Need a Half-Minotaur... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need a Half-Minotaur... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheSuspect
11-21-07, 09:47 AM Hey everyone. So, in my new campaign, along with my Saurian Race, there are also Half-Minotaurs. Sworn enemies of the Minotaur Race, Half-Minotaurs (Called the Taurus race) are nomadic mercenaries. They appear to be Minotauric in nature, but they are in fact the magicly evolved form off a different creature.

Can anyone recomend me a base, balanced, cool Half-Minotaur Race Temple, with preference with one with LA+0, so I can use him off the bat?

Thanks everyone
Orenmir
11-21-07, 10:24 AM Hey everyone. So, in my new campaign, along with my Saurian Race, there are also Half-Minotaurs. Sworn enemies of the Minotaur Race, Half-Minotaurs (Called the Taurus race) are nomadic mercenaries. They appear to be Minotauric in nature, but they are in fact the magicly evolved form off a different creature.

Can anyone recomend me a base, balanced, cool Half-Minotaur Race Temple, with preference with one with LA+0, so I can use him off the bat?

Thanks everyone

For LA +0, you're just not going to find one in the books or mags. I'd suggest you take the broken Half-Minotaur template from Dragon Magazine 313 and fix it, then tweak it. Maybe something like:

Str +2
Int -2
Cha -2 (for being so ugly!)
Medium Size
Low-Light Vision
+2 to escape a maze (flavor)
Must be Chaotic
+2 Search, Spot, Listen

For LA +0, that's all you're gonna get.

It basically looks like the Half-Orc stats, with low-light instead of darkvision and Search/Spot/Listen to balance -- although, that might be a bit strong. One way to ensure it's perfectly balanced is to just use the Half-Orc stats as is and reflavor it!
Tema69
11-21-07, 10:24 AM Here you go. I don't remember where I have found it though. And it's LA+1. But that's the best I can do.

Inherited Template that can be added to any Small-sized to Huge-sized Giant, Humanoid, or Monstrous Humanoid.

Usually has a Chaotic
alignment.
Gain Feat: Track.
Natural Armor +2
Str +4
Con +2
Int –2
Wis +2
LA +1
if size increases, CR +1

If the Base Creature was of Small or Medium size, its size is increased by one category, with all the appropriate changes to its ability scores, etc., plus a +10’ improvement to base movement.
These changes are in addition to the bonuses and penalties listed.
Darkvision 60’.
Gain the Scent ability.
+2 Racial bonus on Search, Spot, & Listen checks.
Gain a 1d6 Gore attack (if Medium).
+4 bonus on checks to escape a Maze spell & always know which direction is North.

Edit: Damn, Orenmir beated me to it. ;)
Orenmir
11-21-07, 10:31 AM Here you go. I don't remember where I have found it though. And it's LA+1. But that's the best I can do.

Edit: Damn, Orenmir beated me to it. ;)

Yeah, that's the broken template from Dragon Mag. A DM would be sleeping if he let this slip into a game. As Large size, adjust the LA to a total of +3 and it might be balanced, maybe underpowered (+2 for Medium).
tenguroEd
11-21-07, 10:36 AM I know this isn't really a template, but there is a minotaur bloodline in unearthed Arcana on pg.29. In a way it's like having a half-template. Sorry if this doesn't help.
celestialkin
11-21-07, 11:07 AM The template is from Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/downloads/v5748btpy7zvq&source=search).

http://paizo.com/image/product/magazine_issue/dragon/313/cover180.jpg

Is it really that unbalanced? So far I have used it twice as cohorts in my two most recent campaigns, and it hasn't caused any problems. Neither my DMs nor the other players have ever complained, and it hasn't been doing nearly as much damage as most of the other players.
Essex
11-21-07, 12:34 PM Use the Half-Orc from the PHB and simply say that he has fur, hooves, and useless vestigial horns.
Mindolin
11-21-07, 12:41 PM Use the minotaur race from Dragonlance. They are level adjustment +0.
Eerongal
11-21-07, 12:55 PM You could always apply the minotaur bloodline from UA to a human or something. From a flavor perspective, it could easily be called half minotaur, there's no LA, but there is bloodline levels you have to take. Also, it doesn't give you too much, being a minor bloodline.
Orenmir
11-21-07, 01:45 PM The template is from Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/downloads/v5748btpy7zvq&source=search).

