Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xaer 06-23-07, 02:25 PM	Any idea on how much extra limbs are worth in level adjustment?(Example race: Thri-kreen with 4 arms)
Rerecros 06-23-07, 02:49 PM	pretty much one LA on their own. If they can't use weapons/sheilds they cost less.
Xaer 06-23-07, 02:55 PM	Thanks!
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-24-07, 02:09 PM	Woah, slow down there. There's no such thing as exact level adjustment for single abilities. Abilities stack, overlap, and interact in ways that make it impossible to simply tack numbers onto them (though we've seen some very earnest efforts on this board). Templates are a special case, as they are packages of abilities, and they tend to use the worst-case level adjustment (half-dragon bard, anyone?) In this example, you're simply stating "extra limbs". You have failed to describe how many limbs, each extra limb grants another attack of its own. This could also be affected by the race's Strength and Dexterity modifiers, both of which change the effectiveness of every single limb. The limbs may or may not grant natural attacks. The race could have a limitation of only being able to hold light weapons with the limb, thus reducing the impact of the race's Strength modifier. There are innumberable ways that the race's power could be altered by interaction of traits. Why not just post the entire race and then ask for a level adjustment?
Rerecros 06-24-07, 02:22 PM	Agreed, I just gave you an oversimplified estimate.
ragoftag 06-24-07, 06:34 PM	Extra limbs can go both ways, as being able to melee with one set and cast spells with different set is very powerful. Base the 'value' off how the limbs (or any other feature) actually modify the character. Wings that are decorative, aid jumping, allow limited flight,...allow you to embarrass Djinn, are all of differing use, and therefore, value. I'm still slow cooking (pun) an 'octopus' race that learns to use (coordinate) more limbs as they mature. I'll likely follow the Raptorian path, with better use as they level, or create some racial levels. My first pass through these minefields yielded a lot of ideas, but I really want to beat them into +0 status. I gave them swim and climb speed at first, but each is very unbalancing, so I dropped them to bonuses to those (extra movement for swimming, bonuses for climbing) based on how the extra arms are used. Extra mechanics were suggested, but reducing to bonuses makes it much simpler. I ran my first take through several 'level' systems, with +1 to +2 results. Now, I might bring them back to a front burner for a rework.
Dragonprime 06-24-07, 07:21 PM	It really depends. Can a weapon be wielded in every limb without penalty? If there are penalties, what are they? And what about shields? Are climbing bonuses given because of the extra limbs? The list of factors that could change the amount of LA goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. If you make a race with multiple limbs, choose an LA that you think is an appropriate (guess if you have to), post it here, and let people review it.