Need help choosing race for a Beguiler..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help choosing race for a Beguiler..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OutlawJT
03-09-07, 02:59 PM I am going to be playing a Beguiler in a campaign starting this Sunday and am torn as to which race to play. We are restricted to PHB only races. The stats I have to work with are 16,15,14,13,10,10. Given the Beguiler class, these base stats, and PHB only for race selection what race would everyone play and why? Any and all advice is appreciated.
Grod_The_Giant
03-09-07, 03:08 PM Human? Humans are good at everything. A halfling or elf (preferably halfling) would be good too, for the added Dex.
EvilVegan
03-09-07, 03:18 PM I am going to be playing a Beguiler in a campaign starting this Sunday and am torn as to which race to play. We are restricted to PHB only races. The stats I have to work with are 16,15,14,13,10,10. Given the Beguiler class, these base stats, and PHB only for race selection what race would everyone play and why? Any and all advice is appreciated.

OMG !!!!! Gnome!

Reasons:

Higher con of gnome combined with greater AC (small size) makes them more likely to survive in melee to use the beguiler feint abilities.

Beguiler has access to several illusions, gnomes like illusions.

Beguiler can (with some creative PrC dipping) qualify for Shadowcraft mage, the bestest PRC ever and it's only for gnomes.

Beguilers don't need the extra skill point from human, nor the feat. They're int based and they have crazy high skill points to begin with. What feat do you need? Combat expertise and improved feint, or metamagics? You don't need too many feats to be a successful beguiler.

Flavor wise a gnome beguiler is a better fit than a gnomish bard.
RobbyPants
03-09-07, 03:42 PM If it's PHB only, then I'd go with human or gnome for the reasons posted above. If it's core only, you might think of a grey elf (both in the DMG and MM). They're like elves, but they get a Str penalty and an Int boost. You'd probably have to run that one by your DM though...
Saxis
03-09-07, 04:07 PM If just PHB, then I'd say Gnome also. If you can use anything in core, then I like the Forest Gnome specifically. Pretty much all the gnome benefits, but you get an extra +4 racial bonus to hide (+8 in forests), which can also help get your Suprise Casting bonus. I'm playing a Forest Gnome Beguiler right now in a campaign and it's great! I'm going the Shadow Weave Magic and Shadowcraft Mage route...
Tommyboy
03-09-07, 04:10 PM Anything but Half orc or Dwarf would be okay, and in addition to those already mentioned Half elf could do well.
The_Shaman
03-09-07, 04:58 PM Actually, even dwarf could work out... In this case, however, I'd also go for gnome. The PrC is fantastic for a beguiler, and the gnome basic propensity for illusions is also quite nice. Plus, you're smaller and tougher, which helps with the thieving part of the class.
JarionSilverblades
03-09-07, 05:32 PM I'd have to agree, Gnome is your best bet.
MikeN
03-09-07, 06:54 PM Gnome.

Str 11
Dex 14
Con 17
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 10

Levels 1-5 Beguiler, Mindbender at 6 (CA), Beguiler for 7 and 8, then Shadowcraft Mage (RoS) and then Shadowcrafter (Underdark sourcebook).

You can put one of your 10's in Str and go with Cha 13 if you want to be more social.
The_Shaman
03-10-07, 07:12 PM Shadowcraft mage and shadowcrafter? Ouch, someone is going to get in trouble :) If you're going for overkill, how about 1-2 levels of Shadow Adept?
MikeN
03-10-07, 11:44 PM Shadowcraft mage and shadowcrafter? Ouch, someone is going to get in trouble :) If you're going for overkill, how about 1-2 levels of Shadow Adept?

Would be hard to fit it in. Could use it instead of Mindbender but then you have to either worship Shar or sacrifice some Wis (might be worthwhile depending upon the campaign).

On the plus side, you use Heighten Spell on Silent Image and it's whatever level Shadow Evoc or Shadow Conj you need...and if they disbelieve they often get hurt worse than if they believe :eek:

It's a version of a build that's been around a while on the CO boards...you just use Beguiler for flavor instead of Illusionist.
The_Shaman
03-11-07, 05:05 PM You could do it with only 1-2 levels of Shadow adept. I think Shadowcrafter is still reasonably decent without all its levels.
OutlawJT
03-12-07, 12:51 AM Both psionics and shadowcraft mage are off limits.

