Race Building Assistance Request [Archive] - Wizards Community

Race Building Assistance Request [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Taninger
03-29-07, 05:59 PM Hello all.

My group is just about to start a new campaign, which I've got the fortune of DMing. I'd like to try and set it in a homebrew world (As I'm too poor to want to go buy a bunch of supplements if I can help it). However, one thing that I've noticed is that almost all of our games rely quite heavily on the standard races and stereotypes of D&D... and I'd like to try breaking a few. None of my players come to the boards, really, so I was hoping to post a few rough ideas of races to get some feedback, so that the next time my players run into, say, a Minotaur, it has some new abilities, or some altered ones, and they can't Metagame as much as they usually do.

The goal is to have a wide variety of races, each with no LA (or very little, if possible), and no automatic hit dice that they'd have to take to be able to play as one.

As an aside, I'm also trying to make it so that any race *can* fill any role without crippling yourself (a la the Half-Orc Arcane caster, generally).

Humans I'd like to leave largely alone, but because most of the other races have been a bit more powerful than usual, I'm adding on a +1 bonus to any stat (representing years of honing talent in any one area, or intensive study that is common among human society), and the ability to start with 3 + Intelligence mod. languages. This is more important in a setting without common, like mine.

Dwarves (Svoltheimers and Ulrachmen) are certainly fairly different. They're the scourge of land and sea, a group of viking-esque raiders that both pillage and trade, depending on the particular tribe.
+2 Dex and Con, -2 Wis and Cha. Dwarves are physically quite capable, but impatient and wild.
+3 inherent bonus on saves against spells, -1 on caster level checks. Dwarves are grounded in the material plane, and as such have both a resistance to magic, and some difficulty wielding it effectively.
+2 morale bonus on saves against fear. They're wild folk that don't so much as know the meaning of fear... most of the time.
Stability, having to keep their feet on boats on the choppy waves have taught Dwarves how to ground themselves well and keep from falling about.
Low Light Vision, as the years of night raids build up their ability to see in the dark.
+2 on Climb, Jump, Balance, Search, and Swim checks. These skills are an essential part of the Dwarven lifestyle, and they ingrain them in their young at the first opportunity.

The Elves (Endlest) are the race I've had the most difficulty with. The idea I've had is that in being close to magic naturally, they're also more easily affected by it. They're a very strict people, and largely xenophobic. They, like the Dwarves, do trade with others... but on a far smaller scale. Of late, more Elves have been "corrupted" by the small influences of human culture, and left thier homeland and forsaken their ways... to the point that some "traditional" Elves have begun this process as well.
-2 Str and Con, but +2 to Int, Wis, and Cha. Elves are frail, but they take the time to hone their minds to a razor's edge.
-2 on saves against spells, Elves are unable to protect themselves well against the magic forces that are such a close part of them, but this also gives them a +2 bonus on saves against enchantments (totaling to no modifier), because they have control over their own inner flow of Mana.
+2 on Spot, Search, and Sense Motive, with +1 to Appraise checks. (They get a further +2 when looking for secret doors.) Elves have keen senses, and are discerning of quality.
Know Direction 1/day, Prestidigitation 1/day. Elves have some small innate spellcasting ability.

Of all the races, the Elves are the hardest for me. I've tried to either give them a bonus to their caster level, or drop one of the stat penalties, or give them a slowly progressing form of innate counterspelling... but I'm really not sure what to do. My main issue is in wanting them to be able to fill any role, like I said earlier. Even the Dwarves can pull off Magic in addition to fighting and sneaking (though not well, and generally not Divine), but the Elves don't seem to have a strength outside of it.

As such, I submit these fellows to you for review. Please tell me what you think, and I'll take a look at any suggestions you may have. I do have more races (about 10), but I'll wait until I've gotten some feedback on these before moving on into less and less familiar territory.

