odd race, need input [Archive] - Wizards Community

odd race, need input [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ragoftag
05-07-07, 11:15 PM Concept: a semi-octopus race

Wulladodak (Dak)
A race of octopus-like creatures with a complex set of 'prehensile tails' as arms.

An amphibian race that resembles octopus, Dak have an internal skeletal structure that allows them to operate both in and out of water. Dak have organs that act as both gills and lungs, allowing speech both in and out of water. While they need double the water of other creatures under most conditions, they do not need immersion as other aquatic races do. They have a tough exterior skin extending down each 'arm/leg' with a softer internal gripping surface on the inner part of each limb.

Weak physically and poorly socialized, Dak have a tyrannical culture that demands obedience to authority and hard work. Only recently have they developed 'friendly' relations with elvish and other positive minded races allowing trade and cooperation to grow.

Dak prefer to live in coral and rock structures modified to protect inhabitants from sharks and other predators. The smallest are of hamlet size, but few exceed the size of a small village. Dak secret a gummy resin that serves as a weak,temporary bond to hold rocks together until coral grows over to form real structures. Each community is guided by a LN druid who is in charge of the 'reef'. Young are no longer considered 'food', but with each female laying hundreds of eggs and scant few surviving their first year on the reef, parental attachment is unknown.

Formerly a race of primitive hunter/gatherers, Dak now trade the bounty of the water for metal goods.

Some Dak flee their tightly controlled home communities to explore the surfaces world, trade, etc. Rare as they are, they have found their own place among adventurers.

-2 str, -2 cha, Dak are not built for brute strength and strike many surface dwellers as creepy. Even in their own communities, rigid rules replace interpersonal skills.

Move 20', swim 40'
Further movement 'rules' (shamelessly modified fron Yabba's thoughts):
On land: If they use less than 3 limbs as legs, they immediately fall prone and stay that way. They are not bipedal. When opposing a trip or bull rush attempt, they gain a +2 X bonus per extra limb being used as a leg. Movement (including 5 ft steps) requires 3 legs. Balance, tumbling, etc get the '+2 per leg' bonus as well. They may crawl at 5', +5 per 2 limbs after first.

In the water: To use their swim speed normally, at least three of their limbs must be used as legs. With two legs, they can move normally at half speed. Using only one leg, they may only swim 5 ft as an action. If using all their limbs as arms, they cannot move. (They are not immobilized. They simply are not ambulatory.) They may not take 10 on swim checks with less than 3 legs, but still benefit from the +8 swim bonus provided by their swim speed. Armor penalties apply as normal. For any circumstance that would normally require a swim check, increase the DC by 5 for each limb less than three that they can use as legs, add +2 for each over 3. They can drop items (free action) to use additional limbs as legs. Swimming is an innate, racial skill, and a '10' may always be taken.

Climbing: They gain a +2 to their climb check for every limb after 3. When using two limbs to climb, their speed is reduced by half, but otherwise remains unchanged. They cannot move while using only one limb to climb, but may remain in place with no penalty. If they release with all limbs, they fall (duh). Climb is an innate, racial skill, and a '10' may always be taken.

Always: Treat them as always eligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Drop all weapon sizes usable by one step (Medium becomes Small, etc) unless an extra limb is used to manipulate the weapon. Exception, punch daggers are easily held. WahuliDek have few weapons adapted to their physiology. Masterwork (Dak) weapons are available that eliminate this restriction. Because of their unusual body structures, all base armor costs would be double.

Medium size

Due to their weaker limb structure, Dak do not like to use shields out of water. If they do, it requires an extra limb (2), or two (3) for Tower Shields. They much prefer Bucklers and Parrying weapons

Glue: Dak chew forth, in a manner similar to a bee creating wax, a Glue composed of fish bones, coral chips and 'spit' that forms a resin that holds rocks or other material long enough to let coral grow over it. Water activated and using live coral in the 'cement/concrete', the Glue has a DC of 10 + a third the Dak's Hit dice. It acts much like 'hot glue' that can be used to surround or cradle a Small piece of structure and that can then be stuck to other things. Similar to using ropes and using similar rules. It has the advantage of 'always' having some, but not being reusable. It last for only a few days (d6), but under the care of a Dak Druid, it lasts her level more days. Such would direct the settlement's construction work. A Druid would also be able to effectively double the amount of material worked. The bond has no hardness and its hit points equal 1 (3 if druid farmed) + a third the Dak's Hit Dice. This is a biologically active goo, and must remain very wet as it dries rapidly into dust in air, but even in the ocean, it serves as food to sea creatures, the druid's farming is what makes it last until coral grows to replace it. Out of water, the glue is no more sticky than finger tac.

