Offspring of Dragonborn [Archive] - Wizards Community

Offspring of Dragonborn [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sonofdrizzt
08-23-07, 11:07 PM What do you get when a Dragonborn of Bahamut mates with a non-dragonborn? like an elf or something?
Paulon
08-23-07, 11:28 PM Nothing. They're infertile.
CelticMutt
08-23-07, 11:37 PM Nothing. They're infertile.

And have absolutely no sex drive.
Rohano
08-24-07, 02:22 AM Nothing. They're infertile.
And have absolutely no sex drive.

And probably don't have any reproductive organs.

If it is possible for dragonborn to mate, I'd imagine that they are infertile.
And if they're not infertile, they probably don't have a libido to speak of, since they are a physical embodiment of something celestial.
Sorta like most celestial creatures. No need for reproduction if it's your big boss in the sky who manufactures your brothers and sisters.

But if dragonborn could reproduce, I'm leaning toward the offspring being some sort of draconian (see: Dragonlance). If dragonborn could reproduce to make more dragonborn, Bahamut would have to be saintly not to take advantage of that and start a bunch of paladin farms - rolling out eggs on conveyor belts.
asurademon
08-24-07, 04:23 AM And probably don't have any reproductive organs.

If it is possible for dragonborn to mate, I'd imagine that they are infertile.
And if they're not infertile, they probably don't have a libido to speak of, since they are a physical embodiment of something celestial.
Sorta like most celestial creatures. No need for reproduction if it's your big boss in the sky who manufactures your brothers and sisters.

But if dragonborn could reproduce, I'm leaning toward the offspring being some sort of draconian (see: Dragonlance). If dragonborn could reproduce to make more dragonborn, Bahamut would have to be saintly not to take advantage of that and start a bunch of paladin farms - rolling out eggs on conveyor belts.

except in D&D celestial creatures can reproduce, so that analogy doesn't really work in this case (though it would for your own home brew game if that's what you want).
Dragonborn are still flesh and blood beings, and mortal right? I don't own the book but did overlook their entry in it at some point. And just about anything in D&D can sire children with just about anything else it seems like anyhow. So I wouldn't expect dragonborn to be an exception. Or does it actually state somewhere else they don't reproduce?

Anyhow going by what little I know about dragonborn, I'd probably have the children of dragonborn either be

A: the race of the none-dragonborn parent with some subtle hints of dragonborn ancestry

B. Dragonborn can only have children with the race they originally came from, and those children are just normal children of that race.

or

C. As B except the children also have some subtle hint of dragonborn ancestry

If both parents are dragonborn, things could get interesting, I guess the result should be whatever the result would normally be if the two weren't dragonborn, maybe give the child some hint of dragonborn ancestry too. You could just treat their reproduction as functioning the same as it would if they weren't dragonborn in general I guess, with hints of dragonborn ancestry being a possibility.
sonofdrizzt
08-24-07, 04:54 PM sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (*cough cough*). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf?

thanx in advance!
Johnny_Angel
08-24-07, 08:12 PM Well, Dragonborn are treated as still being a member of their former race, so I suppose if they mated that nothing special would happen.

Dragonborn Elf + Elf = normal Elf
Dragonborn Elf + Dragonborn Human = normal half-elf

There might be a slight possibility that the offspring would have the celestial template.

That's my take on it.
asurademon
08-25-07, 12:00 AM sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (*cough cough*). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf?

thanx in advance!

I would just have the result be a half-elf (thus the same as what the result would be if the Dragonborn was just a normal human). If you want to give them something to show that they have dragonborn heritage, give them something which is purely cosmetic, perhaps clawlike fingernails, or a skin tone that's got a slightly purplish tone to it (going by the pictures of them I've seen, dragonborn have purple scales). I know those things aren't going to make it immediately obvious to the average person that the half-elf has some dragonborn blood in their veins (I don't think the average person in most D&D campaigns will even know what dragonborn are anyways) but it will show that they aren't your ordinary half-elf.
Tedronai
08-25-07, 02:48 AM Dragonborn are still members of their original race, so any offspring would turn out as they would have were the parent not a dragonborn, though, as mentioned, some slight heritage might show (if anything other than a purely cosmetic change, I'd suggest the 1st level of the draconic/half-dragon racial progression, but never gaining levels in that progression after the first, meaning no level adjustment)
Kurama Youko
08-25-07, 10:23 AM im pretty sure its says specifically in their break down that Dragonborns of Bahamut do not experience love/lust in the way of their former race, they wish only to serve Bahamut and furthere his cause. They do not get horny, they do not put out and they do not worry about the who keeps the baby? Because there is no baby to speak of.
sonofdrizzt
08-25-07, 10:55 AM im pretty sure its says specifically in their break down that Dragonborns of Bahamut do not experience love/lust in the way of their former race, they wish only to serve Bahamut and furthere his cause. They do not get horny, they do not put out and they do not worry about the who keeps the baby? Because there is no baby to speak of.

