Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JarionSilverblades 02-06-07, 10:41 AM	This is a half-breed race I’ve been working on for my Home-brewed world. I figured that Orcs and Elves are always at war that some times the orcs may take captives, and who’s to say what kind of horrors may befall an elf prisoner, male or female. ORC-ELVES ORC-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -4 Charisma: Orc-elves are stronger then full-blood elves, more agile then full blooded or even half-orcs, but are frailer and are extremely rash and temperamental. ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Orc-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Orc-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Low-Light Vision: An Orc-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. ● Darkvision 60ft. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight. ● +4 racial bonus on Intimidate checks: Orc-elves have a fearsome reputation as being dangerous or cursed. ● +1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks: Orc-elves have a heightened sense of sight and hearing. ● Mixed Blood: The mixing of orc and elf blood is unstable, For all effects related to race, a Orc-elf is considered both an orc and an elf. Orc-elves, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect orcs or elves as their orc or elf ancestors are, however orc-elves can not use race specific items as a Half-orc or Half-elf could. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven or Orc. Bonus Languages Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan. Orc-elves commonly know the languages of their enemies and allies. ● Alignment: Always Chaotic. ● Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass Orc-elf’s Fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. I would like to know what you think, any ideas you may have, and/or if you've seen a Half-orc/half-elf any place else.
Eerongal 02-06-07, 10:55 AM	Hmm...I like this idea, however, it seems a bit too strong for an LA 0 creature, but a bit too weak for LA 1, in my opinion. Maybe remove one of the visions, or reduce the darkvision a bit? Also, does mixed blood mean infer that they have the strengths of each race too? Like elves immunity to sleep and +2 against enchanments, or do they not get this benefit (i would say they shouldn't personally). Also, does it infer that they get light sensitivity like orcs do?
AMGriffin 02-06-07, 11:09 AM	Right now that basically seems like a slightly altered version of the wood-elf. If you got rid of one of the charisma penalties and added a wisdom or intelligence penalties it in theory would be balanced. I also don't like how you made them ALWAYS chaotic. Here's my own personal elf/orc crossbreed Savreree (Abomination in elven) Elves and orcs have been the bitterest of enemies for as long as anyone alive(or dead for that matter) can remember. Their very hatred even extends into their patron deities, who according to legend, were (and are) constantly at odds. Yet it is an unspoken (and unthinkable) truth to both races that the two of them can unite to give birth to mixed offspring. The odds of the savreree being born are incredibly low, first an elf and an orc must mate, most often in a less then tasteful setting, such as an orc raping a woman of an elven village his clan raided, or maybe even a wealthy elf having sex with one of his or her orc slaves, fulfilling some sort of strange and twisted sexual fantasy they harbor. The rarest of possibilities (but not unheard of) is when two outcasts, both often outstanding members of their races, fall in love outside of the bounds of society and bear a child. Then, the seed must take hold and the unborn baby must avoid being aborted through natural or magical means and then not killed upon their entry into this world. Even more then the half-human orc and half-human elf, or even the half-ogre for that matter, savreree are doomed to live a life racked with abuse, isolation, and sadness. Personality: Savreree are a wrought with paranoia, suspecting most everyone around them wishes them ill. They are prone to depression, attacks of anxiety and they tend to be scatter-brained, unable to focus on one task at a time. This is the result of their conflicting natures, the serenity of their elven half is constantly clashing with the volatile nature of their orcish half, which in turns makes savreree VERY moody. One moment they are in a furious rage, the next in an illogical jubilee, and maybe then a great sorrow. Perhaps above all else, they are lonely. They will go to great measures, even endangering themselves to earn the acceptance of a community or even just a single person. Physical Description: Savreree resemble half-orcs of human stock, but are smaller, thinner, and noticeably "elven". Their facial features are chiseled, their bodies not as hairy, their ears pointy, their hair fine and dark, and their eyes a shimmering green (with a rare