Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Courrain 01-21-07, 01:00 PM	I know that the title of my post is going to earn me some odd looks :embarrass , but this morning I found myself wondering what would happen if wildshaped druid was to accidentally mate with animal. Would such an accidental mating result in an anthropomorphic animal or an intelligent animal that could speak Common? My idea of an accidental mating: (A) The Druid gets drunk before wildshaping and let's his inhibitions go. (B) The Druid is under the influence of a mind-affecting spell while wildshaped. (C) The Druid suffers a head injury and gets amnesia while wildshaped. (D) Was the temporary recipient of a Baleful Polymorph spell. It was dispelled by a fellow spellcaster but not before.. I can imagine that some of the anthropomorphic animal races or intelligent animals/ magic beasts could have been the result of what I am talking about here. One can never know for sure. ;)
Crimson_Concerto 01-21-07, 02:10 PM	accidentally mate with animal. That's funny to me... Anyways, this topic is discussed extensively on the Mature board. That would probably be the best place to take it...
Wall 01-21-07, 02:17 PM	Yeah, this has come up on the races board before though. Most of the responses were "Ewewewewewwww!" and no real discussion got done... Anyway, yeah, the best place for this is the Mature Board. Although I do think that that might be one way shifters came about...
pres_man 01-21-07, 02:20 PM	I know that the title of my post is going to earn me some odd looks :embarrass , but this morning I found myself wondering what would happen if wildshaped druid was to accidentally mate with animal. Would such an accidental mating result in an anthropomorphic animal or an intelligent animal that could speak Common? My idea of an accidental mating: (A) The Druid gets drunk before wildshaping and let's his inhibitions go. (B) The Druid is under the influence of a mind-affecting spell while wildshaped. (C) The Druid suffers a head injury and gets amnesia while wildshaped. (D) Was the temporary recipient of a Baleful Polymorph spell. It was dispelled by a fellow spellcaster but not before.. I can imagine that some of the anthropomorphic animal races or intelligent animals/ magic beasts could have been the result of what I am talking about here. One can never know for sure. ;) Sure if that is what the DM wanted to do. In fact if you read the Elfquest stories there is a character Timmorn Yellow-Eyes with this type of background. Also in the MM4 there are a race of goblinoids that are descended from mixing of hobgoblins and worgs.
halflingofthenorth 01-21-07, 02:23 PM	wow there would be some intereting half races here 1)half orc/lizardfolk 2)half human/rabbit 3)half kobold/elf well they may not be that great but its a start any body else have a wierd mishap half races
snakeman830 01-21-07, 02:27 PM	How do you think minotaurs came into being? No, just joking there. There are lots of possibilities to come out of that issue. Possibly taurics?
yrogerg 01-21-07, 07:47 PM	How do you think minotaurs came into being? No, just joking there. Really? Because it was, in fact the Minotaur's origin.
Courrain 01-21-07, 10:57 PM	That's funny to me... Anyways, this topic is discussed extensively on the Mature board. That would probably be the best place to take it... Okay... I was thinking more from a biological viewpoint than a rated R one. I wasn't trying to imply anything sexual. It's just that 3.0 and 3.5 D&D unlike previous editions has quite a number of hybrid races running around. And I can't help but wonder the hows and whys of two completely different beings would come together intentionally or unintentionally to create such beings.
runestar 01-21-07, 11:30 PM	The mature forum has indeed examined this topic in detail, though opinions are still pretty split.:)
nighttree 01-22-07, 12:03 AM	Actually you would probably get no result...... Either a species can breed (because they are VERY close genetically) or you get nothing (which is why you don't see a lot of Half canine/feline critters running around)....:D A Wild shaped Druid would have to either be considered genetically compatible during wild shape (full.....whatever animal is in question), or If still carrying human genes....you would get no pregnancy from the "breeding".
