Post/Author/DateTime	Post
flaiquiri 06-20-07, 04:10 AM	I don't yet have a backstory, ethos, feel or name for this race, but the idea of it and the mechanic of its "signature ability" popped into my head and I want to get some input. Any is appreciated ^-^! I suspect that this has probably been done before, but the idea is that their inclinations and aptitudes run to "mystery-solving," with an emphasis on deduction and flights of inspiration as well as ground-pounding as opposed to research. Working name: Snoop. Medium Humanoid Base Speed 30ft. Land -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha +2 racial bonus to 2 knowledge skills of their choice +4 racial bonus to Intelligence checks, not including untrained skill checks -1 penalty to all Will saves; increases to -3 against torture to reveal information or modified level checks to reveal information Loose Tongue(Ex, requires cleanup): Whenever they succeed on a Knowledge check or Intelligence check not intended to recall information (it may incidentally accomplish this as well) with a result greater than or equal to their character level, they must make a will save with a DC of the check result -12 + the number of times that they have succeeded on the save already whenever they talk to someone or tell them something that they figured out. Also, if they cheat at a game with rules by making a Knowledge, Lore or Intelligence check, they must make a will save every round with a DC equal to the check result - 12 + the number of times that they have succeeded on the save already or tell a participant of the subterfuge at the earliest possible opportunity. Whenever a Snoop makes a trained Knowledge check, roll a d20. A result of 1 initiates a special series of Knowledge checks using skills in which she has at least a number of ranks equal to her HD +2, in the following manner.* 1. The Knowledge check which initiated the ability is designated the Final check. 2. The Basis Value, which can be any integer, is selected by the Snoop. The Insight Pool value is set to 0. It can never exceed the Basis Value (rounded up to the next lowest integer). 3. The Snoop makes a Knowledge check of a type of her choice which she has not already made during this use of the ability and which fits the above requirements. She is considered to be in a stressful situation for the purpose of this check. She receives a penalty on this check equal to 20 + the Basis Value (*1/2 if the final check is an untrained Intelligence check) * the number of times that step 2 has been performed during this use of the ability, including this time. She receives an insight bonus on this check equal to the current Insight Pool value. The result of this check, divided by 10 (or by 5 if the final check is an untrained Intelligence check) and rounded down to the next lowest integer, is added to the Insight Pool value. If the check result is 0 or less, continue to step 5. 4. The Snoop may choose to continue to step 5 or to return to step 3. 5. The Snoop makes the Final check with an insight bonus equal to the Insight Pool value. Once this ability has been used, it may not be used again for 2d4+10 days. This ability may alternately be triggered by 72 consecutive hours of uninterrupted contemplation or study, of which at least 54 hours are spent in contemplation or study and consisting of interruptions lasting no longer than 6 hours, subject to the same reuse limitation as evaluated from the end of the ability's use. This ability cannot be applied to Knowledge checks whose DCs measure consistency and scope over time, such as the use of Knowledge(Economics and Business) to start a business as enumerated in Quintessential Aristocrat, a Knowledge(Architecture and Engineering) check to plan or oversee construction, or a Knowledge(Nature) check to oversee an intercropping program; it could be used, however, to gain some special pertinent insight into such an activity with a different Knowledge check. Moreover, the intensely personal and usually highly complex and encoded fashion in which the insights are experienced by the Snoop require that a minimum of 5 minutes + 1 minute per 2 points of bonus be spent in relating specific conclusions, whether telepathically, empathically, physically or otherwise. This applies in particular to the Archivist's Dark Knowledge ability *For this purpose, an Intelligence check (not a skill check) and a Lore Check count as Knowledge checks, and are not subject to the rank or training requirement. Abilities which allow untrained skill uses or which grant simulated ranks in a skill for this purpose exclusively do not count towards ranks for this purpose. The Intergative Insight ability can be used to attain inner understanding as well as knowledge, but such things cannot be forced. The 3-day concentration use of the Integrative Insight ability is thus inapplicable to the learning of Secret Symbols (Quintessential Monk II). Languages: Common (or prevailing language), Snoop (a written script corresponding to the language prevalent in a given area but which is highly conducive to shorthand, editing and annotation) Bonus Languages: Any Favored Class: Academician (qv Black Company Campaign Setting) or Archivist in WOTC-nazi LA: ? (going for +0)
flaiquiri 06-22-07, 08:07 PM	About the knowledge skill boni, I'm thinking of making the number scale with the number of available knowledge skills given the profusion that can exist, putting it at 1/6 of the available rounded down if you include the PHB ones, Spirits and Psionics for 12 total types. To give approximately the same power level as this race "on normal setting" while adding Jordain Vizier, increase the factor applied to the basis value from 1/2 to 0.6. Also, perhaps their bonus languages should be restricted? If so, what sorts of languages should they get? I'm assuming that they should get Gnoll, Lupin, the academic languages if there are any, any form of visual or rhythmic language that is a complete language and not secret, and probably some dead languages if there are any. Maybe gnome too. To tone this down, I could restrict the signature ability to applying only to Intelligence ability checks and Lore checks. If it can fit, I would then like to add the ability to track by scent if the character has the Track feat.
