Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Narthon 07-09-07, 09:38 PM	If/when 4.0 is released, I'd like to see some new core races with a bit of variety. Mostly, I'd like to add one tiny race and one large race. Good tiny options would be Brownie, Pixie, and Farie. The possible large races I can think of are Half-Giant and Half-Ogre. All of these would need to be adjusted as to not overpower current core races. What does everyone else think?
Confusion567 07-09-07, 10:28 PM	The reason that the Core races are all medium/small is because larger and smaller sizes get weird. Their reach is different, their space is different, they can't even come close to wearing the same equipment... And it can really mess up newer players.
Ace_of_time 07-09-07, 10:44 PM	I think they will add kobold. Like to see Illumians go in to.
AMGriffin 07-10-07, 02:17 PM	Honestly, for 4.0 I'd like to see a few more Core races. ...and half-orcs/half-elves that don't suck. Let's throw Orcs and Goblins into the mix as core races. They seem common enough. That's all I'd really ask for.
Warforged Goblin 07-10-07, 02:23 PM	Honestly, for 4.0 I'd like to see a few more Core races. ...and half-orcs/half-elves that don't suck. Let's throw Orcs and Goblins into the mix as core races. They seem common enough. That's all I'd really ask for. Seconded
GMforPowergamers 07-10-07, 02:25 PM	I woldn't mind seeing the Warforged, the 1/2 giant the asimar and the teifling being core...
Lawlicron 07-10-07, 02:30 PM	I think they will add kobold. They better add Kobold!
AMGriffin 07-10-07, 02:40 PM	Don't count on it, I honestly don't think we'd see kobolds as a common race.
Lawlicron 07-10-07, 03:07 PM	Kobolds do have a big following. But that means that they would probably just put them into some stupid 4.0 splat book. Races of the Dragon was ok though.
YabaTheWhat 07-10-07, 03:08 PM	As long as we're talking about version 4, I'd like to see a well-thought-out guide to building your own core-balanced race (i.e. a race that's balanced to play alongside the core races). It could appear in the DMGv4, rather than the PHBv4. A balanced class-builder guide might be nice too, but that's a bit more complicated. What I'd like to see most in version 4 is for them to ditch the class system altogether in favor of a system for buying individual abilities and bonuses. We'd probably see a bit more min-maxing (though perhaps not, as there's quite a bit of it already), but it would solve the class-imbalance issue as well as reigning in the publication of obscenely powerful prestige classes. The traditional classes could be represented as recommended paths of development. If designed properly, a PC's power would grow in a slow-exponential curve {power at level N = (power at level N-1) x (a fixed number between 1.15 and 1.2)} regardless of the career path they choose. Of course, it isn't like they've announced the release of version 4. At least they haven't as far as I know, though rumors of it have circulated since a month after version 3.0 was released.
zorgling25 07-10-07, 03:19 PM	If/when 4.0 is released, I'd like to see some new core races with a bit of variety. Mostly, I'd like to add one tiny race and one large race. Good tiny options would be Brownie, Pixie, and Farie. The possible large races I can think of are Half-Giant and Half-Ogre. All of these would need to be adjusted as to not overpower current core races. What does everyone else think? I doubt that these, or most of the other races suggested so far would be added as "core" races. Although half-elves and half-orcs would probably get a retool. Core races are supposed to represent the most common races to be found in civilized society. While that might vary from campaign to campaign, in you average run-of-the-mill campaign, the core races presented in the 3.5e PHB ARE the most common to be found. Whats wrong with races not being PHB races? So long as they have stats in the Monster Manual for their use as player races (or whatever they decide to rename it, since each edition seems to have had the name muddled round), do they have to be "core"?