Grappling monster: Due to the race's unique form, they are exceptional at grappling. Add the total number of limbs devoted to grappling the their roll. Limbs holding items and acting as legs do not count.

Magic Items: Wulladodak, WahuliDek or whatever they call themselves, may not use Rings, Gloves, or any Footwear locations. Body items must be modified, as must Armor, with other items generally being used normally. The unique case are Bracers, as a Dak with the Multiweapon feat may use an extra set on a second set of limbs, but similar effects would not stack. Alternately, Bracers could be used with Bucklers.
YabaTheWhat
05-08-07, 08:27 AM How about limb growth by hit dice? They start with four limbs, each of which can act as an arm or a leg. At 5 hitdice, and every 5 hitdice thereafter, they grow an additional limb.

On land: If they use all limbs as arms, they immediately fall prone and stay that way. They must make a balance check to remain standing on less than three limbs when they use standard or full-round actions, with a DC based on how they use their limbs. When opposing a trip or bull rush attempt, they are treated as one size larger for every extra leg beyond three, or one size smaller for every leg less than three, on which they stand. Movement (including 5 ft steps) requires two legs, or one leg by making standing jumps. (A balance check would be needed at the end of each jump.)

Balance DC to remain standing = 6 x arms / legs

So if they have 3 arms and 1 leg, the DC is 18 (6x3/1). If they have two of each, the DC is 6 (6x2/2). If they use 3 or more legs, no balance check is needed. The basic balance formula does not change when they gain an extra limb, but the extra limb modifies the DCs.

In the water: To use their swim speed normally, at least three of their limbs must be used as legs. With two legs, they can move normally at half speed, or at their full speed by making a successful swim check (DC = half of distance moved). Using only one leg, they may move at half speed with a successful swim check (DC = distance moved), cannot move full speed, and cannot take a 5 ft step as a free action. If using all their limbs as arms, they cannot move. (They are not immobilized. They simply are not ambulatory.) They may not take 10 on swim checks with less than 3 legs, but still benefit from the +8 swim bonus provided by their swim speed. Armor penalties apply as normal. For any circumstance that would normally require a swim check, increase the DC by 5 for each limb less than three that they can use as legs. They can drop items (as a free action) to use additional limbs as legs.

Swim DC to move = distance moved (in feet) / legs

For example, to move 30 ft with two limbs, they must make a DC 15 (30/2) swim check. The DC is 12.5 for 25 ft, 17.5 for 35 ft, or 20 for 40 ft. If they cut down to 1 limb, they can move 5 ft at DC 5 (should be easy with their +8 bonus), 10 ft at DC 10, 15 ft at DC 15, or 20 ft at DC 20. If they are caught in a whirlpool with an escape DC of 25, and have only one limb free, treat the DC as 35 (25 + 5 x (3-1)).

Climbing: They may use their climb speed normally with 3 or more limbs. When using two limbs to climb, their speed is reduced by half (to 10 ft), but otherwise remains unchanged. They cannot move while using only one limb to climb, but may remain in place with no penalty. If they release with all limbs, they fall (duh).

Always: Treat them as always elligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Because of their unusual body structures, armor would cost double.

Do their limbs have finger-like protrusions at the ends? Also, can their excretions be used as a weapon? Whether they can or not, the substance needs a strength DC to break the bonds.

This race will probably have a level adjustment of at least +1 (climb speed, swim speed, breathes water & air, and can use extra weapons), but it's hard to say for certain until the details of their abilities have been resolved.

The strength penalty will hurt them in the martial classes, though the extra attacks can more than make up for the loss if used correctly. Rogues of this race would work well, because extra attacks means extra sneak attack damage, and their climb speed will help them get into flanking position. Casters based on intelligence or wisdom would work okay, but don't gain as much benefit from the extra limbs. Charisma casters generally wouldn't use this race, because the extra limbs aren't worth the sacrifice in their casting stat.
ragoftag
05-09-07, 02:17 AM YabaTheWhat
How about limb growth by hit dice? They start with four limbs, each of which can act as an arm or a leg. At 5 hitdice, and every 5 hitdice thereafter, they grow an additional limb.Was trying to stay with paired limbs, but the number of pairs could be altered, so long as only 2 count as 'arms'. The original race had 6 limbs.

