Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Otto the Bugbear 11-24-07, 10:06 PM	Hey all. I've got an idea for races the next time I start up a campaign and I wanted to get feedback on what I've done so far. I chose to post here instead of on Wizards.com due to their unfortunate claim to co-ownership of everything posted on their boards. Before getting started, I have a few explanations to make. Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype): I got a little tired of favored enemy humanoid (orc) or humanoid (elf), so I wanted to cut the list down a little bit. That sort of evolved into three subtypes of humanoids; terrestrial being land-bound humanoids (humans, elves, orcs, etc.), aerial being flying humanoids (raptorians, winged elves, etc.), and aquatic being, well, aquatic (sea elves, etc.) Favored Classes: A long time ago -- fall of 2000 -- I dumped the Favored Class rule and the EXP penalty. Then, late last year, I came up with an idea to re-implement favored class, but make it a bonus instead of a penalty. (Players always like to see bonuses more than penalties). What you see here is the result of that change. So far, it's worked great, so it won't be changing. Racial Traits: These are the basic building blocks of the race; size, ability bonus, ability penalty, speed, favored classes, languages. And that's it. The other stuff is all covered under Racial Advancement. Racial Advancement: There was talk on the 4ed boards about advancing racial features. I'm interested to see how they do it (soon with the preview book), but in the meantime I wrote this up. It's pretty straight forward in application, so I'm pretty much looking for problem areas with the listed options. The intent is that each option can be chosen only once, and only through 9th level. I'd like to get some more later on, but for right now each race just has five options. Fluff: I ommited the fluff, as I'd rather not post it here. Since I'm just looking for input on the mechanical aspects, that's all that is really needed to post. No Small Races: My 12 year old nephew would tower over the small PHB races, weigh more than them, and is likely stronger. The gnome and halfling both suffer from being equivalent to about an 8 year old human. No thanks. Spellcasting and Dump Stats: I'm using my spellcasting rewrite, found here (dsenchuk.googlepages.com/spellcasting). This makes dump stats a little harder to abuse, and brings caster power down just a little bit. Human Humans Racial Traits: Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Human base land speed is 30 feet. 1 extra feat at 1st level. 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level. Automatic Language: Common. Favored Class: Any one. A multi-class human counts any one class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement - Adaptable: Beginning at 3rd level, and each odd level after that (5th level, 7th level, and so forth), a human character may choose one racial advancement trait from any other race. Not much to say about humans, really. Dwarf Dwarf Racial Traits: All dwarves have the following racial abilities. Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. +2 racial bonus to Constitution: Dwarves are a very hearty folk. –2 Dexterity: Dwarves have short, stocky bodies, and are less dextrous. Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark. Like all creatures with darkvision, everything appears black-and-white, thus they suffer a -2 to spot and search checks in the dark. Base Land Speed – 20 ft.: Dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations). Automatic Languages: Dwarven. Favored Classes: Fighter or Cleric. A multi-class dwarf with at least one level of cleric or fighter (choose one) counts that class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement - Born of the Mountain: At each odd level, a dwarven character may choose one of the following traits. A typical dwarf character chooses from this list, though a DM may agree to allow some unique dwarves, such as Player Characters, to choose other traits. Stability: All dwarves gain a +4 to resist being tripped or bull rushed. Industrious: Dwarves gain a +2 to craft (stonework), craft (armor & weapons), and appraise checks related to stone or armor items. Poison Resistant: Dwarves gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against poison. Unyielding Form: Dwarves gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against Transmutation spells and effects. Stonecunning: Dwarves automatically make spot check to notice unusual stonework, such as traps, sliding panels, trapdoors, or pits. Dwarves don't change much; they just lose some of that pseudo-favored-enemy schtick they had. The Cha penalty being changed is mainly because, no matter what, every single dwarf character I've ever seen has a very strong force of personality. Also, the short, stocky bodies really kinda point to a reduced Dexterity. Elf Elf Racial Traits: All elves have the following racial traits. Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. +2 racial bonus to Dexterity: Elves are nimble and dexterous -2 penalty to Wisdom: Elves are flighty and free-spirited. Low-Light Vision: Elves can see clearly in shadowy areas. Base Land Speed – 30 ft. Automatic Languages: Elfin Favored Classes: Sorcerer or Wizard. A multi-class elf with at least one level of sorcerer or wizard (choose one) counts that class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement – Arboreal Caretakers: At each odd level, an elfin character may choose one of the following traits. A typical elf character chooses from this list, though a DM may agree to allow some unique elves, such as Player Characters, to choose other traits. Weapon Familiarity: Elves can use the short bow, javelin, hand axe, and short spear without penalty. Grounded: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects. Lifewell: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Paralysis spells and effects. Ever Alert: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks. Awareness: Elves may automatically make active Spot checks as a Swift action, instead of a move action. No more Constitution penalty; Yay! Ok, these are not Tolkien uber-elf race. The Wisdom penalty is more representative of the frivolous and fey nature of elves. Orc Orc Racial Traits: Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, Orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. +2 racial bonus to Strength: Orcs are known for their Strength -2 penalty to Intelligence: Orcs are not very bright. Base land speed – 30 ft. Darkvision: Orcs can see in the dark. Like all creatures with darkvision, everything appears black-and-white, thus they suffer a -2 to spot and search checks in the dark. Automatic Languages: Orcish. Favored Class: Druid or Ranger. A multi-class orc with at least one level of Druid or Ranger (choose one) counts that class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement – Living on the Fringes: At each odd level, an orcish character may choose one of the following traits. A typical orc character chooses from this list, though a DM may agree to allow some unique orcs, such as Player Characters, to choose other traits. Weapon Familiarity: Orcs can use the hand axe, short spear, javelin, and great axe without penalty. Mistrustful: Orcs receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Illusion spells and effects. Feral Survival: Orcs receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Survival checks. Iron Gut: Orcs gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against poison and disease. Environmental Adaptation: Orcs gain a +2 racial bonus to endure extremely hot or extremely cold temperatures. Mostly, I wanted to make a LA+0 Orc race that doesn't get hit with the nerf stick just because it's ugly. Ugliness is a really ****-poor reason to gimp an otherwise playable race. They now look more like a half-orc, but that's ok since I'm dropping half-orcs anyway. Hobgoblin Hobgoblin Racial Traits: Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, Hobgoblins have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. +2 racial bonus to Dexterity: Despite their bulk, Hobgoblins are quite dexterous. -2 penalty to Wisdom: Hobgoblins tend not to question others or think before following orders. Base land speed – 30 ft. Low Light Vision: Hobgoblins can see clearly in shadowy areas. Automatic Languages: Goblin Favored Class: Fighter or Rogue. A multi-class hobgoblin with at least one level of Fighter or Rogue (choose one) counts that class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement – Militaristic Society: At each odd level, a hobgoblin character may choose one of the following traits. A typical hobgoblin character chooses from this list, though a DM may agree to allow some unique hobgoblins, such as Player Characters, to choose other traits. Weapon Familiarity: Hobgoblins can use the short sword, long sword, and short bow without penalty. Toughened: Hobgoblins receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Evocation spells or effects with an energy descriptor (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic). Intense Training: Hobgoblins gain a +3 synergy bonus to skills, instead of the normal +2 Skill Knack: Hobgoblins gain a +2 racial bonus to Move Silently and Ride checks. My Ally is my Strength: Hobgoblins impart a +3 bonus whenever they use the Assist Other option to increase an ally’s To Hit roll, Armor Class, or Skill Checks. Much like the Orc, though not as bad off, these guys needed a little love. Komodite Komodite (Komodites are renamed, and rebuilt to LA +0, lizardmen) Racial Traits: Humanoid type (terrestrial subtype) Medium: As Medium creatures, Komodites have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. +2 racial bonus to Constitution: Komodites’ reptilian physiology makes them quite hearty. -2 penalty to Charisma: Komodites have trouble relating to other people, even their own kind. Base land speed – 30 ft. Low Light Vision: Komodites can see clearly in shadowy areas. Automatic Languages: Komodite Favored Class: Barbarian or Ranger. A multi-class komodite with at least one level of Barbarian or Ranger (choose one) counts that class as one level higher when determining class abilities, excluding hit dice, base attack bonus, hit points, base saves, skill points, skill ranks, and spellcasting. Racial Advancement – Reptilian Heritage: At each odd level, a komodite character may choose one of the following