yes, but this is MY campaign. In it, if you read above, Bahamut cares not wether his children are as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. They are more sleeper agents than anything else, acting out his orders whenever he needs them.
Neutronium_Dragon
08-25-07, 11:07 AM It does, however, explicitly state that dragonborn are sterile, even if they (for some reason) do end up mating with someone. It's part of the price they pay for becoming a dragonborn, and also because Bahamut only wants someone to become a dragonborn by willing choice, not by accident of birth. That would go for "I have dragonborn ancestry" too, and has nothing to do with their level of piety. Even if he's simply interested in having sleeper agents - well, telling someone that they're now a sleeper agent for your cause because mommy and daddy did something they shouldn't have isn't likely to produce a particularly helpful sleeper agent.
sonofdrizzt
08-25-07, 11:14 AM It does, however, explicitly state that dragonborn are sterile, even if they (for some reason) do end up mating with someone. It's part of the price they pay for becoming a dragonborn, and also because Bahamut only wants someone to become a dragonborn by willing choice, not by accident of birth. That would go for "I have dragonborn ancestry" too, and has nothing to do with their level of piety. Even if he's simply interested in having sleeper agents - well, telling someone that they're now a sleeper agent for your cause because mommy and daddy did something they shouldn't have isn't likely to produce a particularly helpful sleeper agent.

But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the entire set up before galavanting a response! And im figuring to just go with the cosmetic adjustment, with a +1 to natural AC. And i dont care about the LA, cause the offspring are going to be NPCs (if they choose to have more than one)
EvilVegan
08-25-07, 11:22 AM They'd obviously be mongrelmen.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
08-25-07, 04:25 PM They'd obviously be mongrelmen.

I second this motion. Also, pics or it didn't happen.
sonofdrizzt
08-26-07, 03:28 AM I DON'T! I'm pretty sure my PC wouldn't want a mongrelfolk as a child. I mean, no offense to them, mongrelfolk have their place and its a good one. But im not givin my Pc and his wife a frikin mongrelfolk as a son/daughter!
EvilVegan
08-26-07, 09:51 AM Oh come on. Please?

You could make it live in a tower and talk to gargoyles. It'll be cute!

That being said, if you want to make it special have it be a platinum dragon or half-dragon, an omen of a great holy war to come. It'll be hard for the elf to lay an egg, but hopefully they're leathery like crocodile/turtle eggs.

Options:
Mongrelman
Dragonwraught Kobold
Half-dragon [platinum]
Half-celestial (with draconic features)
Aasimar (with elven/draconic features)
Half-elf
True Dragon
Gelatinous Cube
Kesthol
08-26-07, 10:22 AM Oh come on. Please?

You could make it live in a tower and talk to gargoyles. It'll be cute!

That being said, if you want to make it special have it be a platinum dragon or half-dragon, an omen of a great holy war to come. It'll be hard for the elf to lay an egg, but hopefully they're leathery like crocodile/turtle eggs.

Options:
Mongrelman
Dragonwraught Kobold
Half-dragon [platinum]
Half-celestial (with draconic features)
Aasimar (with elven/draconic features)
Half-elf
True Dragon
Gelatinous Cube

You forgot the obvious: Draconic Aasimar (treating Aasimar as a +1 LA template) Elf (or other base race). For the price of +2 LA, you get STR+2, CON+2, WIS+2, CHA+4, a host of useful features, and up to 2 different sorcerous bloodlines.