Do their limbs have finger-like protrusions at the ends? Also, can their excretions be used as a weapon? Whether they can or not, the substance needs a strength DC to break the bonds.Oops, all limbs end in a spade-like, fingerless flipper that functions like a 2 opposable thumbed hand with a lone finger, all in a mitten. A Dak can use any 2 limbs as hands, the limitation is in the brain. No sitting on the ground and shooting 4 crossbows. The 'glue' got me. It was supposed to be a throw-away explaining their racial 'reef building'. PCs would never try to use that, would they? (heh heh) It would need to be slow to produce and not spoiled by water. The growing coral is the actual structure, the goo just 'tacs' it in place.

Treat them as always eligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Because of their unusual body structures, armor would cost double.I'm partial to a limit of 1/2 their limbs, max. Again, the brain is not geared to full use of all limbs at once. Armor would cost double, at least, and be unusable by other races. Going to have to think on other items.

+1? Trying to get it at 0. Perhaps an inbuilt flaw or drawback... There are larger kin in the sea, but bigger and more vicious.
Nathreet
05-09-07, 03:09 AM I'd give it a bonus to climb checks instead of an actual climb speed.
YabaTheWhat
05-09-07, 08:40 AM Changing up the order a bit to connect related statements. Was trying to stay with paired limbs, but the number of pairs could be altered, so long as only 2 count as 'arms'. The original race had 6 limbs.

Oops, all limbs end in a spade-like, fingerless flipper that functions like a 2 opposable thumbed hand with a lone finger, all in a mitten. A Dak can use any 2 limbs as hands, the limitation is in the brain. No sitting on the ground and shooting 4 crossbows.

I'm partial to a limit of 1/2 their limbs, max. Again, the brain is not geared to full use of all limbs at once. Normal octopi don't have a two-arm limitation. Ever seen one open a jar? They use as many limbs as a task takes for whatever functions they best serve. They're smarter than many people think.

While I can understand your desire to keep the number of limbs even, adding two limbs at once is a pretty significant power boost if they're used as arms, and if they're not used as arms, then extra limbs only make them quadrupeds, which takes away from the originality of the race. Allowing them to use up to half their limbs as arms would be reasonable, if you plan to start them with four limbs and add two limbs at every fifth hit die. Use the rules I already described for stability based on added legs. If you decide to increase their carrying capacity also, do not exceed 25% per extra limb (matching the 50% increase for quadrupeds).

With regards to crossbows, it sounds like their mitten-like hands can't even grip crossbows properly. How would one go about pulling the trigger while keeping the crossbow steady? If they wrap the limb around it in a coil, the motion of pulling the trigger will change their aim. My suggestion is to state that a normal crossbow may only be fired with two arms. (They need two arms to load it anyway, as do most races, so it's perfectly fair.) If they want to fire a crossbow one-armed, it must be specially crafted to suit their anatomy (at masterwork cost). This will keep their ranged attacks limited at low levels (since no other ranged weapon may be used prone), and by higher levels it won't matter. The 'glue' got me. It was supposed to be a throw-away explaining their racial 'reef building'. PCs would never try to use that, would they? (heh heh) It would need to be slow to produce and not spoiled by water. The growing coral is the actual structure, the goo just 'tacs' it in place. You need to state how much surface they can cover with their glue, how long the process takes, what subsances it does or doesn't affect (if it has any limitations; glue works on everything by default), the break DC for the bond, whether it works on land or only underwater, and how long it lasts before dissolving. +1? Trying to get it at 0. Perhaps an inbuilt flaw or drawback... There are larger kin in the sea, but bigger and more vicious. Drawbacks are overrated. If a drawback is only harmful to some classes, then members of the race would simply avoid those classes. If a drawback hampers all classes, it could prove crippling to the point where no one plays your race. If you want to get the race down to LA+0, you need to temper their benefits.
ragoftag
05-10-07, 07:53 PM It was pointed out that they could be more vulnerable to inhaled (air/water) poisons due to having a dual resperatory system. Thoughts?