traits. A typical komodite character chooses from this list, though a DM may agree to allow some unique komodites, such as Player Characters, to choose other traits. Cold Blooded: A komodite that is subjected to fire damage of at least 3 hit points per hit die gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC, a +1 dodge bonus to Reflex saves, and may make one extra attack during a full attack action for 1 round. (This effect does not stack with haste or other effects similar to haste.) Reptilian Physiology*: Komodites have a tail that grants them a +2 racial bonus on Balance check. They have claws that grant them a +2 racial bonus on Climb checks. They have some control over the appearance of their scaly skin (similar to a chameleon), granting them a +2 racial bonus on Hide checks. Because of their strange appearance and mannerisms, they suffer a -2 penalty on Diplomacy checks. Natural Swimmer: Komodites gain a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks, may take 10 when swimming, and they may hold their breath for 4x their Constitution score in rounds. Bite Attack**: Komodites have sharp teeth, and they may make a secondary bite attack, but at a -5 penalty from their normal attack bonus. This bite attack deals 1d6 points of damage, plus ½ their Strength modifier. Deep Reserves: A komodite gains a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against Necromancy spells and effects. *Humans do not gain the +2 racial bonus to Balance checks if they choose this trait. ** Humans may not choose this trait. Basically, lizardmen made into a LA+0 race. Even though this one was the most radical change, it wasn't as hard as the Hobgoblin at making up new items. I figure I could still add more options later on. Stuff like '+4 AC v. giants', 'immunity to sleep spells and effect' and '+1 to hit elves' and other such stuff later on. So that's it, I'm open to virtually all suggestions. Cheers Otto :) Open Game Content Material in this post uses the Open Gaming License. Open Game Content on this post is copyright 2007 by Donald Senchuk.
Qwicksilver 11-27-07, 04:26 AM	Wow 0 replies? Wierd. I think they're all pretty fine adaptations. Interesting changes overall. Also, the racial advancement traits reminds me of a similar idea that I had, where players would have to choose which particular racial traits they would get. However, that choice for me only came at character creation, but I thought it would help players start to differentiate their characters within their race. Specific things: Kodomite's +2 Con -2 Cha seems like a very advantageous tradeoff for a very large number of classes. I have mentioned before that I feel that Con is the most important attribute by virtue of its being needed by all classes. Very few classes would like to dump con, but several classes do not need Cha. Unlike con, which is important for hp and fort saves, cha is only important for a handful of skills as well as the casting abilities of the sorcerer and bard. I would question whether or not this should be changed. (edit: oh i forgot you're probably using this with your new magic system. You should always post a disclaimer about that because your new magic system would balance this out a bit.) I like how you changed the Dwarven bonus against all spells/spell-like effects to just being transmutation effects. I personally always thought that, if anything, Elves should gain resistance to spells (since they're well known in dabbling with magic) and Dwarves would get resistance to enchantment due to their strong wills. Does the cold-blooded ability stack: ie. If i get hit by multiple fire sources, do i therefore get multiple dodge bonuses and attacks for that 1 round? I have forgotten what the rules for dodge bonuses from the same source stacking are. As I understand, no bonus from the same source stacks, but I am not sure in this case. The extra attack does not mention that it's at the highest BAB (although I just assumed). Oh also, why no half-elves? Lastly, I read your no small races thing. But not even your "Elijah Wood" 4'6" small races?:P
Otto the Bugbear 11-27-07, 07:22 AM	Yeah, 20+ views, 0 replies. Strange. I did have trouble trying to decide what the Komodite was going to get for ability adjustments. I figured Con was the most likely, and really didn't want to do Str as the Orc already had that for the fugly races. Then again, I toyed with the idea of no adjustments at all, mirroring the human stats. Yes, I am using this with my spellcasting rewrite; I'll add a little disclaimer. That makes the Cha dump a little harder to stomach. The Cold Blooded ability doesn't stack to provide greater benefits, but if the Komodite gets hit with several different fire attack, and the total damage exceeds 3 h.p./level, then it kicks in. So, a 3rd level Komodite gets hit for 8 fire damage; no Cold Blooded boost. next round he gets hit for 9 fire damage; he gains Cold Blooded boosts. next round he gets hit for 2, 4, and 4 fire damage, he gains Cold Blooded boosts after the last damage is taken. Of course, he has to suffer the damage to get the benefits, so saves, fire resistance/protection, or evasion may negate or reduce the damage too far. In those cases, he wouldn't get the Cold Blooded bonuses.
Conchobaer 11-29-07, 05:32 PM	Hello, I have idled away many hours working on re-working races before, but never this much. While I enjoy the idea of not making orcs unsociable and keeping elves from being nerfed, I find the idea of the racial advancements. The original idea is that an adventurer does not leave their society before adulthood and would therefore have these skills from growing up in the society. But if they are out adventuring in the wild woods, a dwarf is not going to learn about spelunking. Also, the idea of human 'adapting' sounds like a strange evolution to me. Not that this is a criticism of you, I also have an issue with the fourth edition changes in general. Although I have no issue with changing attribute bonuses as I see those as genetic bonuses. Signed, Conchobaer
JackSnape 11-29-07, 08:29 PM	Overall I like it, I especially like the new lizardfolk, in fact I REALLY like the cold blooded idea. Some of the stuff doesn't seem to balance (ie lizardfolk natural weapons and physiology are more powerful than dwarven +2 to saves vs poison) You might improve/reduce some of these penalties. Another option would be making some advancements not available at level 1. I'm also not sure about the way you've done favored classes (tho I'm really not a fan either) It seems that 1 level for some classes wouldn't help much (ranger comes to mind) while adding 1 level to a druid or wizard could help a PC a lot. PS I think of the small races as being the size of my 5 year old about 3 foot and 40 lb isn't really that threatening
Otto the Bugbear 11-29-07, 09:20 PM	Hello, I have idled away many hours working on re-working races before, but never this much. While I enjoy the idea of not making orcs unsociable and keeping elves from being nerfed, I find the idea of the racial advancements. The original idea is that an adventurer does not leave their society before adulthood and would therefore have these skills from growing up in the society. But if they are out adventuring in the wild woods, a dwarf is not going to learn about spelunking. Also, the idea of human 'adapting' sounds like a strange evolution to me. Not that this is a criticism of you, I also have an issue with the fourth edition changes in general. Although I have no issue with changing attribute bonuses as I see those as genetic bonuses. Signed, Conchobaer I understand what you're saying. I guess the forest/spelunking thing would have to be covered with additional options that fits for specific races. Good point. Overall I like it, I especially like the new lizardfolk, in fact I REALLY like the cold blooded idea. Some of the stuff doesn't seem to balance (ie lizardfolk natural weapons and physiology are more powerful than dwarven +2 to saves vs poison) You might improve/reduce some of these penalties. Another option would be making some advancements not available at level 1. I'm also not sure about the way you've done favored classes (tho I'm really not a fan either) It seems that 1 level for some classes wouldn't help much (ranger comes to mind) while adding 1 level to a druid or wizard could help a PC a lot. PS I think of the small races as being the size of my 5 year old about 3 foot and 40 lb isn't really that threatening He only gets the one natural weapon (bite). That's one that I was most concerned about alongside cold blooded. I'm surprised to see you say that about reptilian physiology. A few skill bonuses and a skill penalty doesn't seem that awesome. Favored Class: Remember, it doesn't count the following as one level higher... Hit Dice (and hit points) Base Attack Bonus Base Saves Skill Points Maximum Skill Ranks Spellcasting That means the character is only going to get that next special feature on the class table. For example, an Elf Fighter 4 / Wizard 4 gains that 5th level wizard bonus feat, but nothing else. An Orc Druid 3 / Ranger 2 gets to choose to gain either Resist Nature's Lure OR Endurance as a bonus feat. In the end, it's a pretty minor ability. It just looks better to give a little boost than a 20% EXP penalty.
Qwicksilver 11-30-07, 05:57 AM	Hello, I have idled away many hours working on re-working races before, but never this much. While I enjoy the idea of not making orcs unsociable and keeping elves from being nerfed, I find the idea of the racial advancements. The original idea is that an adventurer does not leave their society before adulthood and would therefore have these skills from growing up in the society. But if they are out adventuring in the wild woods, a dwarf is not going to learn about spelunking. Also, the idea of human 'adapting' sounds like a strange evolution to me. Not that this is a criticism of you, I also have an issue with the fourth edition changes in general. Although I have no issue with changing attribute bonuses as I see those as genetic bonuses. Signed, Conchobaer Bridging the gap between what happened in your game, and what the mechanics say happened is always a hard thing to balance. I'll just explain by noting that similar things have been said about leveling, how it's unrealistic that a person would just suddenly magically get new skills and abilities. It's particularly odd, if I, as an adventurer, can put large amounts of skill points in knowledge(planes), when I had not previously been to the other planes, nor had I recently read books on them or encountered extra planar creatures. It's hard to get this idea of learning and improvement, which is an abstraction, to become something concrete like leveling. I suppose, on some level, I'd agree with you though.