Is it really that unbalanced?

Well, let's see....

If you are taking the template as a medium creature, here's what you gain:

Large Size
10' reach/space
-1 AC and Attacks
+12 Str
-2 Dex
+6 Con
-2 Int
+2 Wis
+4 Natural Armor
+10 Speed
Track
Scent
Darkvision 60'
+2 Spot, Listen, Search
Extra Attack: d8 Gore

...All for LA +2!!!! Yeah, that's a bit overpowered.
celestialkin
11-21-07, 02:15 PM Well, let's see....

If you are taking the template as a medium creature, here's what you gain:

Large Size
10' reach/space
-1 AC and Attacks
+12 Str
-2 Dex
+6 Con
-2 Int
+2 Wis
+4 Natural Armor
+10 Speed
Track
Scent
Darkvision 60'
+2 Spot, Listen, Search
Extra Attack: d8 Gore

...All for LA +2!!!! Yeah, that's a bit overpowered.

Wait. +12 Str, +6 Con, +2 Wis, and +4 natural Armor?! Are you sure we are talking about the same template?

Coping straight from my copy of Dragon #313 a half-minotaur has:

Large Size
10' reach/space
-1 AC and Attacks
+4 Str
+-0 Dex
+2 Con
-2 Int
+/-0 Wis
+2 Natural Armor
+10 Speed
Track
Scent
Darkvision 60'
+2 Spot, Listen, Search
Extra Attack: d8 Gore
Mr_Teapot
11-21-07, 02:31 PM Wait. +12 Str, +6 Con, +2 Wis, and +4 natural Armor?! Are you sure we are talking about the same template?

Coping straight from my copy of Dragon #313 a half-minotaur has:

Large Size
10' reach/space
-1 AC and Attacks
+4 Str
+-0 Dex
+2 Con
-2 Int
+/-0 Wis
+2 Natural Armor
+10 Speed
Track
Scent
Darkvision 60'
+2 Spot, Listen, Search
Extra Attack: d8 Gore

Then you apply the Changes to Statistics by Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableChangestoStat isticsbySize), according to the article. Which is pretty much what makes the template so broken.

I am convinced that the LA listed is a typo, as elsewhere in the Half Minotaur writeup it is called a "Half-Ogre", suggesting the template was initially copied and pasted and then modified from the Half Ogre in the same article (which has a more balanced LA +1).

I suggest you either use the Dragonlance minotaurs, reflavored half-orcs or the Minotaur Savage species progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202).
tenguroEd
11-21-07, 02:43 PM You could always apply the minotaur bloodline from UA to a human or something. From a flavor perspective, it could easily be called half minotaur, there's no LA, but there is bloodline levels you have to take. Also, it doesn't give you too much, being a minor bloodline.

I already suggested that. I'm guessing since nobody quoted me or said anything about it, I guess its not good enough*shrug* oh well, I thought it was a good suggestion, so did you.
celestialkin
11-21-07, 02:53 PM Then you apply the Changes to Statistics by Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableChangestoStat isticsbySize), according to the article. Which is pretty much what makes the template so broken.

I am convinced that the LA listed is a typo, as elsewhere in the Half Minotaur writeup it is called a "Half-Ogre", suggesting the template was initially copied and pasted and then modified from the Half Ogre in the same article (which has a more balanced LA +1).

I suggest you either use the Dragonlance minotaurs, reflavored half-orcs or the Minotaur Savage species progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202).

OK, that is pretty broken. Thank you for correcting my huge mistake.

However, I have been (accidentally) using the template without the benefits from the size progression, and it seems to fit in well with the parties I have used them in. I will go over this mistake with my DMs, but I am confident they will allow me to continue using the template as it is.
Thief_of_Hope
11-23-07, 12:58 AM You might find something if you poke around the boards enough. I personally haven't found any half-minotuar templates (other than the Drag Mag one that always comes up), but I have come across a rather nice LA +0 Minotaur race. Take a look if you're interested:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=569409

I'm playing one right now. It doesn't seem at all overpowered, and the paragon levels are a nice addition. Later in the thread someone else posted their own low-LA Minotaur race if this one doesn't suit your fancy.

