Question on Centaurs/Tauric Creatures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question on Centaurs/Tauric Creatures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jersey Cowboy
03-02-07, 07:33 AM I don't know if this one's been asked, but I had a question pertaining to centuars and other tauric creatures.

Why does a centaur use large weapons?

I know that a centaur (and most tauric creatures one might build using the template from Savage Species) is a large-sized creature, but the humanoid torso is generally a medium-sized humanoid. So, if the centaur's arms, body, and head are the same size as a human's, shouldn't they be wielding the same sized longsword?
CzarGarrett
03-02-07, 08:11 AM If you've ever swung a baseball bat, and analyzed the motions, you'd see that a lot of the energy used comes from the hips and legs.

Being that Centaurs have 4 heavily muscled legs from which to gain power and momentum, using medium weapons is just foolish.

At least, thats my take on it.
Charlie_PFC
03-02-07, 03:30 PM I can see the logic in both arguments, however in my campaign Centaurs use medium weapons.

I feel that as Centaurs qualify as being the equivilent of mounted (eg. a medium humanoid on a large mount) for the benefit of feats such as spirited charge and ride by attack, they should be equipped as such- with medium weapons.

just my 2cp.
kwanzaabot
03-02-07, 05:07 PM I'm rather fond of this Centaur, actually. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=582193

It's Large, but its human torso means that it wields Medium weapons. Maybe it'll be of use to you?
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-02-07, 10:37 PM Compare the diameter of the base of a horse's neck to your own waist. A human body sized appropriately for a centaur would stand between seven and eleven feet tall, easily Large size.
CaptainShar
03-02-07, 10:57 PM I'm currently playing a centaur who uses large-sized weapons; getting the 2d6 instead of 1d8 on a lance, and then charging with it, is quite powerful.

Just to give you an idea of what that can do:

I was using the feat Charging Smite (Player's Handbook II) to gain some bonuses to my Smite Evil while charging with my half-celestial centaur Paladin, ECL 15. I was doing 4d6 damage from the normal rules about lances and charging, alone. Let's just say that, with the +2d6 from it being a Holy Lance, and my hefty strength modifiers, and Smiting Evil, I dealt 57 points of damage to the evil demonic warlock I was fighting. He failed his massive damage Fortitude save. So, I took out a character of my same effective level in a single blow.

This little anecdote doesn't really say whether you should let centaurs use large weapons or not, but I hope it gives you some idea of the power that adds to the creature. If you deny them the use of large-sized weapons, consider dropping the level adjustment by one point. Because charging with the 4d6 lance is almost twice as good as charging with the 2d8 lance.
Cricket_God
03-03-07, 12:05 AM If you deny them the use of large-sized weapons, consider dropping the level adjustment by one point.

Because +8 strength, +4 dex, +4 con, +2 wis, +3 natural armor, 50ft base land speed, and dark vision with only a -2 to intelligence and 4 racial hd (which have full BAB and 2 good saves) to negate them isn't worth a +2 LA. Seriously, the minor loss of damage from the difference between a large and medium weapon isn't that big a deal (not enough to be worth dropping a point of LA anyway).

Now back on topic. I personally allow the centaur to wield large weapons, partially because I'm fairly new to DMing and that's the way the rules work as written, and partially because I don't like taking abilities away from players. If you want an excuse for why a centaur could wield a larger weapon than a normal human see +8 strength.
runestar
03-03-07, 12:12 AM They don't benefit from the 10ft reach, so I really don't anything wrong with letting them use large weapons. The damage increase is quite small.:)
paladin2019
03-03-07, 12:22 AM Realistically*, yes a centaur should use medium sized weapons. The penalties for using "wrong-sized" weapons is based on differences in grip size, not the mass of the weapon. EX: a small sized greatsword is statistically identical to a medium sized longsword, but a medium sized character suffers a -2 penalty to hit when using one because the grip is too small to use effectively. Yeah, okay.....:rolleyes: I envision centaurs as having human sized hands and arms and etc, so it makes sense that, realistically*, they should use medium-sized weapons.