Oblix 01-22-07, 12:58 PM	Actually you would probably get no result...... Either a species can breed (because they are VERY close genetically) or you get nothing (which is why you don't see a lot of Half canine/feline critters running around)....:D A Wild shaped Druid would have to either be considered genetically compatible during wild shape (full.....whatever animal is in question), or If still carrying human genes....you would get no pregnancy from the "breeding". Humans and pigs can breed. The pig is the only known animal which has been proven to create a living embryo/then later fetus, of both pig and human DNA. Although suffering extreme malformations including a non-working brain and nervous system. Other animals such as cows and chimps can come to term with said fetus as well, but generally the genetic birth defects kill the baby directly after birth. These experiments have been attempted and documented many times over the last three hundred years and are the basis for the idea for the island of dr. morrow. I would imagine that if something this close can happen in RL, that a polymorphed druid who is going as far as to take on the animal's specific traits would be able to conceive.
HellflameArcanite 01-22-07, 01:24 PM	OK...you obviously have a...unique way of thinking, let's leave it at that.
celestialkin 01-22-07, 01:45 PM	What if the druid was the female? Would she conceive a child? Here are my thoughts on this: 1) If the druid was the female she could possibly conceive a child, and since the mother carrying the child was a humanoid you would probably get something like a Minotaur or an anthropomorphic animal. 2) If the druid was the male the offspring would possibly be something akin to an awakened animal. p.s. #2 could also be used to explain why animals like Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=768697) and Dm_Farble's (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=776613) rabbits are sentient.
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 02:18 PM	Here are my thoughts: 1) The creature is born as an animal 2) The creature is born as an animal and quickly reverts to human shape after birth 3) Nothing happens 4) Thus a werewolf is born. 5) Thus a Gnoll is born 6) Add the properties of both races to the creature, with an animal template. Sort of like a Centaur or a Satyr exept with the properties of the parent races.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 02:26 PM	Well, since when wildshaped you assume the extraordinary, non-magical characteristics of an animal, probably the offspring would be a normal animal too. If it's not, I'd blame it more on your magical powers (kinda like radiation, perhaps?) than on the form. If as a tiger you have the physical characteristics of one, I'd presume you have the genes for it. Now the problem is, if the druid was female and she got pregnant. In this case I think if she didn't somehow stay in that shape for days on end, I think it would be like a mini-miscarriage without risks to her health or future fertility. I hope it's not offending anyone that I'm writing this here, but I presume everyone is above 12-ish or so. Edit: Mind you, that implies no magical intervention. Basically, the correct answer to anything involving a mid-high level spellcaster in good standing is "er, whatever you want it to be" (particularly true with a 7th level arcane spell and a few 9-level spells, but since it's in the druid's "territory" there's no rule that s/he can't think of a prayer on the spot).
PhaedrusXY 01-22-07, 03:00 PM	Humans and pigs can breed. The pig is the only known animal which has been proven to create a living embryo/then later fetus, of both pig and human DNA. Although suffering extreme malformations including a non-working brain and nervous system. Other animals such as cows and chimps can come to term with said fetus as well, but generally the genetic birth defects kill the baby directly after birth. These experiments have been attempted and documented many times over the last three hundred years and are the basis for the idea for the island of dr. morrow. Do you have any references for this? It's kind of hard to figure out a way to search for this kind of thing on the internet without getting... undesirable... results. One of the only things I've found on the subject is here (http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/mol-evol/1995-September/003371.html), and it is basically just hear-say. I also found several references to interfamilial hybrids among birds such as chickens, guieafowl, and peafowl.
Oblix 01-22-07, 04:27 PM	Do you have any references for this? It's kind of hard to figure out a way to search for this kind of thing on the internet without getting... undesirable... results. One of the only things I've found on the subject is here (http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/mol-evol/1995-September/003371.html), and it is basically just hear-say. I also found several references to interfamilial hybrids among birds such as chickens, guieafowl, and peafowl. Sorry, I'm just referencing from memory old college biology material, as for which I definitely do not have the source books to refer back to anymore.