Ace_of_time 07-10-07, 06:07 PM	I'll be happy with any race as long as they fix the rules problems. I'm tired of going to 14 different sources to find what a rule means or does.
vampiresskitten03 07-11-07, 11:05 AM	I woldn't mind seeing the Warforged, the 1/2 giant the asimar and the teifling being core... I do have a question for you though why would we ban any specialization of any thread but stuff that shouldn't be here?!? I mean this is a forum about D&D if I am correct and in any case people prolly have questions on it. I would like to see discussions about it because of the simple fact, people are intellegent creatures, we all yearn to learn more about everything. In which case I will ask another question, if we did not strive to know more would we be going to other planets now? I do not disagree on the fact that it should prolly be in another thread in another section. But if people have questions it is awesome. I have said that and now I am out. ***Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain't you. You're better than that! Rocky Balboa***
YabaTheWhat 07-11-07, 11:09 AM	{Random statements with no apparent relation to the quoted text or the conversation at hand.} Wait, what?
hazhar 07-11-07, 11:16 AM	I'm betting on Drow and Warforged becoming core races. And possibly Orcs, Goblins and/or Kobolds.
zorgling25 07-11-07, 11:24 AM	I'm betting on Drow and Warforged becoming core races. And possibly Orcs, Goblins and/or Kobolds. Referring back to my post above about most common civilized races...
hazhar 07-11-07, 11:27 AM	Referring back to my post above about most common civilized races... They'll change the flavor then to suite the new races. Warforged will be a common sight on standard D&D worlds; Drow will be more likely to be active in the world and have non-evil alignments, etc
Peregrine_Wolf 07-11-07, 11:28 AM	I would like to have all the sub-races for things- such as svirfneblin and wild elves- put in the core cooks with the other races.....would make things much easier to do when making a game centered more on one race or something like that. Also, I think half-elf and half-orc should be made more usable.....they do have some good sides, but to me, half-elves are really only good as NPC detectives or something like that.....
Kursk 07-11-07, 11:40 AM	They'll change the flavor then to suite the new races. Warforged will be a common sight on standard D&D worlds; Drow will be more likely to be active in the world and have non-evil alignments, etc Not likely at all. The further you go from vanilla races the more you need to tweak the CORE rules. Not going to happen.
zorgling25 07-11-07, 11:40 AM	Drow will be more likely to be active in the world and have non-evil alignments, etc Nooo!! More Drizzt Clones! There's too many! :P I still don't see why they have to be in the 4th ed PHB. Nonstandard races are just as accessible in the MM, or, if you don't have that, the SRD. There is no reason why these races have to be classified as "core." If someone could explain WHY its so necessary to tack this word "core" on to these races, it would be appreciated.
Kursk 07-11-07, 12:08 PM	If someone could explain WHY its so necessary to tack this word "core" on to these races, it would be appreciated. So they can tell their DM that he/she MUST allow them. No other valid reason.
zorgling25 07-11-07, 12:19 PM	So they can tell their DM that he/she MUST allow them. No other valid reason. But if Wizards made all the broken races core, they'd be forced to put enough effort into them so that they weren't broken anymore... If Pixies, for example, were core, they wouldn't be abusable, meaning half of the people who play them now wouldn't want to play them. Honestly though, I highly doubt Wizards is going to put any LA races as core, simply because LA is a secondary concept, not necessary to play the game with, and it would just mess with the minds of people just learning the game. Heck, just because a race is in the PHB doesn't mean a DM will always allow it. I've seen DMs ban Half-Elves and Half-Orcs before. If some strange, new, unfair race found its way into the PHB, I'm pretty sure most DMs would be smart enough to ban it.
Kursk 07-11-07, 12:31 PM	But if Wizards made all the broken races core, they'd be forced to put enough effort into them so that they weren't broken anymore... And there is the problem. Some people want all monsters to be PCs. Not possible.