few being red). They stand of similar height to humans, perhaps a bit taller. The combination of elven and orcish physiques leaves savreree slender and in terms of raw power, physically weaker then orcs and half-orcs, but nonetheless endowed with well toned and sinewy muscles, making them agile and highly athletic. Savreree are mature by the time they are about 19 years old and can live as long as 160 years. Relations: Rarer then almost any other half-breed race, most communities never even consider the possibility of an orcish/elven hybrid. Reactions vary from disgust to pity, depending on how the savreree behaves. Dwarves, who are infamous for not being on the best of terms with elves and orcs surprisingly enough feel pity for the crossbreed, whom they view as a victim of the cruelty of orcs and carelessness of elves. Elves are outright horrified by their very existence and regard them as literally some kind of demon. Orcs are oddly enough, more accepting of savreree. Although they will forever be viewed as the weakest members of the tribe, they still can earn the right to live by becomming scouts or spies for their tribe. Even among their fellow half-breeds, Savreree are regarded with a degree of aversion. Despite most of them being open-minded and tolerant of others, half-elves sometimes feel a pang of discomfort around savreree, if not only for the sheerly morbid and warped origin they have. They are a bit closer to half-orcs, who like them are the product of violence or jaded tastes. Yet even the half-human orc occupies a higher position in orcish society. It is not uncommon in orcish tribes for evil aligned half-orcs to be endlessly cruel to savreree in an attempt to endear himselves to full-blooded orcs by torturing the only being viewed as more pathetic then he. Yet on the other hand, good aligned half-orcs are quick to relate to (the best they can anyway, even half-orcs are more welcomed into society then savreree) the suffering savreree have underwent. Alignment: Savreree's conflicting natures cause them to lean towards chaos. Rare is the savreree who has a enough control over his two halves to behave in a lawful manner. Most hold only allegiance to themselves, and are neutral in their outlook...but a select few give in to the suffering they've felt and work to spread it to others, whilst some recognize the injustices of the world and demonstrate piety and benevolence despite all the stigmas they've faced. Religion: Most Savreree are impious to the extreme, feeling abandoned by the gods. They find no solace in Correllon or Gruumsh who view them as abominations or weaklings (respectively). Any Savreree who does become religious typically worships a human god, or any god that will take pity upon their cursed state. Savreree Lands: Savreree have no lands of their own, being half-breeds. Though commonly hermits or vagabonds they can be found in orc tribes or living as thugs and bandits in the seediest areas of large cities. Adventurers: The very definition of social pariah, Savreree rarely (maybe even never) find peace living where they were born. To them, adventuring itself is a very way of life, wandering from place to place in search of a new place to stay, if only temporarily. Others see adventuring as a means of gaining respect and prestige in the eyes of others by amassing wealth and fortune. Racial traits *+2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom. For all their agility and athleticism, Savreree are left mentally weary and unstable by the conflicting natures of their two halves. *Medium: As medium-sized creatures, Savreree have no penalties or bonuses due to their size. *Savreree base land speed is 30 feet. *Darkvision out to 90 feet. Savreree can see in the dark like an orc, but the distance they see is increased by their sharp elven eyesight. *+2 racial bonus on climb, jump, listen, and spot checks. Savreree are athletic and keen sensed. *+4 racial bonus on saves against sleep spells. In addition to this, Savreree only require six (not eight) hours of sleep to feel rested. *Despised: Savreree are seen as digusting and impure by both of their parent races. When dealing with orcs, they suffer a -2 penalty to all charisma based checks who view them as almost worthless. Amongst elves they are considered vile demons and suffer a -4 penalty to charisma based checks. (say for intimidate, as most elves are frightened by the very concept of them) Of course, there are exceptions and if a particular NPC of elven or orc ancestry respects or sympathizes with them, the penalty may not apply to that specific character. *Mixed blood: For all intents and purposes, Savreree count as both orcs and elves. *Automatic languages: Common, Elven or Orc Bonus languages: Elven, Orc, Goblin, Gnoll, Dwarven, Draconic, Abyssal *Favored class: Rogue. Whether they are scouts for orcish tribes or thugs living in the slums of urban areas, Savreree fit well into the role of the rogue.
