Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 06-15-07, 08:07 AM	Alright, this thread is a off-shoot of the 'Races of Savagery/the Horde' thread, and is solely for posting about the life-style, religion, social structure and so on of Orcs, focusing on Grey and Mountain Orcs, specificly. In no way, shape or form is it in any way linked to WoW Orcs, nor should it be considered so. Please post only if: A) You are intending to add relevant (3 or 3.5 information) about a Orc's life-style or -cycle. B) Have spotted a flaw in a post, such as data that has been errata'ed or a mis-interpretation of CORE. C) A poster on the original Thread (Races of Savagery) who wants to link to a post or comment on another thread. This post will be editted as data is compiled and we build up a workable, RP and Rules alike, 'Races of X' format. Chapter One: Orcs (much kudos to Borris for this lay-out) A Day in the Life: Appearance: Orcs appear similar to primitive Humans with skin varying between pale greens to dark greys, with coarse body hair, somewhat stooped postures, low foreheads and reddish eyes. Orc faces are marked by their sloping foreheads, short, snubbed noses, lupine ears and large, boar-like tusks in the place of lower canines. A Orc male can stand anywhere from 4 to over 6 feet tall and weigh around 210 pounds, although females are almost always slightly smaller and lighter. Psychology: Orcs are violent, impulsive, and crude. The very nature of their society leaves little room for compassion or remorse. Each day a family member dies, or there is a shortage of food, or the village is attacked by an "Adventuring party", it is these types of tragic occurences that serve to hardening the hearts of most orcs at a very young age. They have little time to worry about the future or anyone but themselves, making orcs very survival orientated. Even when they leave the dangers of the orc tribe, an orc has trouble letting go of their defensive impulses. They will be very territorial and protective of their possessions, leading to the misconception that they're greedy by nature. For that matter, many of the orc's failures in the eyes of "civilzed" races (poor hygiene, violent, rude, aggressive) are not innate, but rather the result of warlike culture begotten of a grim and hopeless lifestyle. Orcs raised outside of the confines of their tribes can show just as much benevolence or piety as any human can. It still must be noted that orcs are to some extent inclined to be stupider and far less insightful then humans, having an innate inclination to being short-tempered, impatient, and uncouth. Orcish Life: Society and Culture: Orcs and Other Races: Religion: _Gruumsh (Again, from Wikipedia) Description :Gruumsh appears as a powerful orc with one eye. A figure of fury and driven cruelty, Gruumsh rules his pantheon with brute power. His favored weapon is the spear. Relationships: Gruumsh is the husband of Luthic and father of Bahgtru. Ilneval is his most capable lieutenant. Gruumsh considers himself supreme, and considers every non-orc his enemy, holding special enmity for some. Gruumsh hates Corellon Larethian with a passion. He spreads this hatred to all of the Seldarine, especially Sehanine Moonbow, who fooled the orcish god many times to protect Corellon and her other family members. Gruumsh also loathes Moradin and the Dwarven pantheon. In his own pantheon, Gruumsh rules over all the other gods (although Shargaas and Yurtrus bear him little real loyalty beside that made from fear), and has his orders carried out through his lieutenant Ilneval. Realm: Gruumsh's divine realm is the Iron Fortress in Nishrek. In the standard cosmology represented by the Greyhawk and Planescape campaign settings, Nishrek is a part of Acheron, while in the Forgotten Realms cosmology this is a plane of its own. Gruumsh shares his home in the Iron Fortress with his son Bahgtru and his lieutenant Ilneval. Worshippers: As orcs that are not clerics or adepts are forbidden to speak his name, Gruumsh is also known as "One-Eye" "The One-Eyed God" "He-Who-Never-Sleeps" and "He-Who-Watches." Clergy, temples, and rituals: Gruumsh's priests wear dark red vestments, war helms, and black plate mail. His sacred animal is the giant rat. His holy day is the new moon, and he is worshipped in orcish lairs. A sacrifice of blood is made to him monthly. Myths and legends: In a past time, Gruumsh had two eyes but he lost one in a fight with the chief elven god Corellon Larethian. Gruumsh meant to paralyze Corellon with his magical spear; this attack failed and initiated an epic battle. During the course of this battle Gruumsh injured Corellon and, according to legend, from the blood shed the elven people were created. Corellon ended the fight by putting out Gruumsh's left eye, which is how Gruumsh earned his moniker "One-Eye." Some orcish clerics deny this tale, dismissing it as elven propaganda, and claim that Gruumsh always had one eye. Gruumsh created the orcs in his image to be his servants in the world but was cheated out of a home for his people by the other gods, according to the following excerpt by Roger E. Moore (from Unearthed Arcana): In the beginning all the gods met and drew lots for the parts of the world in which their representative races would dwell. The human gods drew the lot that allowed humans to dwell where they pleased, in any environment. The elven gods drew the green forests, the dwarven deities drew the high mountains, the gnomish gods the rocky, sunlit hills, and the halfling gods picked the lot that gave them the fields and meadows. Then the assembled gods turned to the orcish gods and laughed loud and long. "All the lots are taken!" they said tauntingly. "Where will your people dwell, One-Eye? There is no place left!" There was silence upon the world then, as Gruumsh One-Eye lifted his great iron spear and stretched it over the world. The shaft blotted the sun over a great part of the lands as he spoke: "No! You Lie! You have rigged the drawing of the lots, hoping to cheat me and my followers. But One-Eye never sleeps. One-Eye sees all. There is a place for orcs to dwell…here!," he bellowed, and his spear pierced the mountains, opening a mighty rift and chasms. "And here!," and the spearhead split the hills and made them shake and covered them in dust. "And here!," and the black spear gouged the meadows and made them bare. "There!" roared He-Who-Watches triumphantly, and his voice carried to the ends of the world. "There is where the orcs shall dwell! There they will survive, and multiply, and grow stronger, and a day will come when they cover the world, and they will slay all of your collective peoples! Orcs shall inherit the world you sought to cheat me of!" Forgotten Realms: Gruumsh once had an alliance with the conniving drow goddess Araushnee, to bring down the gods of the elves once and for all. His plan failed, despite a divine force brought against the elven gods consisting of the Seldarine's enemies in all the goblinoid and elf-hating pantheons, and Araushnee was transformed into Lolth. The two deities have been great foes ever since, though Gruumsh's alliance with another assisting deity, Malar, has not been so badly corrupted. _Baghtru _Ilneval _Luthic _Shargas _Yurtrus Histiory and Folklore: Language: Settlements: Orcs as Characters:
Kel 06-15-07, 12:50 PM	The gods you listed are all straight from the FRCS: The other books had a different set of gods, so only like one or two of those should stay, I think (besides Gruumsh). I can think of more, but later... after I wake up.
Yanagita Kunio 06-16-07, 12:46 AM	Well, it was the list of gods in 2e's Monster Mythology, which wasn't setting-specific. If you know of other gods from other sources, well, the more the merrier.
AMGriffin 06-16-07, 01:07 AM	Orcs are bigger then 4-6 feet tall. Try 5-7.
Threefists 06-16-07, 04:58 AM	Again (as mentioned in the Goblins thread), going off what the monster manual says...if anyone's got errata that says otherwise, please link it for ease of use for all posters!
Wolf72 06-16-07, 09:24 AM	The gods you listed are all straight from the FRCS: The other books had a different set of gods, so only like one or two of those should stay, I think (besides Gruumsh). I can think of more, but later... after I wake up. most of those go back to 1e and Dragon Magazine articles ... and are not FR specific (just FR popular)
Kel 06-16-07, 10:29 AM	Oh... I don't have any of the old stuff. Sorry
Dracomortis 06-16-07, 10:41 AM	Religion: _Gruumsh _Baghtru _Ilneval _Luthic _Shargas _Yurtrus Wikipedia lists the spellings as Bahgtru and Shargaas. It might also be worth noting Graz'zt as well, whom is a patron of those who rule by force, although orcs have never been officially noted as followers.
Tyberian 06-16-07, 11:41 AM	Wikipedia lists the spellings as Bahgtru and Shargaas. It might also be worth noting Graz'zt as well, whom is a patron of those who rule by force, although orcs have never been officially noted as followers. I'm sorry I don't have the location off the top of my head, but I have read a few scattered links on Ilneval that state he has a somewhat 'amiable' relationship with Graz'zt. Amiable meaning that they discuss and share some ideas and will probably continue to do so until they have problems with their portfolios and followers overlapping... In some of the others, it was mentioned that Ilneval reached his status by destroying all his rivals whose names were lost in antiquity as orcs do not have a reputation for leaving written records. As there are some feats such as Servant of the Fallen in FR that let you worship dead deities, does anyone have any ideas or concepts for these dead deities? Adding a found relic would be an interest campaign twist. Ideas anyone?:thinks:
Kel 06-16-07, 02:30 PM	You said "rivals"-- would that mean same type of portfolio, or opposites, or simply other gods who might impede him or with whom he might have to share power? I have a couple of ideas for each (just bare ideas, does not list portfolios and domains). These are all assumed to be killed by various gods. Yurugh: the God of cunning ambushes, stealthy assaults, and midnight raids, of taking and stealing swiftly and brutally, and of skirmishes. Killed by Ilneval, who wanted his part of mastery of war. Kraagarok: A god of archery and ranged combat: he, smarter than the rest, saw how the elves often won engagements with open space where there was room for bows, and taught the orcs how to shoot and throw to counter the elven archers. Killed for the same reasons as Yurugh. Dalhg: A god, considered weak, with a small following, of peace and pacifism. He believed that, by not harming the other races, they would allow the orcs, who were denied a homeland by the trickery of the gods, a place to live. Dalhg was slain by the arrows of Corellon, even as Gruumsh himself came out to slay Dalhg. This reinforced, in most orcs minds, that the civilized races were cruel and not to be trusted, and were out to get them. Pandogg: Goddess of defense, who made the orcs tougher than other races, and who desired them to go off to war less so they would not be killed: Ilneval killed her when she tried to prevent him from sending orcs off into a hopeless war. Danuka: The demon god, of torture and magic and the dead, who sends nightmares and death to the orc people. He was slain by an alliance of Yurtrus and Shargaas, but his spirit lives on in the hordes of Tanarukk. Nakrugch: The Craftsman, who showed the orcs how to create and shape iron, how to make tents, how to melt down what they got from raids and build into new stuff, and how not to waste anything. His success was so great that the other gods attempted to slay him: hearing of this in advance, he fled, and is now barely worshipped, and whereabouts is unknown. I don;t know how good these are... Dalhg in particualr seems sort of odd to me.
AMGriffin 06-16-07, 05:24 PM	Again (as mentioned in the Goblins thread), going off what the monster manual says...if anyone's got errata that says otherwise, please link it for ease of use for all posters! I'm just going off the MM entry and the half-orc height in the PHB. It says the AVERAGE orc is a little over six feet tall, and half-orcs are between just under five and just under seven feet as it is. I'm kinda bored now, so here's a contribution to flavor text: Psychology: Orcs are violent, impulsive, and crude. The very nature of their society leaves little room for compassion or remorse. Each day a family member dies, or there is a shortage of food, or the village is attacked by an "Adventuring party", it is these types of tragic occurences that serve to hardening the hearts of most orcs at a very young age. They have little time to worry about the future or anyone but themselves, making orcs very survival orientated. Even when they leave the dangers of the orc tribe, an orc has trouble letting go of their defensive impulses. They will be very territorial and protective of their possessions, leading to the misconception that they're greedy by nature. For that matter, many of the orc's failures in the eyes of "civilzed" races (poor hygiene, violent, rude, aggressive) are not innate, but rather the result of warlike culture begotten of a grim and hopeless lifestyle. Orcs raised outside of the confines of their tribes can show just as much benevolence or piety as any human can. It still must be noted that orcs are to some extent inclined to be stupider and far less insightful then humans, having an innate inclination to being short-tempered, impatient, and uncouth.
Egarb 06-17-07, 01:43 AM	One thing to keep in mind is why Orcs have the warlike mindset. They breed fast and constantly need new land for new Orcs. So their very biology necesitates war.
Omega_Grey 06-17-07, 08:18 AM	One thing to keep in mind is why Orcs have the warlike mindset. They breed fast and constantly need new land for new Orcs. So their very biology necesitates war. Not to mention they have a creator deity that demands they subjugate and/or destroy everything in their path. That has a lot to do with it as well I would think.