Thank you very much for your time.
StalkerEntreri
03-29-07, 06:05 PM Well you said you didn't want to shoehorn any of the races into a specific role; but you gave the Elves -2 to two physical abilities and +2 to 3 mental abilities; pretty shoved into the role of a spellcaster if you ask me

What you could do is give a -2 to any physical abilities score; and then a +2 to any mental; still leaving open the chance for a fighter; but still good at what they're innate to do : Magic
Taninger
03-29-07, 06:07 PM Which was the problem I have with them as they stand for me. I want them to be able to be more powerful in terms of spells, but as that's currently the only way I've found... I'm posting them mainly to try and find another, that won't cripple them for being able to do anything else.

I apologize for not having been clear there earlier.
StalkerEntreri
03-29-07, 06:15 PM Well; you could give them the standard Martial proficiency feats, which would give them a bonus to being a wizard/sorcerer like before in the fact that they can use better weapons, maybe using their magic to make them a better melee fighter, like being a Duskblade.

What I would suggest is giving them a choice of :
+2 INT, WIS, or CHA and then -2 STR, DEX, or CON
Taninger
03-29-07, 09:09 PM Alright then, that does sound fairly reasonable. Adding back in the standard proficiencies will benefit them all around... as would having easier access to the elven weapons (from Races of the Wild), so making those only Martial Weapons for Elves would be another advantage to them.

In terms of the stats, I'm not sure about having that much spread. I was considering -2 Str, +2 Wis and Cha, as the Elves here are more in tune with nature than anything else, but the idea of it being either -2 Str, +2 two mental, or -2 Con, +2 to one mental, would be interesting. Of course, it's possible that -2 Con would cover two plusses, in this case, with their penalty on saves vs. spells.

Thank you very much Stalker, I'm sure that'll make my players much more able to play Elves, which is the whole point for me (we're usually an all-human group).

Thank you very much for the feedback.

To carry on with adding to the races here, I'll add another few of mine.

Goblins and Gobrocs have a similar nature, both are small and skilled at making traps. The descendents of Trolls and Orks (don't think too hard), the two races are really two subspecies of the overall Gob race. However, depending on the prevelance of Orkin or Troll blood, the innate nature of the Gob changes, and they are raised in different ways. Goblins are smaller, wilier, and even hardier than Gobrocs, though they are weaker. Goblins defy evolution, using group tactics, traps, and carefully constructed lairs to protect themselves, as opposed to brute force. When this force is called for, the Gobroc gets a turn. Gobrocs are larger than Goblins, with a great deal more natural strength. On the flip side, they aren't as clever, and their dull minds can be tricked quite easily. They do the more physical side of combat when the two work together, which is fairly common.

Goblins
-2 Str and Charisma, +2 Dex, Con, and Int. Goblins are cunning, hardy, and nimble, but they lack much actual strength.
30 ft. base speed despite being small.
Group Tactics. When a Goblin aids another, or flanks a target with another Goblin, they add +1 to the bonus conferred upon their ally.
Darkvision 60 ft., from being primarily subterrainian.
+2 on saves vs. poison, Goblins often share their homes with giant scorpions, and have developed a resistance to poisons of all sorts.
+2 on Move Silently, Listen, Hide, Knowledge (Architecture), Proffesion (Miner), and Craft (Trapmaking), in addition to the Effective Miner ability (a la the Kobold). Goblins are crafty, and are trained to carry on their sneaky heritage.

Gobrocs
+2 Str, -2 (Int/Wis) and Cha. Gobrocs are strong, but not as crafty as their cousins.
30 ft. base speed despite small size, again. Gobs are speedy folk.
Powerful build, Gobrocs are on the border between being small and Medium, and as such can wield Medium equipment without penalty.
Group Tactics, similar training leads to similar results in both races.
Darkvision 60 ft.
+2 Move Silently, and Listen. +1 to Craft (trapmaking). Gobroc studies are not so advanced as Goblin ones, but they still pick up some basics.
+2 on saves against poison... for the same reasons.

As you can see, the two races are similar, but a bit differnt at their core. Gobrocs make especially good fighters, as they get the benefits of being small without any penalties... which is making me consider Making them Medium, but with a Diminutive build ability that'd let them fit unobstructed in smaller Gob corridors.