JarionSilverblades 02-06-07, 11:32 AM	A lot of the info you wrote (Personality, Physical Description, etc.) are very similar to what I wrote, for my Orc-elves. The reason I made Orc-elves always chaotic is because of the deep seeded hatred between both races, a hatred that is ingrained in their very blood. ● Remove +2 dex and -2 cha. ● Lessen +4 racial bonus on Intimidate checks, to +2 ● +1 racial bonus on balance checks. ● +1 racial bonus on reflex saving throws. ● Level Adjustment: +1. So far that’s all I could think of to change if anyone has any other ideas or comments let me know.
AMGriffin 02-06-07, 12:55 PM	Whoa!? LA+!? Where the heck did you get that idea? That race Doesn't need LA+1.
Seldriss 02-06-07, 12:59 PM	Very nice presentation, Griffin...
AMGriffin 02-06-07, 04:03 PM	Thank you, thank you. *Bows* :)
Regular_K 02-06-07, 04:11 PM	The Orc-Elves seem a little underpowered. I think a -4 Cha is too much, maybe a -2, but that's just my opinion. I'd also like to see some more fluff, to make it a little more interesting.
enygmatic_me 02-06-07, 04:12 PM	The OP is definitely to powerful without an LA and is amazingly more powerful then either of the parent races. Griffin, I like your take on it. The only thing I have to point out is that since they count as both elf and orc for situations based on race that means they qualify for both the elf and orc paragon classes. For a race considered shameful to both races I find that kind of funny. It might be more to the flavor of the race that they don't count like either. This thread is a good argument for why Half-elf and Half-orc should be a LA+0 Template and Orc should be a base race in the PHB.
AMGriffin 02-06-07, 04:19 PM	Yes, this is true. I will take that into consideration.
JarionSilverblades 02-06-07, 07:18 PM	This is the updated Orc-elf based largely on the suggestions of made in this tread. I’m still not sure about it (but that’s why I started this Thread) and want to know what you think and what should be change. ORC-ELVES Version 2.0 ORC-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● +2 Strength, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma: Orc-elves are stronger then full-blood elves, but are frailer and are extremely rash and temperamental. ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Orc-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Orc-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Darkvision 40ft. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight. ● +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks: Orc-elves have a fearsome reputation as being dangerous or cursed. ● +1 racial bonus on balance checks. ● +1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks: Orc-elves have a heightened sense of sight and hearing. ● +1 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells or effects. ● Light sensitivity. ● Mixed Blood: The mixing of orc and elf blood is unstable, For all effects related to race, a Orc-elf is considered both an orc and an elf. Orc-elves, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect orcs or elves as their orc or elf ancestors are, however orc-elves can not use race specific items as a Half-orc or Half-elf could. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven or Orc. Bonus Languages Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan. Orc-elves commonly know the languages of their enemies and allies. ● Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass Orc-elf’s Fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Also as far as paragon's go I think it should be up to the DM.