Egarb 06-18-07, 01:13 AM	But why does Grummsh necessitate war? Because its for the good of the Orcs. Why is it for their good? Because of the birth rate.
Omega_Grey 06-18-07, 01:23 AM	Or because he is Gruumsh and the orcs have a high birthrate to make up for all the wars they get into. Its a vicious cycle really.
AllWillFall2Me 06-19-07, 01:34 PM	Is theirs a warlike culture because they breed so quickly, or do they breed so quickly because their God wants war? Chicken, or egg? But that is something we should work out, which came first. Ooooh! That lends itself, if we choose option B, to a good Orc Legend: The First Horde. Perhaps it relates the tale of the first orc horde, and how, outnumbered by their united foes, they asked the gods to grant them a way to overcome them. Thus, Gruumsh and the Mother Goddess (Baghtru? I forgot which name is which.) blessed them with the power to outbreed their foes, to ever be a plague upon the others. OR, it could relate the tale of A God Horde, in the times where there were many Orc Gods, and they waged war on the others. But, when The core Orc deities realized that they would be stronger if there was less competition for prayers, they took upon themselves a Divine Weeding. Then, realizing that if they had more worshippers, they would be stronger, they toughened the Orc race, and made them breed faster. Or, both are legends, but the second stops at the Divine Weeding, and just explains how the gods came to be. To add on an even deeper intertwining, Perhaps the Orc Gods who aren't Gruumsh or Baghtru, came from that first horde. All the members of that horde became minor gods, but they eventually weeded themselves down to the remainder.
Thiez 06-19-07, 03:41 PM	MM IV says Orcs consider it a gift from Gruumsh that they can survive in places where other sentient creatures can't or won't. It would seem logical to credit Gruumsh with their fast breeding.
Omega_Grey 06-19-07, 04:06 PM	I do like the idea of Gruumsh giving orcs the 'gift' of fast breeding to help with his wars. Because even if it is best for the orcs to have all the land, the only reason they have it built in is because Gruumsh wants all the land. See where I'm going. Just like most of the core races, Orcs are subject to intelligent design, and they know it. They also know that their god is bigger and tougher then yours and even if they die, in the end the will of One Eye will win out. Its just a matter of time. (at least thats probably how the clerics/shamans look at it, the standard Orc Warrior 1 probably doesnt put much thought in it)
Kel 06-20-07, 06:54 PM	Um, AMGriffin, I don't think the part about the family members dying/ adventuring party/ food shortage is right. If it was, there would have to be multiple children born every day in a 20-person tribe, or else they would ALL die out. There are probably whole years going by without wars (other than the occasional raid). After all, most orcs live in the places of the world no one else can (or wants to) live, so who would they fight? Even the race as a whole cannot live a life of constant warfare, or even a war once an (orc) generation: they would starve to death, or simply run out of people to fight, or be exterminated by the elves, dwarves and humans to stop the fighting. No, I think the life of an orc tribe is more like raids, skirmishes, and a war every couple of generations. There are probably wars between tribes more often than there are wars with other races.
AMGriffin 06-20-07, 09:30 PM	Um, AMGriffin, I don't think the part about the family members dying/ adventuring party/ food shortage is right. If it was, there would have to be multiple children born every day in a 20-person tribe, or else they would ALL die out. I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you :). Starvation and the death of family members were a relatively common occurence amongst primitive humans, and they didn't live int he barrens orcs typically live in. And WE didn't die out, did we? Really, if orcs are living in such vile conditions then where is their food going to come from? There's not going to be much of it and cannibalism will be a relatively common occurence. The every day thing is a bit of an exaggeration yes, but the point is that each day is one of hardship for an orc, and nothing comes easy. There are probably whole years going by without wars (other than the occasional raid). And? That doesn't change the fact orcs are going to have a violent and tough home life. After all, most orcs live in the places of the world no one else can (or wants to) live, so who would they fight? Why do you think orcs raid in the first place? They can't grow food or live off what they get in the barren lands they live in, orcs are going to form raiding parties to steal what they can from other people's lands. Even the race as a whole cannot live a life of constant warfare, or even a war once an (orc) generation: Who said war? Orcs don't wage war, they raid and pillage, like the Vikings did. I never even mentioned war, othe then they have a warlike culture (which they do) or how often they attack neighboring peoples as it is. they would starve to death, or simply run out of people to fight, or be exterminated by the elves, dwarves and humans to stop the fighting. No, I think the life of an orc tribe is more like raids, skirmishes, and a war every couple of generations. There are probably wars between tribes more often than there are wars with other races. Where the hell are getting this notion I said they do nothing but go out and raid? I never said that, period. I simply said they have a hard lifestyle. You're arguing with me about things I never said.
Kel 06-20-07, 10:51 PM	Part of that turned from a criticism and reply to a general view of my ideas of orcish warfare/life and stuff. Subjects I talk about tend to change mid-paragraph. This isn't really my thing... I can make the basics of a race, but when you get into heavy detail like this, I get really lost and confused... sorry.:(
AMGriffin 06-25-07, 12:05 AM	No harm no foul. And why is this topic dying? Da orkz arr da tuffest boyz around!
Omega_Grey 06-25-07, 02:05 AM	Well lets compare the Orcs to the Anglo-Saxons of old. I think that is a fair comparison. They are both a very brutish violent people that values personal strength above almost all else. The Anglo-Saxons raided villages and towns when they could get away with it and every generation or so they would make a giant push into civilized lands. And they were never hunted down to extinction. They survived for a long time doing this. I understand that the Anglo-Saxons didnt have to contend with elven magic, but then again they didnt have clerics of their own whipping up wards and barriers to help protect them from scrying attempts. So I dont think it is unreasonable to assume that Orcs do engage in skirmishes all the time, and only engage in giant war now and then. As for fighting between tribes, its supposed to be very common. Gruumsh even encourages it, it helps weed out the weak from the tribes and makes the species stronger as a whole. That isnt to say that they decimate each other to the point of extinction, my guess is that after one tribe decides they have lost a fight they simply join the winning tribe, and this goes on until we have ourselves a super tribe that goes on the war path until they suffer major defeats and disband to the hills (or mountains, or swamps, or caves, or whatever) and start the whole process all over again.
Kel 06-25-07, 10:02 AM	Has anyone given any thought to what the Orcish views on death would be like? I think it would be a pretty big part of their culture (well, actually, death is a big part of any culture...), especially considering that death is probably more common among the orcs than it was with the Anglo-Saxons.
Omega_Grey 06-25-07, 10:36 AM	You'd be surprised, the Anglo-Saxons had a fairly high mortality rate compared to the other societies of the age. But I do agree that orcs would face it much more often, especially since there are many more of them then there ever were Anglo-Saxons. Personally I dont think they would take death too seriously, so Grog died, big deal, the important thing is who gets his stuff? Heck the clerics probably even make glorious death in combat against the 'weak' races be something to be sought out. Then again even orcs might realize that death on a whole isnt something to take lightly, after all many of them that survive their raids on the Humans and Elves have seen hundreds of their companions die. The individual death might not be that big of a deal, but I can see them holding some sort of ritual for the mass deaths that their species endures. Not that this ritual has to be morose, in fact it might just be a giant party to help the survivors cope with the overwhelming gloom of the situation.
AMGriffin 06-25-07, 11:33 AM	I always imagined orcs as having a similar lifestlye/culture to the Vikings. They live in a frigid, barren lands and are prone to raiding for survival. Has anyone considered the possibility of orc culture and religion being exceedingly dismal and pessimisstic? They don't live very long compared to other races and are detested by almost every "civilized" race and even amongst the savage races they're probably looked at as rivals. As for orcs and death, they'd probably discuss death as being inevitable, and would probably not really glorify or disdain it, as pragmatic and "whatever works" as orcs are, death is probably going to just be something they expect and don't really celebrate or mourn on a society level, say maybe for massive deaths during a horde raid or something along those lines.
Omega_Grey 06-25-07, 11:59 AM	I always imagined orcs as having a similar lifestlye/culture to the Vikings. They live in a frigid, barren lands and are prone to raiding for survival. Has anyone considered the possibility of orc culture and religion being exceedingly dismal and pessimisstic? They don't live very long compared to other races and are detested by almost every "civilized" race and even amongst the savage races they're probably looked at as rivals. As for orcs and death, they'd probably discuss death as being inevitable, and would probably not really glorify or disdain it, as pragmatic and "whatever works" as orcs are, death is probably going to just be something they expect and don't really celebrate or mourn on a society level, say maybe for massive deaths during a horde raid or something along those lines. Well since the big difference between Vikings and Anglo-Saxons is that Vikings had boats, and lots of them. Thats the only real reason I use Anglo-Saxons instead (but I must admit that I really dont know a whole lot of true, factual information about either beyond what I learned in various Literature classes). But as for Orcs having a pessimistic lifestyle, I dont really see that happening. They dont take their hardship as a burden, they take it willingly and gratefully. It helps re-emphasize the point that they are better then the other races. But thats just my take on it.
Kel 06-25-07, 05:34 PM	I was sort of thinking about what they thought about the whole after death part, not their views about death in general, though that is still important. How important are ancestors (recent ones, obviously), what do they think happens to them when they die, maybe funeral stuff, etc.
Relic 06-25-07, 07:09 PM	I would think that since Gruumsh plays a significant role in guiding orcs to battle, violence, and brutality that he would also play a significant role in the orcs' view of death and the afterlife. I would associate the orcs' view of death similar to the Vikings... once they die they go to the "paradise of warriors" where their is glory in combat, lots of food and mead (especially the mead) and lots of plunder and slaves to be had (i.e. women). Or course, if they believe that the afterlife is helping Gruumsh in his eternal war against the traitorous and pathetic elves... then life is all about proving oneself worthy to join this eternal battle in the paradise of orc warriors.
Threefists 06-26-07, 10:24 AM	Personally, I can't see the Orcs as a race holding much in the way of funerals for those lost in combat. Their society seems to be exceedingly "If he's strong, we follow, if he's weak, we kill him and feed him to the Worgs!" sort of society. Those that fall in battle are weak, those that survive are strong. That said, I can see the shamans (Clerics/Spirit Shamans or perhaps even Druids if a strongly CN or NE tribe is used) praising the spirits of the dead simply to prevent those bitter, angry souls who felt 'cheated' from rising as vengeful Undead, and also, if we're looking at Orcs as sort of Viking/Anglo-Saxon hybrids, a bit of Norse mythology is that those warriors valiant enough to join the Aesir in Valhalla will spend eternity fighting, becoming ever more skilled and powerful, and immortal too boot while living in Valhalla, until the day comes when Ragnarok comes. Except with Grummush, it'd likely be he'd be 'stockpiling' troops, specificly Orcs prone to violent, bloody rages who aren't that bright and wouldn't be useful to his rivals, the sort who'd happily take a barrage of arrows that is going to kill them so long as they get to take with them even a single enemy. Think about it: Orcs breed like rats, litterally, while Elves are lucky to have three or four children in their very long lives, if that. That's a hell of a lot more 'soldiers' for Grummush than Corelleon, and with the way that Orcs fight and die, that number is increasing at a hideously exponential rate. The only downside is that Corelleon can call upon Moradin and the other 'Good' aligned Gods for help, while Grummush's limited to his own brutal pantheon, with the gods of Goblins, Giants and the other 'Evil' aligned Gods more interested in stealing his portfolios and/or followers for themselves than helping him 'Settle the score' with the 'Tree-Hugging Pointy-Eared Foo-Foo Pansy' (Corelleon).
Omega_Grey 06-27-07, 12:08 AM	Hatred can be a pretty strong unifying force. It united the Slavs of ancient Russia against the Mongols, it even united the Goths against the Romans, so who is to say that it wouldn't unite the Goblins, Ogres, and Orcs against the Elves, Dwarves, and others? But I dont mean to turn this into some sort of otherworld debate. Honestly I dont think it should be that big of a deal (in the book that is). Orcs die, they move on. I think I said it earlier, I doubt the individual Orc places much thought on death, other then 'I want to make that guy dead' line of thinking.
Relic 06-27-07, 07:13 PM	I would think that the orcs would have some customs, beliefs, rituals, etc about death. Every culture throughout history has had beliefs concerning if not the afterlife then at the very least death. And since they are a very war-like race, I would think their beliefs about death would be an important aspect of their culture. However, it is a game and you could have orcs with a degree of apathy towards everything in life but the ability to wage war and kill their enemies. And that would be perfectly fine. Unusual.. but fine.