Salla 07-11-07, 12:39 PM	So they can tell their DM that he/she MUST allow them. No other valid reason. If your DM says that a race doesn't exist in his game world, it doesn't exist. Heck, I've run games without humans. I've run games without any of the PHB races existing (or goblins, orcs, kobolds and their ilk). It'd be one thing if it were 'this race exists, yeah, but you can't play it despite the fact that it's there with an LA and a 'XXXX as characters' tab but you can't play it' ... that would be really annoying. But if the DM outright says 'this world has no XXXX', then you're SOL.
tantric 07-11-07, 12:50 PM	personally, i'd like to see all 1/2 races gone. why not just have elves and orcs? the whole 1/2 bit is from LotR anyway. make orcs like 1/2 orcs, then add smaller ogres as PC's and another fey, like pixies.
Salla 07-11-07, 12:56 PM	personally, i'd like to see all 1/2 races gone. why not just have elves and orcs? the whole 1/2 bit is from LotR anyway. make orcs like 1/2 orcs, then add smaller ogres as PC's and another fey, like pixies. Because the Tolkien fanboys would throw a fit, probably. :)
HK-47 II 07-11-07, 01:34 PM	I do have a question for you though why would we ban any specialization of any thread but stuff that shouldn't be here?!? I mean this is a forum about D&D if I am correct and in any case people prolly have questions on it. I would like to see discussions about it because of the simple fact, people are intellegent creatures, we all yearn to learn more about everything. In which case I will ask another question, if we did not strive to know more would we be going to other planets now? I do not disagree on the fact that it should prolly be in another thread in another section. But if people have questions it is awesome. I have said that and now I am out. ***Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain't you. You're better than that! Rocky Balboa*** Wait, what? I think she thought his sig was his post, understandable if you can see the sig...
AMGriffin 07-11-07, 02:08 PM	That was probably the funniest exchange I've ever seen on the wizards boards. Anyway, before anything maybe a V. 3.75 would be nice. the current rule system isn't that bad, but it would be nice to see the folks at wizards rebalance some of the races, classes, and other inconsistencies. ...Having them admit STR isn't the most important abiltiy score would be nice too.
ryuspearhead 07-11-07, 02:41 PM	human elf half elf drow kobold dwarf halfling gnome half orc half gaint orc
Lawlicron 07-11-07, 02:43 PM	Wait, I've got it. The perfect way to balance everything. Heres how it would work, you'd get points to spend on what class abilities and progression of saves you wanted. Then you can choose any race you want! No matter what kind of crazy LA they have in his system. You would just be forced to spend class ability points on your race it would be like PR: 9 for Drow or something like that. So yeah, I could see some crazy LA+1/LA+2 races being core in the future.
Manyfist 07-11-07, 03:48 PM	How about balanced monsters as players I mean, the poor Blue Goblin has an LA:+1. Tieflings have an LA:+1 and are still considered weak. I like playing monster races, and so I'd like to see them quit throwing the LAs around like its nothing. If they must be "higher level" than the PHB then give them HD instead of LA. I'd also would like to see monster HD worth a damn, for other than the Undead, and Dragon. Add like some flavor to the monsters..etc. Why are they monstrous? I say every x HD they roll for a random extra benefit to "close in" on the class levels. Like +2 more Str/Int/Cha...etc. Size increase. Size Decrease....etc. Making them not static. Fighting a WAAGH! Of level 1 Orcs gets pretty boring, however if those lvl 1 Orcs had different abilities such as a 1/day level 1 spell-like ability or some of them have extra intelligence (more skills)...etc.
zorgling25 07-11-07, 04:29 PM	Like +2 more Str/Int/Cha...etc. Size increase. Size Decrease....etc. Making them not static. Fighting a WAAGH! Of level 1 Orcs gets pretty boring, however if those lvl 1 Orcs had different abilities such as a 1/day level 1 spell-like ability or some of them have extra intelligence (more skills)...etc. This is what giving monsters PC levels is for. If you want to, you would roll new stats for every individual monster that you put in your campaigns. I personally find that much too tedious.
