Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zovc 10-14-07, 02:31 PM	Alright, guys, here are the stats for a race I am working on: +2 Strength, +4 Constitution Size: Medium-Sized Type: Humanoid (Goblinoid) Darkvision out to 60 feet A [race]’s base land speed is 30 feet +2 natural armor bonus +4 racial bonus to intimidate checks Special: A [race] begins play with the scent ability. [Race] have claws which they may attack with, given they aren’t holding anything in the clawing hand; these claws deal 1d4 damage. Powerful Build: The physical stature of [race]s lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a [race] is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the [race] is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A [race] is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A [race] can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Automatic Languages: Goblin Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon Favored Class: Barbarian Level Adjustment: +2 +4 Strength, +4 Constitution Size: Medium-Sized Type: Humanoid (Goblinoid) Low-light vision A Bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet +2 natural armor bonus +2 racial bonus to concentration, intimidate, and survival checks Special: A bugbear begins play with the scent ability. Special: A bugbear begins play with the power attack feat, even if they don't meet the prerequisites. Weapon Familiarity: Bugbears may treat Notched Axes as martial weapons. Bugbears have claws which they may attack with, given they aren’t holding anything in the clawing hand; these claws deal 1d6 damage. Powerful Build: The physical stature of bugbears lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a bugbear is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the bugbear is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A bugbear is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A bugbear can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Automatic Languages: Goblin Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon Favored Class: Barbarian Level Adjustment: +2 What modifications would you suggest to make this more suited for a LA +2, if need be? My question about powerful build is, "Will powerful build make this race's claws hurt more?" Would the damage go from 1d4 to 1d6?
Crimson_Concerto 10-14-07, 02:41 PM	My question about powerful build is, "Will powerful build make this race's claws hurt more?" Would the damage go from 1d4 to 1d6?No. Powerful Build doesn't make you bigger. It just lets you wield bigger weapons. However, natural weapons are still part of you, so they're still your size. If the race is medium-sized, then it has medium-sized claws, regardless of Powerful Build. You could just give them a 1D6 claw attack anyways (just as another racial benefit, I guess), but Powerful Build would have nothing to do with it.
Zovc 10-14-07, 03:04 PM	No. Powerful Build doesn't make you bigger. It just lets you wield bigger weapons. However, natural weapons are still part of you, so they're still your size. If the race is medium-sized, then it has medium-sized claws, regardless of Powerful Build. You could just give them a 1D6 claw attack anyways (just as another racial benefit, I guess), but Powerful Build would have nothing to do with it. I think I will bump their claws up to 1d6, then. Also, another powerful build question, does it increase carrying capacity? Another thing, how do you feel about the +2 LA?
larry_the_titan 10-14-07, 03:47 PM	Not bad but not powerful enough for LA+2. Might work as a LA+1 if you drop the con mod to +2 instead of +4. Another note you need to make is that Powerful build treats a creature as +1 size for intimidate already so your Powerful build Humanoid (Goblin) has a +4 size mod and a +4 racial bonus to the same skill. You should change the bonus to a smaller amount and spread the bonus over several other skills. Another note Goblin creature have been given crappy stats by WotC so I suggest when making a creature with powerful build you should look at Goliaths. Also give them something original it might add to there racial flair. Look at Goliaths for a second. They have powerful Build but they also have Mountain Movement. Half-Giants also have powerful build but they also have Fire Acclimated. I don't know what you plan to do with the race with just the stats. Try writing down some background and racial tendencies maybe you will find something besides Intimidate to put a bonus on.
