Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Courrain 05-13-07, 12:13 PM	In an earlier thread that dealt with the fairness/unfairness about LA's, I read that supposedly all of the current D&D settings (Eberron, Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk) were designed with the standard races from the PHB in mind. So what makes the races in the PHB 'standard'? And why were the settings built with just them when D&D gave us so many other interesting races in the various Monster Manuals to play with? :P So if you were creating your own unique setting, what races would you choose to star in it?
AMGriffin 05-13-07, 01:28 PM	In my personal campaign the big races are Humans, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Elves, and Dwarves. So it's not that much of a deviation really, it's primarily based on what the people I game with usually play. I've never seen anybody play a halfling or a gnome before.
fiendish_platypus 05-13-07, 01:34 PM	I use kobolds alot, but otherwise I try to keep it balanced between PHB races and races from splatbooks.
jamesnero 05-13-07, 01:41 PM	Halflings and gnomes all the way in my homegrown world and humans too.
skio 05-13-07, 01:47 PM	Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings basically. I would remove gnomes (I do not find a reason of existence for them, see them as mere dwarf-halfling hybrids) and replace half-orcs with orcs (I hate watered-down half-races). Beyond these, I would probably use goblinoids and kobolds as standard races due to popularity. In my own CS I also use a lot of antrhopomorphic animal races, so catfolk, lupins, serpentfolk, minotaurs, aarakocra etc are also welcome.
AMGriffin 05-13-07, 02:25 PM	Well, in my newest campaign I've lowered Playable races to the following List LA+0 Races Humans Gnomes (Now with +2 Int, -2 Wis and no affintiy for illusions whatsosever!) Goblins Elves (Homebrew mod) Steel Orcs (Homebrew Mod) Dwarves (Homebrew Mod) Half-Orcs (Homebrew Mod) Half-Elves (Homebrew Mod) LA+1 Races Hobgoblins (Homebrew Mod) Gnolls (Basically removed the two racial HD and gave 'em low-light instead of darkvision) Aasimar (Now a Template) Tiefling (Now a Template) Draconic LA+2 Races Half-Ogres (Basically the RoD Half-Ogre with a bonus feat) Deep Orcs (Homebrew subrace) Bugbears (the basic PHB race but with powerful build and a flat +2 LA)
Elathron 05-13-07, 03:21 PM	Could you post your home made elf, half-elf, and half orc???
AMGriffin 05-13-07, 03:58 PM	Sure, ELVES • +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma -2 Constitution. Elves are slender and frail, but have a charming gracefulness about them. • Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Elf base land speed is 30 feet. • Sleepless: Elves don't sleep, but rather go into a "trance" for four hours to rest, they gain immunity to sleep spells, and gain a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. • Keen senses: Elves gain a +2 racial bonus on listen, search, and spot checks as well as low-light vision. • Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan. • Favored Class: Sorcerer. A multiclass elf ’s sorcerer class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Elves have an innate affinity for arcane magic. So basically... GONE: Weapon proficiency, automatic door sense ability Added: +2 Charisma HALF-ELVES • Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet. • Light Sleepers: Half-elves do not trance like elves, but they are extremely light sleeprs. They gain a +4 bonus to all saves against sleep spells and similar magical effects, as well as a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects. • Sharp senses: Half-elves gain a +1 racial bonus on listen, search, and spot checks as well as low-light vision. • Adaptable: Half-elves are capable of learning a wide variety of talents. They gain 1 Extra feat at first level. • Mixed Blood: For all effects related to race, half-elves count as both humans and elves. • Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). • Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-elf takes an experience point penalty, her highest-level class does not count. Half-elves are versitaile just as their human parents are. HALF-ORCS • +2 Strength, -2 Charisma. Half-orcs are strong, but are socially maladjusted loners. • Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet. •Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all. • Mentally tough: A combination of human insight, orcish stubbornness, and their experiences with a cruel world, half-orcs quickly wise up to things and develop a rather rough demeanor. They gain a +2 morale bonus on saves against fear, and +2 racial bonuses on intimidate, sense motive, and survival checks. •Mixed Blood: For effects related to race, a half-orc is considered both orcish and human. • Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Any. • Favored Class: Barbarian, ranger or fighter. A multiclass half-orc’s barbarian, ranger or fighter (whichever is highest) class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty. A half-orc is indeed versitaile, but do have notable knack for combat.