The Eye of Kyi 07-11-07, 04:55 PM	The cool thing about D&D is that you can pick and choose what rules you want to use in your game. Granted the more you play with it the more implications it has but overall I would rather have more choices to use as a DM than less choices. For example I hate warforged, and I am not very fond of Illumians however if they were made into core races I would consider telling my players those races didnt exist in my world. Unless of course one of my players really wanted to play one then I would allow it (I am so kind that way). :D I have been considering a campaign that did not have halflings or gnomes in it, but instead had goblins and mongrelfolk as player races. you see its all up to the DM and the players of a game. if you dont like something discuss it with your group and see how they feel about it. Remember the DM is not the game tyrant, but the moderator. The DM's world is nothing without the players to interact with it. My guess for the 4th edition is they will stick with the sacred cows of the existing races as the core races. I whole heartedly support this both from a nostalgia stand point and a playability stand point.
Manyfist 07-11-07, 05:08 PM	This is what giving monsters PC levels is for. If you want to, you would roll new stats for every individual monster that you put in your campaigns. I personally find that much too tedious. For example if you have 100 orcs, Just add +2 Str to 10 orcs..etc. Diversity would help.
zorgling25 07-11-07, 05:16 PM	For example if you have 100 orcs, Just add +2 Str to 10 orcs..etc. Diversity would help. Wait, you have encounters with just 100 ORCS!!! I think the problem is that you need a little more monster diversity in your encounters... :D
Manyfist 07-11-07, 05:19 PM	Wait, you have encounters with just 100 ORCS!!! I think the problem is that you need a little more monster diversity in your encounters... :D A 100 Orcs is nothing. They WAAGH! (Think Warhammer), and its just a hypothetically encounter. Orcs make good cannon fodder :P, I'd say that the Orcs turn into a Mob (cityscape), instead of being a mob its a WAAGH!
zorgling25 07-11-07, 05:21 PM	A 100 Orcs is nothing. They WAAGH! (Think Warhammer), and its just a hypothetically encounter. Orcs make good cannon fodder :P, I'd say that the Orcs turn into a Mob (cityscape), instead of being a mob its a WAAGH! See, the thing is, your PCs shouldn't be fighting Warhammer-style encounters. D&D was specifically designed to deal with heroes who DON'T encounter those kind of situations. Granted, you can use whatever encounters you like in your game, but I still think that most players would get bored after the first 50 or so went down. :D On the original issue of core races, LA races are not going to be core. Ever. Its not an essential concept to the game, and for a beginning player who has 50 other things to learn, LA isn't something they should need to worry about.
Manyfist 07-12-07, 06:24 AM	See, the thing is, your PCs shouldn't be fighting Warhammer-style encounters. D&D was specifically designed to deal with heroes who DON'T encounter those kind of situations. Granted, you can use whatever encounters you like in your game, but I still think that most players would get bored after the first 50 or so went down. :D On the original issue of core races, LA races are not going to be core. Ever. Its not an essential concept to the game, and for a beginning player who has 50 other things to learn, LA isn't something they should need to worry about. Like I said its a hypothetical encounter. Of course I am not going to throw 100 level 1 orcs, the Orcs would be slaughtered, and barely any XP would be gained. In 4.0 I hope they do away with the LA system. Instead either give them abilities to start them off at "LA:+0", and have a optional "Paragon/Racial levels" that they could advance further in their "race" and still have HD, BAB, Skills...etc. I don't know if anyone ever seen the WoW RPG book. Yet, they start the monster races such has Trolls..etc. out as LA:+0, *note theirs no LA, so I'll refer as Base now* and an optional way to "advance" your base race were to take Racial levels. However each level granted BAB, HD, Skills...etc, as well as perks. Not all base races had them, only certain races had them. So in 4.0 I'd like to see this happening in D&D, with both monstrous and plain races. It'll be nice to "advance" your connection with your race, than to advance in a career.
Sphere 07-12-07, 07:42 AM	I would have to go with kobolds, we need more races that aren't merely some minor alterations of a human. Orcs and goblins would be nice too, they are common enough in most worlds to warrant having PC's of them. More half-breed races, like half-dwarves could round out the list.
