Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tridiak 04-07-08, 02:47 AM	Something to frustrate obnoxiously powerful characters. The Infinites Special template applied to most creature types. The following assumes the Infinite has been around for thousands of years. 100s of years. (Class 1) 10,000s of years. (Class 3) Size As is Type Gain Infinite subtype Hit Dice No change Initiative -- Speed -- Armour Class -- BAB/Grapple as is Attack infinite's touch, inifinite's offense Full Attack see below Damage see below Space/Reach as is SA infinite's touch, inifinite's offense SQ unkillable, immune to death and soul influencing effects, Energy Resistance 15(all), infinite's defense, infinite's regeneraton 1, fast healing 1 Saves +10 all will saves. Abilities Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +8 Wis +8 Cha +8 Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +4 Wis +4 Cha +4 Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +16 Wis +16 Cha +16 Skills most (a few) (95%) Knowledge, Craft and Profession skills have 1-4 ranks each. These do not count towards skill point allocation. See below Feats Jack of All Trades (B) (10% per century of wandering) Environment as is Organisation always alone (see below) CR ???? Treasure as is Alignment varies. 75% are LN, N or CN (any alignment) (85% are neutral) Advancement as race Level] Adjustment[/B ???? [B]Unkillable(Ex) Infinites cannot be killed except through a single weakness which not all of them are aware of. They are immune to any instant death effects. Disintegration will result in them regenerating from the dust over time (varies from minutes to days). They are even immune to SDAs which copies any of the above effects. Total, unavoidable annihilation effects such of Sphere of Annihilation will result in the cause being destroyed (though they suffer some nasty side effect). It is important to note they are not immune to anything that could theorectically cause death, such as poison or disease, just death itself. They can still be "killed" in normal combat. They simple recover after a certain amount of time, depending on the attack form. Starvation & Thirst : they are not immune to these effects, it simply cripples them until they are given food & water. Breathing : they do not need to breathe. But, they are still affected by gases and similar. Energy Resistance(Ex) Does not stack. Does not apply to weakness if applicable. Plane Shift(Sp) 1/year. Heighten to 9th level. (Nothing special besides the higher level). They are allowed to randomly plane shift to somewhere they have never been. Skills This assumes infinites that have be around for thousands of years. Most Knowledge, Profession & Craft skills have d4 ranks each. These are independent of normal skill point allocation. This is used to reflect their vast experience and travels. They also know a lot of languages. Abilities Their high mental scores assumes they have been wandering around for thousands of years. They are not immune to ability damage or drain. Constitution, if damaged or drained, will regenerate back up to it's original value. They regain damaged Con as per standard rules. Drained Con regenerates at the rate of one per month. If their Con reaches zero, they go into a coma until their Con reaches 1. If they are disintegrated or massively damaged, their bodies must regenerate first. Wisdom and Charisma can never drop below 1 for any reason. Fast Healing(Ex) and Infinite's Regeneration(Su) If the infinite has better FH, use that instead. If the infinite has other regeneration, it is overridden and suppressed. Infinite's regeneration is what gives them their "immunity" to physical destruction. It will only activate if they are "dead", disintegrated, etc and FH cannot "deal" with it. AMF will not suppress the regeneration, it will only slow it down. Energy Level Drain There are immune permanent drain. Temporary drain (negative levels) works as per normal except their HD cannot drop below their base racial HD. Infinite's Touch Usable at will. Usually not very powerful (spell level equivalent 4th or lower). Each Infinite has one effect. The effect is always Supernatural and the CL is 17 or the Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Save DC is 20+Con or Cha modifier (physical or mental effect). Infinite's Offense A ranged, spell-like ability. It is always from the following schools: Evocation, Transmutation or Necromantic. It is always a ranged attack. Caster level is always 20 or Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Uses per day depends on the effect and spell level. As a guideline, 0th and 1st are usually At Will, and 8th & 9th are usually 1-3/day. DC is 15+spell level+Cha modifier. Infinite's Defense A defensive orientated