FatMonkey13 05-13-07, 04:39 PM	Well I would probably remove +1 LA or 2 racial HD from most creatures and let the players play nearly anything (that they can offer an explanation for)... my current group is not so experienced so I am keeping things normal instead. I am currently using a custom setting (it uses Grayhawk, and Forgotten Realms in the background but is really just very generic). So far PC's are Warforged, Elf, Thri-keen, and Halfling. Most NPC's have been Bugbear, Hobgoblin, Orc, or Human with important NPC being 2 Trolls, 1 Ogre, 1 Ogre Mage, 1 Intelligent Ogre Mage Zombie, and a few humanoids.
Rakor 05-13-07, 09:31 PM	AMGriffin: It would seem to me that you've eliminated human as a playable race. The only thing they have over half elves is an extra skill. Although you are absolutely right that both the half races need to be radically changed.
snakeman830 05-14-07, 08:50 AM	My dream world contains all the races. Wait, that's what I use. Okay. I'd love to drop humans (because I don't like them, even in real life. Please don't critique) and possibly elves (One of the players in my group stubbornly refuses to be any thing but an elf and it's getting annoying). That's it, I guess.
gwiber 05-14-07, 09:46 AM	"And why were the settings built with just them when D&D gave us so many other interesting races in the various Monster Manuals to play with?" Because the original editions did not have the option of playing the other races truly. Any that were made playable were ST made ad hocs. or brought in MUCH later in side books. The proliferation of races across the books reminds me a little too much of the power creep problem in "Rifts". While it's nice. the game was originally intended for more or less humanoid and humanoid looking races.
Naderion 05-14-07, 10:05 AM	Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings basically. I would remove gnomes (I do not find a reason of existence for them, see them as mere dwarf-halfling hybrids). Did almost the same. Halflings are just human-gnome hybrids. :D I reduced the number of settlement-building races drastically. Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, Goblins, Lizardfolk and Giants are the most prominent races at land, Sea Elves, Merfolk, Kuo-toa and Sahuagin in the oceans. There are also 6 or 8 minor races, that have small villages or camps in the wilderness.
RobbyPants 05-14-07, 11:24 AM	AMGriffin, those are nice re-works. I particularly like your two half-races. As for the OP, I ususally use any of the standard PHB races, usually most sub-races (at least from the DMG/MM), and the LA+0 MM humanoids. I am also planning on dropping the LA from hobgoblins from +1 to +0 and using them as-is. I'm still toying with a few low LA races. I'm planning on starting my next campaign at level 3...
MasonMurdoc 05-14-07, 11:47 AM	I always thought half-races need to be templates Half-Elf Half-Orc Aasimar Teifling The 4 Genasi Stuff like that
Balthanon 05-14-07, 12:05 PM	So what makes the races in the PHB 'standard'? And why were the settings built with just them when D&D gave us so many other interesting races in the various Monster Manuals to play with? :P There are a few reasons in my mind. The first is probably just that those Monster Manuals weren't available in third edition when they first put things out. The second is that ultimately, you want to keep the basic books as simple as you can. The more races you introduce, the more complexity you're bringing into the picture for new players. Finally, the reason that they chose those particular races is probably because of a concept that Wizards of the Coast spoke about in an article awhile back called traction. Basically, those are just iconic creatures that stick in players minds and that people continue to come back to again and again. I had a thread awhile back that talked about "Races with Traction" (WotC initially spoke about it in reference to monsters) that was fairly interesting and basically was asking which new races that have come out since the core books you could see in future editions of the game due to their traction. The list that came out of it essentially were those races that filled a unique niche better than any of their competition. The shifters for the feral character, changelings for their adaptable nature, warforged for that construct archetype, elans as psionic creatures, etc.-- and I think that is what you need to do in any campaign if you're going to limit races. Essentially look at what is available, decide what niches you want your characters to have access to, and then choose the race whose flavor fits that.
