Nymph Savage Progression [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nymph Savage Progression [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dragoonspear
03-08-07, 01:19 PM Hi all,

I am going to be DMing a new campaign, starting at level 10, and one of my players wants to play a nymph but they have an ECL of 13 so I was wondering if there is a savage progression for nymphs somewhere. :confused:

If not, then would this progression be balanced (not front loaded etc.) for the nymph?

Level HD BAB Fort Ref Will Skill points Spell level Special
1st 1d6 +0 +0 +2 +2 (6+int mod)x4 as druid1 +4cha, 30ft, 20ft swim, low light vision, wild empathy, +8 swim checks, feat
2nd 2d6 +1 +1 +3 +3 6+int mod +2dex, beauty(dazzled)
3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 0 as druid2 unearthly grace(half Cha mod, rounded down)
4th 3d6 +1 +1 +3 +3 6+int mod +2wis
5th +1 +1 +3 +3 0 as druid3 beauty(shaken), feat
6th 4d6 +2 +1 +4 +4 6+int mod +2int, dr5/ cold iron
7th +2 +1 +4 +4 0 as druid4 dimension door 1/day
8th 5d6 +2 +1 +4 +4 6+int mod +2dex, stunning glance
9th +2 +1 +4 +4 0 as druid5 +2con
10th 6d6 +3 +2 +5 +5 6+int mod +4cha, +2wis, unearthly grace(full Cha mod)
11th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 as druid6 dr10/ cold iron, feat
12th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 +2int
13th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 as druid7 +2dex,wis,int, beauty(blinded)

The beauty(dazzled, shaken & blinded) are the same as the nymph's blinding beauty ability except that the effect that it has slowly becomes more powerful as the nymph progresses.

Any constructive critisizm welcome:D
WinterPsionic
03-08-07, 01:24 PM Looks good to me, I was gonna put one together so I can use a lower level Nymph cohort(don't ask) but now I think I'll just use your's.

Good Job!
DarkRhystar
03-08-07, 01:38 PM First try (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?referrerid=406019&t=750903)

I know there are lots of these. There was one one the classes board not too long ago. Seems every month or so someone makes another. :)
Finfreeze
03-08-07, 01:42 PM Fey get 6 SP per HD.

Let's see...How about spreading out the wild empathy check bonus over a few levels? The third level is pretty dead, so why not take some things from other levels and put it there? I'd go for unearthly grace (save bonus xor AC bonus, if both is too much). I would also rearrange the HD progression so that the nymph gets most—but probably not all—of its racial hit dice earlier on.

Finally, the save progressions seem a bit wonky. They sometimes advance even without a hit die gain.

It's a nice start, though.
dragoonspear
03-08-07, 02:39 PM Ok, thanks Finfreeze for spotting the deliberate mistakes:D.

I think i will put a lesser version of your suggestion for the 3rd level in ie. add half your cha bonus rounded down to saves & AC.

I have edited the first post
HammerSmashed
03-10-07, 11:24 AM Why not suggest a Half Nymph.

http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf

http://crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php

Same place but just in case first one does not work. BTW itrs on pg.8
runestar
03-10-07, 11:34 AM I like the idea of letting her start off with 1 lv of druid spellcasting at ECL1, which then improves by 1 every other lv (for the pattern):P
dragoonspear
03-10-07, 12:06 PM I did suggest the half nymph template to the player, but she liked the special abilities given by the nymph despite the improvement in HD and choice it would bring.

Thanks for suggesting it anyway.

I've got another question.
Do the nymph's blinding beauty & stunning glance count as gaze attacks?
WinterPsionic
03-10-07, 01:34 PM I did suggest the half nymph template to the player, but she liked the special abilities given by the nymph despite the improvement in HD and choice it would bring.

Thanks for suggesting it anyway.

I've got another question.
Do the nymph's blinding beauty & stunning glance count as gaze attacks?

Stunning Glance, yes as she has to look at the target
Blinding Beauty, ....I'm not sure if it could be considered a Gaze, it's more like the Catoblepas where you turn to stone(but get a save) whenever you look at it
DarkRhystar
03-10-07, 02:10 PM I like the idea of letting her start off with 1 lv of druid spellcasting at ECL1, which then improves by 1 every other lv (for the pattern):P

Yep. Really, Nymphs need something at level 1 to do during battle; spells are perfect. As it stands, this Nymph progression is the equivalent of a Commoner in battle at level 1.

The other progression also begins with DR 2/Cold Iron which is a nice touch for early survival.

