Negative LA races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Negative LA races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
elvegaro
08-30-07, 06:21 AM I must say I am fascinated with the idea of playing a kobold wizard or sorceror.
With the negative LA they can advance levels very quickly. And the fact that people hate them make them an interesting race to play. Much harder to get in and out of towns for instance. Hard to gain respect. A few nifty disadvantages like getting dazed by sunlight, and so on.

Are there any other races one can play which has a negative LA?
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-30-07, 06:33 AM Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans.

Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose).
elvegaro
08-30-07, 06:42 AM Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans.

Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose).

I just heard in my other thread. Sorry about the mistake *blush*

So there are no creatures with negative LA... Saddening :(
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-30-07, 06:48 AM We all make mistakes, don't worry about it. You hit a nerve and I came across harsher than I should have (I am sick to death of people who brag about how they play kobolds, when they play suped up houseruled splatbooked monstrosities that resemble kobolds about as much as a Dodge Viper resembles a Ford Pinto). I assumed you were knowingly trying to pull a fast one for free class levels, and overreacted. I apologize.

Negative LA really isn't needed though, and it wouldn't be a good idea. Class levels scale up in power exponentially if they're the right classes (any full caster), racial features generally don't. Negative LA is just too abusable. Playing a race to lean on their strengths and hide their weaknesses is generally sufficient to make them usable, even if they aren't quite up to standards (such as the half-orc).
elvegaro
08-30-07, 06:53 AM We all make mistakes, don't worry about it. You hit a nerve and I came across harsher than I should have (I am sick to death of people who brag about how they play kobolds, when they play suped up houseruled splatbooked monstrosities that resemble kobolds about as much as a Dodge Viper resembles a Ford Pinto).

Negative LA really isn't needed though, and it wouldn't be a good idea. Class levels scale up in power exponentially if they're the right classes (any full caster), racial features generally don't. Negative LA is just too abusable. Playing a race to lean on their strengths and hide their weaknesses is generally sufficient to make them usable, even if they aren't quite up to standards (such as the half-orc).

Don't worry about it. I understand your reaction perfectly well.
It makes perfect sense that negative LA would be 'illegal'.

I still want to play a Kobold though. Just for the challenge it brings with it. I don't really like the races with loads of LA. I see a lot of people here play Satyrs and the like. Sure, the racial boons are cool and all. But all in all... Usually not worth it IMHO.
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-30-07, 06:59 AM Hey, I play goblins, sometimes as frontliners. It is too funny when you play a core books only goblin barbarian, and the human paladin of tyranny complains that he's being upstaged because you work with what you have better than he does. :D
Templario
08-30-07, 04:03 PM Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans.

Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose).

What ECL an Iron Incarnate Construct Barbarian 1 would be?
Borris
08-31-07, 02:09 AM What ECL an Iron Incarnate Construct Barbarian 1 would be?
If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels.
Meep326
08-31-07, 02:42 AM If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels.
There's something in Savage Species about stating out LA for un LA stated races, you might be able to apply in to Golems, or I think somewhere they stated the LA for golems. As to the epic levels, his ECL would be epic, but as long as he took only Golem HD he would still gain 1:1 BAB progression and the save progression he had (good fort, maybe good will, and poor reflex). :)
Grumman
08-31-07, 09:56 AM There's something in Savage Species about stating out LA for un LA stated races, you might be able to apply in to Golems, or I think somewhere they stated the LA for golems.
Back in Dragon 293, they gave an Iron Golem an estimated ECL of 26. So with Incarnate Construct, this would become 24.

As to the epic levels, his ECL would be epic, but as long as he took only Golem HD he would still gain 1:1 BAB progression and the save progression he had (good fort, maybe good will, and poor reflex). :)
Constructs get 3/4 BAB and poor fort, poor will and poor reflex. Not quite as favourable.
Jonas87
08-31-07, 10:42 AM If you want a cooler Kobold pick up Races of the Dragon. It has plenty of substitution levels and feats for kobolds.

Also, what book is the incarnate construct in?
Templario
08-31-07, 11:52 AM If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels.

Awww :(

Only by savage progression then...

If you want a cooler Kobold pick up Races of the Dragon. It has plenty of substitution levels and feats for kobolds.

Also, what book is the incarnate construct in?