But yeah, page 13 of Races of the Dragon, the section titled Love, makes it pretty clear that they cannot reproduce (and although they retain their reproductive organs, they have absolutely no desire to use them in any capacity).
Kurama Youko
08-26-07, 11:11 AM A half elf who's insanely mad that Bahamut doesn't just reward people's off spring with super powers greater than any of his actual followers. :eek:

Seriously, Maybe its a Half Fiend Elf with a penchant for wanting to be a Dread Necromancer/Ninja. You know because Tiamat and Bahamut are actually Brother and Sister (who were supposed to marry one another), siblings of Io. Surely since they share the same father anything resulting from eithers bloodline more than likely could produce any random alignment restricted template. So since a Dragonborn is the child of Bahamut anything it has surely has the chance of being Evil as well as Good. Yes, im sure Tiamat will be happy with her grand nephew of Fiendlishly evil undead ninjitsu loving.

I hope that elf princess is into pain man, cause that 15 pound egg of love shes gonna be clammering to squeeze out is gonna be a pain butt. Literally. :)

Better still maybe its not the Dragonborns baby at all, maybe after that one night of pleasure its actually true that Dragonborns can't produce children, and Tiamat just had one of her half fiend dragon sons polymorph into a Human and sex the elf princess up with a disguise that looked like the Dragonborn the next day. Making the child a actual Half Fiend Half Dragon Elf? Wow trying playing this ungodly LA+7 race in the near future. He'd curbstomp his fake father and eat his mom.
EvilVegan
08-26-07, 11:52 AM Uh. Gross?
sonofdrizzt
08-26-07, 10:30 PM Guys, what the hell. Lets keep this litteral please! Mods, alittle help please? Im tryin to get some actual feedback, and the wedding is coming up in a couple sesions!
Saedar
08-26-07, 10:53 PM Look. You've houseruled that what it says about sterility is nul and void and that they aren't so much holy exemplars as they are devout worshipers with a twist. If you want to have them be about to reproduce, I would say even the +1 NA would be a lil much. But, do what you will. I think it sounds like a nifty idea and would be interested to know how it plays out. Maybe have them be terrorized by the other elves or somesuch. But insofar as how their heritage manifests, keep it simple and lacking no mechanical significance. Keep us updated! This sounds cool.
Neutronium_Dragon
08-26-07, 11:12 PM > But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the
> entire set up before galavanting a response!

I did. And my basic point remains: Your houserule is contradicting itself.

You want secret sleeper agents who aren't dedicated - those don't go together.
sonofdrizzt
08-27-07, 12:34 AM > But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the
> entire set up before galavanting a response!

I did. And my basic point remains: Your houserule is contradicting itself.

You want secret sleeper agents who aren't dedicated - those don't go together.

i never said they werent dedicated, i said they werent as pious as normal.

And I will keep you posted on the events to come. AND YOUR ALL INVITED TO THE WEDDING!!! hahahahaha, nah, stay away from my weddin you creeps.
EvilVegan
08-27-07, 08:30 AM I just want to mention that my suggestion was 100% serious. But I gave real suggestions as well. It really depends on how important this kid is going to be to future games.

A dragon being born to an elf is strange but it isn't impossible in D&D.

Personally, I'd make the child a perfectly formed half-elf with no draconic features, but draconic senses and abilities. He'd be a masterful sorcerer, have the dragon type, and age like a dragon.
sonofdrizzt
08-27-07, 03:21 PM Too powerful. The kid is gonna open HUGE hooks for me (heheheheheheh), but i dont want the thing to be more or less than what it's parents are.

On the note of class, since it IS an NPC, I will most likely make it a sorcerer-(insert martial class here) combo. Evemeire (The PC in question) is a Fighter/Cavalier who rides a Hippogriph, and works with the world's main empires army. Now, I think I already now what you are gonna say, but what should the second class be?
Fenris_Lathiin
08-27-07, 03:47 PM According to Races of the Dragon, Bahamut makes his Dragonborn sterile because he doesn't wish to force anyone to be a Dragonborn. He thinks that becoming a Dragonborn should always be a choice.