Another thing is putting the first two racial Hit Die at levels 1 and 2. If you read the Savage Species, you'll notice that this is done for a lot of monster classes in order to increase survivability at lower levels. Hit Die gain levels usually mirror Fighter bonus feat levels.

Finally, as a fair warning, the Nymph is very weak for its ECL. It has absolutely worthless BAB (worse than a Wizard thanks to LA) and 7th level casting isn't impressive at ECL 13. The Stunning Glance and Blinding Beauty can only go so far.
runestar
03-10-07, 09:41 PM It shouldn't fare too badly. Its druid7 spellcasting should still let it contribute in combat with battlefield control spells. Both gaze attacks can be spammed with impunity. Its quite fragile for its ECL, but played carefully, it should still be able to fare quite decently.:)
DarkRhystar
03-11-07, 05:12 AM It shouldn't fare too badly. Its druid7 spellcasting should still let it contribute in combat with battlefield control spells. Both gaze attacks can be spammed with impunity. Its quite fragile for its ECL, but played carefully, it should still be able to fare quite decently.:)

The problem is "Where do you go for level 14?" Melee classes are out of the picture due to the BAB. Spellcasting classes are, in general, out thanks to a hefty 13 ECL.

One of the best ideas I've seen to fix this is to allow the Druid class or similar classes to enhance the Nymph's spellcasting. Rich Burlew (creator of OotS) also has feats for a Fey Druid including one that makes Charisma the primary casting stat.

Otherwise... you better like those Nymph special abilities a lot.
runestar
03-11-07, 05:17 AM Take additional druid lvs or a prc which improves spellcasting. They will stack with the nymph's existing druid7 spellcasting. You should be able to fill in a support role nicely.:)
dragoonspear
03-11-07, 02:09 PM I think I will move the HD gains to lvls 1,2,4,6, etc and the spells to lvls 1,3,5,... would be a good idea as the nymph becomes more survivable at lower levels and they are out of sync. so you don't get a lot of gains on one level and then a dead level. The reason that I didn't move the HD gains before is that I was thinking earlier that you wouldn't be getting any HD for the last three levels, but that doesn't really matter as you already have them.:lightbulb

I am not sure how the DR should be split up between the levels, any ideas?

I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills.

If you think that the nymph is fairly weak in combat, don't forget that they can get an animal companion to chew up the enemy when you have stunned/blinded them. I highly recomend the feat Natural Bond from CA as you can then get a bigger, chompier animal friend.:cheer:
DarkRhystar
03-11-07, 04:38 PM I am not sure how the DR should be split up between the levels, any ideas?

I like the 2, 5, 10 idea, but it's good as you have it now. You might consider adding 2/Cold Iron at level 2 or such.

I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills.

The Druid way is decent. The problem as I see it is that the Nymph winds up relying very heavily on Blinding Beauty and Stunning Glance almost irrespective of what she does.

If you think that the nymph is fairly weak in combat, don't forget that they can get an animal companion to chew up the enemy when you have stunned/blinded them. I highly recomend the feat Natural Bond from CA as you can then get a bigger, chompier animal friend.:cheer:

Um, Nymphs don't get an animal companion. Druids do but it's based of Druid levels and not character levels (or Nymph HD). A level 1 animal companion isn't going to last long at level 14. Natural Bond is nice, but it's only a level 4 animal companion at level 14.
dragoonspear
03-12-07, 01:03 PM Oh yeah, I forgot about the animal companion thing-the last campaign I played was an old 3.0 version when there was a spell called animal friendship on the druid's spell list so I was getting a bit confused with the different versions there. Oh well...
Hammerclaw
03-12-07, 02:21 PM I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills.

No need to house rule it, it says so in the SRD: A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

Therefore, a fully progressed Nymph Druid 1 has the spell casting ability of an 8th level Druid. But for all its other Druid abilities, it is only 1st level.
WinterPsionic
03-12-07, 03:01 PM Oh yeah, I forgot about the animal companion thing-the last campaign I played was an old 3.0 version when there was a spell called animal friendship on the druid's spell list so I was getting a bit confused with the different versions there. Oh well...

One word....or three "Awakened Animal" Cohort :p
Gharlane
03-12-07, 07:12 PM First try (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?referrerid=406019&t=750903)

I know there are lots of these. There was one one the classes board not too long ago. Seems every month or so someone makes another. :)

It's nice to see someone reference my work.
DarkRhystar
03-13-07, 02:28 AM It's nice to see someone reference my work.