Threefists 07-02-07, 08:27 AM	:bump: *Casts True Ressurection on the thread* I will not allow my babies to die!
AMGriffin 07-02-07, 01:28 PM	Hmm, what more is needed? I'll probably write an "orcs and other races" passage when I get home.
Kel 07-03-07, 02:14 PM	well, based off of the other books, we need stuff on... Day in the Life Clothing typically worn (everyday, traveling, ornate, and war) Grooming Psychology (we did some of this, but it still feels incomplete.) Leisure Arts and Crafts Technology and Magic Orc society and Culture Orcs and other Races Orc Religion Orc History and Folklore/Myths Orc Language Orc Settlements Orc Names Creating Orc characters Orcs as Characters (will partially need to be filled in later: don't know what substitution levels are being added in) Special Orc Options (which probably needs to be filled in later, as we don't know what all feats and PrC's will be added in.) A rather large part of this will have to be invented, I think... Oh, and at the end of each section there will have to be a "Roleplaying Applications" section, where it says how that effects your character's life and identity (which, for those who don't have the Races books, also says how your character could be the opposite of the norm). We still have plenty of work to do here and in the other chapters.
Artifact 07-03-07, 03:51 PM	I always imagined orcs as having a similar lifestlye/culture to the Vikings. They live in a frigid, barren lands and are prone to raiding for survival. I like this idea. Makes me wonder what the orc version of Ragnarok is. Ooooh! That lends itself, if we choose option B, to a good Orc Legend: The First Horde. Perhaps it relates the tale of the first orc horde, and how, outnumbered by their united foes, they asked the gods to grant them a way to overcome them. Thus, Gruumsh and the Mother Goddess (Baghtru? I forgot which name is which.) blessed them with the power to outbreed their foes, to ever be a plague upon the others. I like these legends. I don't have anything to contribute (at least not yet), but I just wanted to say thaks to everyone for the great ideas here. I love it when my imagination gets fired up (especially when its on something that I've often overlooked, like orcs). Thanks again :). [Edit: To AllWillFall2Me in the post directly below: Very nice work. I only wish the power of my own imagination stirred me to write so well. I'd like use the Legend of the First Horde in my own setting (with your permission). Again, very nice.]
AllWillFall2Me 07-03-07, 04:48 PM	So, here's my first attempt at The Legend of The First Horde (NOTE: I'm going to take A LOT of liberties in here,so bear with me.): Once, in the Ancient Times, Gruumsh and Luthic were more than just the Mother and Father gods of the orcs, they were the mother and father of every orc. Also, Gruumsh was whole, with two eyes. In these days, the female orcs stood with the males, as warriors in their father's army.And Gruumsh raised his sons and daughters, and taught them the holy ways of War. The Blood-Fury, the need for Armor, and how fear was weakness. Soon, he had raised an army, with which he hoped to take the world the other gods cheated him of. So he massed all his children, and put as their leader Baghtru, The Firstborn. Led by Baghtru, this First Horde fell on the other races like a black tide, washing them in blood and death. Nothing could stop them. The Dwarf's sheilds and hard armor was no match for the waves of Orcish Axes. The Elves had too few arrows to slow the tide, and the armies of man had no hope, nor spirit as strong as teh rage of the orcs. So all fled before the horde, or died. Until that day. The Horde was chasing an army of fleeing humans, down a box canyon, and was glee-filled, for they knew heir foes would be caught between the canyon wall and their axes. Until they heard the sound of stomping boots, and clinking armor behind them. They turned, and found the exit closed by a Dwarven Army! And all around the Canyon Walls, Elven Archers appeared! What no race had the strength to do, stop the orcs, they had found through helping the others. The battle that day was Bloody, and the Orcs killed many Dwarves and Men. But, they were outnumbered, and so they called to their Father: "Father, you see our plight, Crush our foes, so we may yet win!" Gruumsh, hearing their cry, sped to the battle, and made to strike the Elven archers from the walls, and rend the earth Beneath the Dwarves, when he heard behind him: "No." Turning, Gruumsh met the Gods of Dwarves, Elves and Men. They had cheated him from the world before, and now the prevented him from saving his own children. He flew into the greatest Blood-Fury ever seen, and struck at all three pantheons. For a day and a night, he singly fought against overwhelming odds, as his children did below. And seeing their God-Father fight for them, they fought even fiercer, though still they dwindled, still they were outmatched. Finally, Great Gruumsh knelt, unable to defeat the other gods who sought to stop him. He knelt, and knew that he could not save his children. One tear leaked from his left eye. In a fury at his own weakness, Gruumsh took his spear and put out his own eye, vowing never to weep again. His one tear fell to earth, and bathed his Firstborn, Baghtru, who was then touched, as the only recipient of his father's sorrow, and that is how Baghtru became a God. Gruumsh's blood from the wound of his eye bored holes into the earth, tunnels which the orcs used to escape their pursuers. They fled into the dark places below the earth, where one day they would emerge the Orogs. When Gruumsh returned to his camp, where Luthic waited to hear how her children were slaying their foes, he told her the tale. She keened for her lost children, and the treacherous and weak unity their foes had used to defeat them. She took the battle-strength of her daughters, and in her hands twisted it. "Since Dwarf and Elf and Man wish us dead," She cried, "For every man born there shall be three Orcs!" And so saying, she made her war-daughters into breeder-daughters. And this is why orcs breed faster than the other races. The wrath of their divine parents at the loss of their first children drives them to conquer their united foes.
Omega_Grey 07-04-07, 02:05 AM	Very nice legend, it goes a long way to helping us build the orcs are a species of people then just a stated out race. It gives us reason for why they dont simply kill each other off and helps give meaning behind a lot of their actions/behaviors.
Damuna 07-04-07, 02:09 AM	For the "orcs and other races" bit, it's worth noting that orcs generally hate elves and dwarves, and sometimes ally themselves with goblinoids.
DrDragon 07-09-07, 09:58 PM	Orc preists always use spears a few pluck out there eyeballs. Orcs treat half orcs as inferiors. Orc slaves are very misstreated and often either sell them or work them to death. Orcs are crual sadistic creatures. Orcs often take there pleasure on humans resulting in all manor of halfbreeds.
AMGriffin 07-10-07, 02:23 PM	Those are all very hollow statements that everybody knows and really don't add a whole to orcs outside of their stereotype as villains who are bad for the sake of being bad. Though it does bring up the question if orcs were to find humans unattractive (which would make sense, considering how rugged and tough humans are in comparison to orcs, meaning they'd find the scrawny little humans unattractive) why are half-orcs so common?
Thiez 07-10-07, 02:46 PM	Though it does bring up the question if orcs were to find humans unattractive (which would make sense, considering how rugged and tough humans are in comparison to orcs, meaning they'd find the scrawny little humans unattractive) why are half-orcs so common? Humans are like sheep to Orcs... :P
Damuna 07-10-07, 04:03 PM	Those are all very hollow statements that everybody knows and really don't add a whole to orcs outside of their stereotype as villains who are bad for the sake of being bad. Such statements also appear in the actual Races series. :D
DrDragon 07-13-07, 01:56 AM	I think half orcs just like humans for the sake of lust not actual love love.
Omega_Grey 07-22-07, 03:47 AM	From the Second Edition Humanoids Handbook. Background. Orcs look like primitive humans with gray-green skin and coarse hair. They stoop slightly, have low jutting foreheads, snouts, canine-like teeth, and short pointed ears. The average orc stands between 5 1/2 and 6 feet tall. Half-Orcs have much more human features. Orcs are aggressive humanoids that live in tribal societies. They band together to hunt and raid, believing that to survive they must expand their territory. This need to expand puts them in a constant state of war with humans, elves, dwarves, goblins, and even other orc tribes. Orc communities are usually found underground (75% likely), but wilderness villages do exist. These lairs are protected by the best defenses the orcs can invent or steal. Some of these communities are built around active mines. All make use of slave labor. The orc mentality views aggression as the natural order. They believe that other races are inferior to them, and bully weaker creatures. Enslaved orcs will rebel at the first opportunity. When allied with others, orcs are quick to take offense and break agreements. To orcs, the greatest challenge they can set for themselves is the test of battle. They value territory above all else, though they also take great pride in battle experience and prowess, wealth, and lots of offspring. Orc society is male dominated; females exist to bear young. Though carnivorous, orcs prefer game meats or livestock to intelligent races. Role-Playing Suggestions. Player character orcs are not as rare as other humanoid races. The call to battle is not much different than the call to adventure, and orc heroes sometimes come to the forefront. If treated with care and patience, orc adventurers can become effective partners and allies. Because females have few rights in orc society, many of them turn to adventuring to escape their lot in life. A few orcs even attempt to reject their evil natures in order to try to become honorable warriors. While an orc will never become a paladin, some do attain the orcish equivalent of holy warriors. However, those orcs that attempt to fight fair and with honor are sneered at and rejected by their own kind. Why fight face to face, the common orc thinks, when fighting from an advantageous hiding plave is so much more effective? Superstitions. Fear of sickness, the weak, the lame, cowards, sunlight. Thought this would help the thread out.
AMGriffin 07-22-07, 12:03 PM	I think half orcs just like humans for the sake of lust not actual love love. Okay, assuming you meant full orcs let me explain this. Orcs and humans do not look alike, at all. AT ALL. Orcs are big and brawny with snouts, tusks, jutting jaws, sloping foreheads, pointy ears, and green (in some interpretations gray) skin. Humans are comparitvely scrawny and have long, pointy noses, no tusks, a comparitvely small jaw (That DOESN'T protrude further then their upper lip), rounded foreheads, round ears, and skin that ranges from a pale white to dark brown. Based on how different they are from orcs, one would think orcs would find humans to be just as ugly as humans find orcs. The best explanation is orcs just do it for the sake of doing it, I guess.
Omega_Grey 07-22-07, 06:19 PM	I suppose that may be true, then again as the saying goes, they're all pink on the inside...
DrDragon 08-19-07, 06:30 PM	also orcs tend to think they own everything there gods want them to conqor as much as possible.
Nature-boy 08-19-07, 10:45 PM	also orcs tend to think they own everything there gods want them to conqor as much as possible. Right, they're invading by pillaging the women and raping the fields. Seriously though, I think that's a good point. They could be taking over by spreading orcish bloodlines as far as they can. If more humanoids are orcish, then they will have less opposed rivals.