Darcon_Firedrake 02-06-07, 07:53 PM	ORC-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity,-2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Orc-elves are as agile as full elves, they are stronger then normal elves, but are dim-witted and extremely rash and temperamental. ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Orc-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Orc-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Darkvision 30ft. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight. ●Low light Vision: Orc elves can see twice as far as humans in moon light, torch light, and other types of poor illumination. ● +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks: Orc-elves have a fearsome reputation as being dangerous or cursed. ● +1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks: Orc-elves have a heightened sense of sight and hearing. ● +1 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells or effects. ● Light sensitivity. Orc-elves spend alot of time in dark forest, caves or other dimly light areas. ● Mixed Blood: The mixing of orc and elf blood is unstable, For all effects related to race, a Orc-elf is considered both an orc and an elf. Orc-elves, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect orcs or elves as their orc or elf ancestors are, however orc-elves can not use race specific items as a Half-orc or Half-elf could. ● Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan. Orc-elves commonly know the languages of their enemies and allies. ● Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass Orc-elf’s Fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. ● Edits: +1 to Balance (removed), Stats Changed, Darkvision -10ft, added Low light vision This seems a bit better to me
Sabyr400 02-06-07, 08:44 PM	Wow, thats Practicly identical to the Eloc (yes i know it's a lame name but until i come up with something better...) Eloc's are elf-orcs. your stats are nearly identical to mine. exept as someone said above they don't coun't as either race to avoid taking Elf/Orc specific prestige classes. and i don't think my eloc has an intimidae bonus. I don't know, i don't know where my folder is that has all my spec races in it is.
Tichondrus 02-06-07, 09:07 PM	Answering to the original post (and only to that one) I'd say taht it should have wizard/warrior as favoured class (yes, both) and only one of the sights, the weakest one (the one from the elves)
enygmatic_me 02-06-07, 11:22 PM	Also as far as paragon's go I think it should be up to the DM. As it is written there is no reason that a DM wouldn't allow them to take both of the paragon classes. I think that a DM would be more inclined not to allow the race instead. The way mixed blood is written now though it is more of a detriment then anything. That, in my opinion, isn't a good idea either. Takes some of the appeal out of the race.
JarionSilverblades 02-07-07, 12:44 PM	As it is written there is no reason that a DM wouldn't allow them to take both of the paragon classes. I think that a DM would be more inclined not to allow the race instead. The way mixed blood is written now though it is more of a detriment then anything. That, in my opinion, isn't a good idea either. Takes some of the appeal out of the race. What if the wording was changed so that they are limited to only classes that the race that raised them can take, example, a class that has a prerequisite, that you must be an Elf or Half-elf can be taken only if you were raised in an elven community? Make the character’s background play a bigger role.
enygmatic_me 02-07-07, 02:33 PM	What if the wording was changed so that they are limited to only classes that the race that raised them can take, example, a class that has a prerequisite, that you must be an Elf or Half-elf can be taken only if you were raised in an elven community? Make the character’s background play a bigger role. One or the Other would work better, the truth is though, by the flavor of the race it would make more sense for them to count as neither. This would mean they couldn't take PrC's based on race or use magic items based on race, but the also couldn't be the target of Favored Enemy, Bane (Elf/Orc), and other similar effects. Depending on campaign type not counting as either might be more beneficial then counting as either one or both. For players that did want to count as one or the other you could have a racial feat that can only be taken at first level. Blood Ties Prerequisites: Elf-orc, can be taken at 1st level only. The elf-orc has a particularly stong connection to one of their parent races. Choose either elf or orc. The elf-orc now counts as that race for any situation based upon race including, but not limited to, PrC's, magic items, and spell effects.
JarionSilverblades 02-07-07, 02:51 PM	One or the Other would work better, the truth is though, by the flavor of the race it would make more sense for them to count as neither. This would mean they couldn't take PrC's based on race or use magic items based on race, but the also couldn't be the target of Favored Enemy, Bane (Elf/Orc), and other similar effects. Depending on campaign type not counting as either might be more beneficial then counting as either one or both. For players that did want to count as one or the other you could have a racial feat that can only be taken at first level. Blood Ties Prerequisites: Elf-orc, can be taken at 1st level only. The elf-orc has a particularly stong connection to one of their parent races. Choose either elf or orc. The elf-orc now counts as that race for any situation based upon race including, but not limited to, PrC's, magic items, and spell effects. I like it, that's something totally different, very inventive. I didn't even think of racial feats.