Good luck!
Grizzled Gryphon
11-23-07, 10:37 PM Use the minotaur race from Dragonlance. They are level adjustment +0.

And is just as broken than the template. Well, before you add the size adjustments, anyway. They have a +4 to str, amongst other very nice additions.
Mindolin
11-24-07, 08:59 PM I don't believe I ever mentioned balance. My group usually disregards balance for things that were created by anyone who gets paid to do it. Mostly because I powergame as second nature, and I'm the DM, so they need something to help them.
Count Arioch the 28th
11-25-07, 06:51 PM Mindolin, you will find it wiser to ignore it when the boards people say something is "broken".

Basically, the average person here has a knee-jerk reaction to everything, and insists that how WotC writes things is perfect.

The +2 LA for the half minotaur template isn't broken at all, people just think it is because drow are LA +2, and drow are weak. (In fact, the correct answer is to drop Drow to LA +1, but most people won't do that.)
The_Shaman
11-25-07, 09:26 PM I thought the stats were about right, but the "all the approximate changes" messed things up. If it got ONLY the stat modifiers mentioned in the template, + the speed and reach increase, it would be a powerful but tolerable +1
Grizzled Gryphon
11-26-07, 05:28 PM Hey, just because I said that the Dragonlance Minotuars are broken doesn't mean they are bad. I use them myself!!

Anyway, Mindolar, you say you are a powergamer. Have you looked at the Gestalt option from Unerathed Arcana? This really helps with the powergaming problem for the players. I use it and the weapon group option, too. If you want to give them a little bit more of a boost, let them use the flaws option, too.
Mindolin
11-26-07, 06:21 PM It's MindolIN, I am about to go gestalt because it fits the flavor of the campaign, I don't like the weapons groups, so they aren't used, and Flaws are already allowed. I allow anything from D&D books. Actually, I have never had anyone attempt to play as the Dragonlance Minotaurs, mostly because of the prejudice against them in my group.

Thanks for the advice Count Arioch, but I actually meant that post as light hearted, not as being defensive.
Grizzled Gryphon
11-26-07, 09:33 PM Oops, sorry, Mindolin. I had a creature with the name of Mindolar on the brain, apparently.