YabbaNormal octopi don't have a two-arm limitation. ~ They're smarter than many people think.True, I used to have crab traps and a single octi can pop one in seconds! scary.

Ever seen one open a jar? They use as many limbs as a task takes for whatever functions they best serve. True, but it is a single task. Perhaps allowing the extra limbs to 'Aid'? The 'limit' becomes less a matter of 'limbs used' than 'actions take-able', right? Advancement would then be a matter of bringing up mental coordination.

With regards to crossbows, it sounds like their mitten-like hands can't even grip crossbows properly. How would one go about pulling the trigger while keeping the crossbow steady? If they wrap the limb around it in a coil, the motion of pulling the trigger will change their aim.SCA 'armourers' make 'light crossbows' in period style, with a lever 'trigger'. Easy pressure release. But a light crossbow should remain 2 handed as you said. The image was supposed to be of 4 pairs of arms, shooting prone.

Glue should be more in the line of a 'tac' that holds rocks or other material long enough to let coral grow over it. Water activated and possibly using actual coral like 'cement/concrete'. Perhaps 10 + Hit die as a DC, and act more like 'hot glue' that can be used to surround and cradle a piece of structure and then stuck to other things. Similar to using ropes and using similar rules. Advantage of 'always' having some, but not being being reusable. It would last for days, but in the 'hands' of a Dak Druid, who knows. Such would direct the settlement's work. If it matters, in their main appearance, the Dak alchemist uses his 'spit', out of water, as finger-tac to turn pages in a large tome in his shop. His use of extra arms to hold ingredients while stirring them in was fun to write.

