Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Draculator 05-23-07, 06:57 AM	Greetings! I would like to play a Race that is good at attacking and damaging without depending on magic items (that can be taken away if captured) so I can start right off in the first round of combat without waiting for buffs. So I want to go for a high STR stat Race. The campaign will start in Faerun with ECL 5 characters, which excludes non-native playable Races. Also, I at least need a level of Monk because my DM allows spending starting gold on weapon enhancements, especially a Monk's bodily weapons, at character generation time. Thus, I need something with at most ECL (LA + Racial HD) +4. I was first thinking of Wood-elf or Half-orc, but I want at least STR +4. My DM forbids those natural lycanthrope thingies as he sees them as too powerful despite them being in an FR sourcebook as a playable Race. So far I have only found the Dekanter Goblin, Wemic and Centaur, but they are ECL 6-8. So, maybe there is a Core Race that could fit in with me and can be at least sort of assumed to exist in Faerun. If anyone could give me a hint, I could submit it to my DM and ask about it. Many thanks in advance!! -Drac
The_Shaman 05-23-07, 07:11 AM	Hmm, let me see. Are templates okay? Draconic is a stable template for warriors, and draconic wood elves (+4 str, +2 dex, +2 Cha, LA+1) might be your best bet. I guess draconic orcs aren't too bad either. Other than that, CoValor has discussed having goliaths in Faerun, which may be even easier. Something else, hmm... I'm AFB at the moment, but I think the hagspawn from Unapproachable East had a strength bonus
SSj3goblin 05-23-07, 07:35 AM	Orcs have a +4 bonus to strenght and are LA +0, if my memory is correct.
InsanePsychoRabbit 05-23-07, 07:53 AM	How about the Flind gnoll? It's from the Monster Manual III, and has +6 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, 2 HD and LA+2, for a total ECL of +4. That's the first thing I could think of, and Gnolls exist in Faerūn, but I'm not sure if your DM allows the MM3.
Light_Colonel 05-23-07, 07:54 AM	Draconic is a good template for some STR. As is Half-Dragon. For FR melee characters, I personally love Half-Fang Dragon or Half-Shadow Dragon. If you go with Orc as a base race (if you are concerned with light vulnerability you can always take Daylight Adaptation) you will have a pretty massive bonus to STR.
runestar 05-23-07, 08:01 AM	Not specifically FR, but perhaps the half ogre from races of destiny?
Draculator 05-23-07, 08:24 AM	My bad. I am terribly sorry I forgot to mention that templates aren't allowed either (as well as no classes with moves from Tome Of Battle, and no Psionics, ... it's getting more and more fun by the day... :rolleyes: ). I humbly ask for forgiveness those who have already posted good template suggestions - I would so love to try out those! Hm, actually playing an Orc sounds interesting (if my DM allows it). Will it be a much greater RP challenge than playing a Centaur, say, regarding possibly not being allowed to enter cities, being attacked on site, etc.? I don't have Races Of Destiny myself, but I believe one of my fellow players has it in his collection. I will thus also hope to check out the Half-ogre. Thanks everyone so far - even more suggestions are of course very welcome. You people are really great at coming up with helpful stuff, especially if one such as I doesn't have so much experience with 3.0/3.5 yet. -Drac
Draculator 05-23-07, 08:28 AM	Oops, I skipped commenting on the Flind Gnoll. I will check it out, thanks! I just would have the same RP questions regarding that race as pertain to the Orc.
cato 05-23-07, 08:34 AM	My bad. I am terribly sorry I forgot to mention that templates aren't allowed either (as well as no classes with moves from Tome Of Battle, and no Psionics, ... it's getting more and more fun by the day... :rolleyes: ). I humbly ask for forgiveness those who have already posted good template suggestions - I would so love to try out those! -Drac Cudos to your DM for not allowing tome of battle and psionics, thats one good GM since those books are really lame imo..
ff6shadow 05-23-07, 08:45 AM	Mentioned above, Iif the DM will let you. Goliath Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2, LA +1 They are in Races of Stone. Makes for a very powerful fighter or barbarian, especially with the barbarian substitution level.
