Need help balancing starter race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help balancing starter race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lluks
12-04-07, 06:37 PM okay, so I wanna make a race without a level adjustment, but I want it to be balanced. Here's what I have so far:

regeneration 1 (fire and acid deal damage normally)
*note: if they take nonlethal damage equal to their current HP, they stop regenerating. Any damage taken in excess of their current HP is treated as lethal damage, though this does not have any bearing on nonlethal damage taken previously.*
-2 Wisdom
Favored Class: Monk
Medium size
30 ft speed
Double food requirements
no aging or maximum life span, adulthood at age 18

Any suggestions?

[EDIT]

Two more details I just remembered:

They do not age or have a maximum life span, but in order to maintain their extremely powerful and completely regenerative metabolism, they have to eat twice as often as normal characters.
[EDIT]
Took out the +2 Con, as their immune system isn't stronger, but their metabolism is. The Savage Species says that unbalanced stat modifiers are worth +1 level adjustment, so why not -1 if they are unbalanced UNfavorably, eh?

[EDIT] limited the regeneration so that he can only take so much Non lethal damage before he starts taking lethal.
Jorda_The_Knight
12-04-07, 06:47 PM Ah dear lord! No regeneration if you want it to gave an LA of anything less than 1. Regeneration of even 1 allows the creature to take all damage not of it's regeneration bypassing type as non-lethal damage. That means that you could stab this type of character in the chest for what should be nearly lethal damage and with a single Cure Minor Wounds spell he's up and running at full power. I'm not sure what would make a good alternative, as even DR 5 usually comes with a +1 LA of it's own.
Lluks
12-04-07, 06:52 PM Ah dear lord! No regeneration if you want it to gave an LA of anything less than 1. Regeneration of even 1 allows the creature to take all damage not of it's regeneration bypassing type as non-lethal damage. That means that you could stab this type of character in the chest for what should be nearly lethal damage and with a single Cure Minor Wounds spell he's up and running at full power. I'm not sure what would make a good alternative, as even DR 5 usually comes with a +1 LA of it's own.

I want to keep the regeneration, so that's why I came here for suggestions. I might consider making it like the Dragon Shaman's Vigor Aura, making them regenerate up to half health. Still, if I could keep regeneration one and find an adequate drawback that fit the flavor, I'd want to go with that. (Regeneration 1 starts to be less and less relevant after so many levels).
Radiun
12-04-07, 06:56 PM they have to eat twice as often as normal characters.

I don't think that would really matter... ever as it would tend to be glossed over 3/4 of the time.

I was rereading Monster Manuals from 2e and something struck me as interesting.

I believe it was a mold called the carapace.
I loved the flavour but instead of dragging you through all that I'll get to the main point.

The carapace granted regeneration, but should it ever regenerate more than 3d6 points of damage in one day, it's host would suffer 1 point of Con damage/drain. Something along those lines
Lluks
12-04-07, 07:22 PM I don't think that would really matter... ever as it would tend to be glossed over 3/4 of the time.

I was rereading Monster Manuals from 2e and something struck me as interesting.

I believe it was a mold called the carapace.
I loved the flavour but instead of dragging you through all that I'll get to the main point.

The carapace granted regeneration, but should it ever regenerate more than 3d6 points of damage in one day, it's host would suffer 1 point of Con damage/drain. Something along those lines

Personally, as DM, if it were a specific requirement, I would make the player have to specifically keep track of meals, say eating 2x the trail rations per day, or having to eat at least Good quality meals (see PHB) each day.
Cyruscore
12-04-07, 07:51 PM I know this wasn't part of your question but if you are planning on making monk the favored class, -2 Wis doesn't make sense unless you are doing it intentionally.

As for your question, you could take another -2 or -4 to some stat/s. If you don't want to do that then maybe make healing spells half as effective on them since their metabolism is strong enough to resist any kind of magical influence.
Lluks
12-04-07, 08:26 PM I know this wasn't part of your question but if you are planning on making monk the favored class, -2 Wis doesn't make sense unless you are doing it intentionally.