Eerongal 02-07-07, 04:17 PM	As it is written there is no reason that a DM wouldn't allow them to take both of the paragon classes. I think that a DM would be more inclined not to allow the race instead. The way mixed blood is written now though it is more of a detriment then anything. That, in my opinion, isn't a good idea either. Takes some of the appeal out of the race. It's possible for a powerful magic effect such as shapechange, reincarnate, or wish to change a character's race. If a character has already taken racial paragon levels in his original race, he can never become a paragon of another race. However, such shapechanging and form-altering magics also cause no loss of a paragon's class abilities—the class abilities gained from racial paragon levels are affected no more or less drastically than benefits gained from having levels in any other class. Divided Ancestry (Ex) Unlike other racial paragons, half-orcs can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a half-orc paragon, a character can take either orc paragon levels or human paragon levels (but not both). These two things say to me that you cannot have more than 1 type of racial paragon levels initially, UNLESS you take the half-orc racial paragon class, which lets you take human or orc (but not both). So even though you qualify for both, you CANNOT take both. Although, technically they qualify for the half-orc paragon class, and could take orc via it's first level ability, but they would have to take Half-orc paragon first.
enygmatic_me 02-07-07, 04:55 PM	These two things say to me that you cannot have more than 1 type of racial paragon levels initially, UNLESS you take the half-orc racial paragon class, which lets you take human or orc (but not both). So even though you qualify for both, you CANNOT take both. Although, technically they qualify for the half-orc paragon class, and could take orc via it's first level ability, but they would have to take Half-orc paragon first. Divided Ancestry (Ex) Unlike other racial paragons, half-elves can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a half-elf paragon, a character can take either elf paragon levels or human paragon levels (but not both). It isn't a huge stretch to logically puzzle out that a half-elf/half-orc race should be able to take one of the half race paragons and then the full race paragon of the other. The fact that both half races can already do this is precedence that something like this is possible. The reason something like this hasn't already been addressed is there hasn't been a reason to address it yet.
Platstud 02-07-07, 05:07 PM	As a matter of flavour, I would suggest that elves and orcs might not produce fertile offspring. Rather like a mule. :P
Eerongal 02-07-07, 05:07 PM	Right, but they wouldn't be able to take BOTH of them (orc and elf paragon), because as that shows, you are only allowed 1 racial paragon class. So once you pick half elf/orc paragon, you can't go back and pick the other. The only reason they can get a second paragon class with the full racial paragon for elf/orc is because the half ability lets them do so.
enygmatic_me 02-07-07, 06:29 PM	Right, but they wouldn't be able to take BOTH of them (orc and elf paragon), because as that shows, you are only allowed 1 racial paragon class. So once you pick half elf/orc paragon, you can't go back and pick the other. The only reason they can get a second paragon class with the full racial paragon for elf/orc is because the half ability lets them do so. Logically this race could take Half-Elf and then Orc paragon or Half-orc and then Elf Paragon. More accurately a Orc-Elf Paragon should be made with the Divided Heritage Class Feature that allows them to then take Orc or Elf Paragon. Since there currently isn't an Orc-Elf Paragon it is not beyond logic to all a player of this race to take either the Orc and Elf Paragon levels, or one of the Half-race paragon classes and then one of the full race paragon levels as half-races are already a noted exception to the above rule.