Threefists 08-27-07, 12:21 PM	Alternatively, consider this: Half-Breeds: Every time a half-breed is born, it is a victory from Grummush and his people. Every time the victim's parents or people see the half-breed, they are reminded once again that Orcs won against them. Furthermore, that half-breed will further taint the bloodlines of their enemies with the holy blood of the greatest race of all, that of the Orcs. Perhaps Grummush intends to invoke a epic spell that will turn anyone who has a Orc within 10 generations in his or her family tree into a bloodthirsty CE Orc sometime in the distant future. Maybe he's secretly hoping to breed some intelligence back into his people, hoping that by taking traits from the other races, such as human cunning, he can do to the races of mortals what he did to the lands that the other Gods tricked him out of all those millennia ago: Corrupt and contest their control over them. To put it into a very crude and nasty expression, culled from Braveheart: "If we can't cull them out, we'll breed them out!" Rape isn't always about lust. It can be about dominance, about proving you're better and have control over the other person(s), and a half-breed child would hammer that fact home every day of the parent(s) life, doing lasting psychiological damage to more than just the half-breed's parent(s), but also the community at large.
creyzi4zb12 08-27-07, 10:28 PM	I thought there were some orcs and humans who lived together not for the sake of love? I once read about it on the Promise of Witch King by RAS. There was an entire village filled with half orcs, and it said that their ancestory were all orcs. Must've been an orgy field for orcs. But I highly doubt that statement. I think orcs and humans can have a chance of living together not for the sake of lust or domination. Take General Vrakk, I've always admired the dude, he could've raped Rinda when Zhentil Keep fell. But he knew there were more importatnt things at hand. Neway. At the time when Gruumsh was cheated by the gods he grew angry and formed war over the dwarves humans and elves. He didn't have any choice but to put his children on the caves and other separated lots to keep on warring against the humans. I would have thought of orcs to be victims. So here's my perspective: Gruumsh's dogma I think has a hidden deep meaning inside it. Gruumsh urges his children to attack and be strong because they live in a cruel world. It was done before by the fathers (gods) of their enemies, where they cheated him of his land. And Gruumsh is afraid that it will be done again. Take note that Gruumsh is a proud being, an ever seing being who sees everything. He is angered by the other races that stole the light from them. Maybe he demands the dogma because he is pained to see that his children are living pitifully in the mountains, as his "ever seing eye" looks at the humans and dwarves and elves sing merrily and joyfully on their comfortable homes. Thus because of this vision, he is much much more angered. He urges his people to hurry it up with their conquest, but the orc hoards fail as always. And so comes his hot temper. His people are forced to be nomadic, and spread on through hoardes outside the world. Take the mongolians for example, they were a bunch of people who were separated (similar to the orcs), for survival they did what the orcs did. Formed a hoarde. He doesn't want his people to end up like the goblins and other small humanoid races who are almost merely underestimated in the planet. To sum it all up, what Gruumsh really is doing is for the good of his children, even if it means through cruelty and savage justice. He is afraid that if he stops the never ending campaign for domination his people will end up like the sarrukh, who once ruled the planet as a prominent and stable empire, and now, because they ceased to become what they were are nothing more than little tribes of scattered folk in the planet. That is also one of the big reasons why he gave orcs the power to breed, which is probably(to me) the orcs' most powerful and effective weapon. BTW: Anybody heard of Danogra before? Or was it Donagra? Orc slaves are very misstreated and often either sell them or work them to death. Orcs are crual sadistic creatures. mistreated and sadistic is a good word. But take note that so are other races, humans also do torture. If u would read books that had Xvim or Cyric as god on it, u would doubt the fact that orcs are "that" brutal. Remember, the more intelligent a creature is, the more powerful can their aspect of brutality be. Orcs are also poorly enslaved by drow and other races. More brutal than how they treat the others. Orcs often take there pleasure on humans resulting in all manor of halfbreeds. I have to agree on this one tho'. Maybe it's coz of their curiosity and dumb nature. BUt then again, the sarrukh were intelligent creatures, and they formed half-breeds almost out of anything. Oh well, maybe it's part of Gruumsh' plan. BTW: Threefists. Would u mind if I used the info. on orcs u have to my thread?
Threefists 09-03-07, 11:24 AM	No, go for broke friend. The more people talk about Orcs (and by dint of association, the Goblinoids) the better!
Omega_Grey 09-04-07, 12:55 AM	Back to Orc society, something I have imagined as being fairly common place would be a break down of rule of law. That is, in the higher hierarchy of orcish rule they all obey the letter of the chiefs rule, but as you get away from the direct eye of the chief the only real rule is 'do unto others before they do unto you.' Any other thoughts?
bhu 09-10-07, 03:42 AM	:bump: So how are things coming along? Is anyone in particular writing for the orcs? I'm a litle behind on how things are going.
Omega_Grey 09-10-07, 08:44 AM	Most of the major players on these threads have dropped off. But I am sure that one or two people out there are willing to give it a go.
AllWillFall2Me 09-12-07, 03:32 PM	Perhaps the orc tribes could be run in a way similar to the way I seem to remember viking kingdoms being run? As I recall, There's the chief/King Then he has his huskarls or something like that, who are his warrior lieutenants. Under the huskarls are the trebs(?) who answer to them. Essentially, the chief makes big decisions, sleeps in biggest tent, etc, but every "huskarl" runs his section as he wishes under the rule of the chief. So within one tribe, you could have 4 or 5 distinct battle tactics or cultures. Maybe one huskarl killed many dwarves, and, seeing the power of their armor, has taught his warriors in the use of it. Orcs in full plate with great axes live longer than naked orcs with greataxes. And another huskarl thinks his way cowardy, and teaches his men to rely on the Blood Frenzy to protect them, as in it they channel gruumsh. Ooh. Both of those would make cool PrCs...
Omega_Grey 09-12-07, 03:52 PM	I like the idea of a clan within a tribe going on. Maybe have it be blood connections link you to which clan you belong to, either by birth or by taking blood oaths or something.
Raptorial 09-12-07, 04:36 PM	Here are some suggestions of my own, with any links to animal stats not from the first Monster Manual of my own design. Orcs and Warbeasts Orcs of the Far North take great pride in making strong and vicious warbeasts, stealing creatures deemed worthy from their slaughtered mothers and training from a young age with brutal tactics to make them both loyal and violent war mounts. The following are some examples of what an orc might utilize in their war band. Speed Cavalry: Megaloceros (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13744182&postcount=1117) are a common form of faster cavalry, especially since they have a powerful charge that can knock enemies senseless. "Tanks": For powerhouse warbeasts, dire animals are often utilized, as well as the stubborn but effective woolly rhinoceros. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13737773&postcount=1113) "Troop Carriers": Woolly mammoths (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13737773&postcount=1113) and (species as of yet undecided for monsters piece of RotH) are the typical form of carrying more than one orc soldier, but frost worm carriers are not unheard of. New Feat: Violent Training You train your beasts in the most violent manner possible. Prerequisites: Orc, Handle Animal 2 ranks. Benefits: When training an animal, you may choose to use an Intimidate check instead of Handle Animal (if the former is higher than the latter).
bhu 09-13-07, 03:25 AM	Taking writing sign ups now in the main thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=862300 If you wanna do something for the orcs, drop me a PM or post there.
bhu 09-17-07, 03:10 AM	Okay Im gonna try to do it chapter by chapter so orcs are up first. See main thread for details, or if you wanna write for it. I'm also hoping we can use whats already been done...
AllWillFall2Me 09-26-07, 01:45 AM	Quick kick up the thread count, I should have something done for orc society tomorrow. My apologies on the delay, I had a very busy weekend/Monday.
AllWillFall2Me 09-27-07, 01:26 AM	Alright, Orc society, Take 1! Orc Society The Family: It is a widespread belief that orcs have no familial bonds or loyalty, being violent and cruel to their own children. This view is the result of prejudices and misinterpretations of actions and the society as a whole. The Orcish reliance on the clan (See below) change many of the duties other humanoids assign to the family. In the simplest terms, the entire clan is an orc's family. The older warriors serve as uncles and mentors, fellow clan children serve as brothers-in-arms, cousins, and eventual tested allies. The females of the clan serve as aunts, grandmothers, and in many cases eventual wives. None of this refutes the fact that orcs do honor the ties of blood, and hold loyalty to their families. An Orcish father seeing his sons wrestle in the dirt is one of the proudest creatures alive. The misunderstanding results from the orcish viewpoint. An orc sees no reason to spare his children pain, indeed he feels it is his duty to teach the harder lessons, as he knows he won't kill his sons. Orcs live lives of constant battle and danger, an untested or weak orc is a liability to the clan and tribe. So an orc will often strike children who make mistakes or don't learn, as a bruise will heal better than a cut from a dwarven axe. However, orcs also understand that they will lose children. Too rough playing, childhood accidents, raids from unscrupulous adventurers, all of these make the likelihood of an orc child making it to adulthood low. Often, adventurers report that orcs callously beat their children, not seeing the lines of resignation in the father's face, unwilling to embrace a child in case it should fall. Once a child survives past the day of adulthood, the orc's love for his offspring is fiercer than almost any race's. Some of the greatest blood rivalries, and most intense of hatreds, have sprung from the death of an orc's young son. The Clan: Most races focus on the family. Others focus on the community as a whole. Orcs, contrary creatures that they are, follow neither path. The core unit of orc society is not the family, nor the tribe, but rather, the clan. The clan is at times a difficult concept to understand, but to the orcs, it is the best of both worlds. A clan is made up of several families, normally 3-4, that share some distinctive trait. It is often the case that this distinctive trait is a combat style, but at times it could be a strange religion, or perhaps the families produce a great many druids, or some other unique characteristic. In any case, the clan is sort of a tribe within a tribe, or the family above the family. The standard way of an orc's life is to be taught the ways of his clan by his father, then the other warriors/mentor of the clan, to prove himself worthy to take the clan's name at adulthood, and marry within the clan. This being said, there are other ways to become a member of a clan. Some orcs cannot live in a clan, or at the least, learn it's ways. An example is, say Oruk, of the Blood Razors, a clan that focuses on wielding light, slashing weapons in both hands, has a son that is ponderous, but strong and tougher than most of the other children. If it is deemed that a child cannot learn the clan ways, and the clan has no other function he can fill, the father will address the chief, his clan head, both of whom will contact another clan head, and discuss the potential for a clan transfer. If deemed appropriate, the child will be formally adopted by a family of the other clan, and be raised as a member of the clan. He will be a clan member in all ways, but still retain loyalty to his real family. Occasionally, chiefs will force clan transfers as a way of cooling clan rivalries. It's hard to hate the people who have raised your eldest son to be a honorable warrior. Clans can choose, as a whole, to leave or join a tribe. The Tribe: The Clan is the central unit of society to an orc, but the most commonly seen structure is the tribe. This is due to the understanding of teamwork and unity orcs. At its most fundamental, the theory, though few orcs could express it, is the more non-clan allies we have, the fewer of our clan will die in battle. Orcs gather in tribes, because numbers provide strength and safety. A tribal chief is not a powerless figurehead, though. The chief is the voice of the tribe, regardless of whether or not most or any of the tribe agrees. He mediates clan disputes, and leads the tribe in battle. He is regarded as the closest thing to an avatar of Gruumsh a tribe has. He consults with the priests to know the Orcfather's will, and will consult with the tribal elders on more mundane matters. Elder is a title that any orc can acquire, though as suggested by the name, usually the wiser, older orcs fill the roles. The elders manage the lesser aspects of tribal life for the chief. Things like sanitation, food, clothes, all seen to by the elders. A lesser known or discussed part of the elders is that often, should a tribe possess some from of scouts or spies, unless battle is joined or an attack imminent, the leader of such a group reports to the elders, of which he or she is a member. Any religious or spiritual leaders not favored by the chief hold positions amongst the elders. Gender Roles: Orcs are by nature a warlike people. When they are not preparing for battle, they are either waging it or resting from it. Such a life makes one a fierce warrior, but also ill-suited for domestic life. Thus the roles in orcish society have become fairly divided. The males of an orc tribe tend to fall into one of three categories: warrior, leader, informant. The majority of orc males are warriors, constantly fighting, or wanting to fight. The second most common is the leader. Be he a priest of Gruumsh, a clan head, a chief, or some other role, these orcs fight, but also plan and plot and show their followers how things are done. The rarest of the male role is that of informant. The wizened druid, the half-blood spy, the maimed instructor, all examples of the least represented and honorable of male orc roles. In a society that measures prestige by strength, being the brain carries a stigma. The females handle all the day-to-day that makes a tribe run. They make the goods, hunt, cook, raise children, mend armor and weapons, and in some cases are even the forgers of said weapons. They fall into a wide variety of roles, from the broodmother watching the clan's children, the rare female fighter war-wedded, or a simple wife to a great warrior. Without the females, an orc tribe, clan, or family would quickly find itself unable to function or possibly survive. More to come
Raptorial 09-27-07, 02:19 AM	I like your view on orcs...kind of Hunnish. I have a piece of armor whose idea was spawned by the cover image I did in the main thread. Chieftan's War Armor Type: Heavy. Cost: Not available for sale, estimated value 2,000 gp. Armor Bonus: +9. Maximum Dex Bonus: +0. Armor Check Penalty: -8 Arcane Spell Failure Chance: 40%. Speed: 20 ft. Weight: 50 lb. When an orc clan declares war upon an enemy, the chief dons this special armor, a symbol of the eternal vigilance of the unified clan. The silver armor is decorated with three swirling eyespots, said to be imbued with the fierce spirit of a giant owlbear slain in the past by the clan. Special: The owlbear spirit eyespots are unnerving and somewhat frightening to onlookers. The orc chieftan wearing the armor gains a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks against any sentient being not of his clan.
creyzi4zb12 10-03-07, 09:59 AM	:bump: Nice!! I love orcs!! Has anybody read the Orc King before? It has a new orc kingdom called Dark Arrow Citadel on it. And the orcs are at peace with the dwaves,humans and other goodly folks...I think their leader was called Obould the sixth.