Zovc 10-14-07, 05:01 PM	Not bad but not powerful enough for LA+2. Might work as a LA+1 if you drop the con mod to +2 instead of +4. Another note you need to make is that Powerful build treats a creature as +1 size for intimidate already so your Powerful build Humanoid (Goblin) has a +4 size mod and a +4 racial bonus to the same skill. You should change the bonus to a smaller amount and spread the bonus over several other skills. Being a member of the goblinoid subtype automatically gives a +4 to intimidate? These are not goblins, but a member of the same subtype. Lower in the post I will post some of the flavor I have typed. Perhaps you'll be able to help me spread out this skill bonus. My reason for giving the +4 to intimidate had to do with their intimidating appearance and their size. Another note Goblin creature have been given crappy stats by WotC so I suggest when making a creature with powerful build you should look at Goliaths. Also give them something original it might add to there racial flair. Look at Goliaths for a second. They have powerful Build but they also have Mountain Movement. Half-Giants also have powerful build but they also have Fire Acclimated. Again, I am not basing this race off of goblins, I'm making this race from scratch, they're my interpretation of bugbears. I don't know what you plan to do with the race with just the stats. Try writing down some background and racial tendencies maybe you will find something besides Intimidate to put a bonus on. Alright, here's what I've typed up so far, it's got a similar formatting to the player's handbook, which is what I was aiming for: Physical Description: Standing easily above 7 feet tall with well muscled bodies, bugbears are quite a large people. Bugbears average at 7 and a half feet tall and roughly 375 pounds. A bugbear’s skin usually falls in between some light or dark shade of a color close to brown, yellow, or yellow-green. Bugbear bodies usually have lots of coarse, black hair on them, especially on their chests, back, and legs. Bugbear hair is usually coarse or wavy black, or sometimes brown, occasionally red hair is found on a bugbear; elder bugbears’ hair becomes grey streak by streak. Bugbear males begin growing facial hair as soon as they become teenagers, usually. Relations: Bugbears are respected by nearly every race that lives near them; however, other races may only see their aggressive side, and assume that they tantrum easily. Usually the only reason for a negative relation with bugbears is being against their cause. Anyone that knows a bugbear more than likely feels safe around them and views them as a protector. Alignment: Bugbears tend toward good above any other alignment; they are usually kind and selfless. The only noted evil bugbears are ones that have been abandoned, and as such, had to raise themselves alone. Bugbears don’t tend towards chaos; however, they stray away from law, as many of them are barbarians. Lands: Bugbears are not a widespread race; few venture away from the lands they share with other goblinoids. The only time bugbears leave their homelands is for war and peacekeeping. Religion: Bugbears usually worship Kord, the god of strength. Language: Like other goblinoids, bugbears speak Goblin, the language invented long ago by goblins. *In my campaign setting* (don't want to hear about killing flavor, etc.), I intend for bugbears to be a sort of "gentle giant" to the rest of the goblinoids and their allies, but ferocious warriors against anyone who threatens them or the ones they care for.
Dracomorph 10-15-07, 03:34 AM	What he meant is that the Powerful Build trait gives them a +4 on intimidate checks. I agree with him that another +4 for racial tendencies on top of that is pretty excessive, at least rules-wise. +2 is the biggest racial bonus I would give 'em. Really, I would probably remove it entirely.
Ieniemienie 10-15-07, 10:19 AM	When looking for a suitable LA, compare to the Goliath from RoS p56, has great similarities with your race.
Zovc 10-15-07, 12:25 PM	I'm not looking for a suitable LA, I'm trying to suit them to the LA of +2. Alright, I've taken away the racial +4 to intimidate, and I'm trying to think of something unique to give to bugbears that will make them stand out. The best I can think of at the moment, however, is just to give them damage reduction, as it fits their tough nature. What kind of damage reduction would be needed to boost them up to a LA of +2?
larry_the_titan 10-15-07, 01:30 PM	Well since you still want them to be scary I suggest +2 Intimidate. At the moment your race doesn't have much in fluff that isn't focused out of combat. I suggest you decide what the favored class of your bugbears is going to be then the region that they would live in. Then apply skill bonus's from that. Here's some possible bonuses you can give them. Survival +2 Handle Animal +2 Move silently +2 (Normal Bugbears have a +4) listen +2 spot +2 +2 saves vs mind effects +1 to hit a certain kind of creature or race or something one of a kind for there race Racial weapons treated as martial (you would have to make one up.) free power attack for the first 5 points of BAB If you go for a LA +2 instead of +1 you should probably add several of these and up there stats.