JarionSilverblades 02-07-07, 06:31 PM	This is an updated version of my Orc-elf, or Elf-orc depending on your preference. I’ve removed the -2 charisma, restored the low-light vision, and removed the MIXED BLOOD trait that has been the subject of much debate. I have added a racial feat (courteous of enygmatic_me) called Blood Ties, I’ve changed it a bit, I've also changed the favored class to Warmage (I figured the offspring of a Magic using class and a Martial class, why not). I would as always like to know what people think so that I can hopefully finish this race. ORC-ELVES Version 3.0 ORC-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● +2 Strength, -2 Constitution: Orc-elves are stronger then full-blood elves, but are frailer. ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Orc-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Orc-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Low-Light Vision: An Orc-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. ● Darkvision 40ft. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight. ● +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and a -2 racial penalty on diplomacy checks: Orc-elves have a fearsome reputation as being dangerous or cursed. ● +1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks: Orc-elves have a heightened sense of sight and hearing. ● +1 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells or effects. ● Light sensitivity. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven or Orc. Bonus Languages Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan. Orc-elves commonly know the languages of their enemies and allies. ● Favored Class: Warmage. A multiclass Orc-elf’s Warmage class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. BLOOD TIES (racial feat) The very existence of an orc-elf can be hard, never quite fitting in, but sometimes an orc-elf finds a deeper connection with one of it’s parent races. Prerequisites: Orc-elf, must be taken at 1st level. Benefits: The Orc-elf has a particularly strong connection to one of their parent races. Choose either elf or orc. The orc-elf now counts as that race for any situation based upon race including, but not limited to, Prestige classes, racial magic items, and spell effects. In addition, an Orc-elf who chooses elf gains a +1 racial bonus to all reflex saving throws, while an orc-elf who chooses orc gains a +1 racial bonus to all fortitude saving throws Normal: Without this feat an orc-elf is considered neither an orc nor an elf, and there for not eligible for race specific classes, feats, magical items or weapons, and spells. Special: This feat may not be taken multiple times, once the parent race is chosen it may not be changed.
enygmatic_me 02-07-07, 06:40 PM	This looks really good. I think the changes are balanced and an appealing alternative to the other races. Well done.
michel andre 02-08-07, 10:53 AM	This is probably a stupid question. If so, sorry. Has anyone simply added the abilities of a Half-Elf and Half-Orc together? I looked at this last night and it did not seem incorrect to me. Also, would an Elf-Orc created this way be a +1 LA character? Thanks.
Rogue Shadows 02-08-07, 11:03 AM	I created my own orc-elves awhile ago...I'll post them, and you can pick and choose what you want from 'em. ORC/ELF Known as the drokah in Orcish and the tel'limaquel in Elvish, the orc/elf crossbreed is an extremely rare creature that is hated and despised by both its parent races. Most frequently these creatures are the product of rape on the part of an Orc, but these hybrids have been known to crop up amongst adventuring elves and orcs as well, the product of an elf or and orc or orc who somehow managed to see past the millennia of racial hatred. Orc and elven blood are both potent, and so a half-elf and half-orc who breed are also likely to produce this - roughly one in five couplings produce an drokah. The life of an orc/elf is a hard one, even harder then that of a half-elf and certainly far worse then that of a half-orc. The elven side of these crossbreeds wants to make it a creature with a long life, relatively fine features (as compared to an orc or half-orc), and a natural love of life and the finer things around him. The orcish side, however, wants to produce a creature of nameless rage and hate, filled with bloodthirst and hunger. The result is usually somewhere in the dangerous middle - a long-lived, relatively hansom creature with a taste for blood and fine things. For elf/orcs, there seems to be no middle ground. They are either good or evil, almost always chaotic, and neutrality is unheard of amongst them. Most elf/orcs are professed atheists (in the D&D sense of the word, that is, an atheist in D&D believes that the gods are not actually gods, but just really powerful creatures), refusing to believe that the gods would allow such creatures as them to come into being. Few find any quarter in the elven pantheon, and none are accepted by Gruumsh or the rest of the Orcish one. When they do worship, it is with an off-handed and callousness, treated more as an alliance that could be broken at any time rather then as a true devotion ("I have never prayed before. I have no time for it. But if you do not help me now - then you can go to Hell.") Elf/orcs have the following racial statistics. ELF/ORC - +2 Strength, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Elf/orcs are stronger and hardier then elves, but less agile. They are weaker then orcs but stronger then elves, although and suffer from their same lack of inner resolve and outer awareness as their orcish ancestors - Medium-sized - Elf/orc base speed is 30 feet - +1 to listen, search, and spot checks. Despite their inborn aloofness, drokah have inhereted a natural awareness from their elven ancestors. Drokah do not have the elven mojo for finding secret doors - Darkvision 120 feet. - Light sensitivity (Su): Drokah are blinded for 1 round when suddenly exposed to bright light, such as starlight, moonlight, and torchlight. - +2 racial bonus to saves against Enchantment spells and effects. Like elves, elf/orcs are immune to sleep spells and effects. - Elven and Orcish blood: For all effects related to race, a drokah is treated as both an elf and an orc. A drokha can, for example, use magical weapons that only an elf could use. - Automatic Languages: Common and either Elven or Orcish. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Orcish, Undercommon - Favored Class: Fighter.