Luis_Carlos 07-12-07, 12:56 PM	I would like goblins, hobgoblings and kobolds, or even drows!!! like PCs race with +0 level adjusment. I´m afraid what in a future 4.0 we are going to need a player handbook II (and III, IV) with more races to being played like PCs. I want monster class for all my favourits races with level adjusment of +1 or bigger (centaur, genies, giants, feys...) I would like paragons class (from Unearthed Arcana)... and a class ¨zero¨, a class like commoner class from DM Guide, with a level adjusment -1 to playing races like aasimars, tiflings, genasi, half-ogre, berauir (the creature like centaur from planar handbook)...or templates like half dragons, faytouched or half vampire. I would like monster class with optional levels or class (like from the complete mage) to doing monster PCs and alterating like fighters or spellcasters.
Kaladon7779 07-12-07, 01:19 PM	I'd like to see more common monsters as a core race, like possible Minitaur or Ogre, or even half-ogre for that matter, but I would like to see a Large Race as well.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 01:35 PM	I'd like to see them change monster HD to ageing bonuses. So a 16 year old Ogre would have low abilities and stats but a 25 year old one would havemore of then. Then they could keep LAs and every race could be played at First level at a lower age with no LA.
Lelander_the_L 07-12-07, 01:44 PM	If/when 4.0 is released, I'd like to see some new core races with a bit of variety. Mostly, I'd like to add one tiny race and one large race. Good tiny options would be Brownie, Pixie, and Farie. The possible large races I can think of are Half-Giant and Half-Ogre. All of these would need to be adjusted as to not overpower current core races. What does everyone else think? having a pixie would be a nice change of pace
zorgling25 07-12-07, 01:53 PM	having a pixie would be a nice change of pace Except it wouldn't happen because Core is supposed to reflect the most common civilized races in D&D's default setting. Now if you can create a setting where pixies walk around in every day life, and get Wizards to make it their default setting, be my guest. I'd certainly play it.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 01:57 PM	A world where fey rule. That could be fun. But what would your party look like?
YabaTheWhat 07-12-07, 02:52 PM	Now if you can create a setting where pixies walk around in every day life, and get Wizards to make it their default setting, be my guest. I'd certainly play it. Arcana Evolved covers this pretty well. It's a third party publication that includes its own variant PHB (races, classes, etc) and campaign setting.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 02:54 PM	Arcana Evolved covers this pretty well. It's a third party publication that includes its own variant PHB (races, classes, etc) and campaign setting. I am well acquainted with Monte Cook's stuff. It's still a LONG way from being made core, unfortunately. :(
Kadasbrass 07-12-07, 03:21 PM	Don't think you'll see much change in a 4th edition core races. Warforge is campaign limited, core in 3rd is "setting neutral" for most part. Greyhawk gets little attention, if any. Orcs, could de decent. Currently their only good at warrior types, which is poor balance in my book, but still playable as a warrior. Only thing against them is fact core normally deals with good or (normally) "non-evil" characters. Tieflings and Aasimars be the two I rather see in core, with no LA and some interesting (unique) racial abilities. Goblins in dnd just are too bland. If this was Magic the Gathering the RPG then yes. But Goblins in dnd just don't stand out for players. Players wanting an underdog race have the kobold. The goblin isn't cool enough or sucky enough to be a favorite. Also have that problem that their normally evil. Kobold do have fandom on their side, but once you weed out all the nutjobs they don't have much support amoung sane players. Also that evil issue. Drow? Personally I think the 31 flavor of elves should just be rolled in to 3 types where they only give a different ability score bonus and different skill bonus. Drow also have that LA +2 which is something core doesn't mess with. Also an normally evil issue. Tiny you won't see, +8 hide is too broken for core, since core is normally no hitdice or level adjustment. A large race with only 5 foot reach could be doable if balanced correctly, which unfortantlly never happened in core in past.