spell-like ability. It is always from one of the following schools: Abjuration, Conjuration or Illusion. The spell must be defensive orientated or used only for defense. Caster level is always 20 or Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Uses per day depends on the effect and spell level. As a guideline, 0th and 1st are usually At Will; and 8th & 9th are usually 1-3/day. DC is 15+spell level+Cha modifier. The above 3 powers have a +10 bonus to penetrate SR. Bad Stuff Being an infinite has it's drawbacks. • they can never receive any healing magic. It simply fails. Even from a deity. • loneliness : Infinites can have friends. But they can never create an organisation or stay with anyone for any length of time. If they try, their/an organisation will "break apart" and friends will "drift away". It is a very subtle and powerful supernatural curse that causes it. A real friend may feel intimidated or small when around the Infinite. People in an organisation may feel jealously or fear. It varies with each Infinite. But it always happens. Divine beings are less susceptible to it. • Weakness : each Infinite has a different weakness. It may be subtle, rare or common. It depends on their power level. It can be conceptual (LG sources), class-based (anyone with Arcane Devotee prestige class), race, type, material. Anything. The Bane negates their unkillable ability, regeneration and fast healing. If their race or type has either, it is also negated. Their Offensive, Defensive and Touch effect's are suppressed and cannot be used to affect the Bane. Any other racial and class abilities are unaffected. • Enchantments : no magical effect can be permanised on them. Even if the source is divine. Any attempt will result in the effect disappearing in 24hrs. No magical effect, spell or similar can last more than one hour per spell level (most are shorter than this). This does not apply to magic items in most cases. If the item generates an effect upon the Infinite (such as a Potion or Scroll), then it is limited. Infinites have the option of "forgetting" their weakness so the do not know what it is. The reason for this option is, although they are very powerful, they are not immune to mind-affecting magic, and most of them are aware of this. Forgetting the weakness prevents others finding out easily what it is. The "forgetting" is irreversible. Once done, that's it. Though they can learn it by other ways, such as reading it in a old scroll or some deity tells them. ... • Teleporation : Infinites cannot teleport themselves by any means. They can be teleported by others, but cannot initiate the effect. Other Infinites are born, NEVER created. When they reach a certain physical age, they become a "full-strength" Infinite. Until they reach that age, they can still be killed (though it becomes harder) and their powers are limited, weakened or suppressed (DM decides). Infinites are exceedingly rare. You may get one in a prime material plane per millennia. (DC 40 to be aware that they exist. DC 50 to know of one). Infinites are always Prime Material beings. Never outsiders or deities. Deities & Powerful Entities Deities (& other powerful entities) generally take an interest in Infinites due to what they are and their rarity. The fact even deities cannot easily kill them makes them very valuable tools (if persuaded). Older Infinites are generally aware of deity self interest and avoid them. Type Details And Frequency Aberration : virtually non-existant. Angel : NO Animal : unusual but possible. Their Int score never goes up. Their size is usually one step larger (with accompanying Str & Con increase). Construct : NO Dragon : once they become a "full-strength" Infinite, they cannot gain any age levels. This of course prevent them gaining more dragon abilities. Elemental : NO Fey : yes Giant : yes. Humanoid : yes Magical Beast : Rarer but yes. Monstrous Humanoid : yes Ooze : NO Outsider : NO Plant: only if intelligent. Rare. Undead : NO. Infinites cannot become undead as they can't die. Vermin : unusual but yes. See animal. Subtype Details Air: only if born in prime material Aquatic: as parent type Archon: NO Augmented: as parent type Chaotic: as parent type Cold: as parent type Earth: see air Evil:as parent type Extraplanar: as parent type Fire: see air Goblinoid: as parent type Good: as parent type Incorporeal: as long as parent type isn't undead, yes (rare though as most incorporeal types are never "born") Lawful: as parent type Native: as parent type Reptilian: as parent type Shapechanger: as parent type Swarm: NO. Infinite template only applies to a SINGLE living being or thing. Water: see air
