Post/Author/DateTime	Post
monstersandpie 09-09-07, 08:57 AM	hi all, making a poison dusk pc (LA +1) with two levels of ranger. my question: does the level adjustment count toward his character levels when determining whether to give him his second feat. that is, is he level 2 and therefore will need one more before getting the feat, or do i add on the LA and count him as level 3 for this purpose? thanks all.
runestar 09-09-07, 09:51 AM	LA does not count in this respect. Use his original number of HD when determining when he gets his next feat, stat boost, max skill ranks etc.:)
monstersandpie 09-09-07, 09:54 AM	thanks for the reply. poison dusks are a d8 hit die creature, though they don't get this hit die fo HP when creating a PC. so where does this put me for my next feat, stat bonus, etc? one more thing. poison dusk have 2 claw attacks and 1 bite attack. i have two-weapon fighting, but not multiattack. what then are my attack modifiers if natural weapons count as light for two weapon fighting (so then -2 in each hand), but multiattack says 'Without this feat, the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.' lastly, is it possible to take the 3rd bite attack without multiattack or is the bite a free action?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 09-09-07, 11:11 AM	I'll see if I can clear this up... thanks for the reply. poison dusks are a d8 hit die creature, though they don't get this hit die fo HP when creating a PC. so where does this put me for my next feat, stat bonus, etc? Poison dusks are 'd8 hit die creatures.' Their 1 racial hit die (as with the PHB races) has been replaced by the ranger level, and rangers have d8 hit dice. In other words, you don't have to worry about any levels of 'humanoid', just of ranger. Build the character exactly as if it were a PHB race character, but one level lower than everyone else. If your other players are level 3, build the character as if he is level 2 except in regards to starting wealth and XP. That includes feats, skills etc. You'll get your next feat when the other players are level 4, when you will have 3 HD. one more thing. poison dusk have 2 claw attacks and 1 bite attack. i have two-weapon fighting, but not multiattack. what then are my attack modifiers if natural weapons count as light for two weapon fighting (so then -2 in each hand), but multiattack says 'Without this feat, the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.' lastly, is it possible to take the 3rd bite attack without multiattack or is the bite a free action? Natural weapons don't count as light weapons for two weapon fighting, and multiattack and TWF don't work together. Without multiattack, your attacks will be: Claw 1: Full BAB Claw 2: Full BAB Bite: BAB - 5 (1/2 Str bonus to damage) Using multiattack, your attacks will be: Claw 1: Full BAB Claw 2: Full BAB Bite: BAB - 2 (1/2 Str bonus to damage) You can only use the second claw and bite attacks during a full attack action. The bite is not a free action, and you do not need multiattack to use it (it just reduces the penalty). If you want to house rule that the claws count as light weapons for TWF, your attack bonuses will become: Claw 1: BAB - 2 Claw 2: BAB - 2 Bite: BAB - 5 (1/2 Str bonus to damage) Counting the bite as a secondary natural weapon. I suggest you talk to your DM and work out a new feat tree for the ranger in place of TWF. Something along the lines of multiattack and the rapid strike feats would work well.
monstersandpie 09-09-07, 01:07 PM	totally clear - thanks!
Neutronium_Dragon 09-09-07, 02:41 PM	When he says that two-weapon fighting doesn't apply, it's because two-weapon fighting only applies to actual weapons which you wield. Natural attack routines operate by a different set of rules. You have *no* penalties on the claw attacks, regardless of whether you have the TWF feat. The sole purpose of Multiattack is to reduce the bite penalty from -5 to -2. This assumes that you make a full attack, of course. If you're just taking the attack action (standard action) then you only get one claw attack. Also, unlike wielded weapons, you never get additional attacks due to high Base Attack Bonus when using natural weapons - at higher level, wielding weapons is generally a better idea because of this. If you're looking for a substitution for the fighting style then you should check Champions of Valor. One of the organizations therein has a set of ranger substitution levels which grants natural weapon related feats.
runestar 09-09-07, 10:00 PM	Their d8 is because the sample poison dusk lizardfolk comes with 1 lv of ranger as an example of how such an npc might be created. But you don't necessarily have to take ranger lvs. Thus, if you chose to take other class lvs, you are free to swap out that 1st of of ranger for whatever class floats your boat.:)