As for your question, you could take another -2 or -4 to some stat/s. If you don't want to do that then maybe make healing spells half as effective on them since their metabolism is strong enough to resist any kind of magical influence.

Yeah, the Wisdom thing is intentional. It's a result of their reckless tendency, as the race tends to think they are unkillable (and they are partly right).

I'd still like to know what some others think, but those are some good ideas.

Maybe I could take out the +2 to constitution, as their metabolism is fast but their bone structure, nervous system, and immune system is otherwise similar to a human's. Yeah, I'll go ahead and do that.
Lluks
12-04-07, 08:34 PM Actually, as a note toward the wisdom thing, this race is a half-breed, and one half of them used to have claws, and so the tendency towards monk is a sort of residual instinct to use their body as weapon over blades or whatnot. Since their stats directly conflict the choice of Monk, I figure this is a drawback, and the savage species says something about favored classes that conflict with a monster's abilities being worth consideration in determining level adjusment.
Lluks
12-05-07, 12:10 AM Maybe I could say that the creature does not regenerate if it has nonlethal damage equal to it's current HP, and any damage it takes in excess of it's maximum HP is treated as lethal damage. So yes, he does regenerate, but it's not too broken.
VanGrue
12-05-07, 03:12 AM I'd say try and make a regenerative power kick in when the character is below half his total HP or something. I think that Draconic Aura that was referenced is actually Fast Healing X (where X is the number of points of the aura, so starting off it'd be 1) when under half-HP.

If you want LA +0, it can't be something that keeps the character from being killed so easily. Just as having DR 10 at level 1 would be unbalanced.

Maybe you should consider fast-healing for special conditions, like being under half-HP, which could be activated a certain number of times per day?
Regeneration allows a lost limb to be reattached. Fast-healing doesn't. Regeneration is more powerful, and is definitely not suitable for a balanced race no matter what, unless you were to give the race enough penalties, in which case it probably wouldn't be any fun to play.
ArochanoX
12-05-07, 06:25 AM There are a million regeneration race tryouts in the forums. Try searching for "trollblooded", "half-troll" or something like that.

For you, I suggest regeneration 1/minute or even 1/hour, or maybe character level / hour. It's less powerful in combat than full regeneration 1.

Then the damage types that aren't regenerated. Fire and acid are common among the player characters, but very uncommon among normal monsters and NPC:s. You should think about options like slashing, piercing and bludgeoning damage and also damage from magic weapons. Now even an animal could kill the beastie you've posted, but not too easily.

And as for the stat's balance. I think that the creature should have a -2 to dexterity. Why? For mechanical reasons: the beastie has basically endless hitpoints, make it more vulnerable to take damage. And it can suit the beastie fluff-wise too: the creature is stiff and regenerating, but rather slow.
ff6shadow
12-05-07, 07:52 AM Maybe have the ability scale by level.

Maybe at 1-5, he gets Fast Healing 2 if reduced to under half HP, restoring him up to a max of half hp.
At level 6-10, he has Fast Healing 5 if reduced to under half HP, restoring him up to a max of half hp.
For 11-15 make the healing equal to his character level.
And at 16-20, he's finally ready for the actual regeneration. Making a decent number like 5 probably isn't nearly as broken at this point either.

I also like the -2 Dex as well.
Lluks
12-06-07, 08:45 PM Maybe I could say that the creature does not regenerate if it has nonlethal damage equal to it's current HP, and any damage it takes in excess of it's maximum HP is treated as lethal damage. So yes, he does regenerate, but it's not too broken.

I went ahead and did that: see above.
Saiyamantis
12-07-07, 12:04 AM Dexterity is just as important for a monk as Wisdom. I'd penalize either Intelligence or Charisma, as the more bestial races aren't known for either- look at Shifters in Eberron.
For that matter, the shifting ability might be a good base to build your regeneration ability from.
Lluks
12-11-07, 06:06 PM how does the shifting ability work?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lluks 12-04-07, 06:37 PM	okay, so I wanna make a race without a level adjustment, but I want it to be balanced. Here's what I have so far: regeneration 1 (fire and acid deal damage normally) note: if they take nonlethal damage equal to their current HP, they stop regenerating. Any damage taken in excess of their current HP is treated as lethal damage, though this does not have any bearing on nonlethal damage taken previously. -2 Wisdom Favored Class: Monk Medium size 30 ft speed Double food requirements no aging or maximum life span, adulthood at age 18 Any suggestions? [EDIT] Two more details I just remembered: They do not age or have a maximum life span, but in order to maintain their extremely powerful and completely regenerative metabolism, they have to eat twice as often as normal characters. [EDIT] Took out the +2 Con, as their immune system isn't stronger, but their metabolism is. The Savage Species says that unbalanced stat modifiers are worth +1 level adjustment, so why not -1 if they are unbalanced UNfavorably, eh? [EDIT] limited the regeneration so that he can only take so much Non lethal damage before he starts taking lethal.
Jorda_The_Knight 12-04-07, 06:47 PM	Ah dear lord! No regeneration if you want it to gave an LA of anything less than 1. Regeneration of even 1 allows the creature to take all damage not of it's regeneration bypassing type as non-lethal damage. That means that you could stab this type of character in the chest for what should be nearly lethal damage and with a single Cure Minor Wounds spell he's up and running at full power. I'm not sure what would make a good alternative, as even DR 5 usually comes with a +1 LA of it's own.
Lluks 12-04-07, 06:52 PM	Ah dear lord! No regeneration if you want it to gave an LA of anything less than 1. Regeneration of even 1 allows the creature to take all damage not of it's regeneration bypassing type as non-lethal damage. That means that you could stab this type of character in the chest for what should be nearly lethal damage and with a single Cure Minor Wounds spell he's up and running at full power. I'm not sure what would make a good alternative, as even DR 5 usually comes with a +1 LA of it's own. I want to keep the regeneration, so that's why I came here for suggestions. I might consider making it like the Dragon Shaman's Vigor Aura, making them regenerate up to half health. Still, if I could keep regeneration one and find an adequate drawback that fit the flavor, I'd want to go with that. (Regeneration 1 starts to be less and less relevant after so many levels).
Radiun 12-04-07, 06:56 PM	they have to eat twice as often as normal characters. I don't think that would really matter... ever as it would tend to be glossed over 3/4 of the time. I was rereading Monster Manuals from 2e and something struck me as interesting. I believe it was a mold called the carapace. I loved the flavour but instead of dragging you through all that I'll get to the main point. The carapace granted regeneration, but should it ever regenerate more than 3d6 points of damage in one day, it's host would suffer 1 point of Con damage/drain. Something along those lines
Lluks 12-04-07, 07:22 PM	I don't think that would really matter... ever as it would tend to be glossed over 3/4 of the time. I was rereading Monster Manuals from 2e and something struck me as interesting. I believe it was a mold called the carapace. I loved the flavour but instead of dragging you through all that I'll get to the main point. The carapace granted regeneration, but should it ever regenerate more than 3d6 points of damage in one day, it's host would suffer 1 point of Con damage/drain. Something along those lines Personally, as DM, if it were a specific requirement, I would make the player have to specifically keep track of meals, say eating 2x the trail rations per day, or having to eat at least Good quality meals (see PHB) each day.
Cyruscore 12-04-07, 07:51 PM	I know this wasn't part of your question but if you are planning on making monk the favored class, -2 Wis doesn't make sense unless you are doing it intentionally. As for your question, you could take another -2 or -4 to some stat/s. If you don't want to do that then maybe make healing spells half as effective on them since their metabolism is strong enough to resist any kind of magical influence.