TheCarrionCrawler 01-22-07, 04:40 PM	If one of Eberron's changlings gets pregnant while in another form via their racial ability, they cannot change forms until the child is born. I'll try to dig up the page reference... Edit-Ha! I got it. Races of Eberron, page 45.
Crimson_Concerto 01-22-07, 04:43 PM	Honestly, if I really HAD to give an answer, I'd just say that since there are no canon explanations of such things, it's all up to chance, the same way you can't really predict whether you're going to have a boy or a girl. The result of said pregnancy and even the probability of the pregnancy in general is all up to chance. If there is a child, multiple other factors would affect how it's born. I don't think there would just be one set answer that applies to every case.
yrogerg 01-22-07, 06:34 PM	If one of Eberron's changlings gets pregnant while in another form via their racial ability, they cannot change forms until the child is born. I'll try to dig up the page reference... Edit-Ha! I got it. Races of Eberron, page 45. Also, in Eberron, there's supposed to be some sort of near-kinship between the Valenar and their horses, though whether it's because the Warhorses are cursed Valenar Elves or because Valenar druids ...played a role... is left up to interpretation.
asurademon 01-22-07, 10:21 PM	Do you have any references for this? It's kind of hard to figure out a way to search for this kind of thing on the internet without getting... undesirable... results. One of the only things I've found on the subject is here (http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/mol-evol/1995-September/003371.html), and it is basically just hear-say. I also found several references to interfamilial hybrids among birds such as chickens, guieafowl, and peafowl. Our DNA is not close enough to that of a chimp (which is the closest related animal to h0m0 sapiens known alive at this time, but still not in the same genus as humans are), let alone a pig which isn't a close relative of the h0m0 genus, let alone the h0m0 sapiens species, pigs aren't even in the same family that we are, though they are in the same class (mammals of course). Neither of those creatures aren even in our own genus, and that's as distantly related as animals can get and reproduce at all, and I'm pretty certain that includes fetuses that misscarry. Creatures of the same species can produce fertile young (well infertility among individuals aside), infact that is part of the definition of species (which does gets kinda iffy when your dealing with creatures that reproduce asexually) creatures that aren't of the same species, but are in the same genus might be able to produce sterile young, depending on the particular species involved. There are a few exceptions of very closely related species (which it actually is kinda debatable whether they really are just subspecies of the same species at this point) can occasionally have fertile young, while a good number of their young are sterile (house cats, and asian leopard cats are an example of this, the result being a bangel (sp?) cat). Where are the mature forums anyways? I don't see them listed.
nighttree 01-22-07, 11:24 PM	That's Bengal....(I have one....:D ), and she is VERY much a wild cat.
asurademon 01-23-07, 01:26 AM	I had a friend in high school that had one, it looked like something between a miniature snow leopard, and a siamese cat, it seemed like a very calm animal, very cool pet. If I got a cat, I'd want one like that. Anyhow it's not as if D&D is scientific (not at all) when it comes to cross breedings, and when magic is involved all sorts of hyrbrids are possible. I think for the result to be an awakened animal would be an interesting approach, or a human with an animal's spirit could work to. Things like the Minotaur (yeah I know someone all ready mention the Minotaur) could happen too, how that beasty came about in mythology is not pretty. And once again where is the mature board? It would be nice to be able to post on a forum where typing in scientific names like **** sapiens doesn't result in a bunch of *** unless I spell it wrong. I find it very silly.