I had to edit this just to point out the unintended pun I made with that last statement...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheSuspect 11-21-07, 09:47 AM	Hey everyone. So, in my new campaign, along with my Saurian Race, there are also Half-Minotaurs. Sworn enemies of the Minotaur Race, Half-Minotaurs (Called the Taurus race) are nomadic mercenaries. They appear to be Minotauric in nature, but they are in fact the magicly evolved form off a different creature. Can anyone recomend me a base, balanced, cool Half-Minotaur Race Temple, with preference with one with LA+0, so I can use him off the bat? Thanks everyone
Orenmir 11-21-07, 10:24 AM	Hey everyone. So, in my new campaign, along with my Saurian Race, there are also Half-Minotaurs. Sworn enemies of the Minotaur Race, Half-Minotaurs (Called the Taurus race) are nomadic mercenaries. They appear to be Minotauric in nature, but they are in fact the magicly evolved form off a different creature. Can anyone recomend me a base, balanced, cool Half-Minotaur Race Temple, with preference with one with LA+0, so I can use him off the bat? Thanks everyone For LA +0, you're just not going to find one in the books or mags. I'd suggest you take the broken Half-Minotaur template from Dragon Magazine 313 and fix it, then tweak it. Maybe something like: Str +2 Int -2 Cha -2 (for being so ugly!) Medium Size Low-Light Vision +2 to escape a maze (flavor) Must be Chaotic +2 Search, Spot, Listen For LA +0, that's all you're gonna get. It basically looks like the Half-Orc stats, with low-light instead of darkvision and Search/Spot/Listen to balance -- although, that might be a bit strong. One way to ensure it's perfectly balanced is to just use the Half-Orc stats as is and reflavor it!
Tema69 11-21-07, 10:24 AM	Here you go. I don't remember where I have found it though. And it's LA+1. But that's the best I can do. Inherited Template that can be added to any Small-sized to Huge-sized Giant, Humanoid, or Monstrous Humanoid. Usually has a Chaotic alignment. Gain Feat: Track. Natural Armor +2 Str +4 Con +2 Int –2 Wis +2 LA +1 if size increases, CR +1 If the Base Creature was of Small or Medium size, its size is increased by one category, with all the appropriate changes to its ability scores, etc., plus a +10’ improvement to base movement. These changes are in addition to the bonuses and penalties listed. Darkvision 60’. Gain the Scent ability. +2 Racial bonus on Search, Spot, & Listen checks. Gain a 1d6 Gore attack (if Medium). +4 bonus on checks to escape a Maze spell & always know which direction is North. Edit: Damn, Orenmir beated me to it. ;)
Orenmir 11-21-07, 10:31 AM	Here you go. I don't remember where I have found it though. And it's LA+1. But that's the best I can do. Edit: Damn, Orenmir beated me to it. ;) Yeah, that's the broken template from Dragon Mag. A DM would be sleeping if he let this slip into a game. As Large size, adjust the LA to a total of +3 and it might be balanced, maybe underpowered (+2 for Medium).
tenguroEd 11-21-07, 10:36 AM	I know this isn't really a template, but there is a minotaur bloodline in unearthed Arcana on pg.29. In a way it's like having a half-template. Sorry if this doesn't help.
celestialkin 11-21-07, 11:07 AM	The template is from Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/downloads/v5748btpy7zvq&source=search). http://paizo.com/image/product/magazine_issue/dragon/313/cover180.jpg Is it really that unbalanced? So far I have used it twice as cohorts in my two most recent campaigns, and it hasn't caused any problems. Neither my DMs nor the other players have ever complained, and it hasn't been doing nearly as much damage as most of the other players.
Essex 11-21-07, 12:34 PM	Use the Half-Orc from the PHB and simply say that he has fur, hooves, and useless vestigial horns.
Mindolin 11-21-07, 12:41 PM	Use the minotaur race from Dragonlance. They are level adjustment +0.
Eerongal 11-21-07, 12:55 PM	You could always apply the minotaur bloodline from UA to a human or something. From a flavor perspective, it could easily be called half minotaur, there's no LA, but there is bloodline levels you have to take. Also, it doesn't give you too much, being a minor bloodline.
Orenmir 11-21-07, 01:45 PM	The template is from Dragon #313 (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/downloads/v5748btpy7zvq&source=search). Is it really that unbalanced? Well, let's see.... If you are taking the template as a medium creature, here's what you gain: Large Size 10' reach/space -1 AC and Attacks +12 Str -2 Dex +6 Con -2 Int +2 Wis +4 Natural Armor +10 Speed Track Scent Darkvision 60' +2 Spot, Listen, Search Extra Attack: d8 Gore ...All for LA +2!!!! Yeah, that's a bit overpowered.
celestialkin 11-21-07, 02:15 PM	Well, let's see.... If you are taking the template as a medium creature, here's what you gain: Large Size 10' reach/space -1 AC and Attacks +12 Str -2 Dex +6 Con -2 Int +2 Wis +4 Natural Armor +10 Speed Track Scent Darkvision 60' +2 Spot, Listen, Search Extra Attack: d8 Gore ...All for LA +2!!!! Yeah, that's a bit overpowered. Wait. +12 Str, +6 Con, +2 Wis, and +4 natural Armor?! Are you sure we are talking about the same template? Coping straight from my copy of Dragon #313 a half-minotaur has: Large Size 10' reach/space -1 AC and Attacks +4 Str +-0 Dex +2 Con -2 Int +/-0 Wis +2 Natural Armor +10 Speed Track Scent Darkvision 60' +2 Spot, Listen, Search Extra Attack: d8 Gore