Nathreet I'd give it a bonus to climb checks instead of an actual climb speed.Sounds good, and would likely work better. How much of a bonus, and how might it work with Yabba's suggestions above? Extra arms counting as a bonus?
ragoftag
05-20-07, 10:52 AM Just got back from the Chattanooga Aquarium, complete with their 'expert', a min-wage who feeds the Octipi! Got to handle a small one (15 lb?). Very strong and quite persistent, it was a lot like sentient spaghetti, attempting to escape. When I started 'wonk-speak' about it, the Min-wage turned out to be a FF1+ geek, and we devolved into Gamespeak. Got some good input and stirred it in with Yabba's and Nathreet's input.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ragoftag 05-07-07, 11:15 PM	Concept: a semi-octopus race Wulladodak (Dak) A race of octopus-like creatures with a complex set of 'prehensile tails' as arms. An amphibian race that resembles octopus, Dak have an internal skeletal structure that allows them to operate both in and out of water. Dak have organs that act as both gills and lungs, allowing speech both in and out of water. While they need double the water of other creatures under most conditions, they do not need immersion as other aquatic races do. They have a tough exterior skin extending down each 'arm/leg' with a softer internal gripping surface on the inner part of each limb. Weak physically and poorly socialized, Dak have a tyrannical culture that demands obedience to authority and hard work. Only recently have they developed 'friendly' relations with elvish and other positive minded races allowing trade and cooperation to grow. Dak prefer to live in coral and rock structures modified to protect inhabitants from sharks and other predators. The smallest are of hamlet size, but few exceed the size of a small village. Dak secret a gummy resin that serves as a weak,temporary bond to hold rocks together until coral grows over to form real structures. Each community is guided by a LN druid who is in charge of the 'reef'. Young are no longer considered 'food', but with each female laying hundreds of eggs and scant few surviving their first year on the reef, parental attachment is unknown. Formerly a race of primitive hunter/gatherers, Dak now trade the bounty of the water for metal goods. Some Dak flee their tightly controlled home communities to explore the surfaces world, trade, etc. Rare as they are, they have found their own place among adventurers. -2 str, -2 cha, Dak are not built for brute strength and strike many surface dwellers as creepy. Even in their own communities, rigid rules replace interpersonal skills. Move 20', swim 40' Further movement 'rules' (shamelessly modified fron Yabba's thoughts): On land: If they use less than 3 limbs as legs, they immediately fall prone and stay that way. They are not bipedal. When opposing a trip or bull rush attempt, they gain a +2 X bonus per extra limb being used as a leg. Movement (including 5 ft steps) requires 3 legs. Balance, tumbling, etc get the '+2 per leg' bonus as well. They may crawl at 5', +5 per 2 limbs after first. In the water: To use their swim speed normally, at least three of their limbs must be used as legs. With two legs, they can move normally at half speed. Using only one leg, they may only swim 5 ft as an action. If using all their limbs as arms, they cannot move. (They are not immobilized. They simply are not ambulatory.) They may not take 10 on swim checks with less than 3 legs, but still benefit from the +8 swim bonus provided by their swim speed. Armor penalties apply as normal. For any circumstance that would normally require a swim check, increase the DC by 5 for each limb less than three that they can use as legs, add +2 for each over 3. They can drop items (free action) to use additional limbs as legs. Swimming is an innate, racial skill, and a '10' may always be taken. Climbing: They gain a +2 to their climb check for every limb after 3. When using two limbs to climb, their speed is reduced by half, but otherwise remains unchanged. They cannot move while using only one limb to climb, but may remain in place with no penalty. If they release with all limbs, they fall (duh). Climb is an innate, racial skill, and a '10' may always be taken. Always: Treat them as always eligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Drop all weapon sizes usable by one step (Medium becomes Small, etc) unless an extra limb is used to manipulate the weapon. Exception, punch daggers are easily held. WahuliDek have few weapons adapted to their physiology. Masterwork (Dak) weapons are available that eliminate this restriction. Because of their unusual body structures, all base armor costs would be double. Medium size Due to their weaker limb structure, Dak do not like to use shields out of water. If they do, it requires an extra limb (2), or two (3) for Tower Shields. They much prefer Bucklers and Parrying weapons Glue: Dak chew forth, in a manner similar to a bee creating wax, a Glue composed of fish bones, coral chips and 'spit' that forms a resin that holds rocks or other material long enough to let coral grow over it. Water activated and using live coral in the 'cement/concrete', the Glue has a DC of 10 + a third the Dak's Hit dice. It acts much like 'hot glue' that can be used to surround or cradle a Small piece of structure and that can then be stuck to other things. Similar to using ropes and using similar rules. It has the advantage of 'always' having some, but not being reusable. It last for only a few days (d6), but under the care of a Dak Druid, it lasts her level more days. Such would direct the settlement's construction work. A Druid would also be able to effectively double the amount of material worked. The bond has no hardness and its hit points equal 1 (3 if druid farmed) + a third the Dak's Hit Dice. This is a biologically active goo, and must remain very wet as it dries rapidly into dust in air, but even in the ocean, it serves as food to sea creatures, the druid's farming is what makes it last until coral grows to replace it. Out of water, the glue is no more sticky than finger tac. Grappling monster: Due to the race's unique form, they are exceptional at grappling. Add the total number of limbs devoted to grappling the their roll. Limbs holding items and acting as legs do not count. Magic Items: Wulladodak, WahuliDek or whatever they call themselves, may not use Rings, Gloves, or any Footwear locations. Body items must be modified, as must Armor, with other items generally being used normally. The unique case are Bracers, as a Dak with the Multiweapon feat may use an extra set on a second set of limbs, but similar effects would not stack. Alternately, Bracers could be used with Bucklers.