Airos 01-23-07, 03:56 AM	I had a friend in high school that had one, it looked like something between a miniature snow leopard, and a siamese cat, it seemed like a very calm animal, very cool pet. If I got a cat, I'd want one like that. Calm? :uh-huh: Not by a long shot. These cats are only calm when compared to either A: A super-nova or B: A 3 year-old after a 12-pack of Mt. Dew and a bag of Pixie Sticks. These cats will then wait until either runs out of energy, then lick it's face. I know that the title of my post is going to earn me some odd looks :embarrass , but this morning I found myself wondering what would happen if wildshaped druid was to accidentally mate with animal. Would such an accidental mating result in an anthropomorphic animal or an intelligent animal that could speak Common? I've seen this thread come up many times over many years. (I know it says I've only been a member since Oct 2006... I had an account on the previous boards that was wiped. Luckily I was able to get the same name.) All of the threads have more or less ended in the same way; There are no rules for this. The best advice you will get is to come up with your own house rules if if you think that this is actually going to come up during the course of your game. Expect a great number of odd looks, and perhaps even a couple of players walking, when this subject comes up. If you're not 100% sure you've got a totally mature, (or immature in some cases), group, this isn't going to fly. Just my :twocents:
NinjaPenguin 01-23-07, 09:29 AM	Making some attempt to use RAW as a basis, here are my 2 cp. Wild Shape is akin to Polymorph in that is causes you to take on the type of the form you assume. In this case Animal. Now it seems thatj according to the SRD, all of a creature's extraordinary special attacks are accessible, which would include poison, a chemical created by the body that then leaves the body to have an effect on a target. This both in the female-male and male-female pairings, I could see allowing fertility. If the animal is the female, I would suggest a normal animal, or perhaps a percentage chance of an awakened animal, DM's discretion on that. If the DRUID is the female, though, interesting things may or may not happen. The mating should be fertile, since you essenitally become that animal in all ways physically (gaining the Animal type would be evidence of this), but whether or not you'd remain fertil after turning back would be another story. IMO if a druid remained in the same animal form after conceiving for the full term, they'd give birth to a normal animal young, or possibly an awakened animal, DM's discretion. If the druid returned to normal form, however, things get weird. You have a few otpions here: 1) Infertility. The mother's body isn't capable of supporting the child and is aborted, possibly with injury to the mother in extreme cases. 2) Viable animal young. The druid's chanigng shape doesn't affect the form of the young, which is/are born, possibly quite painfully, as normal, or possibly awakened animals. This option is most likely if the druid remains animal for the majority of the term, but changes back late-term, though could easily happen normally. 3) Crossbreed. The druid's change is partially visited on the young, changing it/them into some form of hybrid, perhaps an anthropomorphic or similar creature. This seems most likely to happen with a mid-term return to form, though could happen normally. or 4) Normal. That is, normal for the female's base race. Since the breeding results in all parts becoming a part of the druid's body, and said body reutrns to 'normal' at the end of the Wild Shape effect, the child could easily be simply a normal individual of the Druid's race. The druid should be careful about Wild Shaping while pregnant, though, as any of the above effects might happen later in the term. This seems the most likely outcome if the Druid reverts to form very soon after conception. Hope this percolates some ideas. :)
obrysii 01-23-07, 09:47 AM	Where are the mature forums anyways? I don't see them listed. If you are under 17, it won't show the Mature Forums. If you are over, it's located under the D&D Styles area of the board.
Radijs 01-23-07, 10:36 AM	I notice that a lot of people are looking at the DNA that makes the species. A large part of the development of the infant is dependant on what kind of womb he/she is grown in.
zzakk2to2 01-23-07, 11:49 AM	4) Normal. That is, normal for the female's base race. Since the breeding results in all parts becoming a part of the druid's body, and said body reutrns to 'normal' at the end of the Wild Shape effect, the child could easily be simply a normal individual of the Druid's race. The druid should be careful about Wild Shaping while pregnant, though, as any of the above effects might happen later in the term. This seems the most likely outcome if the Druid reverts to form very soon after conception. With this maybe instead of being completely normal the child might be able to wildshape into that animal one or more times a day.
Dragonborn 01-23-07, 12:02 PM	This could also explain the origin of lycanthropes.
asurademon 01-23-07, 04:01 PM	If you are under 17, it won't show the Mature Forums. If you are over, it's located under the D&D Styles area of the board. ah, I realized late last night I didn't have my age entered in, so that problem is fixed now.