Ogg 05-23-07, 10:02 AM	Orogs! Underdark Orcs Races of Faerun +6 Str -2 Dex -2 Wis +2 Cha Fire and Cold Resistance 5 +2 Craft (Armorsmithing) and +2 Craft(Weaponsmithing) Light Blindness Dark Vision 120 ft. Proficiency with Greatsword and Throwing Axe. ---- Orcs bigger badder cousins. They have an ECL, +2 or +3, I don't remember which,
AMGriffin 05-23-07, 10:02 AM	Half-Ogre'd. If they are not permitted, go for the traditional Orc.
Ront Iron-Roar 05-23-07, 10:17 AM	Orogs! Underdark Orcs Races of Faerun +6 Str -2 Dex -2 Wis +2 Cha Fire and Cold Resistance 5 +2 Craft (Armorsmithing) and +2 Craft(Weaponsmithing) Light Blindness Dark Vision 120 ft. Proficiency with Greatsword and Throwing Axe. ---- Orcs bigger badder cousins. They have an ECL, +2 or +3, I don't remember which, +2 LA But, don't forget thier +2 natural armor. For roleplaying tips remember Orogs always refer to other humanoid races as "soft skins". They also very honorable. So occassionally use the phrase "Orog Honor". In addition unlike normal Orcs they don't despise Half-Orcs. In fac thier actually intrigued by them do to thier invulnerability to light.
darkeness 05-23-07, 10:22 AM	no one mentioned orogs from races of Fearun. LA+1, basicly deep orcs. Very tough and a good fighter race.
InsanePsychoRabbit 05-23-07, 12:16 PM	Cudos to your DM for not allowing tome of battle and psionics, thats one good GM since those books are really lame imo.. Personally, I like those books. Please do not flame them here, since the books aren't what the topic is about. In fact, please don't flame them anywhere. Draculator, I'm glad to have been helpful!
Nathreet 05-23-07, 12:30 PM	+2 LA But, don't forget thier +2 natural armor. For roleplaying tips remember Orogs always refer to other humanoid races as "soft skins". They also very honorable. So occassionally use the phrase "Orog Honor". In addition unlike normal Orcs they don't despise Half-Orcs. In fac thier actually intrigued by them do to thier invulnerability to light. Orogs! Underdark Orcs Races of Faerun +6 Str -2 Dex -2 Wis +2 Cha Fire and Cold Resistance 5 +2 Craft (Armorsmithing) and +2 Craft(Weaponsmithing) Light Blindness Dark Vision 120 ft. Proficiency with Greatsword and Throwing Axe. ---- Orcs bigger badder cousins. They have an ECL, +2 or +3, I don't remember which, +2 str, -2 dex and +2 natural armor for 2 LA? Meh. I'll bet the normal orc is better. I'd strongly suggest the grimlock. +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma, +4 natural armor, blindsight 40' (!). 2 LA, 2 HD (ECL 4) So you get +2 con, +2 dex and +4 natural armor for your 2 LA, compared to the orc. And you're immune to invisibility, fog, visual illussions, etc. Most importantly, you get full BAB (+2 not +1) for your 2 HD. Those HD also grant listen and spot as class skills. The downside: You have no eyes. But you can "see" perfectly up to 40'. Kinda like Daredevil. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm
Draculator 05-23-07, 01:08 PM	One of the other players has an Elf character in my party, and I understood him when he said there would be racial hatred problem too hard to ignore, denying his char allying with an Orc, regardless of the Orc's alignment. Same goes for the Flind (Gnoll), unfortunately. My party would accept the Half-ogre suggestion though. After all, our Bard still needs roadies for his concerts, so I could drag along his magical amp for him. My DM hasn't responded yet, so the Half-ogre will still have to be permitted. :) I checked the Grimlock's entry, thanks for the pointer. I very soon had to find out. though, that I would not feel comfortable role-playing it. Again, thanks anyway, as all suggestions are welcome. -Drac
darkeness 05-23-07, 01:12 PM	+2 str, -2 dex and +2 natural armor for 2 LA? Meh. I'll bet the normal orc is better. also 120' darkvision and fire & cold res 5. But I agree, not really worth +2 LA adjustment. When I posted I thought it was only +1 LA. If I was to go +2 LA I might think 1/2 ogre, but the grimlock is also nice if a bit odd.