YabaTheWhat 05-08-07, 08:27 AM	How about limb growth by hit dice? They start with four limbs, each of which can act as an arm or a leg. At 5 hitdice, and every 5 hitdice thereafter, they grow an additional limb. On land: If they use all limbs as arms, they immediately fall prone and stay that way. They must make a balance check to remain standing on less than three limbs when they use standard or full-round actions, with a DC based on how they use their limbs. When opposing a trip or bull rush attempt, they are treated as one size larger for every extra leg beyond three, or one size smaller for every leg less than three, on which they stand. Movement (including 5 ft steps) requires two legs, or one leg by making standing jumps. (A balance check would be needed at the end of each jump.) Balance DC to remain standing = 6 x arms / legs So if they have 3 arms and 1 leg, the DC is 18 (6x3/1). If they have two of each, the DC is 6 (6x2/2). If they use 3 or more legs, no balance check is needed. The basic balance formula does not change when they gain an extra limb, but the extra limb modifies the DCs. In the water: To use their swim speed normally, at least three of their limbs must be used as legs. With two legs, they can move normally at half speed, or at their full speed by making a successful swim check (DC = half of distance moved). Using only one leg, they may move at half speed with a successful swim check (DC = distance moved), cannot move full speed, and cannot take a 5 ft step as a free action. If using all their limbs as arms, they cannot move. (They are not immobilized. They simply are not ambulatory.) They may not take 10 on swim checks with less than 3 legs, but still benefit from the +8 swim bonus provided by their swim speed. Armor penalties apply as normal. For any circumstance that would normally require a swim check, increase the DC by 5 for each limb less than three that they can use as legs. They can drop items (as a free action) to use additional limbs as legs. Swim DC to move = distance moved (in feet) / legs For example, to move 30 ft with two limbs, they must make a DC 15 (30/2) swim check. The DC is 12.5 for 25 ft, 17.5 for 35 ft, or 20 for 40 ft. If they cut down to 1 limb, they can move 5 ft at DC 5 (should be easy with their +8 bonus), 10 ft at DC 10, 15 ft at DC 15, or 20 ft at DC 20. If they are caught in a whirlpool with an escape DC of 25, and have only one limb free, treat the DC as 35 (25 + 5 x (3-1)). Climbing: They may use their climb speed normally with 3 or more limbs. When using two limbs to climb, their speed is reduced by half (to 10 ft), but otherwise remains unchanged. They cannot move while using only one limb to climb, but may remain in place with no penalty. If they release with all limbs, they fall (duh). Always: Treat them as always elligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Because of their unusual body structures, armor would cost double. Do their limbs have finger-like protrusions at the ends? Also, can their excretions be used as a weapon? Whether they can or not, the substance needs a strength DC to break the bonds. This race will probably have a level adjustment of at least +1 (climb speed, swim speed, breathes water & air, and can use extra weapons), but it's hard to say for certain until the details of their abilities have been resolved. The strength penalty will hurt them in the martial classes, though the extra attacks can more than make up for the loss if used correctly. Rogues of this race would work well, because extra attacks means extra sneak attack damage, and their climb speed will help them get into flanking position. Casters based on intelligence or wisdom would work okay, but don't gain as much benefit from the extra limbs. Charisma casters generally wouldn't use this race, because the extra limbs aren't worth the sacrifice in their casting stat.
ragoftag 05-09-07, 02:17 AM	YabaTheWhat How about limb growth by hit dice? They start with four limbs, each of which can act as an arm or a leg. At 5 hitdice, and every 5 hitdice thereafter, they grow an additional limb.Was trying to stay with paired limbs, but the number of pairs could be altered, so long as only 2 count as 'arms'. The original race had 6 limbs. Do their limbs have finger-like protrusions at the ends? Also, can their excretions be used as a weapon? Whether they can or not, the substance needs a strength DC to break the bonds.Oops, all limbs end in a spade-like, fingerless flipper that functions like a 2 opposable thumbed hand with a lone finger, all in a mitten. A Dak can use any 2 limbs as hands, the limitation is in the brain. No sitting on the ground and shooting 4 crossbows. The 'glue' got me. It was supposed to be a throw-away explaining their racial 'reef building'. PCs would never try to use that, would they? (heh heh) It would need to be slow to produce and not spoiled by water. The growing coral is the actual structure, the goo just 'tacs' it in place. Treat them as always eligible for the multiweapon fighting feats. Because of their unusual body structures, armor would cost double.I'm partial to a limit of 1/2 their limbs, max. Again, the brain is not geared to full use of all limbs at once. Armor would cost double, at least, and be unusable by other races. Going to have to think on other items. +1? Trying to get it at 0. Perhaps an inbuilt flaw or drawback... There are larger kin in the sea, but bigger and more vicious.