Since Bahamut intentionally makes his Dragonborn sterile for this reason, I would imagine that IF a Dragonborn was not sterile, the child would in fact be a Dragonborn himself.
EvilVegan
08-27-07, 03:51 PM You at least need to allow him to take the dragon-blooded feats/substitution levels from Races of the Dragon or maybe grant him access to a few clerical domains for his sorcerer spells (like dragons have). :D

As for class I wouldn't send him into dragon disciple. I'd send him into some of the more powerful classes. I'd allow him to use the (kobold) Rite of Ascension and Greater Ascension to get a +1 to his effective sorcerer level (for a feat and some gold). After that I'd take him into full caster PrCs.

But personally I'd make him a duskblade, a sorcerer, or a crusader, but I wouldn't try to gish him out too much.
EvilVegan
08-27-07, 03:54 PM We already covered the sterility (maybe you should edit the initial post to show that).

But I think if anything your logic shows that the child shouldn't be a dragonborn. If bahamut doesn't want people to be denied the choice to be a dragonborn, he could simply not change the genetic code of the reproductive organs when converting people into dragonborn. IE their children are normal.

This assuming he allows them to breed at all, which according to RAW he admittedly doesn't.
Fenris_Lathiin
08-28-07, 12:48 AM That's a point I hadn't considered. I was just thinking that, if the children of Dragonborn were not Dragonborn themselves, why make the Dragonborn sterile in the first place?
EvilVegan
08-28-07, 10:11 AM That's a point I hadn't considered. I was just thinking that, if the children of Dragonborn were not Dragonborn themselves, why make the Dragonborn sterile in the first place?

I can think of 2 reasons.

1) removed sex drive makes focusing on doing good easier
2) sterility prevents pregnancy which could lead to parenthood, which would distract from the active pursuit of the greater good.

And then the bonus:

3) sterility prevents pregnancy which leads to more carefree "adventures" if you know what I mean.

But then there's the removed sex drive. I'd just look at it like a vow of chastity.
AtsuiShoto
08-28-07, 12:04 PM The way Races of the Dragon says it:
As a dragonborn of Bahamut, you've "married" Bahamut in every way but the literal physical sense. Even physically, your new form is a representation of the marriage of your old self and the divine attributes of Bahamut.

Now, sonofdrizzt, if you've decided you want the Dragonborn in your campaign to be looser, less dedicated, less focused servants of Bahamut (heck, your dragonborn character is even serving under the direct orders of an entire mortal chain of command!), then what is Bahamut's motivation for affecting this huge physical change in people such as your character? For that matter, what is their motivation for undergoing this change? Do they even get a say in it?

I think the fundamental underpinnings of the Rite of Rebirth in your campaign has ALOT to do with the answer to your original question. Without knowing the details, I doubt anyone can help you adequately answer that question, since the only other details we have available are the ones in Races of the Dragon. Acording to those, there won't be any offspring of the Dragonborn of Bahamut. Ever.
sonofdrizzt
09-01-07, 12:15 AM Well, like I said, They are sleeper agents. They are used in times of great peril, and are also used by the high clerics of Bahamut to do the jobs that need to be done. They take on ALL the jobs they do in normal campaigns too, but only few go the full extent of celibacy. They are allowed to have their lives, but are vowed to do Bahamut's whims.

All in all, the Dragonborn are just as diverse as the races that make them.

By the way everyone, They have already been married, and have had their kid. It will be a normal Half-Elf with a +1 ac, two 1d3 claws, and a minor cosmetic adjustment (i.e.: Purple skin highlights, ridged ears and eyebrows, and draconic eyes. I'll keep you posted about its growth and development.
pigknight
09-28-07, 11:14 PM sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (*cough cough*). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf?

thanx in advance!

They're sterile, but theres a way around that. Get a dagger and stab yourself. Have your druid (not cleric) buddy reincarnate you, reinse and repeat until you have your prefered race (yes you just lost a couple levels). Now go have your child.
EvilVegan
09-29-07, 10:38 AM Polymorph might be a better option. . .
Malchius
09-29-07, 06:02 PM You may want to make the child a Spellscale, they're draconic lineage and are great spellcasters. They also look elvish, so that part fits.