JarionSilverblades 02-08-07, 11:04 AM	This is probably a stupid question. If so, sorry. Has anyone simply added the abilities of a Half-Elf and Half-Orc together? I looked at this last night and it did not seem incorrect to me. Also, would an Elf-Orc created this way be a +1 LA character? Thanks. First off, the only stupid question, is the one never asked. Combining the traits of the half-orc and half-elf together was almost what I did with my first version (note: my OP was not the first draft). The only problem I had with that was I was trying to create a race that was equal parts elf and orc. With the merging of the half-orc and half elf you still end up with the “human factor”.
Eerongal 02-08-07, 11:15 AM	This is an updated version of my Orc-elf, or Elf-orc depending on your preference. I’ve removed the -2 charisma, restored the low-light vision, and removed the MIXED BLOOD trait that has been the subject of much debate. I have added a racial feat (courteous of enygmatic_me) called Blood Ties, I’ve changed it a bit, I've also changed the favored class to Warmage (I figured the offspring of a Magic using class and a Martial class, why not). I would as always like to know what people think so that I can hopefully finish this race. ORC-ELVES Version 3.0 ORC-ELF RACIAL TRAITS ● +2 Strength, -2 Constitution: Orc-elves are stronger then full-blood elves, but are frailer. ● Medium: As Medium creatures, Orc-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to his size. ● Orc-elves base land speed is 30 feet. ● Low-Light Vision: An Orc-elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. ● Darkvision 40ft. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight. ● +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and a -2 racial penalty on diplomacy checks: Orc-elves have a fearsome reputation as being dangerous or cursed. ● +1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks: Orc-elves have a heightened sense of sight and hearing. ● +1 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells or effects. ● Light sensitivity. ● Automatic Languages: Common and Elven or Orc. Bonus Languages Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc and Sylvan. Orc-elves commonly know the languages of their enemies and allies. ● Favored Class: Warmage. A multiclass Orc-elf’s Warmage class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. BLOOD TIES (racial feat) The very existence of an orc-elf can be hard, never quite fitting in, but sometimes an orc-elf finds a deeper connection with one of it’s parent races. Prerequisites: Orc-elf, must be taken at 1st level. Benefits: The Orc-elf has a particularly strong connection to one of their parent races. Choose either elf or orc. The orc-elf now counts as that race for any situation based upon race including, but not limited to, Prestige classes, racial magic items, and spell effects. In addition, an Orc-elf who chooses elf gains a +1 racial bonus to all reflex saving throws, while an orc-elf who chooses orc gains a +1 racial bonus to all fortitude saving throws Normal: Without this feat an orc-elf is considered neither an orc nor an elf, and there for not eligible for race specific classes, feats, magical items or weapons, and spells. Special: This feat may not be taken multiple times, once the parent race is chosen it may not be changed. I think that this has shaped up pretty well, and see no problems with it as is. Seems like a good and balanced LA 0 race to me. Good job! :clap:
Glitch28 03-01-07, 09:47 AM	The OP is definitely to powerful without an LA and is amazingly more powerful then either of the parent races. Griffin, I like your take on it. The only thing I have to point out is that since they count as both elf and orc for situations based on race that means they qualify for both the elf and orc paragon classes. For a race considered shameful to both races I find that kind of funny. It might be more to the flavor of the race that they don't count like either. This thread is a good argument for why Half-elf and Half-orc should be a LA+0 Template and Orc should be a base race in the PHB. Im kinda new here. what is an LA and an OP?