ChibiQueso 05-23-07, 01:46 PM	That's very unfortunate about the loss of the orc and gnoll characters. Well, if there's already an elf in the party, and you really want a race with a str bonus, you could go wood elf. +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int. Decent, but I'm sure there are better choices out there. It does, however, have the benefit of being LA +0.
AtmaWeapon 05-23-07, 01:48 PM	no one mentioned orogs from races of Fearun. LA+1, basicly deep orcs. Very tough and a good fighter race. Orogs should be LA+2, I recently started a FR game at level 4, with no LA higher then +1 accepted, and I had to say no to Orog to at least 2 players due to high LA
darkeness 05-23-07, 01:55 PM	wood elf. +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int. and -2 Chr. Everyone seems to miss that.
Nathreet 05-23-07, 02:02 PM	wood elf. +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int. and -2 Chr. Everyone seems to miss that. According to http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf there's no cha change.
darkeness 05-23-07, 02:20 PM	wood elf. +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int. and -2 Chr. Everyone seems to miss that. According to http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf there's no cha change. Interesting. Forgotten realms core book has the wood elf with a -2 chr. As far as I can tell the players guide to Fearun (effectively the 3.5 update for FR) did not change this. Was it perhaps changed somewhere beisdes the SRD? So the next question is which takes precedence? SRD or FR Core?
Braekor Dragonfang 05-23-07, 02:27 PM	One of the other players has an Elf character in my party, and I understood him when he said there would be racial hatred problem too hard to ignore, denying his char allying with an Orc, regardless of the Orc's alignment. Same goes for the Flind (Gnoll), unfortunately. My party would accept the Half-ogre suggestion though. After all, our Bard still needs roadies for his concerts, so I could drag along his magical amp for him. My DM hasn't responded yet, so the Half-ogre will still have to be permitted. :) I checked the Grimlock's entry, thanks for the pointer. I very soon had to find out. though, that I would not feel comfortable role-playing it. Again, thanks anyway, as all suggestions are welcome. -Drac IIRC Orc-Elf hatred is specific to greyhawk, not FR, there may be patches of it in certain areas, but Orcs, while uncomely and watched heavily by town guards, are not hated to that degree (mostly, depends on where in FR, in Thesk orcs are just a part of society). and also IIRC, gnolls have no racial hatred of elves or vice versa, thought furry hyena people might attract some attention :D
Alac Luin 05-23-07, 02:37 PM	Interesting. Forgotten realms core book has the wood elf with a -2 chr. As far as I can tell the players guide to Fearun (effectively the 3.5 update for FR) did not change this. Was it perhaps changed somewhere beisdes the SRD? So the next question is which takes precedence? SRD or FR Core? In this case, the SRD. In 3.0 core wood elves had that -2 CHA, according to the 3.0 MM1/SRD. FRCS re-printed that as a PC Race block. 3.5 came around and dropped the -2 CHA. Since it is now updated, no need to reprint it. :) The "rule of thumb" is go back to source material. The "three core" books take precedence on rules, with few exceptions.
darkeness 05-23-07, 03:01 PM	In this case, the SRD. In 3.0 core wood elves had that -2 CHA, according to the 3.0 MM1/SRD. FRCS re-printed that as a PC Race block. 3.5 came around and dropped the -2 CHA. Since it is now updated, no need to reprint it. :) The "rule of thumb" is go back to source material. The "three core" books take precedence on rules, with few exceptions. I knew that answer would get answered quickly... and with such thoroughness too :P !