It's nice to see work worth referencing. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragoonspear 03-08-07, 01:19 PM	Hi all, I am going to be DMing a new campaign, starting at level 10, and one of my players wants to play a nymph but they have an ECL of 13 so I was wondering if there is a savage progression for nymphs somewhere. :confused: If not, then would this progression be balanced (not front loaded etc.) for the nymph? Level HD BAB Fort Ref Will Skill points Spell level Special 1st 1d6 +0 +0 +2 +2 (6+int mod)x4 as druid1 +4cha, 30ft, 20ft swim, low light vision, wild empathy, +8 swim checks, feat 2nd 2d6 +1 +1 +3 +3 6+int mod +2dex, beauty(dazzled) 3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 0 as druid2 unearthly grace(half Cha mod, rounded down) 4th 3d6 +1 +1 +3 +3 6+int mod +2wis 5th +1 +1 +3 +3 0 as druid3 beauty(shaken), feat 6th 4d6 +2 +1 +4 +4 6+int mod +2int, dr5/ cold iron 7th +2 +1 +4 +4 0 as druid4 dimension door 1/day 8th 5d6 +2 +1 +4 +4 6+int mod +2dex, stunning glance 9th +2 +1 +4 +4 0 as druid5 +2con 10th 6d6 +3 +2 +5 +5 6+int mod +4cha, +2wis, unearthly grace(full Cha mod) 11th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 as druid6 dr10/ cold iron, feat 12th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 +2int 13th +3 +2 +5 +5 0 as druid7 +2dex,wis,int, beauty(blinded) The beauty(dazzled, shaken & blinded) are the same as the nymph's blinding beauty ability except that the effect that it has slowly becomes more powerful as the nymph progresses. Any constructive critisizm welcome:D
WinterPsionic 03-08-07, 01:24 PM	Looks good to me, I was gonna put one together so I can use a lower level Nymph cohort(don't ask) but now I think I'll just use your's. Good Job!
DarkRhystar 03-08-07, 01:38 PM	First try (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?referrerid=406019&t=750903) I know there are lots of these. There was one one the classes board not too long ago. Seems every month or so someone makes another. :)
Finfreeze 03-08-07, 01:42 PM	Fey get 6 SP per HD. Let's see...How about spreading out the wild empathy check bonus over a few levels? The third level is pretty dead, so why not take some things from other levels and put it there? I'd go for unearthly grace (save bonus xor AC bonus, if both is too much). I would also rearrange the HD progression so that the nymph gets most—but probably not all—of its racial hit dice earlier on. Finally, the save progressions seem a bit wonky. They sometimes advance even without a hit die gain. It's a nice start, though.
dragoonspear 03-08-07, 02:39 PM	Ok, thanks Finfreeze for spotting the deliberate mistakes:D. I think i will put a lesser version of your suggestion for the 3rd level in ie. add half your cha bonus rounded down to saves & AC. I have edited the first post
HammerSmashed 03-10-07, 11:24 AM	Why not suggest a Half Nymph. http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf http://crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php Same place but just in case first one does not work. BTW itrs on pg.8
runestar 03-10-07, 11:34 AM	I like the idea of letting her start off with 1 lv of druid spellcasting at ECL1, which then improves by 1 every other lv (for the pattern):P
dragoonspear 03-10-07, 12:06 PM	I did suggest the half nymph template to the player, but she liked the special abilities given by the nymph despite the improvement in HD and choice it would bring. Thanks for suggesting it anyway. I've got another question. Do the nymph's blinding beauty & stunning glance count as gaze attacks?
WinterPsionic 03-10-07, 01:34 PM	I did suggest the half nymph template to the player, but she liked the special abilities given by the nymph despite the improvement in HD and choice it would bring. Thanks for suggesting it anyway. I've got another question. Do the nymph's blinding beauty & stunning glance count as gaze attacks? Stunning Glance, yes as she has to look at the target Blinding Beauty, ....I'm not sure if it could be considered a Gaze, it's more like the Catoblepas where you turn to stone(but get a save) whenever you look at it
DarkRhystar 03-10-07, 02:10 PM	I like the idea of letting her start off with 1 lv of druid spellcasting at ECL1, which then improves by 1 every other lv (for the pattern):P Yep. Really, Nymphs need something at level 1 to do during battle; spells are perfect. As it stands, this Nymph progression is the equivalent of a Commoner in battle at level 1. The other progression also begins with DR 2/Cold Iron which is a nice touch for early survival. Another thing is putting the first two racial Hit Die at levels 1 and 2. If you read the Savage Species, you'll notice that this is done for a lot of monster classes in order to increase survivability at lower levels. Hit Die gain levels usually mirror Fighter bonus feat levels. Finally, as a fair warning, the Nymph is very weak for its ECL. It has absolutely worthless BAB (worse than a Wizard thanks to LA) and 7th level casting isn't impressive at ECL 13. The Stunning Glance and Blinding Beauty can only go so far.