They're a bit further in Races of Dragon btw.
The_Shaman
09-29-07, 07:14 PM Or draconic. It's a LA +1, but having a cocktail of magic, divine connection, and dracon in your blood does that to a kid.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sonofdrizzt 08-23-07, 11:07 PM	What do you get when a Dragonborn of Bahamut mates with a non-dragonborn? like an elf or something?
Paulon 08-23-07, 11:28 PM	Nothing. They're infertile.
CelticMutt 08-23-07, 11:37 PM	Nothing. They're infertile. And have absolutely no sex drive.
Rohano 08-24-07, 02:22 AM	Nothing. They're infertile. And have absolutely no sex drive. And probably don't have any reproductive organs. If it is possible for dragonborn to mate, I'd imagine that they are infertile. And if they're not infertile, they probably don't have a libido to speak of, since they are a physical embodiment of something celestial. Sorta like most celestial creatures. No need for reproduction if it's your big boss in the sky who manufactures your brothers and sisters. But if dragonborn could reproduce, I'm leaning toward the offspring being some sort of draconian (see: Dragonlance). If dragonborn could reproduce to make more dragonborn, Bahamut would have to be saintly not to take advantage of that and start a bunch of paladin farms - rolling out eggs on conveyor belts.
asurademon 08-24-07, 04:23 AM	And probably don't have any reproductive organs. If it is possible for dragonborn to mate, I'd imagine that they are infertile. And if they're not infertile, they probably don't have a libido to speak of, since they are a physical embodiment of something celestial. Sorta like most celestial creatures. No need for reproduction if it's your big boss in the sky who manufactures your brothers and sisters. But if dragonborn could reproduce, I'm leaning toward the offspring being some sort of draconian (see: Dragonlance). If dragonborn could reproduce to make more dragonborn, Bahamut would have to be saintly not to take advantage of that and start a bunch of paladin farms - rolling out eggs on conveyor belts. except in D&D celestial creatures can reproduce, so that analogy doesn't really work in this case (though it would for your own home brew game if that's what you want). Dragonborn are still flesh and blood beings, and mortal right? I don't own the book but did overlook their entry in it at some point. And just about anything in D&D can sire children with just about anything else it seems like anyhow. So I wouldn't expect dragonborn to be an exception. Or does it actually state somewhere else they don't reproduce? Anyhow going by what little I know about dragonborn, I'd probably have the children of dragonborn either be A: the race of the none-dragonborn parent with some subtle hints of dragonborn ancestry B. Dragonborn can only have children with the race they originally came from, and those children are just normal children of that race. or C. As B except the children also have some subtle hint of dragonborn ancestry If both parents are dragonborn, things could get interesting, I guess the result should be whatever the result would normally be if the two weren't dragonborn, maybe give the child some hint of dragonborn ancestry too. You could just treat their reproduction as functioning the same as it would if they weren't dragonborn in general I guess, with hints of dragonborn ancestry being a possibility.
sonofdrizzt 08-24-07, 04:54 PM	sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (cough cough). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf? thanx in advance!
Johnny_Angel 08-24-07, 08:12 PM	Well, Dragonborn are treated as still being a member of their former race, so I suppose if they mated that nothing special would happen. Dragonborn Elf + Elf = normal Elf Dragonborn Elf + Dragonborn Human = normal half-elf There might be a slight possibility that the offspring would have the celestial template. That's my take on it.
asurademon 08-25-07, 12:00 AM	sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (cough cough). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf? thanx in advance! I would just have the result be a half-elf (thus the same as what the result would be if the Dragonborn was just a normal human). If you want to give them something to show that they have dragonborn heritage, give them something which is purely cosmetic, perhaps clawlike fingernails, or a skin tone that's got a slightly purplish tone to it (going by the pictures of them I've seen, dragonborn have purple scales). I know those things aren't going to make it immediately obvious to the average person that the half-elf has some dragonborn blood in their veins (I don't think the average person in most D&D campaigns will even know what dragonborn are anyways) but it will show that they aren't your ordinary half-elf.
