "I guess, If I had just put some ranks in my knowledge-skills, I could answer this." Neco: "Hey and why is it summer? Do we still have 326 the year of the wolf-hunters?" Cleric: "Damn, you're back alive. I mean not just "slightly alive" like usually - totally alive!" PS: Damn you and your post. Now I will not be able to rest untill I have found those "Lexx the Dark Zone" movies somewhere. :)
theotherdraxen 02-07-07, 11:47 PM	Consider: If it is Undead, dies and get's resourected... Cleric: "Come back! Reee-suuu-rectionnnn!!!" Neco, the necro: "Whow, was I dead. ... Wait, who are you?" Cleric: "Hey, we are adventuring together for 3 month now. Wait, you look a bit diffrent." Neco: "Hey, and where am I? This is not Rhoen, is it?" Cleric: "I guess, If I had just put some ranks in my knowledge-skills, I could answer this." Neco: "Hey and why is it summer? Do we still have 326 the year of the wolf-hunters?" Cleric: "Damn, you're back alive. I mean not just "slightly alive" like usually - totally alive!" The Rhoen is the name of a region in my campaign world. Do you know my campaign somehow, or is this just some really eerie coincidence? At any rate, I think it would only be fair to raise them back as half-dead. The apotheosis is irreversible, after all. Once you walk the line, you never go back... ...unless it's really important to the story. PS: Damn you and your post. Now I will not be able to rest untill I have found those "Lexx the Dark Zone" movies somewhere. :) I suppose this is where the Rhoen is from. Ah well, none of my players have seen them (I don't think) so no loss. :)
periscope 02-12-07, 12:45 AM	I'd give em a bonus at least against energy drain and ability damage though not ability drain (the reason being ability damage is like your arm is twisted and still recovering, ability drain means like the nerve was severed. The energy drain is because since they are pseudo undead, their "lifeforce" will be different than a living beings and thus harder to siphon off). That and dark vision, maybe or the lifesense feat, maybe take away the need to sleep. The eat and drink thing I'll give in on (brains, blood, brains, blood).
Maraxus 02-12-07, 08:04 AM	The Rhoen is the name of a region in my campaign world. Do you know my campaign somehow, or is this just some really eerie coincidence? Actually, I know it, because of my leet investigator skillz. I went to your house and searched your garbage and ... ...no, seriously, you asked in a thread, how one would pronounce this country from your campain setting, so I just used it here. :D
theotherdraxen 02-12-07, 07:00 PM	I'd give em a bonus at least against energy drain and ability damage though not ability drain (the reason being ability damage is like your arm is twisted and still recovering, ability drain means like the nerve was severed. The energy drain is because since they are pseudo undead, their "lifeforce" will be different than a living beings and thus harder to siphon off). That's um, worth 10 fp, I think. I'll check the feature points. That and dark vision, maybe or the lifesense feat, maybe take away the need to sleep. The eat and drink thing I'll give in on (brains, blood, brains, blood). Well, they sleep for the same reason vampires sleep: because they're still living enough. And it makes for neat dream sequences. Is there a way to dream without sleeping? Actually, I know it, because of my leet investigator skillz. I went to your house and searched your garbage and ... ...no, seriously, you asked in a thread, how one would pronounce this country from your campain setting, so I just used it here. :D Wow. That thread was a while ago, IIRC. Nice to know that I'm remembered around here. Who're you again?;)
ryuspearhead 02-13-07, 07:13 PM	i love this idea and i may use it some time :)
periscope 02-26-07, 06:14 PM	That's um, worth 10 fp, I think. I'll check the feature points. Well, they sleep for the same reason vampires sleep: because they're still living enough. And it makes for neat dream sequences. Is there a way to dream without sleeping? Wow. That thread was a while ago, IIRC. Nice to know that I'm remembered around here. Who're you again?;) the kalashtar sleep without dreaming.