Skritz_the_Lizardmen 01-23-07, 05:38 PM	This could be used in a campaign setting to explain Minautor or Centaur!
zzakk2to2 01-23-07, 05:41 PM	This could be used in a campaign setting to explain Minautor or Centaur! this is the real world reason for the minautor in myth.
yrogerg 01-23-07, 06:21 PM	this is the real world reason for the minautor in myth. And no matter how many time people point that out, it's going to get completely ignored, if my earlier post was any indication.:allalone:
Draxo 01-23-07, 06:38 PM	Judging from some of the things ive seen online i dont think it would always be accidental.. x_x At any rate.. i read/heard somewhere that if a female who is shapechanged gets pregnant, they're trapped in that form till the pregnancy/method of conception is over.
Oblix 01-23-07, 07:05 PM	At any rate.. i read/heard somewhere that if a female who is shapechanged gets pregnant, they're trapped in that form till the pregnancy/method of conception is over. I believe that'd be page one of this thread. :teach:
klownmasterg 01-26-07, 01:45 AM	I imagine that the offspring would be physically identical to the hybrid form a lycanthrope can assume but with the average mental scores of the two base races rounded down.
Prime32 01-26-07, 05:29 PM	Dragons can create half-dragons by mating in Alternate Form. Druids... I don't know.
zzakk2to2 01-26-07, 05:30 PM	Dragons can create half-dragons by mating in Alternate Form. Druids... I don't know. with dragons all other creatures in general are smaller.
thaX 01-27-07, 01:04 AM	In my minds eye, this is what would happen Female animal would have Onebaby animal with higher INT, human empathy and the possibility of becoming "aware." Female druid would have a baby that.... 1- would be attuned to the mystical energies of magic (divine or arcane) 2- could have some physical traits of the animal that sired said baby. (from sharp canines to having fur... the imagination conjurs many things) 3- might be able to "awaken" a wildshape ability to go into a form of the animal that sired said baby. This could be taken as a feat by a player character (first level only) 4- have an inate abilitly to speak/comunitcate/commune with the same animals as that of the father of the baby. It would be a racial ability ingame. There are other possibilities that can be thought up. These are ones that can happen all at once or just one could happen or none at all. I suppose some chart could be brought into being but who would want to get that detailed in the d&d universe... wait, there was that 1000 results chart for the wand of wonder some time ago... forget I asked
Prime32 01-27-07, 08:06 AM	Sounds like a shifter to me.
zzakk2to2 01-27-07, 08:58 AM	You would have FURRYS!!! WEE
HolyGrenadeFrenzy 01-27-07, 05:10 PM	This really belongs on the Mature forum, I think. :confused:
Fallenangel359 01-27-07, 06:03 PM	a druid can't stay wildshaped continously. A druid can not wildshape from one shape directly into another, expending a new wildshape The druid would be forced back into original form in sometime less than a week. If she would keep the organism inside of her though, in its original form, as its not her, and its not magically effected by things that directly effect her. The animal would grown potentially normally, or potentially badly, depending on breed issues. Example, if the druid got impregnated by a housecat, she could have kittens. However, if she was impregnated by a large bird while in the form of a large bird, it could potentially kill her, or go into abortion mid cycle.
Courrain 01-27-07, 11:47 PM	This really belongs on the Mature forum, I think. :confused: I haven't really bothered looking at what is posted on the Mature forum. So what would make this topic more suited to that forum than this one? And what constitutes a mature topic on these boards anyway? *curious*
strange_person 02-06-07, 10:56 PM	Simple rule: when two dissimilar creatures mate by means of polymorph-like effects, the resulting offspring is less iconic/inherently magical of the parents, with the "half" template from the other parent, unless there's some more specific pregenerated monster available. Thus: Human/dragon hybrid is human with half-dragon template. Drow/Glabrezu hybrid is Draegloth (monsters of faerun). Human/animal hybrid is animal with half-human template. Where is the "half-human" template, you ask? In the back of Savage Species, listed as "Anthropomorphic." Problem solved, and it's consistent with the raw.
Alucard7087824 03-03-07, 08:54 PM	it would not have to be an accidental thing. if the druid was chaotic neutral they might do it for the sake of entertainment at birth