Tedronai 08-25-07, 02:48 AM	Dragonborn are still members of their original race, so any offspring would turn out as they would have were the parent not a dragonborn, though, as mentioned, some slight heritage might show (if anything other than a purely cosmetic change, I'd suggest the 1st level of the draconic/half-dragon racial progression, but never gaining levels in that progression after the first, meaning no level adjustment)
Kurama Youko 08-25-07, 10:23 AM	im pretty sure its says specifically in their break down that Dragonborns of Bahamut do not experience love/lust in the way of their former race, they wish only to serve Bahamut and furthere his cause. They do not get horny, they do not put out and they do not worry about the who keeps the baby? Because there is no baby to speak of.
sonofdrizzt 08-25-07, 10:55 AM	im pretty sure its says specifically in their break down that Dragonborns of Bahamut do not experience love/lust in the way of their former race, they wish only to serve Bahamut and furthere his cause. They do not get horny, they do not put out and they do not worry about the who keeps the baby? Because there is no baby to speak of. yes, but this is MY campaign. In it, if you read above, Bahamut cares not wether his children are as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. They are more sleeper agents than anything else, acting out his orders whenever he needs them.
Neutronium_Dragon 08-25-07, 11:07 AM	It does, however, explicitly state that dragonborn are sterile, even if they (for some reason) do end up mating with someone. It's part of the price they pay for becoming a dragonborn, and also because Bahamut only wants someone to become a dragonborn by willing choice, not by accident of birth. That would go for "I have dragonborn ancestry" too, and has nothing to do with their level of piety. Even if he's simply interested in having sleeper agents - well, telling someone that they're now a sleeper agent for your cause because mommy and daddy did something they shouldn't have isn't likely to produce a particularly helpful sleeper agent.
sonofdrizzt 08-25-07, 11:14 AM	It does, however, explicitly state that dragonborn are sterile, even if they (for some reason) do end up mating with someone. It's part of the price they pay for becoming a dragonborn, and also because Bahamut only wants someone to become a dragonborn by willing choice, not by accident of birth. That would go for "I have dragonborn ancestry" too, and has nothing to do with their level of piety. Even if he's simply interested in having sleeper agents - well, telling someone that they're now a sleeper agent for your cause because mommy and daddy did something they shouldn't have isn't likely to produce a particularly helpful sleeper agent. But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the entire set up before galavanting a response! And im figuring to just go with the cosmetic adjustment, with a +1 to natural AC. And i dont care about the LA, cause the offspring are going to be NPCs (if they choose to have more than one)
EvilVegan 08-25-07, 11:22 AM	They'd obviously be mongrelmen.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 08-25-07, 04:25 PM	They'd obviously be mongrelmen. I second this motion. Also, pics or it didn't happen.
sonofdrizzt 08-26-07, 03:28 AM	I DON'T! I'm pretty sure my PC wouldn't want a mongrelfolk as a child. I mean, no offense to them, mongrelfolk have their place and its a good one. But im not givin my Pc and his wife a frikin mongrelfolk as a son/daughter!
EvilVegan 08-26-07, 09:51 AM	Oh come on. Please? You could make it live in a tower and talk to gargoyles. It'll be cute! That being said, if you want to make it special have it be a platinum dragon or half-dragon, an omen of a great holy war to come. It'll be hard for the elf to lay an egg, but hopefully they're leathery like crocodile/turtle eggs. Options: Mongrelman Dragonwraught Kobold Half-dragon [platinum] Half-celestial (with draconic features) Aasimar (with elven/draconic features) Half-elf True Dragon Gelatinous Cube
Kesthol 08-26-07, 10:22 AM	Oh come on. Please? You could make it live in a tower and talk to gargoyles. It'll be cute! That being said, if you want to make it special have it be a platinum dragon or half-dragon, an omen of a great holy war to come. It'll be hard for the elf to lay an egg, but hopefully they're leathery like crocodile/turtle eggs. Options: Mongrelman Dragonwraught Kobold Half-dragon [platinum] Half-celestial (with draconic features) Aasimar (with elven/draconic features) Half-elf True Dragon Gelatinous Cube You forgot the obvious: Draconic Aasimar (treating Aasimar as a +1 LA template) Elf (or other base race). For the price of +2 LA, you get STR+2, CON+2, WIS+2, CHA+4, a host of useful features, and up to 2 different sorcerous bloodlines. But yeah, page 13 of Races of the Dragon, the section titled Love, makes it pretty clear that they cannot reproduce (and although they retain their reproductive organs, they have absolutely no desire to use them in any capacity).