Nathreet 05-09-07, 03:09 AM	I'd give it a bonus to climb checks instead of an actual climb speed.
YabaTheWhat 05-09-07, 08:40 AM	Changing up the order a bit to connect related statements. Was trying to stay with paired limbs, but the number of pairs could be altered, so long as only 2 count as 'arms'. The original race had 6 limbs. Oops, all limbs end in a spade-like, fingerless flipper that functions like a 2 opposable thumbed hand with a lone finger, all in a mitten. A Dak can use any 2 limbs as hands, the limitation is in the brain. No sitting on the ground and shooting 4 crossbows. I'm partial to a limit of 1/2 their limbs, max. Again, the brain is not geared to full use of all limbs at once. Normal octopi don't have a two-arm limitation. Ever seen one open a jar? They use as many limbs as a task takes for whatever functions they best serve. They're smarter than many people think. While I can understand your desire to keep the number of limbs even, adding two limbs at once is a pretty significant power boost if they're used as arms, and if they're not used as arms, then extra limbs only make them quadrupeds, which takes away from the originality of the race. Allowing them to use up to half their limbs as arms would be reasonable, if you plan to start them with four limbs and add two limbs at every fifth hit die. Use the rules I already described for stability based on added legs. If you decide to increase their carrying capacity also, do not exceed 25% per extra limb (matching the 50% increase for quadrupeds). With regards to crossbows, it sounds like their mitten-like hands can't even grip crossbows properly. How would one go about pulling the trigger while keeping the crossbow steady? If they wrap the limb around it in a coil, the motion of pulling the trigger will change their aim. My suggestion is to state that a normal crossbow may only be fired with two arms. (They need two arms to load it anyway, as do most races, so it's perfectly fair.) If they want to fire a crossbow one-armed, it must be specially crafted to suit their anatomy (at masterwork cost). This will keep their ranged attacks limited at low levels (since no other ranged weapon may be used prone), and by higher levels it won't matter. The 'glue' got me. It was supposed to be a throw-away explaining their racial 'reef building'. PCs would never try to use that, would they? (heh heh) It would need to be slow to produce and not spoiled by water. The growing coral is the actual structure, the goo just 'tacs' it in place. You need to state how much surface they can cover with their glue, how long the process takes, what subsances it does or doesn't affect (if it has any limitations; glue works on everything by default), the break DC for the bond, whether it works on land or only underwater, and how long it lasts before dissolving. +1? Trying to get it at 0. Perhaps an inbuilt flaw or drawback... There are larger kin in the sea, but bigger and more vicious. Drawbacks are overrated. If a drawback is only harmful to some classes, then members of the race would simply avoid those classes. If a drawback hampers all classes, it could prove crippling to the point where no one plays your race. If you want to get the race down to LA+0, you need to temper their benefits.
ragoftag 05-10-07, 07:53 PM	It was pointed out that they could be more vulnerable to inhaled (air/water) poisons due to having a dual resperatory system. Thoughts? YabbaNormal octopi don't have a two-arm limitation. ~ They're smarter than many people think.True, I used to have crab traps and a single octi can pop one in seconds! scary. Ever seen one open a jar? They use as many limbs as a task takes for whatever functions they best serve. True, but it is a single task. Perhaps allowing the extra limbs to 'Aid'? The 'limit' becomes less a matter of 'limbs used' than 'actions take-able', right? Advancement would then be a matter of bringing up mental coordination. With regards to crossbows, it sounds like their mitten-like hands can't even grip crossbows properly. How would one go about pulling the trigger while keeping the crossbow steady? If they wrap the limb around it in a coil, the motion of pulling the trigger will change their aim.SCA 'armourers' make 'light crossbows' in period style, with a lever 'trigger'. Easy pressure release. But a light crossbow should remain 2 handed as you said. The image was supposed to be of 4 pairs of arms, shooting prone. Glue should be more in the line of a 'tac' that holds rocks or other material long enough to let coral grow over it. Water activated and possibly using actual coral like 'cement/concrete'. Perhaps 10 + Hit die as a DC, and act more like 'hot glue' that can be used to surround and cradle a piece of structure and then stuck to other things. Similar to using ropes and using similar rules. Advantage of 'always' having some, but not being being reusable. It would last for days, but in the 'hands' of a Dak Druid, who knows. Such would direct the settlement's work. If it matters, in their main appearance, the Dak alchemist uses his 'spit', out of water, as finger-tac to turn pages in a large tome in his shop. His use of extra arms to hold ingredients while stirring them in was fun to write. Nathreet I'd give it a bonus to climb checks instead of an actual climb speed.Sounds good, and would likely work better. How much of a bonus, and how might it work with Yabba's suggestions above? Extra arms counting as a bonus?
ragoftag 05-20-07, 10:52 AM	Just got back from the Chattanooga Aquarium, complete with their 'expert', a min-wage who feeds the Octipi! Got to handle a small one (15 lb?). Very strong and quite persistent, it was a lot like sentient spaghetti, attempting to escape. When I started 'wonk-speak' about it, the Min-wage turned out to be a FF1+ geek, and we devolved into Gamespeak. Got some good input and stirred it in with Yabba's and Nathreet's input.