Zovc 10-15-07, 02:52 PM	Okay, looking at what you've said, how do you feel about this? Changes made are bolded. +2 Strength, +4 Constitution Size: Medium-Sized Type: Humanoid (Goblinoid) Low-light vision A Bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet +2 natural armor bonus +2 racial bonus to concentration, intimidate, and survival checks Special: A bugbear begins play with the scent ability. Special: A bugbear begins play with the racial power attack feat. Bugbears have claws which they may attack with, given they aren’t holding anything in the clawing hand; these claws deal 1d6 damage. Powerful Build: The physical stature of bugbears lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a bugbear is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the bugbear is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A bugbear is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A bugbear can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Automatic Languages: Goblin Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon Favored Class: Barbarian Level Adjustment: +2 Racial Power Attack Benefits: As the power attack feat. Special: A creature with this feat may only decrease from their attack roll a number equal to their strength modifier. Taking the power attack feat replaces this feat. Concerning Racial Power Attack, Do you think it should be based on strength modifer, base attack, or just give bugbears the power attack feat? I could also have it to where only "martial" classes get the power attack feat (automatically), and other classes only get racial power attack. Also, how would making the bugbear's strength bonus a +4 (instead of +2, not totaling it to +6) affect the LA? I've got to be getting close by now. On the topic of racial weapons, bugbears and the other goblinoids are rather tribal, I planned on them using mostly simple and martial weapons. Instead of weapon familiarity, I'd have to simply give them proficiency with one of a few axes, as that's what I intend for bugbears to use. The only other changes I can think of that suit my bugbears would be a bonus to wisdom or a bonus to will saves against fear/mind-affecting, or a bonus to strength-based skills.
ToastedAmphibian 10-15-07, 04:10 PM	Id say give them +4 str and Power Attack as a bonus feat.The weakest member of their race (Assuming a point buy minum value of 8 before racial adjustment) would have a 12 str, just shy of the needed 13 for powerattack, so letting them have it isnt much of a strech. An average member would have 14, so ya, just give em the normal power attack feat. From a utility stand point i have to ask, why claws? A creature with this much strenght, powerfull build, free power attack, and some kind of extra axe proficency..... there gonna want to use that axe two handed. The claw attack would be useless almost always. Would you consider changing it to a single slam attack? That way it might actually do something aside from artifically increase the LA, aside from giving them a backup in case they somehow get disarmed. (Not likley to happen while they are double handing an axe with powerfull build......) Since your looking for a special weapon to give them proficency with, mabey you could creat a kind of two-handed axe that gives a disarm (Or mabey trip) bonus? Considering their fluff, removing someone weapon is a much faster way of stoping them from hurting something else than killing them, and it prevents bloodshed (If they are trying to protect goblins, they really really really need to be equiped to protect goblins from goblins without having to worry about protecting goblins from themselves)
Zovc 10-15-07, 05:46 PM	Id say give them +4 str and Power Attack as a bonus feat.The weakest member of their race (Assuming a point buy minum value of 8 before racial adjustment) would have a 12 str, just shy of the needed 13 for powerattack, so letting them have it isnt much of a strech. An average member would have 14, so ya, just give em the normal power attack feat. Alright, +4 str and power attack. From a utility stand point i have to ask, why claws? A creature with this much strenght, powerfull build, free power attack, and some kind of extra axe proficency..... there gonna want to use that axe two handed. The claw attack would be useless almost always. Would you consider changing it to a single slam attack? That way it might actually do something aside from artifically increase the LA, aside from giving them a backup in case they somehow get disarmed. (Not likley to happen while they are double handing an axe with powerfull build......) Well, in all honesty, The reason I went with claws is because I didn't want them to be able to use the natural attack and a weapon at the same time. I just was giving it to give them an edge when unarmed. I actually planned on putting my goblinoid PCs in jail at least once or twice. I was also going to have them rescue a renown from jail, while they could bring him a weapon, he'd be able to hold his own better without one. An artificial bonus, possibly, but it is certainly useful when everyone else is doing about 1d4 subdual damage. Since your looking for a special weapon to give them proficency with, mabey you could creat a kind of two-handed axe that gives a disarm (Or mabey trip) bonus? Considering their fluff, removing someone weapon is a much faster way of stoping them from hurting something else than killing them, and it prevents bloodshed (If they are trying to protect goblins, they really really really need to be equiped to protect goblins from goblins without having to worry about protecting goblins from themselves) I like that idea, I'm glad you mentioned it! Taking powerful build into considderation, should the axe be large or huge? Thanks for all of the great feedback, ToastedAmphibian! I've got to be close to that LA+2 now.
Dracomorph 10-15-07, 05:48 PM	For a racial weapon familiarity, I recommend the Longaxe from CAdv. Works like a greataxe, but has an optional 5ft. reach.
Zovc 10-15-07, 06:27 PM	For a racial weapon familiarity, I recommend the Longaxe from CAdv. Works like a greataxe, but has an optional 5ft. reach. While I like longaxes, it doesn't make as much sense to me in terms of flavor. The way I think of a tripping/disarm axe... Bugbears save goblins all the time, so one notices a bugbear disarming someone with a bit of trouble, and realizes he could craft an axe with a dip here or there to make that easier on the bugbear. Sure, the goblin could see a bugbear miss someone because his axe isn't long enough, but that just doesn't fit as well.