runestar 03-10-07, 09:41 PM	It shouldn't fare too badly. Its druid7 spellcasting should still let it contribute in combat with battlefield control spells. Both gaze attacks can be spammed with impunity. Its quite fragile for its ECL, but played carefully, it should still be able to fare quite decently.:)
DarkRhystar 03-11-07, 05:12 AM	It shouldn't fare too badly. Its druid7 spellcasting should still let it contribute in combat with battlefield control spells. Both gaze attacks can be spammed with impunity. Its quite fragile for its ECL, but played carefully, it should still be able to fare quite decently.:) The problem is "Where do you go for level 14?" Melee classes are out of the picture due to the BAB. Spellcasting classes are, in general, out thanks to a hefty 13 ECL. One of the best ideas I've seen to fix this is to allow the Druid class or similar classes to enhance the Nymph's spellcasting. Rich Burlew (creator of OotS) also has feats for a Fey Druid including one that makes Charisma the primary casting stat. Otherwise... you better like those Nymph special abilities a lot.
runestar 03-11-07, 05:17 AM	Take additional druid lvs or a prc which improves spellcasting. They will stack with the nymph's existing druid7 spellcasting. You should be able to fill in a support role nicely.:)
dragoonspear 03-11-07, 02:09 PM	I think I will move the HD gains to lvls 1,2,4,6, etc and the spells to lvls 1,3,5,... would be a good idea as the nymph becomes more survivable at lower levels and they are out of sync. so you don't get a lot of gains on one level and then a dead level. The reason that I didn't move the HD gains before is that I was thinking earlier that you wouldn't be getting any HD for the last three levels, but that doesn't really matter as you already have them.:lightbulb I am not sure how the DR should be split up between the levels, any ideas? I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills. If you think that the nymph is fairly weak in combat, don't forget that they can get an animal companion to chew up the enemy when you have stunned/blinded them. I highly recomend the feat Natural Bond from CA as you can then get a bigger, chompier animal friend.:cheer:
DarkRhystar 03-11-07, 04:38 PM	I am not sure how the DR should be split up between the levels, any ideas? I like the 2, 5, 10 idea, but it's good as you have it now. You might consider adding 2/Cold Iron at level 2 or such. I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills. The Druid way is decent. The problem as I see it is that the Nymph winds up relying very heavily on Blinding Beauty and Stunning Glance almost irrespective of what she does. If you think that the nymph is fairly weak in combat, don't forget that they can get an animal companion to chew up the enemy when you have stunned/blinded them. I highly recomend the feat Natural Bond from CA as you can then get a bigger, chompier animal friend.:cheer: Um, Nymphs don't get an animal companion. Druids do but it's based of Druid levels and not character levels (or Nymph HD). A level 1 animal companion isn't going to last long at level 14. Natural Bond is nice, but it's only a level 4 animal companion at level 14.
dragoonspear 03-12-07, 01:03 PM	Oh yeah, I forgot about the animal companion thing-the last campaign I played was an old 3.0 version when there was a spell called animal friendship on the druid's spell list so I was getting a bit confused with the different versions there. Oh well...
Hammerclaw 03-12-07, 02:21 PM	I've always thought of a nymph progressing into druid levels at level 14 with the houserule that the spell levels stack, or possibly into rogue as the ability to blind people and high charisma go well with sneak attacks and all those cha-based skills. No need to house rule it, it says so in the SRD: A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability. Therefore, a fully progressed Nymph Druid 1 has the spell casting ability of an 8th level Druid. But for all its other Druid abilities, it is only 1st level.
WinterPsionic 03-12-07, 03:01 PM	Oh yeah, I forgot about the animal companion thing-the last campaign I played was an old 3.0 version when there was a spell called animal friendship on the druid's spell list so I was getting a bit confused with the different versions there. Oh well... One word....or three "Awakened Animal" Cohort :p
Gharlane 03-12-07, 07:12 PM	First try (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?referrerid=406019&t=750903) I know there are lots of these. There was one one the classes board not too long ago. Seems every month or so someone makes another. :) It's nice to see someone reference my work.
DarkRhystar 03-13-07, 02:28 AM	It's nice to see someone reference my work. It's nice to see work worth referencing. ;)