I decided on gnome, mostly for flavor purposes. I will miss the extra skill points, though. There are only like, 12 or 13 skills I want to keep close to current so it is a bit of a balancing act. Penalties of having to cater to two roles skill-wise with only 6+int points per level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OutlawJT 03-09-07, 02:59 PM	I am going to be playing a Beguiler in a campaign starting this Sunday and am torn as to which race to play. We are restricted to PHB only races. The stats I have to work with are 16,15,14,13,10,10. Given the Beguiler class, these base stats, and PHB only for race selection what race would everyone play and why? Any and all advice is appreciated.
Grod_The_Giant 03-09-07, 03:08 PM	Human? Humans are good at everything. A halfling or elf (preferably halfling) would be good too, for the added Dex.
EvilVegan 03-09-07, 03:18 PM	I am going to be playing a Beguiler in a campaign starting this Sunday and am torn as to which race to play. We are restricted to PHB only races. The stats I have to work with are 16,15,14,13,10,10. Given the Beguiler class, these base stats, and PHB only for race selection what race would everyone play and why? Any and all advice is appreciated. OMG !!!!! Gnome! Reasons: Higher con of gnome combined with greater AC (small size) makes them more likely to survive in melee to use the beguiler feint abilities. Beguiler has access to several illusions, gnomes like illusions. Beguiler can (with some creative PrC dipping) qualify for Shadowcraft mage, the bestest PRC ever and it's only for gnomes. Beguilers don't need the extra skill point from human, nor the feat. They're int based and they have crazy high skill points to begin with. What feat do you need? Combat expertise and improved feint, or metamagics? You don't need too many feats to be a successful beguiler. Flavor wise a gnome beguiler is a better fit than a gnomish bard.
RobbyPants 03-09-07, 03:42 PM	If it's PHB only, then I'd go with human or gnome for the reasons posted above. If it's core only, you might think of a grey elf (both in the DMG and MM). They're like elves, but they get a Str penalty and an Int boost. You'd probably have to run that one by your DM though...
Saxis 03-09-07, 04:07 PM	If just PHB, then I'd say Gnome also. If you can use anything in core, then I like the Forest Gnome specifically. Pretty much all the gnome benefits, but you get an extra +4 racial bonus to hide (+8 in forests), which can also help get your Suprise Casting bonus. I'm playing a Forest Gnome Beguiler right now in a campaign and it's great! I'm going the Shadow Weave Magic and Shadowcraft Mage route...
Tommyboy 03-09-07, 04:10 PM	Anything but Half orc or Dwarf would be okay, and in addition to those already mentioned Half elf could do well.
The_Shaman 03-09-07, 04:58 PM	Actually, even dwarf could work out... In this case, however, I'd also go for gnome. The PrC is fantastic for a beguiler, and the gnome basic propensity for illusions is also quite nice. Plus, you're smaller and tougher, which helps with the thieving part of the class.
JarionSilverblades 03-09-07, 05:32 PM	I'd have to agree, Gnome is your best bet.
MikeN 03-09-07, 06:54 PM	Gnome. Str 11 Dex 14 Con 17 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 10 Levels 1-5 Beguiler, Mindbender at 6 (CA), Beguiler for 7 and 8, then Shadowcraft Mage (RoS) and then Shadowcrafter (Underdark sourcebook). You can put one of your 10's in Str and go with Cha 13 if you want to be more social.
The_Shaman 03-10-07, 07:12 PM	Shadowcraft mage and shadowcrafter? Ouch, someone is going to get in trouble :) If you're going for overkill, how about 1-2 levels of Shadow Adept?
MikeN 03-10-07, 11:44 PM	Shadowcraft mage and shadowcrafter? Ouch, someone is going to get in trouble :) If you're going for overkill, how about 1-2 levels of Shadow Adept? Would be hard to fit it in. Could use it instead of Mindbender but then you have to either worship Shar or sacrifice some Wis (might be worthwhile depending upon the campaign). On the plus side, you use Heighten Spell on Silent Image and it's whatever level Shadow Evoc or Shadow Conj you need...and if they disbelieve they often get hurt worse than if they believe :eek: It's a version of a build that's been around a while on the CO boards...you just use Beguiler for flavor instead of Illusionist.
The_Shaman 03-11-07, 05:05 PM	You could do it with only 1-2 levels of Shadow adept. I think Shadowcrafter is still reasonably decent without all its levels.
OutlawJT 03-12-07, 12:51 AM	Both psionics and shadowcraft mage are off limits. I decided on gnome, mostly for flavor purposes. I will miss the extra skill points, though. There are only like, 12 or 13 skills I want to keep close to current so it is a bit of a balancing act. Penalties of having to cater to two roles skill-wise with only 6+int points per level.