Elemental_Elf 05-23-07, 03:26 PM	What about the bugbear? It has +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma., Darkvision and +3 Natural armor all for 3 Racial hit Dice and a +1 LA. Granted its not amazing but it does have potential. Personally, I prefer the Orc but the Bugbear could work if those nasty racial differences prevent you from playing the Orc.
molten_dragon 05-23-07, 03:51 PM	Looking through the Races of Faerun book, I found the following critters with ECL less than +4 and STR bonus greater than +4. I'm not posting too much info on them because I'm not sure I can legally. Arctic Dwarf, +4 STR, +2 ECL Mountain Orc, +4 STR, 0 ECL Orog, +6 STR, +2 ECL Bugbear, +4 STR, +4 ECL (3 of the ECL is from racial hit dice)
Gabriel Knight52 05-23-07, 10:52 PM	If you can't pick Gnoll (+4 Str, ECL3), I suggest a Feral Gargun (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ros_gallery/83300.jpg)(+4 Str, ECL3, RoS p91), that way you can take a class level in barbarian or fighter etc. and still be under the +4 cap. :D Other than that, a race that hasn't been suggested yet is Goatfolk (+4 Str, ECL3, MM3 p63). {I know, you scoff, but they have +4 strength and an ECL of 4}. a Crucian (Sandstorm p144) has +4 str and their ECL is 2. :)
MikeN 05-24-07, 01:44 AM	See if you can use Savage progression on a Minotaur. They're specifically listed in Savage Species and I think the LA was only around +2.
Explosive_Zombie 05-24-07, 10:07 AM	Don't know if anyone pointed out that Half-Ogre is not a template. Base race like Half-Elf or Half-Orc. Anyway, its got a nice +6 Str among other good stuff, including large size!!!
Gabriel Knight52 05-24-07, 04:41 PM	Don't know if anyone pointed out that Half-Ogre is not a template. Base race like Half-Elf or Half-Orc. Anyway, its got a nice +6 Str among other good stuff, including large size!!! Actually, its both. The Half-Ogre template is found in Dragon 313 p94. :)
ShaRd2000 05-24-07, 04:54 PM	Half-Human/Half-Fang Dragon with a few monk levels is awesome, seeing as how you can do all 3 types of damage: piercing with bite, slashing with claws, and bludgeoning with fists. You do a decent amount with all of em too, and you get +8 str with the template. Fang dragon is preferred due to the fact that all their natural attacks are treated as one size step higher, so your medium human base creature is treated as large for the purposes of his natural attack damage. I'm not 100% sure if that applies to your monk unarmed damage.
Draculator 05-27-07, 03:27 AM	Greetings everyone, I have been reading everything all of you wrote. Thank you for the many further suggestions. If have finally had communication with my DM, that is why I had not responded yet. My DM has decided that for now he will not allow races that would be "usually considered evil on sight", such as any kind of Orc, Gnoll, Bugbear, Half-ogre, etc., regardless of their actual alignments. After all the suggestions, I would love to play the Half-ogre the most. My DM will give us a lot more freedom at char generation in the next campaign, i.e., stronger templates such as Half-dragon, and races such as Half-ogre, etc. Interestingly, he did make a turn regarding the natural lycanthropes, which he now allows, leaving me with the Lythari option to go for since it is the only one with at most ECL +4 (although it does only have STR +2, it is worth a consideration due to the DR, but I have not figured out yet wether the alignment is really fixed if only using hybrid form since I want to play a Monk). Thus: For now, I will have to settle with Arctic Dwarf (thanks for the reminder!), or Woodelf Lythari (natural). Thanks everyone! You all contributed very much to my understanding of these things! -Drac
The_Shaman 05-27-07, 04:51 AM	Just so you know, a wood elf lythari has an ECL of 5. I'm not sure it's very good for monk, but it's your choice.
Draculator 05-27-07, 01:37 PM	I was using Races Of Faerun, I do not know if it looks differently in other sources. But here, it is +2 LA for natural (+1 for afflicted) and the Lythari has 2d8 HD. Woodelf is LA +0. -Drac