But they are large sized creatures and the rules say large sized creatures use large sized weapons. I don't think its worth it to game play to add special caveats. KISS and leave them with large sized weapons.

*Yeah, like we can ever know what realistic means in relation to a fantasy creature. My favorite comment working Ruth Thompson's booth at RenFest was "I don't like it. It doesn't look like a REAL dragon." I wanted to ask, I really did, "Oh really? What's your frame of reference?"
Perseus_Stoned
03-03-07, 01:34 AM Realistically*, yes a centaur should use medium sized weapons. The penalties for using "wrong-sized" weapons is based on differences in grip size, not the mass of the weapon.

Funny, because thats the exact reason I can see centaurs using large-sized weapons. While they possess a humanoid upper-body, it not necessarily an entirely human body. They definitely have a bigger and stronger looking torso than most humans (note the bonuses to strength and constitution), so why shouldn't their hands and arms be bigger to more realistically fit these stat bonuses? Their average height is taller than humans (granted because of the horse legs), but that should help point out these aren't just humans stuck onto horse backs, they are different than both horses and humans (might be quite interesting to see a mad scientist's combination of a horse and a human... hey, they did owlbears!).

On a side-note your comment about Ruth was quite funny, I think people tend to take the game/fantasy too seriously (I know I do quite often) and dislike it when their subjective (as all fantasy is) viewpoint disagrees with someone else.
Kadasbrass
03-03-07, 03:06 AM The human torso of centuars is still going to be bigger then a medium human torso. Thats why they get larget weapons.
paladin2019
03-03-07, 03:09 AM But, but, but, you're all wrong, 'cause a real centaur only has a normal human sized torso, and if you think it's bigger just 'cause it's a large sized creature and that's why it should be able to wield large sized weapons then you're all just a bunch of doodie-heads who have no basis in reality.:D
Jersey Cowboy
03-04-07, 12:10 AM I'm rather fond of this Centaur, actually. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=582193

It's Large, but its human torso means that it wields Medium weapons. Maybe it'll be of use to you?

Thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jersey Cowboy 03-02-07, 07:33 AM	I don't know if this one's been asked, but I had a question pertaining to centuars and other tauric creatures. Why does a centaur use large weapons? I know that a centaur (and most tauric creatures one might build using the template from Savage Species) is a large-sized creature, but the humanoid torso is generally a medium-sized humanoid. So, if the centaur's arms, body, and head are the same size as a human's, shouldn't they be wielding the same sized longsword?
CzarGarrett 03-02-07, 08:11 AM	If you've ever swung a baseball bat, and analyzed the motions, you'd see that a lot of the energy used comes from the hips and legs. Being that Centaurs have 4 heavily muscled legs from which to gain power and momentum, using medium weapons is just foolish. At least, thats my take on it.
Charlie_PFC 03-02-07, 03:30 PM	I can see the logic in both arguments, however in my campaign Centaurs use medium weapons. I feel that as Centaurs qualify as being the equivilent of mounted (eg. a medium humanoid on a large mount) for the benefit of feats such as spirited charge and ride by attack, they should be equipped as such- with medium weapons. just my 2cp.
kwanzaabot 03-02-07, 05:07 PM	I'm rather fond of this Centaur, actually. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=582193 It's Large, but its human torso means that it wields Medium weapons. Maybe it'll be of use to you?
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-02-07, 10:37 PM	Compare the diameter of the base of a horse's neck to your own waist. A human body sized appropriately for a centaur would stand between seven and eleven feet tall, easily Large size.
CaptainShar 03-02-07, 10:57 PM	I'm currently playing a centaur who uses large-sized weapons; getting the 2d6 instead of 1d8 on a lance, and then charging with it, is quite powerful. Just to give you an idea of what that can do: I was using the feat Charging Smite (Player's Handbook II) to gain some bonuses to my Smite Evil while charging with my half-celestial centaur Paladin, ECL 15. I was doing 4d6 damage from the normal rules about lances and charging, alone. Let's just say that, with the +2d6 from it being a Holy Lance, and my hefty strength modifiers, and Smiting Evil, I dealt 57 points of damage to the evil demonic warlock I was fighting. He failed his massive damage Fortitude save. So, I took out a character of my same effective level in a single blow. This little anecdote doesn't really say whether you should let centaurs use large weapons or not, but I hope it gives you some idea of the power that adds to the creature. If you deny them the use of large-sized weapons, consider dropping the level adjustment by one point. Because charging with the 4d6 lance is almost twice as good as charging with the 2d8 lance.
Cricket_God 03-03-07, 12:05 AM	If you deny them the use of large-sized weapons, consider dropping the level adjustment by one point. Because +8 strength, +4 dex, +4 con, +2 wis, +3 natural armor, 50ft base land speed, and dark vision with only a -2 to intelligence and 4 racial hd (which have full BAB and 2 good saves) to negate them isn't worth a +2 LA. Seriously, the minor loss of damage from the difference between a large and medium weapon isn't that big a deal (not enough to be worth dropping a point of LA anyway). Now back on topic. I personally allow the centaur to wield large weapons, partially because I'm fairly new to DMing and that's the way the rules work as written, and partially because I don't like taking abilities away from players. If you want an excuse for why a centaur could wield a larger weapon than a normal human see +8 strength.
runestar 03-03-07, 12:12 AM	They don't benefit from the 10ft reach, so I really don't anything wrong with letting them use large weapons. The damage increase is quite small.:)
paladin2019 03-03-07, 12:22 AM	Realistically, yes a centaur should use medium sized weapons. The penalties for using "wrong-sized" weapons is based on differences in grip size, not the mass of the weapon. EX: a small sized greatsword is statistically identical to a medium sized longsword, but a medium sized character suffers a -2 penalty to hit when using one because the grip is too small to use effectively. Yeah, okay.....:rolleyes: I envision centaurs as having human sized hands and arms and etc, so it makes sense that, realistically, they should use medium-sized weapons. But they are large sized creatures and the rules say large sized creatures use large sized weapons. I don't think its worth it to game play to add special caveats. KISS and leave them with large sized weapons. *Yeah, like we can ever know what realistic means in relation to a fantasy creature. My favorite comment working Ruth Thompson's booth at RenFest was "I don't like it. It doesn't look like a REAL dragon." I wanted to ask, I really did, "Oh really? What's your frame of reference?"
Perseus_Stoned 03-03-07, 01:34 AM	Realistically*, yes a centaur should use medium sized weapons. The penalties for using "wrong-sized" weapons is based on differences in grip size, not the mass of the weapon. Funny, because thats the exact reason I can see centaurs using large-sized weapons. While they possess a humanoid upper-body, it not necessarily an entirely human body. They definitely have a bigger and stronger looking torso than most humans (note the bonuses to strength and constitution), so why shouldn't their hands and arms be bigger to more realistically fit these stat bonuses? Their average height is taller than humans (granted because of the horse legs), but that should help point out these aren't just humans stuck onto horse backs, they are different than both horses and humans (might be quite interesting to see a mad scientist's combination of a horse and a human... hey, they did owlbears!). On a side-note your comment about Ruth was quite funny, I think people tend to take the game/fantasy too seriously (I know I do quite often) and dislike it when their subjective (as all fantasy is) viewpoint disagrees with someone else.
Kadasbrass 03-03-07, 03:06 AM	The human torso of centuars is still going to be bigger then a medium human torso. Thats why they get larget weapons.
paladin2019 03-03-07, 03:09 AM	But, but, but, you're all wrong, 'cause a real centaur only has a normal human sized torso, and if you think it's bigger just 'cause it's a large sized creature and that's why it should be able to wield large sized weapons then you're all just a bunch of doodie-heads who have no basis in reality.:D
Jersey Cowboy 03-04-07, 12:10 AM	I'm rather fond of this Centaur, actually. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=582193 It's Large, but its human torso means that it wields Medium weapons. Maybe it'll be of use to you? Thanks!