YabaTheWhat 05-14-07, 12:19 PM	The races I allow: Modified Core Races (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/CoreRaces.htm) (no halfbreeds) Hobgoblins (LA+0 unmodified) Changelings, Goblins, Kobolds, Orcs Poison Dusk Lizardfolk (LA+1) Custom Races: Shassani (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/Shassan.htm) (catfolk) and Daysprites (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/Daysprite.htm) (fey kin) When I believe someone is up for a roleplaying challenge, I would allow them to play an Ostarap (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/Ostarap.htm) (intelligent ostrich/flamingo cross). Elves used to bug me, mainly because people would create elven characters then play them as if they were human. The elf for every occasion still bugs me, but it's easy to say no to that in one's own campaign world. If I was trimming things down, I'd probably allow the modified core races, changelings, shassani, and daysprites.
DreadArchon 05-14-07, 12:25 PM	I let my players play more or less whatever they want, though I sometimes make modifications for balance: Goblins: No Str penalty; Goblins are unusually strong for their size. Half-Elves: +2 Cha, but no additional bonus to Diplomacy or Gather Information; Half-Elves end up with the best parts of the personalities of their parent races, and the magical aspect of an elf crossed with the adaptability of a human makes for an excellent sorcerer or bard. Kobolds: Str penalty reduced to -2, no Con penalty, no Light sensitivity; Kobolds aren't physically useless, nor are they unfamiliar with bright light. Orcs, Half-Orcs: No Cha penalty, no Int penalty; Orcs do not have especially weak personalities, nor are they particularly stupid (though true Orcs are still rather dense and careless).
The White Sorcerer 05-14-07, 02:29 PM	So what makes the races in the PHB 'standard'? And why were the settings built with just them when D&D gave us so many other interesting races in the various Monster Manuals to play with? :P Because the PH races are the good guys, and the MM races are the bad guys. Duh.
AMGriffin 05-14-07, 04:22 PM	AMGriffin: It would seem to me that you've eliminated human as a playable race. The only thing they have over half elves is an extra skill. Although you are absolutely right that both the half races need to be radically changed. Hardly eliminated. Humans are still far more easy to customize, and most of the half-elf's bonuses are rather bland as it is. A save against charms, low-light vision, and some skill bonuses compared to four skill points to spend any way you wish and then one additional skill point every level?
AMGriffin 05-14-07, 05:18 PM	Did almost the same. Halflings are just human-gnome hybrids. :D Buh! How'd you come to that conclusion? ._.
Forgember 05-14-07, 06:30 PM	Would drop orcs and half orcs all together, Gnomes are cool as long as they have a distinct flavor like the Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes. I do agree that in Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk Gnomes seem little more than Halfling/Dwarf Hybrids and have no real flavor of their own. I also prefer the flavor of Kender to modern halflings that are just tiny humans, seems they stole the new look for halflings from Kender anyway. Guess my list would go : Human Dwarf Elf (Darkvision 30ft in addition to Lowlight Vision, Sleep normally) Half-Elf (+2 Dex, also Sleep normally) Tinker Gnome (+2 Int, -2 Wis) Kender Same as Player's Handbook unless otherwise noted. No changes for Subraces
Stado 05-14-07, 06:56 PM	Well, my current campaign setting has humans, dwarves, gnomes, and halflings as the only playable races. I don't really want to get into detail as to why this is, so I'll just say that they're basically pretty much the only even remotely humanoid things left around. Oh, the elves (the PHB norm, dubbed sun elves and my own homebrewed variants, pale elves) are still around, they're just not playable, and for good reason, too. The playable races would likely kill them on sight, not to mention the fact that the playable races don't even know the elves are still alive (they haven't seen an elf for thousands upon thousands of years). This is not to say that this is my ideal campaign setting — quite the contrary, I came up with an interesting setting and thought to use it for most of my current games. My ideal campaign setting is the one I've used in the past and will return to using once I flesh out the one I'm using now. Ideally, nothing's a "major" race in my campaign, not even humans. Pretty much everything's free reign. There's always some way to fit a new and interesting race or subrace into the setting without making a mess of it. To put it simply, the world in which this setting takes place is just huge. HUGE! None of its inhabitants even know the full extent of the world they live upon; no living thing has seen everything (this includes most of, if not all, the gods).