I hope they're both balanced, and I await any comments with joy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taninger 03-29-07, 05:59 PM	Hello all. My group is just about to start a new campaign, which I've got the fortune of DMing. I'd like to try and set it in a homebrew world (As I'm too poor to want to go buy a bunch of supplements if I can help it). However, one thing that I've noticed is that almost all of our games rely quite heavily on the standard races and stereotypes of D&D... and I'd like to try breaking a few. None of my players come to the boards, really, so I was hoping to post a few rough ideas of races to get some feedback, so that the next time my players run into, say, a Minotaur, it has some new abilities, or some altered ones, and they can't Metagame as much as they usually do. The goal is to have a wide variety of races, each with no LA (or very little, if possible), and no automatic hit dice that they'd have to take to be able to play as one. As an aside, I'm also trying to make it so that any race can fill any role without crippling yourself (a la the Half-Orc Arcane caster, generally). Humans I'd like to leave largely alone, but because most of the other races have been a bit more powerful than usual, I'm adding on a +1 bonus to any stat (representing years of honing talent in any one area, or intensive study that is common among human society), and the ability to start with 3 + Intelligence mod. languages. This is more important in a setting without common, like mine. Dwarves (Svoltheimers and Ulrachmen) are certainly fairly different. They're the scourge of land and sea, a group of viking-esque raiders that both pillage and trade, depending on the particular tribe. +2 Dex and Con, -2 Wis and Cha. Dwarves are physically quite capable, but impatient and wild. +3 inherent bonus on saves against spells, -1 on caster level checks. Dwarves are grounded in the material plane, and as such have both a resistance to magic, and some difficulty wielding it effectively. +2 morale bonus on saves against fear. They're wild folk that don't so much as know the meaning of fear... most of the time. Stability, having to keep their feet on boats on the choppy waves have taught Dwarves how to ground themselves well and keep from falling about. Low Light Vision, as the years of night raids build up their ability to see in the dark. +2 on Climb, Jump, Balance, Search, and Swim checks. These skills are an essential part of the Dwarven lifestyle, and they ingrain them in their young at the first opportunity. The Elves (Endlest) are the race I've had the most difficulty with. The idea I've had is that in being close to magic naturally, they're also more easily affected by it. They're a very strict people, and largely xenophobic. They, like the Dwarves, do trade with others... but on a far smaller scale. Of late, more Elves have been "corrupted" by the small influences of human culture, and left thier homeland and forsaken their ways... to the point that some "traditional" Elves have begun this process as well. -2 Str and Con, but +2 to Int, Wis, and Cha. Elves are frail, but they take the time to hone their minds to a razor's edge. -2 on saves against spells, Elves are unable to protect themselves well against the magic forces that are such a close part of them, but this also gives them a +2 bonus on saves against enchantments (totaling to no modifier), because they have control over their own inner flow of Mana. +2 on Spot, Search, and Sense Motive, with +1 to Appraise checks. (They get a further +2 when looking for secret doors.) Elves have keen senses, and are discerning of quality. Know Direction 1/day, Prestidigitation 1/day. Elves have some small innate spellcasting ability. Of all the races, the Elves are the hardest for me. I've tried to either give them a bonus to their caster level, or drop one of the stat penalties, or give them a slowly progressing form of innate counterspelling... but I'm really not sure what to do. My main issue is in wanting them to be able to fill any role, like I said earlier. Even the Dwarves can pull off Magic in addition to fighting and sneaking (though not well, and generally not Divine), but the Elves don't seem to have a strength outside of it. As such, I submit these fellows to you for review. Please tell me what you think, and I'll take a look at any suggestions you may have. I do have more races (about 10), but I'll wait until I've gotten some feedback on these before moving on into less and less familiar territory. Thank you very much for your time.
