Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blood_of_the_ancient 04-17-07, 08:39 AM	Nezumi/Ratfolk These are anthropomorphic rats. Use whatever flavor you wish, this isn't anything special. In my campaign: The Nezumi have a long history of being a small, but very hard to wipe out, sewer-dwelling species. They have plagued the Empire since it was born by raiding the supply stocks. Basically a bunch of thieves, subsisting in the sewers, as they cannot be accepted in normal society. The Nezumi were made outcasts in the first place because of a handful of demon-worshiping ratfolk who made a name for themselves long before any others did. These powerful creatures have all become undead or fiends now, and are scattered across the planes. The largest Nezumi tribe lives in the massive sewer system of the city Northern Aureon, where they coexist with shadow creatures and low-ranking cast-off fiends. Racial Features > -4 str, +4 dex, +2 int, -2 cha > Scent > Low-light vision > Rat Empathy (Ex): Communicate with rats and dire rats, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against rats and dire rats. > CR/LA +0 So, balanced, or no?
Seldriss 04-17-07, 11:10 AM	Why do they have this +2 Int ? And is it necessary to give them this +4 to Dex ? Wouldn't +2 be enough ? About balance, most of the people will tell you that a bonus to a casting ability is worth a LA. Same for Scent. My suggestion : Small size (natural AC+1, attack +1, hide +4, limitations for weapons & weight) Speed 30 (despite the small size) -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha (small, fast and agile, but not bright and considered unpleasant by most other races) Low light vision Scent Wild Empathy with rats (limited communication) Hide +2, Move Silently +2, Spot +2 (sneaky bastards) Reputation : -3 reaction penalty from civilized people (bad reputation as tieves and trouble makers) LA +0
InsanePsychoRabbit 04-17-07, 04:22 PM	Nezumi/ratfolk appear in Oriental Adventures, FYI. The book is 3.0, however, but there's an update for it in Dragon issue 318.
RobbyPants 04-17-07, 04:27 PM	I don't think that the +2 Int is a balance problem (as there are many LA +0 races that have bonuses to mental stats), but I'm not sure if you need it for flavor... As for balance, while technically, a -4 Str balances a +4 dex, I can assure you that you will get no shortage of people who pick this race, take levels in rogue, and Weapon Finesse. All they're left with is a penalty to damage, which will be easily offset by the sneak attack damage. Also, the boost to Int makes it attractive to wizards as well (who usually dump Str, and are in need of a good Dex). I'd suggest putting them at -2/+2 instead. You'll probably still end up with lots of rogues and wizards, but at least it won't be so bad.
blood_of_the_ancient 04-18-07, 09:37 AM	True, and then they take that Martial Study feat, get Shadow Blade Technique or Clinging Shadow Strike, and take Shadow Blade as a feat, use their Dex mod for damage. Good point.
blood_of_the_ancient 04-18-07, 10:38 PM	Alright, new draft for the Nezumi... Racial Features -2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -5 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (rats only) LA +0 I'm wondering, what could we do to add in Slight Build? Any ideas?
Asilidae 04-19-07, 04:18 PM	Why do they have this +2 Int ? And is it necessary to give them this +4 to Dex ? Wouldn't +2 be enough ? About balance, most of the people will tell you that a bonus to a casting ability is worth a LA. Same for Scent. My suggestion : Small size (natural AC+1, attack +1, hide +4, limitations for weapons & weight) Speed 30 (despite the small size) -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha (small, fast and agile, but not bright and considered unpleasant by most other races) Low light vision Scent Wild Empathy with rats (limited communication) Hide +2, Move Silently +2, Spot +2 (sneaky bastards) Reputation : -3 reaction penalty from civilized people (bad reputation as tieves and trouble makers) LA +0 Rat's are VERY intelligent buddy.
RobbyPants 04-19-07, 04:23 PM	Alright, new draft for the Nezumi... Racial Features -2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -5 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (rats only) LA +0 This actually looks a lot like a goblin, sans the darkvision, with bad reputation to balance out the scent ability. All in all it seems pretty balanced. Perhaps change bad reputation to -4 or -2. I'm wondering, what could we do to add in Slight Build? Any ideas? What is slight build? Same size or smaller, whichever is perferable? That would probably take a bit more tweaking to squeeze that in for a LA +0. By the way, what size are they? With the listed stats, they'd make good small creatures.