Evilholyguy 07-25-07, 09:35 PM	I would like to see a half nymph... that would be interesting :cool:
asurademon 07-25-07, 10:38 PM	I doubt that these, or most of the other races suggested so far would be added as "core" races. Although half-elves and half-orcs would probably get a retool. Core races are supposed to represent the most common races to be found in civilized society. While that might vary from campaign to campaign, in you average run-of-the-mill campaign, the core races presented in the 3.5e PHB ARE the most common to be found. Whats wrong with races not being PHB races? So long as they have stats in the Monster Manual for their use as player races (or whatever they decide to rename it, since each edition seems to have had the name muddled round), do they have to be "core"? Oh I (and probably most others considering how many people complain about them) so hope they redo the half-orcs and half-elves. I'd also like full blooded orcs to be redone. I'm usually a fan of the more races the merrier, but I don't think that there's any need to get too excessive with how many races are in the Player's Guide. A few more could fit in just fine, but if I had to choose which ones go in, I'd pick orcs, and kobolds (hopefully both will get a bit of a makeover). I'd love aasimar and tiefling, but I'm not so sure I'd put them in the player's guide, I think that races with an LA don't really belong there, and the lesser versions are crappily done. Arrggg the whole way LA is done is sort of annoying, that's another thing I hope is improved a bit in 4th edition. It would be nice if 4th edition used some sort of prioritizing system for character creation, that way if you wanted a more powerful race, you could start out with a slightly more powerful race without dealing with LA, but end up with less skill points, or something to begin with. I really doubt that will happen though. EDIT: What I'd like to see most of all, would be a dragon race of some sort, one with no LA, so I'd guess it would be more along the lines of a human with hints of draconic heritage, or just some sort of lesser dragon. Also am really doubting it will happen, but it seems like with a name like dungeons and dragons there'd be a core race with at least a touch of dragon (and what about a core race with a touch of dungeon....just kidding).
YamiSouru 07-25-07, 11:29 PM	as much as i would like to see warforged as a new "core" race, i think of the races in Eberron Changelings and Shifters have the greatest chance of making the cut. This is mostly because Warforged have a very specific back story that ties them to Eberron. Changelings and Shifters however do not, they are pretty much in the same boat as half-elves and and half-orcs in terms of how they came about. Changelings are in many ways half-doppleganger and shifters are half-lycanthrope if you know what i mean. and that alone makes it EASY to fit them into any joe schmoes campaign because chances are..dopplegangers and lycanthropes are in his setting... anyway. My personal vote for new core races? Changelings Shifters Kobolds
Roog 07-26-07, 06:11 AM	Cut Half-orcs and Half-elves, add Kobolds, Goblins, and Orcs
burpmaster12 07-26-07, 01:20 PM	Allot of you are think mechanically what would add to the core(which is obviously important)... But I think you have to also look into the role playing part of it... You know, what would add to the overall party(that hasn't already been added)... Which lead me to think that Warforged would be added, because personality wise, they're very much different from the current cores. Also marketing wise, they've become increasingly popular(which is going to be a consideration of Wizards undoubtedly). And mechanically he's fairly unique compared to the cores(but not TOO unique, imo anyway). But I also think they need a "dark" race... I'm not sure if Drows are the answer... But I think on a story level, there needs to be a race of dark(but not straight out evil) people... I say this because more, and more people like to play a character that's conflicted(or play as the bad-boy hero), a darker race could have fun story potential(And from the mass amount of chaotic neutral players out there, apparently allot of us WANT to be simi-evil, lol).... Just some random thoughts...
asurademon 07-26-07, 05:35 PM	Nooo!! More Drizzt Clones! There's too many! :P I still don't see why they have to be in the 4th ed PHB. Nonstandard races are just as accessible in the MM, or, if you don't have that, the SRD. There is no reason why these races have to be classified as "core." If someone could explain WHY its so necessary to tack this word "core" on to these races, it would be appreciated. yeah, I really like Drizzt, but it would be annoying to have a bunch of drizzt clones running around. There's one good group of drow whom worship a good drow deity in realms right? That's plenty, I really hope that drow society doesn't get changed too much in new editions of the game. They should at least stay true to the spirit of drow society as it is now. burpmaster12 I think tieflings work great for people whom want conflicted character types that are touched by evil, but not necessarily evil them self. But tieflings also have an LA, and are just slightly on the weak side. Drow on the other hand really suck when it comes to what they get for their LA.
Phelix_the_Warrior 07-26-07, 09:39 PM	personally, i'd like to see all 1/2 races gone. why not just have elves and orcs? the whole 1/2 bit is from LotR anyway. make orcs like 1/2 orcs, then add smaller ogres as PC's and another fey, like pixies. Wait, were playing a fantasy game, a game designed around the concept of an alternate universe set in the middle ages and filled with different races and magic, a concept that Tolkien invented...... WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS FROM LOTR?? so are tall elves, halflings, orcs and a great deal more........(I barred Gnomes because Tolkiens version of Gnomes was an orc/elf mix and died out long before LotRs happened) (Elves in mythology before Tolkien were like Leprechauns and the like, more of faries then immortal warriors) .....Sorry but I had to say that to give credit where credit is due, a lot of what our hobby and pastime revolves around is the work of one JRR Tolkien, this is fact not opinion. EDIT: It came to my realization that your comment may have been just because you wish D&D to take on its own artistic visage of the fantasy world (even though it already has), if that was your intent than I wholeheartedly take back the harshness that I had in my writings Edit End to the debate on Half races: I believe there should be a centralized template allowing the mix of any two races of the same type and at least similar subtype if there is that case (no fire/water mixes ect) and it should probobly be placed in DMGv4, and that is my opinion, yes to no longer a common race, no to their extermination
hazhar 07-26-07, 09:51 PM	In my campaign setting the "half" races are known as "lesser elves" and "lesser orcs". They are not the result of interbreeding, instead they're classified as seperate subraces of elves/orcs with their own societies and histories; they just happen to be slightly more "human" in appearance and character than their cousins. IMO a new edition should take that stance, it makes the half races much more interesting.
Lawlicron 07-26-07, 10:21 PM	In my campaign setting the "half" races are known as "lesser elves" and "lesser orcs". They are not the result of interbreeding, instead they're classified as seperate subraces of elves/orcs with their own societies and histories; they just happen to be slightly more "human" in appearance and character than their cousins. IMO a new edition should take that stance, it makes the half races much more interesting. But then again if they take that stance there is another elven subrace, and I think we can do without any more of those.
asurademon 07-26-07, 10:40 PM	Wait, were playing a fantasy game, a game designed around the concept of an alternate universe set in the middle ages and filled with different races and magic, a concept that Tolkien invented...... WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS FROM LOTR?? so are tall elves, halflings, orcs and a great deal more........(I barred Gnomes because Tolkiens version of Gnomes was an orc/elf mix and died out long before LotRs happened) (Elves in mythology before Tolkien were like Leprechauns and the like, more of faries then immortal warriors) .....Sorry but I had to say that to give credit where credit is due, a lot of what our hobby and pastime revolves around is the work of one JRR Tolkien, this is fact not opinion. EDIT: It came to my realization that your comment may have been just because you wish D&D to take on its own artistic visage of the fantasy world (even though it already has), if that was your intent than I wholeheartedly take back the harshness that I had in my writings Edit End to the debate on Half races: I believe there should be a centralized template allowing the mix of any two races of the same type and at least similar subtype if there is that case (no fire/water mixes ect) and it should probobly be placed in DMGv4, and that is my opinion, yes to no longer a common race, no to their extermination Tolkien didn't invent the concepts you speak of, he just did a really good job doing something interesting and inventive with those concepts. Tolkien's world very much draws from versions of our own world which show up in myth and folklore. A lot of his ideas drew very strongly upon Norse myth, and there are plenty of tales about magical beings in the middle ages that came way before Tolkien. That said, yes D&D draws upon Tolkien's work heavily, though some settings do more so than others, the D&D settings of Faerun, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance are especially Tolkien influenced.