I think it is in Monster Manual II or Savage Species
Khadmus
08-31-07, 12:01 PM "Incarnate" suggests to me Magic of Incarnum (or whatever the incarnum book was).
Borris
08-31-07, 09:20 PM The Incarnate Construct template has nothing to do with Magic of Incarnum. It's a template from Savage Species that gives a construct a real soul and body, turning it into a fleshly humanoid or giant.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
elvegaro 08-30-07, 06:21 AM	I must say I am fascinated with the idea of playing a kobold wizard or sorceror. With the negative LA they can advance levels very quickly. And the fact that people hate them make them an interesting race to play. Much harder to get in and out of towns for instance. Hard to gain respect. A few nifty disadvantages like getting dazed by sunlight, and so on. Are there any other races one can play which has a negative LA?
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-30-07, 06:33 AM	Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans. Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose).
elvegaro 08-30-07, 06:42 AM	Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans. Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose). I just heard in my other thread. Sorry about the mistake blush So there are no creatures with negative LA... Saddening :(
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-30-07, 06:48 AM	We all make mistakes, don't worry about it. You hit a nerve and I came across harsher than I should have (I am sick to death of people who brag about how they play kobolds, when they play suped up houseruled splatbooked monstrosities that resemble kobolds about as much as a Dodge Viper resembles a Ford Pinto). I assumed you were knowingly trying to pull a fast one for free class levels, and overreacted. I apologize. Negative LA really isn't needed though, and it wouldn't be a good idea. Class levels scale up in power exponentially if they're the right classes (any full caster), racial features generally don't. Negative LA is just too abusable. Playing a race to lean on their strengths and hide their weaknesses is generally sufficient to make them usable, even if they aren't quite up to standards (such as the half-orc).
elvegaro 08-30-07, 06:53 AM	We all make mistakes, don't worry about it. You hit a nerve and I came across harsher than I should have (I am sick to death of people who brag about how they play kobolds, when they play suped up houseruled splatbooked monstrosities that resemble kobolds about as much as a Dodge Viper resembles a Ford Pinto). Negative LA really isn't needed though, and it wouldn't be a good idea. Class levels scale up in power exponentially if they're the right classes (any full caster), racial features generally don't. Negative LA is just too abusable. Playing a race to lean on their strengths and hide their weaknesses is generally sufficient to make them usable, even if they aren't quite up to standards (such as the half-orc). Don't worry about it. I understand your reaction perfectly well. It makes perfect sense that negative LA would be 'illegal'. I still want to play a Kobold though. Just for the challenge it brings with it. I don't really like the races with loads of LA. I see a lot of people here play Satyrs and the like. Sure, the racial boons are cool and all. But all in all... Usually not worth it IMHO.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-30-07, 06:59 AM	Hey, I play goblins, sometimes as frontliners. It is too funny when you play a core books only goblin barbarian, and the human paladin of tyranny complains that he's being upstaged because you work with what you have better than he does. :D
Templario 08-30-07, 04:03 PM	Kobolds don't have a negative LA. Challenge Rating does not equal Level Adjustment. Kobolds have LA +0, same as goblins, orcs, half-orcs, elves, and humans. Nothing legitimately has negative LA - the closest thing to it is the incarnate construct, which has LA -2 and even then it specifies that the minimum is 0 (useful for making further-templated incarnate constructs if you so choose). What ECL an Iron Incarnate Construct Barbarian 1 would be?
Borris 08-31-07, 02:09 AM	What ECL an Iron Incarnate Construct Barbarian 1 would be? If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels.
Meep326 08-31-07, 02:42 AM	If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels. There's something in Savage Species about stating out LA for un LA stated races, you might be able to apply in to Golems, or I think somewhere they stated the LA for golems. As to the epic levels, his ECL would be epic, but as long as he took only Golem HD he would still gain 1:1 BAB progression and the save progression he had (good fort, maybe good will, and poor reflex). :)
Grumman 08-31-07, 09:56 AM	There's something in Savage Species about stating out LA for un LA stated races, you might be able to apply in to Golems, or I think somewhere they stated the LA for golems. Back in Dragon 293, they gave an Iron Golem an estimated ECL of 26. So with Incarnate Construct, this would become 24. As to the epic levels, his ECL would be epic, but as long as he took only Golem HD he would still gain 1:1 BAB progression and the save progression he had (good fort, maybe good will, and poor reflex). :) Constructs get 3/4 BAB and poor fort, poor will and poor reflex. Not quite as favourable.
Jonas87 08-31-07, 10:42 AM	If you want a cooler Kobold pick up Races of the Dragon. It has plenty of substitution levels and feats for kobolds. Also, what book is the incarnate construct in?
Templario 08-31-07, 11:52 AM	If you're talking about an Incarnate Iron Golem, there's no way to give you an exact number. as there is no Level Adjustment given anywhere for any of the Monster Manual Golems. It'd probably be unplayable, though, as the Iron Golem already has 18 Hit Dice. And the fact that it keeps a +9 bonus to natural armor, a speed of 40 ft., 10 ft. reach, and a Strength score of 33 would earn it a Level Adjustment of at least +4, making a 1st-level Incarnate Iron Golem Barbarian around ECL 23, well into epic levels. Awww :( Only by savage progression then... If you want a cooler Kobold pick up Races of the Dragon. It has plenty of substitution levels and feats for kobolds. Also, what book is the incarnate construct in? I think it is in Monster Manual II or Savage Species
Khadmus 08-31-07, 12:01 PM	"Incarnate" suggests to me Magic of Incarnum (or whatever the incarnum book was).
Borris 08-31-07, 09:20 PM	The Incarnate Construct template has nothing to do with Magic of Incarnum. It's a template from Savage Species that gives a construct a real soul and body, turning it into a fleshly humanoid or giant.