Lluks 12-04-07, 08:26 PM	I know this wasn't part of your question but if you are planning on making monk the favored class, -2 Wis doesn't make sense unless you are doing it intentionally. As for your question, you could take another -2 or -4 to some stat/s. If you don't want to do that then maybe make healing spells half as effective on them since their metabolism is strong enough to resist any kind of magical influence. Yeah, the Wisdom thing is intentional. It's a result of their reckless tendency, as the race tends to think they are unkillable (and they are partly right). I'd still like to know what some others think, but those are some good ideas. Maybe I could take out the +2 to constitution, as their metabolism is fast but their bone structure, nervous system, and immune system is otherwise similar to a human's. Yeah, I'll go ahead and do that.
Lluks 12-04-07, 08:34 PM	Actually, as a note toward the wisdom thing, this race is a half-breed, and one half of them used to have claws, and so the tendency towards monk is a sort of residual instinct to use their body as weapon over blades or whatnot. Since their stats directly conflict the choice of Monk, I figure this is a drawback, and the savage species says something about favored classes that conflict with a monster's abilities being worth consideration in determining level adjusment.
Lluks 12-05-07, 12:10 AM	Maybe I could say that the creature does not regenerate if it has nonlethal damage equal to it's current HP, and any damage it takes in excess of it's maximum HP is treated as lethal damage. So yes, he does regenerate, but it's not too broken.
VanGrue 12-05-07, 03:12 AM	I'd say try and make a regenerative power kick in when the character is below half his total HP or something. I think that Draconic Aura that was referenced is actually Fast Healing X (where X is the number of points of the aura, so starting off it'd be 1) when under half-HP. If you want LA +0, it can't be something that keeps the character from being killed so easily. Just as having DR 10 at level 1 would be unbalanced. Maybe you should consider fast-healing for special conditions, like being under half-HP, which could be activated a certain number of times per day? Regeneration allows a lost limb to be reattached. Fast-healing doesn't. Regeneration is more powerful, and is definitely not suitable for a balanced race no matter what, unless you were to give the race enough penalties, in which case it probably wouldn't be any fun to play.
ArochanoX 12-05-07, 06:25 AM	There are a million regeneration race tryouts in the forums. Try searching for "trollblooded", "half-troll" or something like that. For you, I suggest regeneration 1/minute or even 1/hour, or maybe character level / hour. It's less powerful in combat than full regeneration 1. Then the damage types that aren't regenerated. Fire and acid are common among the player characters, but very uncommon among normal monsters and NPC:s. You should think about options like slashing, piercing and bludgeoning damage and also damage from magic weapons. Now even an animal could kill the beastie you've posted, but not too easily. And as for the stat's balance. I think that the creature should have a -2 to dexterity. Why? For mechanical reasons: the beastie has basically endless hitpoints, make it more vulnerable to take damage. And it can suit the beastie fluff-wise too: the creature is stiff and regenerating, but rather slow.
ff6shadow 12-05-07, 07:52 AM	Maybe have the ability scale by level. Maybe at 1-5, he gets Fast Healing 2 if reduced to under half HP, restoring him up to a max of half hp. At level 6-10, he has Fast Healing 5 if reduced to under half HP, restoring him up to a max of half hp. For 11-15 make the healing equal to his character level. And at 16-20, he's finally ready for the actual regeneration. Making a decent number like 5 probably isn't nearly as broken at this point either. I also like the -2 Dex as well.
Lluks 12-06-07, 08:45 PM	Maybe I could say that the creature does not regenerate if it has nonlethal damage equal to it's current HP, and any damage it takes in excess of it's maximum HP is treated as lethal damage. So yes, he does regenerate, but it's not too broken. I went ahead and did that: see above.
Saiyamantis 12-07-07, 12:04 AM	Dexterity is just as important for a monk as Wisdom. I'd penalize either Intelligence or Charisma, as the more bestial races aren't known for either- look at Shifters in Eberron. For that matter, the shifting ability might be a good base to build your regeneration ability from.
Lluks 12-11-07, 06:06 PM	how does the shifting ability work?