Melchizedek 07-26-07, 11:49 PM	as much as i would like to see warforged as a new "core" race, i think of the races in Eberron Changelings and Shifters have the greatest chance of making the cut. This is mostly because Warforged have a very specific back story that ties them to Eberron. Changelings and Shifters however do not, they are pretty much in the same boat as half-elves and and half-orcs in terms of how they came about. Changelings are in many ways half-doppleganger and shifters are half-lycanthrope if you know what i mean. and that alone makes it EASY to fit them into any joe schmoes campaign because chances are..dopplegangers and lycanthropes are in his setting... You took the words out of my mouth. I'd also add that I like the concept of half-breeds, but IMO the current mechanics leave something to be desired. And I just love changelings.:)
Phelix_the_Warrior 07-27-07, 12:32 AM	Tolkien didn't invent the concepts you speak of, he just did a really good job doing something interesting and inventive with those concepts. Tolkien's world very much draws from versions of our own world which show up in myth and folklore. A lot of his ideas drew very strongly upon Norse myth, and there are plenty of tales about magical beings in the middle ages that came way before Tolkien. That said, yes D&D draws upon Tolkien's work heavily, though some settings do more so than others, the D&D settings of Faerun, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance are especially Tolkien influenced. Good point, but he was still the first to put a lot of those historical ideas into one alternate world, as in a non earth world where most myths ect. If I am wrong please tell me who came before him, barring myths and stories that take place on earth (unless its a radically changed earth)
Pandapeep 07-27-07, 06:34 AM	Totally off topic here, but I've seen a few of these "when 4th edition comes out" threads and found myself wondering, "What?! 4th edition? That better not be coming out any time soon! GAH! Don't these people know how freakin' expensive their #$%^&$#$ books are!" So, is fourth edition looming soon, or what?
Pyre_Born 07-28-07, 07:33 PM	I'd like to see a system to balance races yourself, and maybe give each race some abilities to pick and choose from so that you don't have to have so many sub-races...and no I don't mean elves, their are just as many dwarven sub-races as their are elven. Something like The Advanced Player's Manual from Green Ronin, their system of race creation has been pretty balanced for me, not perfect, but then again neither are Wizards core races. Kobolds, the Goblinoids, and get rid of the half-orc/elf...just stick with the base races.
zorgling25 07-28-07, 08:25 PM	Totally off topic here, but I've seen a few of these "when 4th edition comes out" threads and found myself wondering, "What?! 4th edition? That better not be coming out any time soon! GAH! Don't these people know how freakin' expensive their #$%^&$#$ books are!" So, is fourth edition looming soon, or what? For the 13280491257987th time, no official source has said 4th edition is coming any time soon. Anyone who says it is is making speculation. For all of those who believe Wizards would "sneak" 4th edition up on us, I am curious about one thing. Regardless of any other business practices of Wizards', to the best of my knowledge they have always been very good about announcing products well before their release (D&D 3.0 and 3.5 were both given modest previews before their release, and Magic sets are released on a strict, almost unerring cycle). Can you provide any indication from past experience that Wizards' has "snuck" products on its customers before?
Thurbane 07-28-07, 08:56 PM	If/when 4.0 is released, I'd like to see some new core races with a bit of variety. Mostly, I'd like to add one tiny race and one large race. Good tiny options would be Brownie, Pixie, and Farie. The possible large races I can think of are Half-Giant and Half-Ogre. All of these would need to be adjusted as to not overpower current core races. What does everyone else think? I STRONGLY agree with the 1/2 Ogre becoming a core race. Also, a less sucky version of the 1/2 Orc would be nice.