Kurama Youko 08-26-07, 11:11 AM	A half elf who's insanely mad that Bahamut doesn't just reward people's off spring with super powers greater than any of his actual followers. :eek: Seriously, Maybe its a Half Fiend Elf with a penchant for wanting to be a Dread Necromancer/Ninja. You know because Tiamat and Bahamut are actually Brother and Sister (who were supposed to marry one another), siblings of Io. Surely since they share the same father anything resulting from eithers bloodline more than likely could produce any random alignment restricted template. So since a Dragonborn is the child of Bahamut anything it has surely has the chance of being Evil as well as Good. Yes, im sure Tiamat will be happy with her grand nephew of Fiendlishly evil undead ninjitsu loving. I hope that elf princess is into pain man, cause that 15 pound egg of love shes gonna be clammering to squeeze out is gonna be a pain butt. Literally. :) Better still maybe its not the Dragonborns baby at all, maybe after that one night of pleasure its actually true that Dragonborns can't produce children, and Tiamat just had one of her half fiend dragon sons polymorph into a Human and sex the elf princess up with a disguise that looked like the Dragonborn the next day. Making the child a actual Half Fiend Half Dragon Elf? Wow trying playing this ungodly LA+7 race in the near future. He'd curbstomp his fake father and eat his mom.
EvilVegan 08-26-07, 11:52 AM	Uh. Gross?
sonofdrizzt 08-26-07, 10:30 PM	Guys, what the hell. Lets keep this litteral please! Mods, alittle help please? Im tryin to get some actual feedback, and the wedding is coming up in a couple sesions!
Saedar 08-26-07, 10:53 PM	Look. You've houseruled that what it says about sterility is nul and void and that they aren't so much holy exemplars as they are devout worshipers with a twist. If you want to have them be about to reproduce, I would say even the +1 NA would be a lil much. But, do what you will. I think it sounds like a nifty idea and would be interested to know how it plays out. Maybe have them be terrorized by the other elves or somesuch. But insofar as how their heritage manifests, keep it simple and lacking no mechanical significance. Keep us updated! This sounds cool.
Neutronium_Dragon 08-26-07, 11:12 PM	> But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the > entire set up before galavanting a response! I did. And my basic point remains: Your houserule is contradicting itself. You want secret sleeper agents who aren't dedicated - those don't go together.
sonofdrizzt 08-27-07, 12:34 AM	> But if you frickin READ up above, it no longer is in my campaign! GOD! read the > entire set up before galavanting a response! I did. And my basic point remains: Your houserule is contradicting itself. You want secret sleeper agents who aren't dedicated - those don't go together. i never said they werent dedicated, i said they werent as pious as normal. And I will keep you posted on the events to come. AND YOUR ALL INVITED TO THE WEDDING!!! hahahahaha, nah, stay away from my weddin you creeps.
EvilVegan 08-27-07, 08:30 AM	I just want to mention that my suggestion was 100% serious. But I gave real suggestions as well. It really depends on how important this kid is going to be to future games. A dragon being born to an elf is strange but it isn't impossible in D&D. Personally, I'd make the child a perfectly formed half-elf with no draconic features, but draconic senses and abilities. He'd be a masterful sorcerer, have the dragon type, and age like a dragon.
sonofdrizzt 08-27-07, 03:21 PM	Too powerful. The kid is gonna open HUGE hooks for me (heheheheheheh), but i dont want the thing to be more or less than what it's parents are. On the note of class, since it IS an NPC, I will most likely make it a sorcerer-(insert martial class here) combo. Evemeire (The PC in question) is a Fighter/Cavalier who rides a Hippogriph, and works with the world's main empires army. Now, I think I already now what you are gonna say, but what should the second class be?
Fenris_Lathiin 08-27-07, 03:47 PM	According to Races of the Dragon, Bahamut makes his Dragonborn sterile because he doesn't wish to force anyone to be a Dragonborn. He thinks that becoming a Dragonborn should always be a choice. Since Bahamut intentionally makes his Dragonborn sterile for this reason, I would imagine that IF a Dragonborn was not sterile, the child would in fact be a Dragonborn himself.