Rustmonster 06-22-07, 08:28 PM	Favored Class: Academician (qv Black Company Campaign Setting) or Archivist in WOTC-nazi :eek: I'm assuming you like third party stuff better. Then why are you even playing a WoTC game?
flaiquiri 06-22-07, 09:14 PM	No; actually I think that WOTC's stuff is usually more creative, more professional and better-presented, with the exception of some homebrew stuff (although that might be because I don't have that much exposure outside WOTC). The greatest asset of WOTC's rigorous explication of the DND rule system is its extensibility, which allows 3rd parties like Green Ronin to create things like the Black Company Campaign Setting in the first place; I seriously doubt that they dislike Wizards stuff or the Wizards game, or that by extension those who prefer their stuff as one race's favored class dislike them. I would also ask why you post on these forums if you identify wanting to extend the game with non-WOTC material with not liking the game, which would of course contradict the enterprise of creating things to work for WOTC 3.5e DnD. In fact, liking 3rd party stuff better almost invariably presupposes that one plays a Wizards game; either that or they play a game which is so indebted to the Wizards game that 3rd-party material designed for it is compatible with it. Many times in forumness, verbosity accompanies nastiness. Please understand that in answering you in this long-winded fashion I am not trying to be mean but just to be complete. Please help me with my race if you get any ideas; thx ^-6 (hugs).
Neutronium_Dragon 06-23-07, 12:00 AM	I can't see the insight ability because I don't have javascript, but from looking at the other abilities, it's... kind of a mess. Don't try to throw all kinds of penalties onto a race on the assumption that it'll be a balancing factor. It doesn't work, and it gets even worse when it's done for the sake of hyper-specialization. Drop the penalties and reduce the bonuses to something more modest. For example, these: > +3 racial bonus to 2 knowledge skills of their choice > +4 racial bonus to Intelligence checks, not including untrained skill checks Should be dumped for a simple: Snoops gain a +1 bonus to Knowledge checks, Lore and Bardic Lore checks, and other Intelligence-based checks made to recall information.
flaiquiri 06-23-07, 12:14 AM	I'm really not attempting to balance anything; I'm open to the idea that +3 to knowledge is too much, but I really don't think that knowledge and intelligence checks are going to ruin anything. I'm really doing 2 things. First, I'm trying to make it clear that their minds are undisciplined, which is part of why they are so inquisitive. Second, I am trying to avert any powergaming that would result from the use of Keen Intellect, which is a feat that I kind of want them to be able to take because it could make them great trackers. The magnitude of the knowledge skill and int check boni is to balance the fact that I wanted a high-knowledge-skill race without it becoming too much of a skill monkey, keen intellect-cheater or wizard, for play and balance but really mostly for flavor. Also keep in mind that there is a +0 LA race in dragonlance that gets +2 int and a blanket +2 to all craft, knowledge or profession checks, which was part of the starting point for this race. But I decided that that was too boring and not in keeping with the intense nature of their intelligence. Also, it could easily be abused with the ability which you can't read which is in javascript. However, I am reducing the knowledge check boni to +2. Also, keep in mind that there are plenty of critters that get +4 to skill/ability checks: Dwarves (Earth Dwarves get +8), Goblins, Hadozee, Vanara. --------------------------------------------------------------- Also, here's the ability in full; I increased the denominator from 5 to 10 and restricted the knowledge check conditions to tone it down as a result of your post: Whenever a Snoop makes a trained Knowledge check, roll a d20. A result of 1 initiates a special series of Knowledge checks using skills in which she has at least a number of ranks equal to her HD +2, in the following manner.* 1. The Knowledge check which initiated the ability is designated the Final check. 2. The Basis Value, which can be any integer, is selected by the Snoop. The Insight Pool value is set to 0. It can never exceed the Basis Value (rounded up to the next lowest integer). 3. The Snoop makes a Knowledge check of a type of her choice which she has not already made during this use of the ability and which fits the above requirements. She is considered to be in a stressful situation for the purpose of this check. She receives a penalty on this check equal to 20 + the Basis Value (*1/2 if the final check is an untrained Intelligence check) * the number of times that step 2 has been performed during this use of the ability, including this time. She receives an insight bonus on this check equal to the current Insight Pool value. The result of this check, divided by 10 (or by 5 if the final check is an untrained Intelligence check) and rounded down to the next lowest integer, is added to the Insight Pool value. If the check result is 0 or less, continue to step 5. 4. The Snoop may choose to continue to step 5 or to return to step 3. 5. The Snoop makes the Final check with an insight bonus equal to the Insight Pool value. Once this ability has been used, it may not be used again for 2d4+10 days. This ability may alternately be triggered by 72 consecutive hours of uninterrupted contemplation or study, of which at least 54 hours are spent in contemplation or study and consisting of interruptions lasting no longer than 6 hours, subject to the same reuse limitation as evaluated from the end of the ability's use. This ability cannot be applied to Knowledge checks whose DCs measure consistency and scope over time, such as the use of Knowledge(Economics and Business) to start a business as enumerated in Quintessential Aristocrat or a Knowledge(Nature) check to oversee an intercropping program; it could be used, however, to gain some special pertinent insight into such an activity with a different Knowledge check. Moreover, the intensely personal and usually highly complex and encoded fashion in which the insights are experienced by the Snoop require that a minimum of 5 minutes + 2 minute per 5 points of bonus be spent in relating specific conclusions, whether telepathically, empathically, physically or otherwise. This applies in particular to the Archivist's Dark Knowledge ability *For this purpose, an Intelligence check (not a skill check) and a Lore Check count as Knowledge checks, and are not subject to the rank or training requirement. Abilities which allow untrained skill uses or which grant simulated ranks in a skill for this purpose exclusively do not count towards ranks for this purpose. ---------------------------- I DEFINITELY want to use this ability, perhaps slightly modified somehow in something specific to this race. Maybe it could be a feat? Or perhaps an Academician/Archivist substitution level? Or I could make this ability only apply to untrained intelligence checks and lore checks, possibly accompanied by an augmentation expanding its scope in the form of a feat or substitution level(s). If you have any other ideas, please tell me.