StalkerEntreri 03-29-07, 06:05 PM	Well you said you didn't want to shoehorn any of the races into a specific role; but you gave the Elves -2 to two physical abilities and +2 to 3 mental abilities; pretty shoved into the role of a spellcaster if you ask me What you could do is give a -2 to any physical abilities score; and then a +2 to any mental; still leaving open the chance for a fighter; but still good at what they're innate to do : Magic
Taninger 03-29-07, 06:07 PM	Which was the problem I have with them as they stand for me. I want them to be able to be more powerful in terms of spells, but as that's currently the only way I've found... I'm posting them mainly to try and find another, that won't cripple them for being able to do anything else. I apologize for not having been clear there earlier.
StalkerEntreri 03-29-07, 06:15 PM	Well; you could give them the standard Martial proficiency feats, which would give them a bonus to being a wizard/sorcerer like before in the fact that they can use better weapons, maybe using their magic to make them a better melee fighter, like being a Duskblade. What I would suggest is giving them a choice of : +2 INT, WIS, or CHA and then -2 STR, DEX, or CON
Taninger 03-29-07, 09:09 PM	Alright then, that does sound fairly reasonable. Adding back in the standard proficiencies will benefit them all around... as would having easier access to the elven weapons (from Races of the Wild), so making those only Martial Weapons for Elves would be another advantage to them. In terms of the stats, I'm not sure about having that much spread. I was considering -2 Str, +2 Wis and Cha, as the Elves here are more in tune with nature than anything else, but the idea of it being either -2 Str, +2 two mental, or -2 Con, +2 to one mental, would be interesting. Of course, it's possible that -2 Con would cover two plusses, in this case, with their penalty on saves vs. spells. Thank you very much Stalker, I'm sure that'll make my players much more able to play Elves, which is the whole point for me (we're usually an all-human group). Thank you very much for the feedback. To carry on with adding to the races here, I'll add another few of mine. Goblins and Gobrocs have a similar nature, both are small and skilled at making traps. The descendents of Trolls and Orks (don't think too hard), the two races are really two subspecies of the overall Gob race. However, depending on the prevelance of Orkin or Troll blood, the innate nature of the Gob changes, and they are raised in different ways. Goblins are smaller, wilier, and even hardier than Gobrocs, though they are weaker. Goblins defy evolution, using group tactics, traps, and carefully constructed lairs to protect themselves, as opposed to brute force. When this force is called for, the Gobroc gets a turn. Gobrocs are larger than Goblins, with a great deal more natural strength. On the flip side, they aren't as clever, and their dull minds can be tricked quite easily. They do the more physical side of combat when the two work together, which is fairly common. Goblins -2 Str and Charisma, +2 Dex, Con, and Int. Goblins are cunning, hardy, and nimble, but they lack much actual strength. 30 ft. base speed despite being small. Group Tactics. When a Goblin aids another, or flanks a target with another Goblin, they add +1 to the bonus conferred upon their ally. Darkvision 60 ft., from being primarily subterrainian. +2 on saves vs. poison, Goblins often share their homes with giant scorpions, and have developed a resistance to poisons of all sorts. +2 on Move Silently, Listen, Hide, Knowledge (Architecture), Proffesion (Miner), and Craft (Trapmaking), in addition to the Effective Miner ability (a la the Kobold). Goblins are crafty, and are trained to carry on their sneaky heritage. Gobrocs +2 Str, -2 (Int/Wis) and Cha. Gobrocs are strong, but not as crafty as their cousins. 30 ft. base speed despite small size, again. Gobs are speedy folk. Powerful build, Gobrocs are on the border between being small and Medium, and as such can wield Medium equipment without penalty. Group Tactics, similar training leads to similar results in both races. Darkvision 60 ft. +2 Move Silently, and Listen. +1 to Craft (trapmaking). Gobroc studies are not so advanced as Goblin ones, but they still pick up some basics. +2 on saves against poison... for the same reasons. As you can see, the two races are similar, but a bit differnt at their core. Gobrocs make especially good fighters, as they get the benefits of being small without any penalties... which is making me consider Making them Medium, but with a Diminutive build ability that'd let them fit unobstructed in smaller Gob corridors. I hope they're both balanced, and I await any comments with joy.