EvilVegan 08-27-07, 03:51 PM	You at least need to allow him to take the dragon-blooded feats/substitution levels from Races of the Dragon or maybe grant him access to a few clerical domains for his sorcerer spells (like dragons have). :D As for class I wouldn't send him into dragon disciple. I'd send him into some of the more powerful classes. I'd allow him to use the (kobold) Rite of Ascension and Greater Ascension to get a +1 to his effective sorcerer level (for a feat and some gold). After that I'd take him into full caster PrCs. But personally I'd make him a duskblade, a sorcerer, or a crusader, but I wouldn't try to gish him out too much.
EvilVegan 08-27-07, 03:54 PM	We already covered the sterility (maybe you should edit the initial post to show that). But I think if anything your logic shows that the child shouldn't be a dragonborn. If bahamut doesn't want people to be denied the choice to be a dragonborn, he could simply not change the genetic code of the reproductive organs when converting people into dragonborn. IE their children are normal. This assuming he allows them to breed at all, which according to RAW he admittedly doesn't.
Fenris_Lathiin 08-28-07, 12:48 AM	That's a point I hadn't considered. I was just thinking that, if the children of Dragonborn were not Dragonborn themselves, why make the Dragonborn sterile in the first place?
EvilVegan 08-28-07, 10:11 AM	That's a point I hadn't considered. I was just thinking that, if the children of Dragonborn were not Dragonborn themselves, why make the Dragonborn sterile in the first place? I can think of 2 reasons. 1) removed sex drive makes focusing on doing good easier 2) sterility prevents pregnancy which could lead to parenthood, which would distract from the active pursuit of the greater good. And then the bonus: 3) sterility prevents pregnancy which leads to more carefree "adventures" if you know what I mean. But then there's the removed sex drive. I'd just look at it like a vow of chastity.
AtsuiShoto 08-28-07, 12:04 PM	The way Races of the Dragon says it: As a dragonborn of Bahamut, you've "married" Bahamut in every way but the literal physical sense. Even physically, your new form is a representation of the marriage of your old self and the divine attributes of Bahamut. Now, sonofdrizzt, if you've decided you want the Dragonborn in your campaign to be looser, less dedicated, less focused servants of Bahamut (heck, your dragonborn character is even serving under the direct orders of an entire mortal chain of command!), then what is Bahamut's motivation for affecting this huge physical change in people such as your character? For that matter, what is their motivation for undergoing this change? Do they even get a say in it? I think the fundamental underpinnings of the Rite of Rebirth in your campaign has ALOT to do with the answer to your original question. Without knowing the details, I doubt anyone can help you adequately answer that question, since the only other details we have available are the ones in Races of the Dragon. Acording to those, there won't be any offspring of the Dragonborn of Bahamut. Ever.
sonofdrizzt 09-01-07, 12:15 AM	Well, like I said, They are sleeper agents. They are used in times of great peril, and are also used by the high clerics of Bahamut to do the jobs that need to be done. They take on ALL the jobs they do in normal campaigns too, but only few go the full extent of celibacy. They are allowed to have their lives, but are vowed to do Bahamut's whims. All in all, the Dragonborn are just as diverse as the races that make them. By the way everyone, They have already been married, and have had their kid. It will be a normal Half-Elf with a +1 ac, two 1d3 claws, and a minor cosmetic adjustment (i.e.: Purple skin highlights, ridged ears and eyebrows, and draconic eyes. I'll keep you posted about its growth and development.
pigknight 09-28-07, 11:14 PM	sweet, yeah! In my campaign, Bahamut doesnt care if they mate and the Dragonborn themselves aren't as pious as it says in Races of the Dragon. So i just need the statistics. See, my Dragonborn player has gained the love of an elf princess (cough cough). They wanna have kids, as you'd prolly guess since i asked the question in the first place. So I'm gonna go with the choice of the sleight heritage. BUT. What would that be for a Dragonborn Human with the energy breath choice coupled with your average Elf? thanx in advance! They're sterile, but theres a way around that. Get a dagger and stab yourself. Have your druid (not cleric) buddy reincarnate you, reinse and repeat until you have your prefered race (yes you just lost a couple levels). Now go have your child.
EvilVegan 09-29-07, 10:38 AM	Polymorph might be a better option. . .
Malchius 09-29-07, 06:02 PM	You may want to make the child a Spellscale, they're draconic lineage and are great spellcasters. They also look elvish, so that part fits. They're a bit further in Races of Dragon btw.
The_Shaman 09-29-07, 07:14 PM	Or draconic. It's a LA +1, but having a cocktail of magic, divine connection, and dracon in your blood does that to a kid.