M-bark 04-07-08, 07:01 AM	For starters, Angel is a subtype, not a type. Second, while I like the idea behind it, it needs great (re)work. Abilities Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +8 Wis +8 Cha +8 Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +4 Wis +4 Cha +4 Str -- Dex -- Con +4 Int +16 Wis +16 Cha +16 Does this mean Str and Dex are not increased, or that they do not have them at all? Unkillable(Ex) Infinites cannot be killed except through a single weakness which not all of them are aware of. They are immune to any instant death effects. Disintegration will result in them regenerating from the dust over time (varies from minutes to days). This already is a very powerful ability. And how long does the regeneration from dust exactly take? Is there a hidden invisible table that relates the regeneration speed to the Infinite's age that I missed? They are even immune to SDAs which copies any of the above effects. Total, unavoidable annihilation effects such of Sphere of Annihilation will result in the cause being destroyed (though they suffer some nasty side effect). So they'd would destroy a SoA instead of themselves getting destroyed? Wow. So now even the total destruction of existence itself does not even stop them from dying. Which is quite paradoxal. It is important to note they are not immune to anything that could theorectically cause death, such as poison or disease, just death itself. They can still be "killed" in normal combat. They simple recover after a certain amount of time, depending on the attack form. As a normal person does, or what? Faster, slower? Starvation & Thirst : they are not immune to these effects, it simply cripples them until they are given food & water. So as a normal person, I assume? Breathing : they do not need to breathe. But, they are still affected by gases and similar. That's fine, I guess. Air genasi and some creature types do not need to breathe either. Energy Resistance(Ex) Does not stack. Does not apply to weakness if applicable. You say that they have ER 15 (All). There are a lot of Energy types out there, you know, most of which are hardly any resistances against. Besides Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity and Sonic (which one can be(come) resistant against) there are also Force, and Positive and Negative Energy. Plane Shift(Sp) 1/year. Heighten to 9th level. (Nothing special besides the higher level). They are allowed to randomly plane shift to somewhere they have never been. Why 1/year? Why not 1/lifetime or 1/week or 1/dinner? Skills This assumes infinites that have be around for thousands of years. Most Knowledge, Profession & Craft skills have d4 ranks each. These are independent of normal skill point allocation. This is used to reflect their vast experience and travels. They also know a lot of languages. Um, yeah. If this is supposed to be a template, then they should get a bonus to skills (if creature type does not change) or a change in racial class skills and number of skill points (if creature type does change). And there are a lot of knowledge, profession and craft skills, as well as a lot of languages. What if they don't have enough skill points? A 1HD creature with 32 Int (one of the highest Int scores) and 8+Int skill points per level gets 76 skill points. If it does have Speak Language as a class skill, it will need to spend 19 skill points to learn the languages listen in the PHB under the Speak Language skill. Then they'd have 57 skill points left. If they would put maximum ranks in all knowledge skills that are listed under the knowledge skill in the PHB, and it would have all those as a class skill, they would have 17 skill points left afterwards, so they could get maximum ranks in 4 craft or profession skills. That's, for instance, Craft(alchemy), Craft(bowyer), Craft(armorsmithing) and Craft(weaponsmithing). And then we haven't even mentioned the hundreds of other profession and craft skills possible. Sure, they'd have maximum ranks in quite a few knowledge skills and some craft skills and they'd know a lot of languages, but they would need 8+Int skill points (only available to the Outsider type to my knowledge) and 32 Int (which Great Wyrm Gold Dragons have). If you'd apply this to your average humanoid with his highest score in Int (say, 15 from the Elite array), you would have someone who starts with (2+2)*4 skill points. That is 16. You wouldn't even be able to learn all languages before hitting level 2. Even though you "assume they have been around for thousands of years", they might still just be level 1. Remember, older people do not necessarily have more class levels. Else every old guy you would run into would be more suited to kill off those dragons and turn those nasty undead. Abilities Their high mental scores assumes they have been wandering around for thousands of years. They are not immune to ability damage or drain. Constitution, if damaged or drained, will regenerate back up to it's original value. They regain damaged Con as per standard rules. Drained Con regenerates at the rate of one per month. If their Con reaches zero, they go into a coma until their Con reaches 1. If they are disintegrated or massively damaged, their bodies must regenerate first. Wisdom and Charisma can never drop below 1 for any reason. So now ability drain is useless on them. Remember why drain cannot be healed? Because the original value is affected. So as you put it, that part of the ability is useless. Fast Healing(Ex) and Infinite's Regeneration(Su) If the infinite has better FH, use that instead. If the infinite has other regeneration, it is overridden and suppressed. Infinite's regeneration is what gives them their "immunity" to physical destruction. It will only activate if they are "dead", disintegrated, etc and FH cannot "deal" with it. AMF will not suppress the regeneration, it will only slow it down. Alright, the first lines are worded okay. However, I'd like to ask: how much does AMF suppress the regeneration? Energy Level Drain There are immune permanent drain. Temporary drain (negative levels) works as per normal except their HD cannot drop below their base racial HD. Huh? Why can't their "HD drop below their base racial HD"? Infinite's Touch Usable at will. Usually not very powerful (spell level equivalent 4th or lower). Each Infinite has one effect. The effect is always Supernatural and the CL is 17 or the Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Save DC is 20+Con or Cha modifier (physical or mental effect). ...? What? What exactly is this? You say it's "usable at will", "usually not very powerful", "has one effect" and "is always supernatural". But what exactly is it? Or what can it be? Infinite's Offense A ranged, spell-like ability. It is always from the following schools: Evocation, Transmutation or Necromantic. It is always a ranged attack. Caster level is always 20 or Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Uses per day depends on the effect and spell level. As a guideline, 0th and 1st are usually At Will, and 8th & 9th are usually 1-3/day. DC is 15+spell level+Cha modifier. Alright, I get that it's a ranged SLA from Evoc., Trans. or Necro. My question is: must the original spell be ranged, or does the range change from whatever it was to range [insert range here]? And if it's the latter, what does the range become? Also, an 8th or 9th level spell 3/day is overpowered, and you don't mention 2-7 level at all. Please do that. Infinite's Defense A defensive orientated spell-like ability. It is always from one of the following schools: Abjuration, Conjuration or Illusion. The spell must be defensive orientated or used only for defense. Caster level is always 20 or Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Uses per day depends on the effect and spell level. As a guideline, 0th and 1st are usually At Will; and 8th & 9th are usually 1-3/day. DC is 15+spell level+Cha modifier. The above 3 powers have a +10 bonus to penetrate SR. Abjuration is always defensive orientated, but when is conjuration or illusion that? Bad Stuff Being an infinite has it's drawbacks. • they can never receive any healing magic. It simply fails. Even from a deity. • loneliness : Infinites can have friends. But they can never create an organisation or stay with anyone for any length of time. If they try, their/an organisation will "break apart" and friends will "drift away". It is a very subtle and powerful supernatural curse that causes it. A real friend may feel intimidated or small when around the Infinite. People in an organisation may feel jealously or fear. It varies with each Infinite. But it always happens. Divine beings are less susceptible to it. • Weakness : each Infinite has a different weakness. It may be subtle, rare or common. It depends on their power level. It can be conceptual (LG sources), class-based (anyone with Arcane Devotee prestige class), race, type, material. Anything. The Bane negates their unkillable ability, regeneration and fast healing. If their race or type has either, it is also negated. Their Offensive, Defensive and Touch effect's are suppressed and cannot be used to affect the Bane. Any other racial and class abilities are unaffected. • Enchantments : no magical effect can be permanised on them. Even if the source is divine. Any attempt will result in the effect disappearing in 24hrs. No magical effect, spell or similar can last more than one hour per spell level (most are shorter than this). This does not apply to magic items in most cases. If the item generates an effect upon the Infinite (such as a Potion or Scroll), then it is limited. So an Infinite can never adventure with others (at least not any "friends"), and not even deities can heal them. And they have a weakness but you don't know what it is, apparantly, because its not mentioned what it is exactly. Oookaaayyy. Infinites have the option of "forgetting" their weakness so the do not know what it is. The reason for this option is, although they are very powerful, they are not immune to mind-affecting magic, and most of them are aware of this. Forgetting the weakness prevents others finding out easily what it is. The "forgetting" is irreversible. Once done, that's it. Though they can learn it by other ways, such as reading it in a old scroll or some deity tells them. Weird, but okay, I suppose. • Teleporation : Infinites cannot teleport themselves by any means. They can be teleported by others, but cannot initiate the effect. Sure, I guess. Other Infinites are born, NEVER created. When they reach a certain physical age, they become a "full-strength" Infinite. Until they reach that age, they can still be killed (though it becomes harder) and their powers are limited, weakened or suppressed (DM decides). When do they reach that age? And while you say that the DM decides how much their powers are limited until then, what is about the average? Infinites are exceedingly rare. You may get one in a prime material plane per millennia. (DC 40 to be aware that they exist. DC 50 to know of one). Infinites are always Prime Material beings. Never outsiders or deities. ...and yet it can apparantly be applied to outsiders, as mentioned in the beginning and end. Deities & Powerful Entities Deities (& other powerful entities) generally take an interest in Infinites due to what they are and their rarity. The fact even deities cannot easily kill them makes them very valuable tools (if persuaded). Older Infinites are generally aware of deity self interest and avoid them Well duh, the Infinites seem to be near as powerful as any deity! The fact that they cannot be killed, even by whatever god himself, seems to me like that would make deities want to put them in some place where they can't get out, rather than making them their buddies who might backstab them someday.
tridiak 04-08-08, 04:43 AM	For starters, Angel is a subtype, not a type. Oops Second, while I like the idea behind it, it needs great (re)work. Does this mean Str and Dex are not increased, or that they do not have them at all? Str and Dex are not modified This already is a very powerful ability. And how long does the regeneration from dust exactly take? Is there a hidden invisible table that relates the regeneration speed to the Infinite's age that I missed? DMs decision. Whatever suits the story/campaign. So they'd would destroy a SoA instead of themselves getting destroyed? Wow. So now even the total destruction of existence itself does not even stop them from dying. Which is quite paradoxal. The point I am making is they cannot be killed by ANY MEANS except for a SINGLE means. I never envisaged the "termination of all existence" as a campaign end. It is important to note they are not immune to anything that could theorectically cause death, such as poison or disease, just death itself. They can still be "killed" in normal combat. They simple recover after a certain amount of time, depending on the attack form. As a normal person does, or what? Faster, slower? Up to DM. I deliberately left "death recovery" up to the DM. I should have put that fact in. (Doh). Put regen 1 after death for a heart stab would be a minute. Which is probably to fast. Starvation & Thirst : they are not immune to these effects, it simply cripples them until they are given food & water. So as a normal person, I assume? As for their race That's fine, I guess. Air genasi and some creature types do not need to breathe either. I'll remove that Energy Resistance(Ex) Does not stack. Does not apply to weakness if applicable. You say that they have ER 15 (All). There are a lot of Energy types out there, you know, most of which are hardly any resistances against. Besides Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity and Sonic (which one can be(come) resistant against) there are also Force, and Positive and Negative Energy. I assumed most people would figure Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity and Sonic. My mistake Plane Shift(Sp) 1/year. Heighten to 9th level. (Nothing special besides the higher level). They are allowed to randomly plane shift to somewhere they have never been. Why 1/year? Why not 1/lifetime or 1/week or 1/dinner? Had to pick some frequency. Any figure I give would be criticised no matter what Skills This assumes infinites that have be around for thousands of years. Most Knowledge, Profession & Craft skills have d4 ranks each. These are independent of normal skill point allocation. This is used to reflect their vast experience and travels. They also know a lot of languages. Um, yeah. If this is supposed to be a template, then they should get a bonus to skills (if creature type does not change) or a change in racial class skills and number of skill points (if creature type does change). And there are a lot of knowledge, profession and craft skills, as well as a lot of languages. What if they don't have enough skill points? A 1HD creature with 32 Int (one of the highest Int scores) and 8+Int skill points per level gets 76 skill points. If it does have Speak Language as a class skill, it will need to spend 19 skill points to learn the languages listen in the PHB under the Speak Language skill. Then they'd have 57 skill points left. If they would put maximum ranks in all knowledge skills that are listed under the knowledge skill in the PHB, and it would have all those as a class skill, they would have 17 skill points left afterwards, so they could get maximum ranks in 4 craft or profession skills. That's, for instance, Craft(alchemy), Craft(bowyer), Craft(armorsmithing) and Craft(weaponsmithing). And then we haven't even mentioned the hundreds of other profession and craft skills possible. Sure, they'd have maximum ranks in quite a few knowledge skills and some craft skills and they'd know a lot of languages, but they would need 8+Int skill points (only available to the Outsider type to my knowledge) and 32 Int (which Great Wyrm Gold Dragons have). If you'd apply this to your average humanoid with his highest score in Int (say, 15 from the Elite array), you would have someone who starts with (2+2)*4 skill points. That is 16. You wouldn't even be able to learn all languages before hitting level 2. Even though you "assume they have been around for thousands of years", they might still just be level 1. Remember, older people do not necessarily have more class levels. Else every old guy you would run into would be more suited to kill off those dragons and turn those nasty undead. I assumed the DM would apply some common sense. No one knows everything. Not even Vecna or that God of Knowledge from FR who's name I forget. These ranks are independent of skill point allocation. You do not use skills points. They are simply gained by 1000s of years of experience and travel. I should have added : within their personality and nature. But you are right, I'd reduce the number of known skills, especially the craft skills. If I spent one year learning a different trade/craft/whatever for 25 years, I would have one rank in each of these skills. My real life "level" would never have enough skill points to cover that. Abilities Their high mental scores assumes they have been wandering around for thousands of years. They are not immune to ability damage or drain. Constitution, if damaged or drained, will regenerate back up to it's original value. They regain damaged Con as per standard rules. Drained Con regenerates at the rate of one per month. If their Con reaches zero, they go into a coma until their Con reaches 1. If they are disintegrated or massively damaged, their bodies must regenerate first. Wisdom and Charisma can never drop below 1 for any reason. So now ability drain is useless on them. Remember why drain cannot be healed? Because the original value is affected. So as you put it, that part of the ability is useless. I usually get energy drain/damage confused. Just covering my bases to ensure they only have a SINGLE means of death. There are not supposed to be ANY exceptions. Alright, the first lines are worded okay. However, I'd like to ask: how much does AMF suppress the regeneration? DM's decision Energy Level Drain There are immune permanent drain. Temporary drain (negative levels) works as per normal except their HD cannot drop below their base racial HD. Huh? Why can't their "HD drop below their base racial HD"? Partly because I think the energy level/negative levels rules are crap. A 20HD giant down to 5HD makes no sense to me. Especially when it usually represents (mostly) their physical build. HD = racial HD + class level. Infinite's Touch Usable at will. Usually not very powerful (spell level equivalent 4th or lower). Each Infinite has one effect. The effect is always Supernatural and the CL is 17 or the Infinite's HD, whichever is higher. Save DC is 20+Con or Cha modifier (physical or mental effect). ...? What? What exactly is this? You say it's "usable at will", "usually not very powerful", "has one effect" and "is always supernatural". But what exactly is it? Or what can it be? I wrote this template up on night when I was feeling creative. Should have been more specific. I envisaged it as any spell from 0 to 3rd which is general purpose, not combat effective or harmful. And cannot unbalance the "state of the world ". Possibilities : light, Mending, Tongues, Comp Languages, Detect Magic, Sanctuary, Unseen Servant, Arcane Sight. These are guides. They may be stunted or require a focus. In short, whatever the DM decides. Should have added : ability only affects self. NO cure/healing spells of any kind whatsoever. Infinite's Offense Alright, I get that it's a ranged SLA from Evoc., Trans. or Necro. My question is: must the original spell be ranged, or does the range change from whatever it was to range [insert range here]? And if it's the latter, what does the range become? Also, an 8th or 9th level spell 3/day is overpowered, and you don't mention 2-7 level at all. Please do that. Whatever seems reasonably balanced. I initially intended any spell that is ranged. But, in the end, up to the DM. As a guideline, 0th and 1st are usually At Will, and 8th & 9th are usually 1-3/day. I did say GUIDELINE Infinite's Defense Abjuration is always defensive orientated, but when is conjuration or illusion that? I intended that any spell from those three schools that does not have a direct offensive effect. Misdirection is an example from Illusion. Wall of Stone is an example from Conjuration. So an Infinite can never adventure with others (at least not any "friends"), and not even deities can heal them. And they have a weakness but you don't know what it is, apparantly, because its not mentioned what it is exactly. Each Infinite has a DIFFERENT weakness. The DM decides what it is. I thought that part was apparent. Oookaaayyy. loneliness : Infinites can have friends. But they can never create an organisation or stay with anyone for any length of time. I intended this to be read as months, years or even decades. Not days. Weird, but okay, I suppose. It's different. That's the whole idea of the Infinite. Teleporation Sure, I guess. Given how powerful they can be, I thought this would limit them somewhat Other Infinites are born, NEVER created. When they reach a certain physical age, they become a "full-strength" Infinite. Until they reach that age, they can still be killed (though it becomes harder) and their powers are limited, weakened or suppressed (DM decides). When do they reach that age? And while you say that the DM decides how much their powers are limited until then, what is about the average? I was thinking of Marvel comic Mutants. Most gain their abilities at puberty (for a race). Some much later or over a long period of time. ...and yet it can apparantly be applied to outsiders, as mentioned in the beginning and end. Where? Well duh, the Infinites seem to be near as powerful as any deity! The fact that they cannot be killed, even by whatever god himself, seems to me like that would make deities want to put them in some place where they can't get out, rather than making them their buddies who might backstab them someday. They are no match for deities. (Unless their race & class makes it so). Infinites are UN-KILLABLE, not UN-DEFEATABLE. Two different things. A lvl 25 Wizard (Inifinite) is no match for any deity. Even with their extra powers. One forecage spell and they are screwed. For all their power, the older ones are well aware of their limitations. They are supposed to be a threat to "mortal" creatures and low level epics. They are not supposed to challenge deities/Asmodeous/Demogoron/Fluffy.
M-bark 04-08-08, 06:31 AM	Well, my only gripes with this now are that you leave a lot of things vague (or "up to the DM", although that is pretty much anything), and that it looks to be set up as being made for PCs at some points, while it doesn't at other points. I hope it's not meant for PC use because while the idea behind it is great, it is incredibly confusing. Also, Infinites who would take great precautions to prevent them from being exposed to their weakness (which they all would probably, if they knew it) would essentially live forever, so a campaign could end up with nearly everyone in the world being an Infinite. Thanks at least for clarifying a lot of things. Success with the rest.
narack 04-08-08, 07:54 AM	Good idea, But i wouldn't use it, it's hard to put in play because of the high LA, should be from +5 to +10 depend.
tridiak 04-08-08, 10:45 PM	Good idea, But i wouldn't use it, it's hard to put in play because of the high LA, should be from +5 to +10 depend. Even though I made it, I would never allow a PC to play one. It would end in frustration for PC and DM. I'd an Infinite as part of a story/plot or as an Aloof Manipulator who is doing things to ensure "balance" or "revenge".