ToastedAmphibian 10-15-07, 06:40 PM	The axe should be two handed. The size would depend upon the intended user. Assuming the intended user is one of yoru bugbears it should probably be sized for a large creature. They wouldnt be able to use a huge one unless they used enlarge humanoid or something, and in that case their large weapon would grow with them. Mabey something like this; Bugbear Notched Axe Exotic two-handed weapon DMG medium 1d10 DMG large 1d12 This large axe resembles a great axe, but has a large gap about a third of the way down the blade. This gap, as large as 8 inches on the largest of these axes, are ideal for catching weapons, and are quite usefull for pulling an enemy off balance. Special: Triping weapon, +2 bonus on disarm attempts. A bugbear may treat this as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon. Just a thought. (Quasi-Ninja'd!)
Zovc 10-15-07, 07:09 PM	The axe should be two handed. The size would depend upon the intended user. Assuming the intended user is one of yoru bugbears it should probably be sized for a large creature. They wouldnt be able to use a huge one unless they used enlarge humanoid or something, and in that case their large weapon would grow with them. Mabey something like this; Bugbear Notched Axe Exotic two-handed weapon DMG medium 1d10 DMG large 1d12 This large axe resembles a great axe, but has a large gap about a third of the way down the blade. This gap, as large as 8 inches on the largest of these axes, are ideal for catching weapons, and are quite usefull for pulling an enemy off balance. Special: Triping weapon, +2 bonus on disarm attempts. A bugbear may treat this as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon. Okay, so large creatures can use large two-handed weapons. I was probably thinking of 3.0 Looks good to me, however, you put "Special: Tripping weapon, +2 bonus on disarm attempts." Does 'tripping weapon' entitle something? or was it supposed to be 'disarming weapon'?
Dracomorph 10-15-07, 08:09 PM	"Tripping weapon" is shorthand for "you can drop the weapon if you fail a trip attempt, in order to avoid giving the other guy a chance to trip you back."
Zovc 10-15-07, 08:47 PM	Ah, I thought that was what it meant, but I wanted to make sure. I thought 'Disarming weapon' could have been what the bonus was called.
ToastedAmphibian 10-15-07, 08:47 PM	Tripping Weapon is short hand for "You can use this weapon to make a trip attack. If you fail your trip you can drop this weapon to avoid giving the other guy a chance to trip you back" You can attempt to disarm with ANY weapon. A trip attack can ONLY be made with tripping weapons. Otherwise it is an UNARMED touch attack
Zovc 10-15-07, 08:58 PM	Ah!... Also, wouldn't dropping the axe leave you unarmed? Thus making the claws more useful, right? :P
ToastedAmphibian 10-15-07, 09:32 PM	Correct!
Zovc 10-15-07, 10:03 PM	So, I guess this race is now worthy of the +2 LA, and has a cool new axe to go with it's flavor and stats?
ArochanoX 10-16-07, 01:22 AM	IIRC all goblinoids have darkvision and +4 racial bonus to move silently. Even though the latter wouldn't matter much, it's still a nice twist having a silent AND FRIKING HUGE furry goblin stalking you...
larry_the_titan 10-16-07, 06:57 AM	So, I guess this race is now worthy of the +2 LA, and has a cool new axe to go with it's flavor and stats? There is only one issue I have with the Axe its 1d10 medium and goes to 1d12 large. Standard 1d10 medium go to 2d8 large normally. Bastard swords have this kind of damage and they are treated as martial 2 handed weapons. It is not really that powerful because they could still wield a Large great sword for 3d6 damage commonly. IIRC all goblinoids have darkvision and +4 racial bonus to move silently. Even though the latter wouldn't matter much, it's still a nice twist having a silent AND FRIKING HUGE furry goblin stalking you... Actually I have had Half-Dead Bugbears jump my character's Party. They snuck up on the party cleric and left her for dead as the rest of us had to 3 of them off. Oh by Half dead I mean the variant of a template in BoVD.
Zovc 10-16-07, 02:28 PM	Okay, 2d8 damage is correct, I had to make sure. As far as move silently goes, sure, it's a twist for a huge fuzzy goblin to sneak up on you, but that's just not something that the average member of my bugbear race would do.