Sudnji_cas 10-08-07, 04:47 PM	:bump: I just found this thread and I just love it! Keep with the great work.
AllWillFall2Me 10-19-07, 04:44 PM	BAM! Just kicked my post up a notch, by roundabout request of bhu.
bhu 10-21-07, 03:15 PM	BAM! Just kicked my post up a notch, by roundabout request of bhu. Looking forward to seeing more :)
OrcLord 10-24-07, 07:04 PM	BTW: Anybody heard of Danogra before? Or was it Donagra? Da'Nogra is an orc god I created many years ago when I created an orc clan for Ultima Online. I did create a d20 version of him -- but he is not part of the official FR pantheon. http://www.orcs.ca/orcsmain/roleplaydnddanogra.html
creyzi4zb12 10-30-07, 11:46 PM	So u created Danogra? That guy was cool!! If he's ot part of FR pantheon. Is he part of the god pantheon in Greyhawk?
AllWillFall2Me 11-14-07, 12:30 PM	Here's my first draft on religion: Orcs and Religion: If there is anything that binds a tribe together, making it more than several clans that happen to live together, it's religion. The average orc is far more religious than your average dwarf, human, or elf. This is in part derived from the orcish lack of intelligence. Many orcs lack "scientific" understanding of the world around them, and have learned to accept the words of the elders, who tend to be priests or druids, about such matters. If the priest of Gruumsh says that thunder is Baghtru beating on the shields of dwarven gods, well, he would know such godly things. A common misunderstanding about orc society is that all orcs worship Gruumsh, and they all kill in his name. Are such things believed about the dwarves, whose god does tell them to fight orcs and goblins and giants, at nigh genocidal intensity? The misunderstanding comes from the orcish practice of god-chiefs, and their natural ferocity. Orcs believe, thanks to the teachings of their elders, that the Chief is the avatar of spiritual perfection within an orcish tribe. be he Gruumsh, Nature, or Erythnul, the orc chieftain is essentially the very god that gives power. This helps to unify orc clans into tribes, as it is difficult for a mortal clan head to argue the decision of the "god", but at the same time creates a reliance. The chief must prove he excels in all areas, or he will lose the support of the priests, and without the priests, what good is a god? This is the main reason orcs so rarely surrender or retreat, is to the average priest of Gruumsh, such things are blasphemous, and any leader who ordered them must be corrupt. This is also the reason it is so hard to unify orcish tribes. You have to prove your god is more god than theirs. Or have noncompeting gods. Orcs form a cult of personality around their leader, and this is the true being they call out to in battle. It is not the god gruumsh they offer their kills to, but rather the god-chief "Gruumsh" that their chief is. When orcish tribes do merge, normally one chief shows themself to be stronger than the other(s), and the cult is restructured around the new god-chief. Orcish Pantheon and descriptions to follow.
bhu 11-15-07, 03:06 AM	Excellent. Soon chapter 1 will be finito. I hope.
DonThelonious 12-07-07, 06:56 PM	Bibbity Bobbity :bump: Raise Thread
Raptorial 01-11-08, 10:26 PM	I have some history and folklore pieces based upon Norse, Mongol, and Hunnic culture, with a bit of Aztec thrown in too. I have tried my best to include all the Orc subspecies I could think of, including the insinuated Scablands Orc...hey, if Sandstorm gives us a Scablands Half-Orc, there must be some full ones too. First up is the history. Basically, when you think Grammla'g, think Tenochtitlan amidst the frozen forests made in Babylonian architectural style. I also left some "fill in the blanks" for anyone who wants to create Orc legends or their own history from "the Dark Times". Grand History of the Orc Race Orcs are a species that has lasted through long ages as a proud warrior breed, surviving the odds of nature and other races to survive. They mark their times as before or after the Fall of Grammla'g ((BFG and AFG respectfully, corresponding with the [not quite sure yet what human mark it would be for the middle here...not sure if our little book has a specific setting mark to make such an event tie)). Below is a basic rounded timeline of events in Orc history. Circa 3,500 BFG-Orc written history begins, evidence of which remains in the pictographs and hieroglyphs of the caves dotting the mountains in the central portions of the major northern continent. At this time, they are still major hunter-gatherers, and mostly live is small tribes that dot the far north regions of the world. 3,250 BFG-Orc tribes first domesticate megaloceros and horses for mounts, beginning the first of the warbeasts. The largest tribe, the Hakatari, begin absorbing tribes that submit and crushing tribes that defy them. Three of these tribes leave for the various warmer lands farther south, eventually spawning the Mistwalkers (the major water Orc clan), the Scale Riders (the major jungle Orc clan) and the Scablands Clan (use desert Orcs for Scablands Orcs). 2,944 BFG-The Hakatari has absorbed or obliterated all other tribes in the areas, creating the first grand clan of the original Orc species. They have started creating structures, permanent buildings, and farmlands. They have also learned to finally reign in the mighty woolly mammoths as beasts of burden to till the fields and transport building materials, as well as acting as warbeasts. 2,820 BFG-After many toiling decades, the grand Orc clan city of Grammla'g is finished. It is the first (and last) major Orc city, a grandiose marvel to rival that of the humans. The city's crowning glory was a triad of massive ziggurats...the center and tallest being the palace of the Clan leader and the shaman, the two flanking ziggurats palaces of sacrifice to Gruumsh. 2,470 BFG-The Orcs that fled from the north have now become distinct subspecies with their own clans..for the most part. The Water Orcs known as the Mistwalkers have begun settling the southern wetlands, and the Scablands Orcs scout the western desert's outlines, somewhat fearful of the large amounts of dwarves with powerful siege weapons that dwell in cities within. What will become the Scale Riders crossed the sea in a makeshift fleet to colonize the uninhabited jungle islands on the southwestern coast of the main north continent. In time, all three will grow and the Scablands Clan will shake off their enemies with force. 3,280 BFG-For reasons unknown, there is a massive gap in Orc literary history during this time, leading human scholars to deem it the Orc Dark Ages. 170 BFG-Grammla'g is in its prime, its people in luxury and splendor as the human and elven nations of the northern lands tremble in fear. Chief Zoggra III organizes a "Great Pillage", in which the finest horse and deermen of the clan ride out in droves to sack nearly every settlement in the north. Their first target: the dwarf city of Dragonforge. 161 BFG-After nearly a decade of fierce conflict, Dragonforge falls, its people nearly nonexistent after the sheer massacre those years brought upon them. Zoggra claims the city as an outpost of the Hakatari, and sack its treasures and holy relics. 158 BFG-Zoggra III and his riders have taken nearly 800 cities and towns now, and dwarves, elves, and humans alike flee to the western lands beyond the Roc's Claw Mountains. 146 BFG-The Mistwalkers Clan has carved out a territory in the farthest mangrove swamps of the deep south coast, driving the merfolk to seek oceans farther north. By this time, the Scablands Clan has done the same to the Badlands dwarves and the painted elves that once shared the Scablands. Both species are taken in by the Asherati in the grand desert at the foot of the west side of the Roc's Claw. Ironically or by fate's hand, the Asherati had already taken in the dwarves, elves, and humans that fled from the Great Pillage. 134 BFG-On all fronts, big changes have begun. Nearing 87 years of age, Zoggra III dies in the saddle from a magic missile barrage to the left lung. Despite all the shamanic youth potions he took in his life, nothing could have saved him from such a fate. A brief day of mourning is soon followed by the obvious question of who will rule the throne. The Mistwalkers split into two, the main "true" Mistwalkers remaining in the mangroves, the others moving to the sandy and rocky coasts further east, making a new clan...the Cliffstriders. The Scale Riders have tamed the jungles and done with the local dinosaurs what the Hakatari did with the warbeasts of the north. Finally, the Scablands Orcs throw away all tradition of their past and, to the chagrin of more than one voice in the crown, thrown away the worship of Gruumsh, instead following Set. The refugees of the Scablands and the Hakatari are not sitting idle either..they have begun to form armies and forces of their own. Soon, the world will all go to Baator in a handbasket... 104 BFG-After many blood-spewing debates, the Orc shaman Graan becomes the next Hakatari chief. 85 BFG-Not showing near the amount of competence as his predecessor, Graan makes a major bumble in attempting to overtake the nation of Bloodfang. The nation had recently been bolstered by a ceasefire treaty between the bugbears, the sahuagin, and the scrag trolls, all three of which had a bone to pick with the Hakatari. The combined force utterly thrashed the Great Pillage hordes, which limped back toward home with only around 1/3 their original numbers. 85 BFG-On their path back towards Grammla'g, Graan and his royal guard are swiftly assassinated by tieflings hired by the bugbear king Tanraldin. The Great Pillage once more breaks down in chaos and disarray as yet again they look for a new leader. 63 BFG-Finally, nearing only 1/4 of its original number, the Great Pillage limps back through the front gates of Grammla'g with its new chief, Kyabb the Ruthless. While the population did grow in their long absence, the people are almost distraught that their beloved Zoggra did not return. Kyabb keeps order for now, but the city is still in unrest from losing nearly half of their pillaged territory to Tanraldin and his kin. 55 BFG-The first signs of darkness are on the horizon. The Cliffstriders are completely obliterated by a clan of wizards they angered...or at least that is what the history books say. In truth, they were cursed by the wizards to "become the savage unkempt sea monkeys they were". While not exactly becoming that, they did change drastically. These were the first of the Hadozee. The Priests of Set in the Scablands were also being torn apart by feuds. Two splinter cults, the Followers of the True Being Gruumsh and the Cult of Apep were both threatening to obliterate religious peace in the clan. 43 BFG-Nearing 46 years of age, Kyabb is showing all the force and strategic prowess that made Zoggra a great leader and the lack of which made Graan a horrible one. Smelling war on the horizon, Kyabb forged a pact with none other than Asmodeus himself for protection of the clan and longevity and eternal youth for himself. All Asmodeus asked in return were Orcs to use to create more lesser fiends for him. 30 BFG-The two outposts bordering the eastern edge of the Roc's Claw Mountains were both in flames, without apparent rhyme or reason. Kyabb, in big showman fashion, stated that they were destroyed because Gruumsh was displeased, and demanded more sacrifices. Soon, any Orc over 80 was decreed to be sacrificed for "the greater cause", each elderly individual brought up to the alter and "slain for Gruumsh". In truth, each was just a glamour act, appearing to be death, but in truth actually paralyzing the victims to be given to Asmodeus to become strong and revitalized pieces of the army. 25 BFG-Finally, the seeds of war had begun to stir. Kyabb surely foresaw the fact from the fallen outposts, and he was prepared. An army of orcs was joined with hell hounds, pit fiends, and other beasts given by Asmodeus to his current favored pawn in preparation for the battle. In the west, the Asherati and refugee humans, dwarves, elves, and gnomes of all kinds and origins were banding together to battle as well. They had also done bartering, but of a more moral sort. In exchange for goods and trade routes, they had allies with the Gold and Silver Dragon Empires. 17-1 BFG-Finally, the war had begun. Sword and strength, steel and sinew, the battles were slowly being waged across the northern continent. It was basically a stalemate for all this time, the two nations keeping the other at bay and never really crossing the lines of territory with more than a few captures villages here and there. Finally, in 6 BFG, that all changed. With the late arrival of the Dragon Empires after much deliberation to coax the Bronze and Coppers into the fight, the draconic breeds sent their most powerful clerics to beat the fiends down into submission, and it worked. December 31, 1 BFG-Finally, at the climax of the war, all that was left was a bunch of orcs and some scattered fiends holed up in their final stronghold of Grammla'g. Asmodeus, favoring survival over pride in this case, pulled all his support, leaving a cursing Kyabb and his battered and bruised army to guard alone. By noon, the city was sieged. By sunset, the army's contents were dead or dying. In a final stand, Kyabb fought off an adult copper dragon the best he could, but eventually his armor was rended, as was his flesh. While he thought he had figured out everything, he made the same mistake as the great Zoggra...he protected his flesh from youth, but not from the sword or the spell. At midnight, the Nation Army celebrated amidst the empty ruins that were once Grammla'g. 1 AFG-Grammla'g was refurbished as Iylnadrak, dwarven for "City of Hope". The once mighty Hakatari were no more, and the remaining clans of "true" Orcs were scattered to the four winds. Without scholars of the Orc city to keep all records in one place, there was yet another "Dark Age" in literature from then on. 1,890 AFG-The present times, the time of the various Orc clans being seen as either enemies or allies, sometimes with old hatred still burning. The "true" Orcs were truly scattered, some making clans in the various other continents wherever they could away from other races, some becoming new species to deal with harsh environments (Fire Orcs being a good example), others attempting to embrace other species to "fit in". The Scale Riders are still mostly to their own will, no other species dealing with them, while the Mistwalkers were slowly pushed out in the past once more by the merfolk, finally settling in an island chain to the northwest where they attempt to grudgingly coexist with the Darfellans. The Scablands are now three separate tribes in the now abandoned great desert, the Scablanders of Gruumsh, the Scablanders of Set, and the Scablanders of Set.