Khargas 04-19-07, 04:57 PM	Alright, new draft for the Nezumi... Racial Features -2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -5 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (rats only) LA +0 I'm wondering, what could we do to add in Slight Build? Any ideas? I'd never pick this over a generic elf. I don't think losing the Str, and getting raped when it comes to Civilization is worth it.
blood_of_the_ancient 04-20-07, 07:25 AM	Rat's are VERY intelligent buddy. How intelligent? You think the +2 Int should stay? I originally put it in because of the Rat Moreaus in d20 Modern. By the way, what size are they? With the listed stats, they'd make good small creatures. Medium-sized. I'm still considering small, though. Or "Slight Build," small or medium, whichever is more beneficial. I don't think losing the Str, and getting raped when it comes to Civilization is worth it. Well, Scent is a strong ability. But you've got a point. Maybe we could change that Wild Empathy to Speak with Rats at will? Anybody like that idea?
Spikes01k 04-20-07, 08:25 AM	Looks good, but the scent ability, I have been told, is worth a LA by it's self.
RobbyPants 04-20-07, 09:39 AM	Medium-sized. I'm still considering small, though. Or "Slight Build," small or medium, whichever is more beneficial. Given their stats (-2 Str, +2 Dex, and -2 Cha) being a net negative (similar to goblins), consider making them small, but keeping the 30 ft speed. This is a nice balancing factor. You take a hit to damage (small weapons and a Str penalty), but you gain a bonus to AC, ranged attacks, and finessable weapons. The 30 ft speed makes them more attractive, compared to halflings and gnomes, if you're willing to take that hit in social interactions. Of course, a race like this just screams "rogue", but that might be what you're after (as even the PHB races tend to fit better into some roles than others). How intelligent? You think the +2 Int should stay? I originally put it in because of the Rat Moreaus in d20 Modern. If you decide to put the +2 Int back in, then you'll almost certainly have to drop the scent ability (to keep them LA +0). Don't try to offset this with lots of Diplomacy and Bluff penalties. A -2 penalty gives nice flavor, but anything more than that, and the character will just hide away from people, and suffer next to no negative effect.
blood_of_the_ancient 04-20-07, 10:59 AM	Hmm, okay... They seem more ranger-ish to me, with scent being useful for tracking. Racial Features -2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -5 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Speak with Animals at will (CL = HD) (rats only) LA +0 Racial Features Small sized Base land speed 30 feet -2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -2 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (rats only) LA +0 Racial Features -2 Strength +2 Dexterity +2 Intelligence -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -5 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Slight Build: In whatever ways it would be advantageous to them, Nezumi are treated as though they were Small sized instead of Medium-Sized. Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Speak with Animals at will (CL = HD) (rats only) LA +1 Which of these do you folks like?
RobbyPants 04-20-07, 12:50 PM	Which of these do you folks like? I'd say build #2, but that's probably because it's the closest to what I suggested :P I prefer the Wild Empathy to the speak with animals too, BTW.
Squirrelloid 04-20-07, 01:06 PM	Option 2 with the int bonus back in. Seriously, Scent is not worth an LA. A riding dog has scent, and any first level character could start with one. (A druid usually does as an Animal Companion). WotC considers lots of stupid things to be worth LA that aren't actually - choose stats that are actually balanced. Option 2 is still the best without the int bonus, but i would always take Grey Elf over it. (especially as grey elf gets a rocking wizard substitution level).
blood_of_the_ancient 04-24-07, 02:07 PM	Racial Features Small sized Base land speed 30 feet -2 Strength +2 Dexterity +2 Intelligence -2 Charisma Bad Reputation: Nezumi take a -2 racial penalty to bluff and diplomacy checks when dealing with almost all civilized people, as they have a bad reputation as thieves and dark cultists. Low-light vision Scent Stealthy: Nezumi receive the feat Stealthy as a bonus feat. Wild Empathy (rats only) LA +0 So, how does this look?
RobbyPants 04-24-07, 02:53 PM	All, in all, I'd say it's pretty good, other than that I think one of three things needs to go: 30 ft speed (drop to 20) +2 Int bonus Scent ability My suggestion would be to drop the Int bonus. A small race with a speed of 30 ft is considered relatively strong. The standard goblin has -2 Str, +2 Dex, and -2 Cha (the same as the Nezumi without the Int bonus), and they are small and get a speed of 30 ft. On top of this your Nezumi get scent. Now, you did offset this with the Bad Repuation ability, and by giving them Stealthy (as opposed to a +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently, which I'd consider more powerful). So again, my suggestion is to take exactly what you've posted, and remove the +2 Int bonus. My :twocents: