Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleolus 07-05-07, 03:52 PM	OK, this is a race I came up with for a friend of mine, I've got all the stats for it and everything, but I don't have enough experience DMing to figure a suitable level adjustment for it. Any suggestions? Bengalii --Str +2, Dex +2 --Medium Outsider (Native) --Base Movement: 40ft. --Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision --+4 racial bonus on listen and spot checks --A natural armor bonus to AC of +2 --Scent (Ex) --Fury (Ex): When a Bengalii enters combat, it must make a Will save (DC=10+character's HD) or fly into a berserk rage (a Bengalii may not voluntarily fail the save). A Bengalii attacks until all opponents or itself are dead. The Bengalii gains +1 to Strength, +1 to Constitution, and takes a -2 to AC; and may not end the rage voluntarily. Otherwise, this ability functions like the Barbarian's Rage class ability. The bonuses given by entering their Fury start off at +1 at their first HD, the for every 3 HD (counting class levels) after that increases by +1 (+2 at 4th, +3 at 7th, and so forth). Their penalty to AC does not change. -- Claws: A Bengalii gains two natural claw attacks doing 1d4 damage. The Bengali can also make an off-hand claw attack with a free hand, whilst fighting with a weapon, as a secondary attack at a -5 penalty. This unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and the Bengalii can choose to have it's unarmed strike deal lethal or nonlethal damage. -- Graceful: +2 racial bonus on all Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks. +1 racial bonus to reflex saves. -- Sprint (Ex): can move at eight times her normal speed for a number of rounds equal to 1+ her Con modifier, then becomes fatigued (-2 Str, -2 Dex, can't run or charge) for the rest of the encounter. Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Any related to a good aligned race, plus certain others that can be learned by a good-aligned race, such as Orcish. Bengalii have little tolerance for evil creatures and rarely, if ever, can tolerate them long enough to learn their language. Favored Class: Fighter OR Barbarian. A multiclass Bengalii ignores the higher of his/her Fighter or Barbarian class levels when determining if he/she takes an XP penalty. If both are at the same level, neither counts. A Bengalii Barbarian looses it's Fury racial feature, and instead gains 1 additional use of their rage class feature each day. Level Adjustment: +2 ((Thanks to The_Cloaked for the new and updated version, I made a couple alterations I thought would make it work better.))
Spikes01k 07-05-07, 04:07 PM	OK, this is a race I came up with for a friend of mine, I've got all the stats for it and everything, but I don't have enough experience DMing to figure a suitable level adjustment for it. Any suggestions? Str and Dex +2, Wis -2 40 ft move Medium Outsiders (Native) +2 racial bonus on spot and listen checks Scent Darkvision And any ONE of the following abilities, chosen at character creation. 1) Claws: Allows the player to choose to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed attacks, and increases unarmed damage by one die (d4 to d6) 2) Graceful: +2 on any acrobatic checks (balance, tumble, and any others the DM deems appropriate) 3) Sprint: Can run as normal, or can move at double their run speed (or at move x8) for a number of rounds equal to their con modifier, then MUST stop and rest. Get rid of the Wis minus, and leave it as a LA1, that is my suggestion. That seems to be about to par with Goliaths, probably a little less.
Aleolus 07-05-07, 04:13 PM	Well, I'm wanting to indicate that, while they have very sharp senses, they are brash and impulsive, tending to act before thinking. The only way I could think of to show that was with a wisdom penalty. Now, if anyone else can think of some other way to do that, or something else to give them to balance out the wisdom penalty, I'm all ears!
Genetic 07-05-07, 04:31 PM	Edit: Totally read this thread wrong.
Aleolus 07-05-07, 08:13 PM	Does no one else have any opinions on this at all, or are you all just shy?
The_Cloaked 07-07-07, 05:04 AM	Before looking at your work and giving my suggestions, I want to say you have an excellent start here and it probably qualifies as an LA+1 as it stands. Looking over the race and the short blurb you posted about your intentions, giving a negative score to wisdom is not the best choice for a race that receives bonuses to linked skills (yes there is precedent). Below, I instead gave them a negative to intelligence to show the difficulty to plan a move or reason through a situation. To strengthen the brash and impulsive behavior for which you are looking, I dipped into the bestial undertones that arise from other abilities. I am quite fond of the ferocity of badgers and wolverines in D&D and thought it might be interesting to do a take on their Rage ability. As I have presented it here, this not only makes them brash in combat; but also provides a mechanical look at the inner turmoil a beastial race might have. I increased the racial bonuses to a +4 to place emphasis on their sharp senses. Coupling this with the Scent ability makes them rather astute at locating nearby objects. While looking over the additional abilities, I cleaned up the text a little and tried to link them to abilities that some animals already have. I made the claws ability a flat d4 (you might want to toy with a d6 to see if you like the idea) and specified it as a primary natural weapon; I left the option to deal nonleathal damage as an interesting bit of flavor in the "pull punches" sort of way. For the sake of keeping it simple, I defined the skills that Grace gives a bonus to and a +1 to reflex saves to give it a boost on par to the last ability in the group. Sprint has the potential to be abused, but is a cool facet to how quickly the race has the potential to react. I hope that with the line about fatigue tagged on it will not see quite as much use; however, it might benefit the ability to be used 1/hour like the cheetah’s sprint in the Monster Manual. To make things more legible and less breakable, I cleaned up the text on selecting additional racial abilities instead of feats. I believe that the below stats most likely represent a slightly weak LA+2 due to technically unbalanced ability scores, an increased speed, a +4 modifier to two skills, scent (which can be rather powerful if used correctly), a lesser rage, and a nice set of possible abilities (all of which can be attained by third level). These are just my thoughts and some spur of the moment things that I came up with; take what you will and hope you found this helpful. --Str +2, Dex +2, Int -2 --Medium Outsider (Native) --Base Movement: 40ft. --Darkvision 60ft. --+4 racial bonus on listen and spot checks --Scent (Ex): --Fury (Ex): When a "?" takes damage in combat, it must make a Will save (DC=10+character's HD) or fly into a berserk rage on its next turn (a "?" may not voluntarily fail the save). A "?" attacks until all opponents or itself are dead. The "?" gains +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, and takes a -2 to AC; and may not end the rage voluntarily. Otherwise, this ability functions like the Barbarian's Rage class ability. --A "?" may choose any ONE of the following abilities at character creation. ---1) Claws: A "?" may choose to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed attacks, and deals 1d4 slashing damage as a primary natural weapon. ---2) Graceful: +2 racial bonus on all Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks. +1 racial bonus to reflex saves. ---3) Sprint (Ex): can move at eight times her normal speed for a number of rounds equal to 1+ her Con modifier, then becomes fatigued (-2 Str, -2 Dex, can't run or charge) for the rest of the encounter. (While a "?" may only choose one ability at creation, anytime they would gain a new character feat they may choose to gain an additional racial ability. A single ability may not be chosen more than once.)
Aleolus 07-07-07, 01:45 PM	Thank you! You're the first person yet to have given a useful answer! If you think you're up to it, there's another post I put in the Monster Manual section, on wondering an approximate CR for a mob I came up with. I also have other ideas for planar creatures. If you're interested, send me a PM and I'll list the abilities for them.
The_Shaman 07-08-07, 09:07 AM	A penalty to wisdom is a bit strange - especially as aasimars have a bonus to it. I think for a LA+1 race a slight bonus to 2 physical skills is okay and does not merit a mental penalty. Why the fury, btw?
Meep326 07-08-07, 09:59 AM	OK, this is a race I came up with for a friend of mine, I've got all the stats for it and everything, but I don't have enough experience DMing to figure a suitable level adjustment for it. Any suggestions? Str and Dex +2, Wis -2 40 ft move Medium Outsiders (Native) +2 racial bonus on spot and listen checks Scent Darkvision And any ONE of the following abilities, chosen at character creation. 1) Claws: Allows the player to choose to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed attacks, and increases unarmed damage by one die (d4 to d6) 2) Graceful: +2 on any acrobatic checks (balance, tumble, and any others the DM deems appropriate) 3) Sprint: Can run as normal, or can move at double their run speed (or at move x8) for a number of rounds equal to their con modifier, then MUST stop and rest. (They only get one at character creation, but, anytime they would gain a new feat they can choose to forgo that feat to acquire one of the other two racial abilities. They can do that a maximum of two times) The claw abilitiy is insane. Imagine one 'o those as a monk with Momentary Altercation (UA), Improved Natural Attack, and levels in Warshaper... Mmm... 8d8 Unarmed Damage at 20th, combine that with some feats outta Oriental Adventures, and Sandstorm has a couple I think.
esteigs 07-08-07, 05:50 PM	as well as superior unamrmed strike from Bo9S
NoldorForce 07-08-07, 08:21 PM	It's LA +1...but it's weak. The only decent stuff there are the ability score bonuses and the Claws ability. The other stuff is just little things that are barely good enough to put it out of the LA +0 spectrum. Give it another ability score bonus or remove the Wisdom penalty at least. That Fury thing you've mentioned is a real liability - it's isn't a Frenzy, but you have just as many problems getting your ally out of it. I'd suggest just relegating that sort of thing to flavor, noting a tendency for such characters to be Barbarians or so forth.
Captain_Kobold 07-09-07, 09:28 AM	Aleolus, if you can, have a look at the Catfolk race. (Races of the Wild, Miniatures handbook I think.) They seem pretty similar to your concept apart from the outsider part. Claws ability: replace with: The Bengali gains two natural claw attacks doing d4 damage. The Bengali can also make an off-hand claw attack with a free hand, whilst fighting with a weapon, as a secondary attack at a -5 penalty. (A normal unarmed strike for a medium creature is d3 damage and provokes attacks of opportunity.)
Empirate 07-09-07, 10:02 AM	I'd say it's a good +1 LA race if they get all three abilities without having to spend a feat to get them. You could also get the Bengalii a little natural armor to go with their style. +1 or +2 NA is not overpowered for a +1 LA race. Without the above considerations, it's a rather not-so-strong (though not outright weak) +1 LA race. Some fluff to top it off?
The_Cloaked 07-10-07, 02:42 AM	Having slept on it a couple of days and looking at other's comments, I have a couple of suggested revisions to my earlier post. --Str +2, Dex +2, Int -2 The intelligence penalty may not be necessary and the race could probably do without it. I have a tendency to avoid not having penalties to stats in races with which I work; it is an old habit. Since it already has an LA, dropping the penalty is probably a wise thing. --Darkvision 60ft. It may be interesting for them to have Low-light vision as well. More a thought than anything else --Fury (Ex): When a "?" takes damage in combat, it must make a Will save (DC=10+character's HD) or fly into a berserk rage on its next turn (a "?" may not voluntarily fail the save). A "?" attacks until all opponents or itself are dead. The "?" gains +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, and takes a -2 to AC; and may not end the rage voluntarily. Otherwise, this ability functions like the Barbarian's Rage class ability. To answer The_Shaman, I honestly like how it works with badgers and wolverines. I also latched onto this idea that this race has some sort of visible inner struggle with the beast within herself; exactly where that idea came from, I’m not sure but it seems to work with brash and impulsive qualities that Aleolus mentions in one of his posts. As for the revision section of this tangent, I think the ability would function better if the save occurred just at the beginning of combat. So instead, substitute the following: Fury (Ex): When a Bengalii enters combat, it must make a Will save (DC=10+character's HD) or fly into a berserk rage on its next turn; attacking until all opponents or itself are dead (a Bengalii may not voluntarily fail the save). The Bengalii gains +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, and takes a -2 to AC; and may not end the rage voluntarily. When the rage ends, she is considered fatigued for the rest of the encounter. A Bengalii who takes a level in Barbarian losses this racial ability, and instead considered one level higher when gaining rage related features (times per day, increased bonuses, etc). Again, I like the mechanical flavor of the ability; and I like the bump to Barbarian level that Aleolus added also. It's sort of, embracing the beast. --A "?" may choose any ONE of the following abilities at character creation. ---1) Claws: A "?" may choose to deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed attacks, and deals 1d4 slashing damage as a primary natural weapon. I believe that Captain_Kobold hit one out of the park with his suggestion for a change. Claws ability: replace with: The Bengali gains two natural claw attacks doing d4 damage. The Bengali can also make an off-hand claw attack with a free hand, whilst fighting with a weapon, as a secondary attack at a -5 penalty. (A normal unarmed strike for a medium creature is d3 damage and provokes attacks of opportunity.) I hope this will limit the potential insanity others have hinted at and will keep the ability simple. The Bengalii either can take the standard penalty for dealing nonleathal damage or could ignore it with a bit of additional text in the above wording. Adding a +1 or 2 natural armor bonus probably isn't a bad idea, and letting all the racial special features come flat with the class might not be bad either. Overall, if there was no Int penalty and they either gained natural armor or all the "extra" abilities at once it would probably set comfortably at a +1 LA for everyone; but the combination, in my opinion, would land it squarely at a +2. Thanks to Aleolus for taking my suggestions and running with them, and thanks to everyone else for there continued critique.
Aleolus 07-10-07, 03:05 AM	OK, look good, everyone? A +2, you say? Done!
Aleolus 07-10-07, 03:16 AM	Aleolus, if you can, have a look at the Catfolk race. (Races of the Wild, Miniatures handbook I think.) They seem pretty similar to your concept apart from the outsider part. Claws ability: replace with: The Bengali gains two natural claw attacks doing d4 damage. The Bengali can also make an off-hand claw attack with a free hand, whilst fighting with a weapon, as a secondary attack at a -5 penalty. (A normal unarmed strike for a medium creature is d3 damage and provokes attacks of opportunity.) The only problem here, is that unarmed attacks for medium creatures do a d4 damage, not a d3.
NoldorForce 07-10-07, 04:23 PM	It's not LA +2; it's not worth giving up two levels for. Basically, add something more (to make it 2), or remove something (to make it +1). Ideas for decreasing LA: Make some of the racial options scale. They can be relatively low-powered at low levels, then increase in power at higher levels. See raptorans (RotW), hellbred (FC2), and dragonborn (RotD) for reference. Ideas for increasing LA: As above, but set a higher baseline.
Aleolus 07-10-07, 06:06 PM	OK, once we all get this fine-tuned and everything, do you think I should submit it to WotC for any future D&D editions to include? Or should I just leave it as a house-race? Anyway, how about the bonus increasing every certain number of levels?
Captain_Kobold 07-11-07, 03:17 AM	The only problem here, is that unarmed attacks for medium creatures do a d4 damage, not a d3. You may wish to check that. Remember that natural attacks and unarmed strikes are not the same. They use very different rules. A natural attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity but always does lethal damage. As for including the race in people's campaigns; would depend a lot on the accompanying fluff as to whether there is anything particularly unique about the race. Any chance of a description and background?
The_Shaman 07-11-07, 03:31 AM	LA +1 seems about right for it, tbh.
Aleolus 07-11-07, 03:54 AM	Well, I can give you a description, but there's not really much of a background to them, any more than there is for Aasimar or Tieflings. Descendants of a mix of human and Celestial blood, except in this case, their Celestial blood comes from a bestial race, like the Guardinals of Elysium. And of course, the above description can be customized more for varying types of beast-creatures found on that plane, the one given above was for the base kind, descended from Guardials of lupine stock, though it could apply to feline as well. For instance, if you wanted one who's ancestor was an Avian version of a guardinal, simply replace Claws with nonfunctional wings, grant them the ability to fly for short distances (say, 20 feet, clumsy maneuverability), and replace their Fury with something equivilent, but more fitting avian creatures. As for temperment and description, they all seem mostly human, with just a few evident traits that betray their Celestial lineage. More gentle-seeming than the physical deformities of the Tiefling, but much more obvious than the aura of the Aasimar. The version listed above, for instance, would have extended fingernails, which grow into natural points, reminiscent of claws, and would have prevalent animal ears on their head, and so forth. I created this race because someone in one of my campaigns said he wanted to play a character like InuYasha, from the anime, so I based this off of that idea, somewhat, and it grew from there.
Aleolus 07-11-07, 04:01 AM	Well, I can give you a description, but there's not really much of a background to them, any more than there is for Aasimar or Tieflings. Descendants of a mix of human and Celestial blood, except in this case, their Celestial blood comes from a bestial race, like the Guardinals of Elysium. And of course, the above description can be customized more for varying types of beast-creatures found on that plane, the one given above was for the base kind, descended from Guardials of lupine stock, though it could apply to feline as well. For instance, if you wanted one who's ancestor was an Avian version of a guardinal, simply replace Claws with nonfunctional wings, grant them the ability to fly for short distances (say, 20 feet, clumsy maneuverability), and replace their Fury with something equivilent, but more fitting avian creatures. As for temperment and description, they all seem mostly human, with just a few evident traits that betray their Celestial lineage. More gentle-seeming than the physical deformities of the Tiefling, but much more obvious than the aura of the Aasimar. The version listed above, for instance, would have extended fingernails, which grow into natural points, reminiscent of claws, and would have prevalent animal ears on their head, and so forth. I created this race because someone in one of my campaigns said he wanted to play a character like InuYasha, from the anime, so I based this off of that idea, somewhat, and it grew from there.
Aleolus 07-11-07, 04:08 AM	Well, I can give you a description, but there's not really much of a background to them, any more than there is for Aasimar or Tieflings. Descendants of a mix of human and Celestial blood, except in this case, their Celestial blood comes from a bestial race, like the Guardinals of Elysium. And of course, the above description can be customized more for varying types of beast-creatures found on that plane, the one given above was for the base kind, descended from Guardials of lupine stock, though it could apply to feline as well. For instance, if you wanted one who's ancestor was an Avian version of a guardinal, simply replace Claws with nonfunctional wings, grant them the ability to fly for short distances (say, 20 feet, clumsy maneuverability), and replace their Fury with something equivilent, but more fitting avian creatures. As for temperment and description, they all seem mostly human, with just a few evident traits that betray their Celestial lineage. More gentle-seeming than the physical deformities of the Tiefling, but much more obvious than the aura of the Aasimar. The version listed above, for instance, would have extended fingernails, which grow into natural points, reminiscent of claws, and would have prevalent animal ears on their head, and so forth. I created this race because someone in one of my campaigns said he wanted to play a character like InuYasha, from the anime, so I based this off of that idea, somewhat, and it grew from there.
Aleolus 07-16-07, 11:33 PM	Damn, I hate it when the site triple-posts. Anyone know why it does that?