DrDragon 01-25-08, 10:57 PM	Also Do Orcs Hate Goblinoids?
bhu 01-26-08, 01:11 AM	Also Do Orcs Hate Goblinoids? they're prolly rivals
Raptorial 01-26-08, 04:29 PM	My basic premise when I was writing the war of the bugbears and orcs was that the bugbear major nation is like the Saracens, and you have the Aztec-Hun Crusaders from the orc lands of Grammla'g attempting to drive them away from lands they see as rightfully theirs. Neither side is truly at fault, it was just a matter of the nature of two huge race nations with species as militant as the bugbears and orcs. Speaking of which, here is another Aztec-inspired orc idea. COMINGSOON Orc Sport: Ulama In the modern time, orc clans of what was once the Hakatari still practice an ancient ritual sport game that is even practiced by the long-isolated Scale Riders as a piece of their history. While it is unknown exactly what the original name of the game was before the Fall of Grammla'g, most call the game by the human-given name of ulama. The game is played by the toughest orc warriors of a tribe gathering on two teams on the ancient Courts of Gruumsh and using a heavy clay ball and their hips to earn points by slamming the ball through the ceremonial hoop. Ulama Warriors are usually heavily calloused and bruised due to the weight of the ball, and carry their war wounds of the court proudly, knowing they triumphed over the opposing team in a spiritual combat. While the typical stakes are control over both clan lands by the chief of the winning clan's team, there are times when the game is more of a battle. Once every year, on the winter solstice, an ulama tournament is held and all the scattered clans of Hakatari gather to participate. The winning team gives their chief control of the Staff of Hakatari until the next winter solstice, and the losing teams all give five of their players to be blood sacrifices to the gods. New Major Artifact: Staff of Hakatari The ruling staff of the very first chieftain of the Hakatari people, the Staff of Hakatari is a a blood-colored wooden staff adorned with magically shrunken dragon skull legendary symbol of power and status. It is said that it was forged from the wood of a treant deity slain by the very spear of Gruumsh, the reason it never rots, with a skull on top of a great wyrm gold dragon that legend says once aided elven races to oppose the orcs before the First Chief of Hakatari slew the beast. It is also said the First Chief enslaved the trolls of the Far North and tamed the storms with this ancient wonder. The Staff of Hakatari is treated as an unholy darkwood quarterstaff for purposes of combat, and also has the following abilities. Aura of Gruumsh's Rage: Gives the wielder a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks against elves, metallic dragons, and treants. Bolt-snap Swing: Three times per day, the staff may be swung to cast call lightning as a 14th level Druid. Bolt-crash Swing: Once per day, the staff may be swung to cast call lightning storm as a 14th level Druid. Troll-binder: Once per month, the staff may be used to summon a Troll Barbarian 18 into combat for the wielder.
bhu 01-30-08, 02:56 AM	Aww but i thought orc sports would invlve bashing each other :P
Raptorial 01-30-08, 04:01 PM	Just imagine what that 10-pound clay ball might do if it just so happens to "miss" and hit a head instead of a hip. ;)
Obsidianjaerc 01-30-08, 04:09 PM	1d4+Str? :P
Ekko 01-30-08, 04:24 PM	Probably. Though it might be 1d4+STR plus 1d6 fire. You never know.
Raptorial 01-31-08, 08:44 PM	The basic concept behind orcs playing ulama is that, from what I've read, Teotihuacanos and Aztecs that played the game would be nearly perpetually bruised around the hip from the large balls. I imagine sports injury such as that would be worn as badges of honor by a species such as an orc. Anyway, I have some specific fluff I thought up for one of the orc subspecies from Unearthed Arcana. Scale Rider Clan: The Jungle Orcs Atypical from their fellow orcs, the Scale Riders have a less militant culture and an almost druidic respect of nature. They were ousted from the ancestral land of the Hakatari long ago, and eventually went down their own seperate path in nearly every aspect of their lives. The Scale Riders practice ritualistic combat, but doing so clad in the hides of the great saurians that dwell in the rainforest around them to prevent serious injury. Scale Riders rarely if ever attack other species, save for their lifelong enemies, the Rapscallions. For reasons that no one quite fully understands, the Scale Riders seem to abhor furred primates, truly showing combat ferocity and unbridled rage when attacking creatures such as apes and Sasquatch. Amidst the clan, there is a hierarchy marked by the prowess against the beasts of the jungle and plains of their islands. The only way to become chieftain of a Scale Rider tribe is to either slay or time a massive theropod such as tyrannosaurus rex. Nobles usually have multiple deinonychus "pets" in their creature pens, an elite warrior will more often than not wield a triceratops skull as a shield, and the most revered shamans are the ones that can wildshape into the biggest and most ferocious dinosaurs. Even in war, the Scale Riders utilize domesticated dinosaurs and prehistoric reptiles, considering any other creature "a disgrace toward the Art of Battle". Scale Rider foot-soldiers are almost always half-orcs captured from civilization, since any "true Rider" would never be caught dead upon foot instead of atop a beast. Enlaced with elaborate tattoos of blue and gold, the Scale Rider half-orcs are trained from birth to be combatants that will fight to the death. They are the head of the spear in the rare times of Scale Rider war, raging across the field with the purpose of "Berserker intimidation" and carving up the weakest to allow the beast handlers and war shamans to rend the rest. The biggest aid of the Riders are the fact that their mounts tend to invoke sheer terror. A tyrannosaur "horse" or brachiosaurus "tank" in battle is an excellent psychological warfare tool.
Legdiwena 01-31-08, 09:16 PM	I thought the Aztecs played it as a form of basketball with an upright stone circle for the goal?
Raptorial 01-31-08, 10:37 PM	It is indeed somewhat like that, but from frescoes in Teotihuacan and various locations, and even modern ulama rules (played with a slightly smaller 8 lb. ball), it is apparently a big foul to be using your hands to get a goal, which are supposed to be scored by swinging the hip and hitting the ball into the goal with it. The Maya were probably less bruised in their games, because they created a loin cloth-hip pad garment that could have probably added protection. Orcs, however, would probably rather go toe to toe without the pads.
Legdiwena 02-01-08, 11:23 AM	Learn more ancient history in DnD than school, lol.
Raptorial 02-01-08, 11:33 PM	I tend to ramble about history a lot. I actually watched full season 1 and 2 of History Channel's Digging for the Truth as entertainment. That's where I first saw actual ulama being played outside of frescoes shown in various historical books on my shelf.
bhu 02-05-08, 03:19 AM	So anyone interested in being an editor now that we have some stuff to piece together?
Raptorial 02-05-08, 02:29 PM	I would volunteer, but I have the bad habit of making more typos while attempting to edit them. :P
ciaran 02-07-08, 12:07 AM	I didn't want to read the existing three pages of posts, but I wanted to add that in my campaigns I give Orcs and 1/2 Orcs Toughness as a bonus feat. Just a bone I throw to the PCs.
Divisionbyzer0 02-28-08, 02:18 AM	Okay, assuming you meant full orcs let me explain this. Orcs and humans do not look alike, at all. AT ALL. Orcs are big and brawny with snouts, tusks, jutting jaws, sloping foreheads, pointy ears, and green (in some interpretations gray) skin. Humans are comparitvely scrawny and have long, pointy noses, no tusks, a comparitvely small jaw (That DOESN'T protrude further then their upper lip), rounded foreheads, round ears, and skin that ranges from a pale white to dark brown. Based on how different they are from orcs, one would think orcs would find humans to be just as ugly as humans find orcs. The best explanation is orcs just do it for the sake of doing it, I guess. Doing it for the sake of doing it isn't really a very good explanation. Where there are differences, there's taboo, and where there's taboo there is bound to be some secret desires. While Orcs don't have much time for beauty or subtlety in a life that is geared around short term survival it doesn't mean they don't have a core that can't appreciate it even if they may vocally express disdain for it. The races may appreciate the extreme differences as being in a way complementary. Orcs are straightfowards aggressive, single minded psychologically, physically dominating, wheras humans are more diplomatic, more flexible of mind, slight of build, live longer easier lives. If you truly hate something there is often reason behind it, perhaps because you see your own weaknesses in their reflection. Hate and love can come round in the extremes. I can imagine Orcs also often spread their seed on raids, which could serve several purposes: short term satisfaction of pleasure, as well as a way to undermine other races from the inside by corrupting their purity with orc blood instead of just killing them. You could also imagine that not all Orcs are evil, so you could secret relationships forming here and there. PS: I'm thinking of running a Grey Orc cleric, or an some Orc cleric of some sort or another and I'm looking for some conceptual ideas at this point, resources on how to build and play such a character, as I've never played a cleric before. I always let others take that role in 2nd edition and have only run one character, a half-orc reincarnated as full Orc barbarian / ranger, in 3.5. I figured these races of the hoard pages probably have some ideas, but if someone could point me to some specifics that would be of use for clerics that would be most appreciated. :D
SilverFoxKnows 02-29-08, 01:52 PM	I run mainly homebrew, and don't have racial pantheons, but have given some thought to their organization. I'll start with the Greys. The crunch is straight from the books. But let me give a little taste of the flavor, by tribe. The BloodAxe- These are your stereotypical Orcs (hey, stereotypes have their oirgin somewhere). They are the largest single tribe. Unruly, aggressive, dim witted and cruel. They fight in a hectic mob fashion and are unlikely to trade with other races. The FireHorns- A smaller tribe said to be descended from devils. Most of them do not have outsider blood running through their veins but it is undeniable that their leaders do. Tieflings, Fiendish (template & Bloodlines) and Half Fiend Orcs are a common sight amongst the elite warriors & war chiefs. Rumored to be connected with (insert Evil Deity here). As a whole they are far more intelligent and organized than their "lesser" brothers. The NightSpears- A smaller tribe on the border of Hobgoblin lands. They have learned much from their hostile neighbors. They are more cautious and organized then the BloodAxe, more likely to trade and less likey to rush into suicidal fights. PreyRunners- A smaller tribe, more neutral in their outlook, they seldom wage wars. But they are territorial. Any who wander into their hunting grounds had best be cautious. Will trade on occasion with trappers, miners and other fringe dwellers.
irbaboon 03-11-08, 11:12 AM	I love this thread:D Has anything like it been done for the goblinoids?
bhu 03-11-08, 02:38 PM	Yeah there were separate threads for Orcs, Goblins, Bugbears, and Hobgoblins. This is the one that seemed to get attention though.
irbaboon 03-11-08, 04:01 PM	can you give me links to those threads?
bhu 03-12-08, 12:53 AM	can you give me links to those threads? http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=867241&highlight=Races+of+Savagery%3A+Goblins hobgoblins http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=867243&highlight=Races+of+Savagery%3A+Goblins bugbears http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=867238&highlight=Races+of+Savagery%3A+Goblins goblins
Midnight_v 06-09-08, 09:39 AM	So.. no one ever organized this fully?
dulsi 06-13-08, 12:12 PM	From Ponce_LeRue's Children of Gruumsh pdf over at the Giant in the Playground site: Gruumsh Ranger Substitution Levels Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting Save Save Save 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Indiscriminate, Track, Wild Empathy As Ranger 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat Style As Ranger 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Child of Scorn As Ranger Indiscriminate A Gruumsh Ranger does not waste his time or his potential specializing in a particular type of enemy. His current enemy is his favoured enemy. The Gruumsh ranger may specify a unique individual to be the target of his indiscriminate ability, gaining a +2 bonus on damage rolls against the creature, and on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks against that creature. These effects persist for 24 hours, at which point the Gruumsh Ranger may specify a new favoured enemy, refresh the old specification, or hold it in reserve. Specifying a favoured enemy is a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. When the Gruumsh Ranger would gain additional favoured enemies, all the normal bonuses occur, except that he instead is able to hold one additional favoured enemy at a time. Combat Style The ranger may opt to enter a third, two-handed fighting style tree. If he does so, he is treated as having the Power Attack feat at second level. He does not gain anything for improved combat style or combat style mastery. Child of Scorn In place of the Endurance feat, a Gruumsh Ranger may gain the Child of Scorn feat at third level. Feat Child of Scorn [General] A lifetime of brutal living in a harsh society crouched in the wild has kept you hungry, but in doing so has hardened your body and will in ways one cannot otherwise achieve. Benefit: The amount of time you can last without incurring damage due to starvation or thirst is doubled. Ability damage or drain from a single source to any of your physical ability scores is reduced by 1 point. Dulsi's comments: Combat Style I'm thinking Improved Bull Rush for Improved Combat Style and Improved Overrun for Combat Style Mastery when the two-handed fighting style is chosen Child of Scorn I don't particularly like this feature. I'm not sure what to do instead.
dulsi 06-13-08, 12:23 PM	From Ponce_LeRue's Children of Gruumsh pdf over at the Giant in the Playground site: Gruumsh Sorcerer Substitution Levels Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting Save Save Save 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Ability Boost (Cha +2) As Sorcerer 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Blaze the Horde As Sorcerer 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Carnage Magic As Sorcerer Ability Boost The sorcerer gains a +2 bonus to charisma at level 1. This replaces his ability to summon a familiar. Blaze the Horde The sorcerer becomes capable of expending small amounts of his magical potency to embolden those around him, increasing their battle prowess. By expending a spell slot, the sorcerer can grant all those allies within 10 feet of him a bonus on all melee and ranged damage rolls equal to the level of the spell slot sacrificed. This bonus lasts until the beginning of the sorcerer's next turn. To gain this ability, the sorcerer must permanently sacrifice on of his second level spell slots. Carnage Magic You learn to utilize the lifeblood of fallen foes to increase the strength of you magic. You can extract the heart or other vital organ from a living creature as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Doing so requires that you occupy the same square as the opponent (or whatever square his heart would reside, if he is oversized). You cannot perform this act more than once on the same fallen opponent. The opponent must be dead for this to work. After it is extracted, you can add it as a component to any of your spells. Doing so expends the heart, but increases the DC for that spell by 2. The heart must still have flowing within it the warmth of life and the adrenaline of battle, right up to the moment of death. This means that the heart can only be used as a component in this manner for 1 minute after the time of extraction for every HD of the creature it was extracted from. You cannot use a heart in this manner from a creature who had fewer HD than your character level – 2. To gain this ability, the sorcerer must permanently sacrifice one of his fourth level spell slots. Dulsi's comments: Ability boost seems like a powerful trade for not getting a familiar but we are talking an orc here. Carnage Magic is an interesting idea but the rules seem overly complicated. Maybe something along the lines of you touch a living creature that has -1 or fewer hit points. If the subject fails its saving throw, it dies and the DC of all spells cast by the sorcerer is increased by 2 for 1 min per HD of the subject creature.
dulsi 06-13-08, 02:28 PM	From Ponce_LeRue's Children of Gruumsh pdf over at the Giant in the Playground site: Gruumsh Cleric Substitution Levels Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting Save Save Save 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Orc Domain, Terrible Petitioner As Cleric Orc Domain You gain access to the Orc Domain as a bonus domain. Terrible Petitioner You gain the use of the frightful presence ability. Whenever you attack or charge, all opponents within a radius of 30 feet who have fewer levels or Hit Dice than you become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d6 + your Wis modifier. The effect is negated by a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Str modifier). A successful save indicates that the opponent is immune to your frightful presence for 24 hours. These abilities replace the cleric's ability to turn or rebuke undead. Dulsi's comments: I like the Terrible Petitioner ability but it doesn't list a number of times it is usable per day. I'm thinking usable a number of times equal to turn/rebuke undead. I'm inclined to drop the bonus Orc domain. Still needs another two levels to fill it out I think.
Divisionbyzer0 06-14-08, 01:51 AM	Goblin defense fund: http://www.goblindefensefund.org/petition.html A little late but worth signing anyway for those of us who enjoy monstrous humanoids, and dislike the consistent racist, imperialist, black and white unsubstantiated prejudices against monstrous races that are seen time and again in the books, and adventures. There's some real gems on this site as the author traces the history of racism against goblinoids from 1974 till 2008: Perhaps the less that is said about the alignment switch from ‘lawful evil’ to ‘chaotic’, the better. Clearly, if these quick-and-easy alignment labels had any meaning at all, Goblinkind would not be ‘lawful’ in 1978 and ‘chaotic’ a mere five years later. One’s worldviews simply do not change that rapidly, or are we to assume that all of Goblinkind attended college in a foreign country in the intervening years? On the other hand, perhaps something did happen, because the short-but-snappily-dressed goblin from 1974 (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/gobbies/beard2.gif)suddenly became “very ugly”. Rat-like, no doubt, given that their eyes are red, and “glow when there is little light.” And yet a goblin does not “save” as a Rat, but as a Normal Man. This is telling; one is reminded of the World War II propaganda in which the Chinese (our allies at the time) were depicted as . . . well, human, while the Japanese were depicted as buck-toothed squinty-eyed rat-folk. (http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/posters.html) it would be impossible to exaggerate the depths to which the authors sink in this entry. It begins with a cheap shot, indicating the intelligence of the fine goblin race as “Average (low)”. This odd parenthetical addition to what would otherwise be an accurate description of goblin intelligence meets its match later on in the entry: “Goblins are fair miners and are able to note new or unusual construction 25% of the time. They hate gnomes and dwarves and attack them in preference to any other creature. All goblins are slave takers and fond of torture.” The passage starts sanely enough, commenting on goblins’ excellent mining ability, but then it descends into a bizarre non-sequitur, claiming that not only to goblins hate dwarves, but gnomes as well. One might, as we did above, attribute this to the undeniable fact that gnomes and dwarves will also always attack goblins on sight, but the author’s true colors are on display in the third sentence. Slave takers and fond of torture. Indeed. These (supposedly) borderline retarded creatures, weaker than gnomes and dwarves, with lower hit points and a worse armor class, are somehow suddenly capable of taking and keeping slaves? We remain skeptical, dear Reader, as should you. The slurs continue, of course: “The concept of a fair fight is meaningless in their society. They favor ambushes, overwhelming odds, dirty tricks, and any other edge they can devise . . . goblins have a poor grasp of strategy and are cowardly by nature, tending to flee the field if a battle turns against them.” Indeed. Cowardly swine, attacking from the bushes, fleeing when the battle turns against them. For shame. Clearly, a “poor grasp of strategy.” Nothing like elves . . . From the 3E Monster Manual: “Elves are cautious warriors . . . maximizing their advantage by using ambushes, snipers, and camouflage. They prefer to fire from cover and retreat before they are found, repeating this maneuver until all of their enemies are dead.” It’s good to know that “firing from cover and retreating . . . until all of their enemies are dead” does not count as a dirty trick. interestingly, goblins as well as orcs lost their mining expertise in 3+ editions. a$$hole designers.
bhu 06-14-08, 04:22 AM	Wow. You guys have been busy!!
dulsi 06-17-08, 12:14 PM	For the ranger substitution levels I think I'll drop level 3. Add a level 8 substitution which changes swift tracker for trackless step. The orcs aren't as interested in tracking as ambushing.
Divisionbyzer0 06-17-08, 10:14 PM	From Ponce_LeRue's Children of Gruumsh pdf over at the Giant in the Playground site: Gruumsh Ranger Substitution Levels Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting Save Save Save 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Indiscriminate, Track, Wild Empathy As Ranger 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat Style As Ranger 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Child of Scorn As Ranger Indiscriminate A Gruumsh Ranger does not waste his time or his potential specializing in a particular type of enemy. His current enemy is his favoured enemy. The Gruumsh ranger may specify a unique individual to be the target of his indiscriminate ability, gaining a +2 bonus on damage rolls against the creature, and on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks against that creature. These effects persist for 24 hours, at which point the Gruumsh Ranger may specify a new favoured enemy, refresh the old specification, or hold it in reserve. Specifying a favoured enemy is a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. When the Gruumsh Ranger would gain additional favoured enemies, all the normal bonuses occur, except that he instead is able to hold one additional favoured enemy at a time. Combat Style The ranger may opt to enter a third, two-handed fighting style tree. If he does so, he is treated as having the Power Attack feat at second level. He does not gain anything for improved combat style or combat style mastery. Child of Scorn In place of the Endurance feat, a Gruumsh Ranger may gain the Child of Scorn feat at third level. Feat Child of Scorn [General] A lifetime of brutal living in a harsh society crouched in the wild has kept you hungry, but in doing so has hardened your body and will in ways one cannot otherwise achieve. Benefit: The amount of time you can last without incurring damage due to starvation or thirst is doubled. Ability damage or drain from a single source to any of your physical ability scores is reduced by 1 point. Dulsi's comments: Combat Style I'm thinking Improved Bull Rush for Improved Combat Style and Improved Overrun for Combat Style Mastery when the two-handed fighting style is chosen Child of Scorn I don't particularly like this feature. I'm not sure what to do instead. Nah, I'd give headlong rush, and combat brute, or perhaps the powerful build feature. Headlong rush is itself an orc-blooded only feat as well. Scent wouldn't be a bad ability either for an orc ranger. I'd give scent instead of child of scorn.
dulsi 06-18-08, 02:53 PM	Nah, I'd give headlong rush, and combat brute, or perhaps the powerful build feature. Headlong rush is itself an orc-blooded only feat as well. Scent wouldn't be a bad ability either for an orc ranger. I'd give scent instead of child of scorn. Headlong rush is an idea. Unfornately we can't reprint the feat so users would have to have a book with it or find it on wizards excerpt from Races of Faerun like I did. I'm personaly not fond of doing that. Headlong rush also doesn't seem like a good idea for a low hit point ranger. Combat brute is in a similar situation. I also dislike the tactical feats so I'm even less inclined to use this one. Powerful build? Hmm... I'll think about that. Kinda worried of power level of that. As for scent, the power level is again a concern for me.
Divisionbyzer0 06-18-08, 10:11 PM	The strongarm style uses Improved sunder, and great cleave. Flay is something to consider. Kind of flavored for a ranger too.
bhu 06-18-08, 11:03 PM	Flay only works on unarmored targets doesnt it?
Divisionbyzer0 06-19-08, 01:57 PM	Hmm I think you are right. Lot of the monsters don't wear armor anyhow, but I suppose it is of limited use considering that some do.