skio 05-14-07, 07:09 PM	Gnomes are cool as long as they have a distinct flavor like the Dragonlance Tinker Gnomes. I have given this aspect of the gnomes to the dwarves. Who said that dwarves craft only ores and gems? This also makes the dwarven race more versatile in terms of depiction (I hate stereotypes and I like giving my players many options in depicting their character)
Naderion 05-14-07, 07:52 PM	Buh! How'd you come to that conclusion? ._. Both halflings and gnomes are very similar in most aspects, with the exception of the tinkering/alchemy stuff of the gnomes and the gypsy-lifestyle of the halfing, but these are two things that both don't fit at all into the overall design of game world I had thus far. I wanted to have every race a really strong, and most important unique, racial identy with every niche occupied by only one race. As I made the Orcs a race with a strong sense of their quite unique morality and intelligent people (no Wis-penalty) who just prefer simpler technology (Int-penalty), hobgoblins became redundant and got scraped. The pysically stronger and more brutal mountain-orc subrace became very similar to bugbears, so they got out, too. I didn't like the D&D image of trolls and made the trolls more 'cave-trollish', but this made them very similar to ogres, so these had to go, too. So with the Halflings and Gnomes, it again came down to chose one of them and take the other out, so I could focus all my attention on one small humanoid race and didn't have to divide my ideas on two seperate races, that preferedly should have very few similarities. Gnomes won, because they are far more hobbitish than halflings are, and I prefered the old-school style in designing this world. :D In theory, I would allow my players to play every race that can be found in the game setting, as long as they all chose races that work well for the type of campaign we chose. It's okay when one player wants to play a goblin when the other players take orcs and I can design the adventures with orc-PCs in mind. Even an elven rogue wouldn't be a problem in a gang of frost giant fighters and clerics, but a troll and a gnoll just don't work when the other players all want to play elves or dwarves. Frost giants wouldn't face any troubles because they are in company of an elf, but you cannot just step into an elven village with a troll in tow.
AMGriffin 05-14-07, 09:15 PM	Well yeah, I get that but... Human+Gnome=Halfling That doesn't seem quite right.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-14-07, 09:46 PM	So what makes the races in the PHB 'standard'? Tolkien, basically.
CryoSilver 05-14-07, 10:06 PM	IMC, all PHB races are options, except the 2 half-breeds, which do not exist. Much as I'm pretty sure humans and chimps can't interbreed, orcs and humans cannot, nor elves, at least in my game. That said, goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, gnolls, kobolds and a couple homebrew races are allowed as PCs, as are most races with LA 2 or less.
zzo38 05-15-07, 01:33 PM	I play human characters half of the time. I also play the Drakeling race from ADOM sometimes (I wrote it down and gave it to the DM for permission...). Also recently another player has tried to play Hylian race. It is OK but it was too powerful how he wrote it (a bonus feat at every level, and +5 Z-targeting!) so I had to correct it because the DM didn't know how to correct 3.5 edition stuff. And, halflings aren't human/gnome hybrids, but it may be almost like that... The first game we ever played we had 2 elves and 1 human (me).
snakeman830 05-15-07, 03:13 PM	Tolkien, basically. :heehee