Mr_Teapot 11-21-07, 02:31 PM	Wait. +12 Str, +6 Con, +2 Wis, and +4 natural Armor?! Are you sure we are talking about the same template? Coping straight from my copy of Dragon #313 a half-minotaur has: Large Size 10' reach/space -1 AC and Attacks +4 Str +-0 Dex +2 Con -2 Int +/-0 Wis +2 Natural Armor +10 Speed Track Scent Darkvision 60' +2 Spot, Listen, Search Extra Attack: d8 Gore Then you apply the Changes to Statistics by Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableChangestoStat isticsbySize), according to the article. Which is pretty much what makes the template so broken. I am convinced that the LA listed is a typo, as elsewhere in the Half Minotaur writeup it is called a "Half-Ogre", suggesting the template was initially copied and pasted and then modified from the Half Ogre in the same article (which has a more balanced LA +1). I suggest you either use the Dragonlance minotaurs, reflavored half-orcs or the Minotaur Savage species progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202).
tenguroEd 11-21-07, 02:43 PM	You could always apply the minotaur bloodline from UA to a human or something. From a flavor perspective, it could easily be called half minotaur, there's no LA, but there is bloodline levels you have to take. Also, it doesn't give you too much, being a minor bloodline. I already suggested that. I'm guessing since nobody quoted me or said anything about it, I guess its not good enoughshrug oh well, I thought it was a good suggestion, so did you.
celestialkin 11-21-07, 02:53 PM	Then you apply the Changes to Statistics by Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#tableChangestoStat isticsbySize), according to the article. Which is pretty much what makes the template so broken. I am convinced that the LA listed is a typo, as elsewhere in the Half Minotaur writeup it is called a "Half-Ogre", suggesting the template was initially copied and pasted and then modified from the Half Ogre in the same article (which has a more balanced LA +1). I suggest you either use the Dragonlance minotaurs, reflavored half-orcs or the Minotaur Savage species progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202). OK, that is pretty broken. Thank you for correcting my huge mistake. However, I have been (accidentally) using the template without the benefits from the size progression, and it seems to fit in well with the parties I have used them in. I will go over this mistake with my DMs, but I am confident they will allow me to continue using the template as it is.
Thief_of_Hope 11-23-07, 12:58 AM	You might find something if you poke around the boards enough. I personally haven't found any half-minotuar templates (other than the Drag Mag one that always comes up), but I have come across a rather nice LA +0 Minotaur race. Take a look if you're interested: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=569409 I'm playing one right now. It doesn't seem at all overpowered, and the paragon levels are a nice addition. Later in the thread someone else posted their own low-LA Minotaur race if this one doesn't suit your fancy. Good luck!
Grizzled Gryphon 11-23-07, 10:37 PM	Use the minotaur race from Dragonlance. They are level adjustment +0. And is just as broken than the template. Well, before you add the size adjustments, anyway. They have a +4 to str, amongst other very nice additions.
Mindolin 11-24-07, 08:59 PM	I don't believe I ever mentioned balance. My group usually disregards balance for things that were created by anyone who gets paid to do it. Mostly because I powergame as second nature, and I'm the DM, so they need something to help them.
Count Arioch the 28th 11-25-07, 06:51 PM	Mindolin, you will find it wiser to ignore it when the boards people say something is "broken". Basically, the average person here has a knee-jerk reaction to everything, and insists that how WotC writes things is perfect. The +2 LA for the half minotaur template isn't broken at all, people just think it is because drow are LA +2, and drow are weak. (In fact, the correct answer is to drop Drow to LA +1, but most people won't do that.)
The_Shaman 11-25-07, 09:26 PM	I thought the stats were about right, but the "all the approximate changes" messed things up. If it got ONLY the stat modifiers mentioned in the template, + the speed and reach increase, it would be a powerful but tolerable +1
Grizzled Gryphon 11-26-07, 05:28 PM	Hey, just because I said that the Dragonlance Minotuars are broken doesn't mean they are bad. I use them myself!! Anyway, Mindolar, you say you are a powergamer. Have you looked at the Gestalt option from Unerathed Arcana? This really helps with the powergaming problem for the players. I use it and the weapon group option, too. If you want to give them a little bit more of a boost, let them use the flaws option, too.
Mindolin 11-26-07, 06:21 PM	It's MindolIN, I am about to go gestalt because it fits the flavor of the campaign, I don't like the weapons groups, so they aren't used, and Flaws are already allowed. I allow anything from D&D books. Actually, I have never had anyone attempt to play as the Dragonlance Minotaurs, mostly because of the prejudice against them in my group. Thanks for the advice Count Arioch, but I actually meant that post as light hearted, not as being defensive.
Grizzled Gryphon 11-26-07, 09:33 PM	Oops, sorry, Mindolin. I had a creature with the name of Mindolar on the brain, apparently. I had to edit this just to point out the unintended pun I made with that last statement...