Eerongal 03-01-07, 09:54 AM	Im kinda new here. what is an LA and an OP? LA = Level Adjustment OP = Original Post kthxbai!
Edo_555 03-01-07, 12:27 PM	In my humble opinion Orc + Elf would be Human;)
AMGriffin 03-01-07, 12:44 PM	LA= Level adjustment. Don't feel like explaining this. OP= The original post.
JarionSilverblades 08-22-07, 04:54 PM	In my humble opinion Orc + Elf would be Human;) I don't see it.
baronvonboxy 08-25-07, 02:53 PM	about 4 years ago some one brought this idea to the table, and it got approved by the DM. I was playing an Elf Ranger favored enemy orcs. (Cliché) Needless to say that was a sort lived character. 2 Shots from my longbow, he was gone.
JarionSilverblades 08-29-07, 03:47 PM	about 4 years ago some one brought this idea to the table, and it got approved by the DM. I was playing an Elf Ranger favored enemy orcs. (Cliché) Needless to say that was a sort lived character. 2 Shots from my longbow, he was gone. Stuff like that's why I added the feat, if an Orc-elf choose elf he wouldn't count as your favored enemy.
imakuni67 08-29-07, 07:14 PM	As far as a Paragon class, just make a new one for them. HD: d10 BAB: Full Saves: Fort best Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Swim (Str). 2 + Int Prof: simple and martial weapons as well as the orc double-axe, light and medium armor. Abilities: 1st: Improved Darkvision (+30 feet), +2 Search 2nd: Rage 1/day, +1 versus enchantment, +1 spellcasting 3rd: Ability boost (+2 Dex) I think that would show better the outcast side more and show a struggle between the two bloodlines in the race. As far as the race goes though I'd go +2 Str, -2 Cha +1 to spot and listen +2 intimidate Low light vision Dark vision 30 +1 versus enchantment And just let them have the mixed blood already for effects. For prestige classes, it would depend on which race they were raised with (or who accepts them). With classes like Arcane Archer or Eye of Gruumsh, you shouldn't just become them. You should be intiated into them. Don't give a penalty to diplomancy or whatever, it already has the charmisa penalty. Skill penalties, especially ones to Cha skills should be up to the DM to determine the circumstance penalty.
JarionSilverblades 09-02-07, 06:54 PM	Orc-elf Paragon Hit Dice: d8 Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis) Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day 1st +0 +2 +0 +0 Divided ancestry, no Light sensitivity - 2nd +1 +3 +0 +0 Enchantment resistance +1 level of warmage 3rd +2 +3 +1 +1 Ability boost (Dex +2) +1 level of warmage Spells per Day: At 2nd and 3rd level a orc-elf paragon gains new spells per day and known as if they had also gained a level of Warmage. They do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that an orc-elf paragon adds the level of orc-elf paragon to their level of warmage, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If an orc-elf paragon has no levels in warmage, this feature has no effect. Divided Ancestry: Unlike other racial paragons, Orc-elves can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a Orc-elf paragon, a character can take either Elf paragon levels or Orc paragon levels (but not both). Also a orc-elf with the Blood Ties feat may only take levels in the paragon that corresponds with their Blood ties choice. No Light-Sensitivity: At 1st level Orc-elves paragon loses their light sensitivity. Enchantment Resistance: An Orc-elf paragon’s racial bonus on saves against enchantment spells and effects increases by 1. Ability boost: At 3rd level an Orc-elf paragon’s Dexterity score increases by 2 points.
Rania 09-03-07, 03:39 PM	As a matter of flavour, I would suggest that elves and orcs might not produce fertile offspring. Rather like a mule. :PThat actually makes a good deal of sense.