JulesCARV 06-19-08, 06:27 PM	Well, I did a bit of writing on orcs. One is a post I did on a general thread I had on the idea of a campaign with an orcish domain under paladin-lead human occupation. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15800274) Space_Dragon asked me a bit about how I imagined orcs. Hmm... I guess my view of orcs is that they're basically "orcs as in the Monster Manual, but extrapolated and fleshed out a bit." Everything that the MM says about orcs is basically true, but that's too little to go on, so there's more as well. -Orcs are not inherently chaotic evil aligned, as a matter of biology. However, they do inherently have tendencies toward violence, aggression, and domineering behavior, and inherently show little inclination toward compassion or cooperation. There is individual variation, of course. Although this is a bit too "scientific" an explanation for D&D, the best way I've thought of phrasing it is: orcs are kinda like humans, but they have more of the violence/domination/aggression promoting hormones (like testosterone) and fewer sympathy/bonding promoting hormones (like oxytocin). Well, one needn't actually use such a pseudoscientific explanation, but at any rate, that's the idea: they're not inherently CE, and a lot of their evil behavior comes from their evil culture, but there's a biological basis too, if not of evil, at least of some behaviors widely considered antisocial. -Culturally, orcs have two dominant sources of authority: the clan system (headed by chiefs (usually barbarians, sometimes fighters, warriors, etc)), and the faith of Gruumsh (headed by priests (usually clerics, sometimes favored souls, adepts, etc)). These two sources of authority are often in some degree of conflict, but overall, the faith of Gruumsh reinforces the clan system (priests legitimize chiefs, give them blessings, etc), and the warlords are generally at least nominally (and sometimes fervently) Gruumsh-worshippers, and respect the priests in religious matters. -In the clan system, honor is everything. Blood feuds among the clans continue endlessly; revenge is not merely a desire among the aggrieved, but an obligation for those seeking to retain their honor. (There is a custom by which feuds can be settled, through the assent of both clans, with the help of a third-party mediator. In addition, councils among delegates from all local orc clans are sometimes called (on a roughly once-a-decade basis), to settle matters of honor with various payments and injunctions agreed upon by the majority of delegates while wiping the slate of blood feuds clean. However, neither really work in practice often, and feuds often quickly resume after having nominally been resolved.) Generally, the orc sense of honor calls for highly disproportionate revenge: "three of them for every one of us" is a widely accepted formula for revenge among orcs. Naturally, this exacerbates smaller incidents into wars. Other aspects of honor include the "purity" of a clan's females: female orcs' lives are under the control of clan chiefs and elders, who decide which male (within the clan or to an allied clan) they will be given to. If a female orc and a male orc from rival clans have sex, they're both killed (strangulation is most common). If a male orc from a rival clan rapes a female orc, it makes no difference (consent is irrelevant): they're both killed. Being a rape victim at the hands of a clan rival is a stain on the clan's honor which death can cleanse. (If an orc female is in a relationship approved by her clan elders, the concept of rape doesn't even really exist within the relationship.) Homosexuality is an abomination to orcs. Lesbians, as per the honor system, are generally strangled to death if discovered. Gay males of low status are generally treated similarly. High status gay males, such as gay clan chiefs, can usually get away with what they want (as with straight clan chiefs' relationships with female orcs, they are not too picky about whether their lower-status male partners consent.) Another important aspect of clan honor is the guest/host relationship. Guest and host must never betray each other: even if a host finds that his guest is a wanted criminal, so long as the guest is a guest, the host is obliged to protect him. Some orcish folktales tell of orc heroes who, when hosting a guest, discover that the guest has killed someone dear to them (such as a brother). The acute tension between the demands of guest-host honor and the demands of honorable vengeance often drive such stories. Honor is obtained by success in combat, against other orcs and against other races. Adventurer is one of the most honored occupations among orcs. Orcish adventurers travel to human, elven, goblin, or other settlements, in teams of barbarians, clerics of Gruumsh, rogues, and sorcerers, slaughtering those they find indiscriminantly, seizing whatever valuables they can, and enslaving those they can to take back as valued slaves. Veteran orcish adventurers have gruesome trophy rooms filled with the impaled, tarred heads of formidable human knights, the honey-preserved corpses of elven wizards, and other trophies. Loss of honor by failing to adhere to these codes effectively turns a clan or individual into "fair game" in the eyes of other orcs or orc clans. Someone whose honor is agreed to have been lost no longer requires being avenged by his clan if he is killed. Honoring any alliances or truces with a dishonored clan becomes strictly optional. A clan or person considered to have lost his honor is unlikely to survive long before his lands, goods, and females are taken and partitioned among other orcs, and males enslaved, killed, or sent into vagabond exile. -The Faith of Gruumsh is somewhat in conflict with the clan honor system, because the faith of Gruumsh regards orcs as the chosen race, destined to conquer the world. To this end, many practices mandated by the clan honor codes are counterproductive. Blood feuds waste orcish time and lives with conflicts among orcs, when they ought to be fighting and killing other races. The murderous misogyny of the clan honor system is likewise at odds with the Gruumshian faith's more pragmatic form of sexism, which regards honor killings as a waste of resources, and believes that female orcs should be kept alive and pregnant with more future warriors and breeders, not killed in the name of clan honor and purity. Overall, the faith of Gruumsh's central credo might be summarized as "peace within the race, war against all others." Naturally, actual orcs, constantly at war with each other, fall far short of this ideal. Nonetheless, the priests of Gruumsh are hardly less clannish and fractious than other orcs, and they can be found on both sides of any reasonably large intra-orc feud. Still, the priests of Gruumsh sometimes attempt to put a moderating influence on intra-orc feuds, which sometimes puts them in conflict with clan chiefs who seek to preserve their honor with massive and disproportionate revenge for any slight. The Faith of Gruumsh generally demands blood sacrifices. Animals suffice. Humanoids are better. Orcs who commit crimes against the race are also considered good sacrifices (volunteering to be sacrificed is a highly pious form of atonement, and is considered to wipe away an orc's crimes in Gruumsh's eyes, but the priests of Gruumsh have no problems forcibly sacrificing condemned orcs if they do not volunteer.) -Orcish culture is generally bloodthirsty. Gladiatorial fights, among slaves and among orcish volunteers spoiling for a fight, are a common form of entertainment. Animal-oriented bloodsports, such as dogfights and cockfights, are also common as a cheaper, more casual form of entertainment. There was also a "Mature Topics" thread on half-orcs (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-754593), where I did a bit of speculation on half-orc origins. In a campaign world that's whirling around in my head but of which I haven't written, one reason for half-orcs is rape, usually (although not always) orc male on human female. Another reason for half-orcs is that expatriate orcs living in human cities are diproportionately female, and sometimes have sex with or marry non-orc males. In the traditional orc homelands, orcs follow violent, honor-obsessed, and horrendously misogynistic clan codes of honor. Orc clans are engaged in constant blood feuds with each other. A traditional orc patriarch will respond to his daughter and an orc male from a rival clan having sex by killing both his daughter and the rival orc male. Consent is irrelevant -- if a rival orc male rapes his daughter, he'll still kill both the rival orc male and his daughter, to ensure his honor. If he marries off his daughter to someone in a friendly orc clan, consent is likewise irrelevant: he approves, so it doesn't matter if she likes it or doesn't. Not all orcs of either sex like this system, needless to say, but the honor code means that anyone who violates it loses a lot of prestige, support, and could be exiled and stripped of all possessions. The clergy of Gruumsh has been trying to change this system, to some extent. They believe that orcs are the chosen race, destined to conquer the world, so orcs should spend a lot less time killing each other and more time conquering the world. Gruumsh's clergy also is extremely sexist, but sees females less as symbols of clan honor or purity that must be destroyed if defiled than as breeding machines for warriors. According to Gruumsh's religion, orcs must stop fighting each other and work together, stop honor-killing females and keep them alive and pregnant, and start fighting everyone else more, pillaging and enslaving other races. As a result, clan patriarchs (usually barbarians) are frequently at odds with the clergy of Gruumsh (usually clerics), although clan patriarchs are usually Gruumsh-worshippers who pay at least lip service to the clergy and the clergy of Gruumsh usually do not openly defy the patriarchs in matters of clan rulership and play some role in legitimizing the clan system overall. Either way, regardless of whether traditional clan honor codes or Gruumshian theocracy holds sway, life for orcs is tough. The males have it pretty bad, with few dying of old age and most forced through their code of honor to live lives of constant violence, but the females have it worse. A number of orcs, as a result, have emigrated from their clan homelands to more liberal, civilized areas. Orc neighborhoods can be found in metropolitan areas in the countries that will accept them. Females disproportionately flee from orc clans, so orc expatriate communities have a sex imbalance. To a small extent, this is ameliorated by polygyny, an import from the orc clans. Some orc females, however, are unwilling to duplicate the institutions from which they fled in the new lands where they sought freedom. Some don't marry. Some come out as lesbians (something not well tolerated in the orc homelands). Some marry males other races, such as humans. Expatriate orc males also sometimes marry human females, although this is rarer, since expatriate orc males face favorable odds among orc females.
Divisionbyzer0 06-19-08, 10:44 PM	Adventurer is one of the most honored occupations among orcs. Orcish adventurers travel to human, elven, goblin, or other settlements, in teams of barbarians, clerics of Gruumsh, rogues, and sorcerers, slaughtering those they find indiscriminantly, seizing whatever valuables they can, and enslaving those they can to take back as valued slaves. So essentially they are always sociopaths but they aren't always evil?? That's some funny definition of evil you've got there. ;) While you add some detail I don't see where your writeup does much more than a typical monster manual entry. I challenge someone to come up with a writeup on orcish culture that challenges the stereotypes in all the official works. The best thus far is the fact they are no longer automatically retards by virtue of no races getting negatives to their stats, hence no negatives to all the mental stats.
JulesCARV 06-19-08, 11:28 PM	So essentially they are always sociopaths but they aren't always evil?? That's some funny definition of evil you've got there. ;) What? They're usually chaotic evil. The ones who aren't chaotic evil (or possibly neutral evil) don't become adventurers who kill, loot, and enslave other races. The best thus far is the fact they are no longer automatically retards by virtue of no races getting negatives to their stats, hence no negatives to all the mental stats. This is a previous editions forum. You'll notice that the forum is "Wizards Community > Dungeons & Dragons > D&D Previous Editions > Monsters and Races." So we haven't switched to 4e around here. If you want to discuss 4e monsters and races, though, there is a 4e monster forum. (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=703) So Orcs do have -2 to all mental ability scores. They're not all retards, though. An old orc is still on par with a young adult human, and 14 int orcs exist as surely as 16 int humans.
bhu 06-19-08, 11:30 PM	Ive always thought Orcs were generally only evil because the God thy worshipped was evil and their society had come to be ruled by blind religious fanatics who killed off anyone who disagreed with them. That and the "half orcs resulting from rape" stigma always struck me as ethnic cleansing similar to whats been done in Kosovo. Somehow their society let the most xenophobic, racist, and intolerant individuals gain control. Of course since Gruumsh is real i ntheir world and he supports that worldview thats no surprise. To turn away from evil they have to reject the one who is supposed to be their creator. Not so easy to do since he happens to be real and does intervene directly in the lives of mortals.
Divisionbyzer0 06-20-08, 12:43 AM	I know theres boards for 4e Im just saying that's a very nonprejudicial thing to remove all the mental stat penalties from the "monstrous" races. I'm pleased to see them getting real "racial powers" other than darkvision and mining too. Dwarves have a whole page of stuff and Orcs got "light blindness" and a net negative to their stats. Not very fair really. Personally I'm not really interested in 4e myself, I was just mentioning that as a "score!" for people who like orcs. They could have did better and given them bonuses to perception and survival but they didnt. That's not a bad interpretation. I'd go an entire shift though. Orcs are actively persecuted by propaganda, not allowed into cities, and attacked on site by the civilized races who fear them. This is a consequence of the Orc Pantheon being laughed out of the divying up of the globe by the deities of the other races (this is in official material somewhere... the Gruumsh being laughed at and not given any land for his people (and being called ONE EYE... prejudices based on shallow appearances :D... him blasting out some plains forests and mountains into wastelands where no one but the orcs would be able to live in) If I ever bother DMing I'm going to take the line that they are attacked even in the wastelands by civilized races since they didn't succeed at denying gruumsh a place for orcs when he blasted out some of their lands despite being denyed. They fight to survive, they raid when they can because fcuk it, those they raid want them dead anyhow since they are just seen as ugly dumb monsters.
dulsi 06-20-08, 10:34 AM	I challenge someone to come up with a writeup on orcish culture that challenges the stereotypes in all the official works. The best thus far is the fact they are no longer automatically retards by virtue of no races getting negatives to their stats, hence no negatives to all the mental stats. Well, 4th edition has adventurers as a cut above the normal members of the population (or at least most races) so it doesn't neccessarily tell you about a typical member of the population. EDIT: BTW Divisionbyzer0 took a look at your Savage Blade PrC and gave some comments in the thread.
dulsi 06-30-08, 05:35 PM	Some Luthic religion thoughts: Cleric Training: Females with a gift for tending wounds or childbearing are offered trainning by senior clerics. Male clerics to Luthic are extremely rare and othen treated as heretics by other followers. Prayers: Luthic's prayers begin as low moans building to screams before abbruptly stopping. It is said that those giving birth naturally prayer to the Cave Mother. Rites: Luthic's clerics bless new children and sometimes are called to conduct fertility rites for a childless female. Herald and Allies: A fiendish ogre weretriceratops serves as Luthic's herald. Succubus demons and night hags ally with Luthic. Favored Weapon: Spiked gauntlet. (Why did I do info on Luthic over other gods? I don't know just what came to me when I started writing.)
bhu 07-01-08, 04:46 AM	Fiendish half-ogre were triceratops?
dulsi 07-01-08, 11:17 AM	It occurred to me when I went to sleep the weretriceratops won't work. Triceratops are herbivores are lycanthropes must be predator, scavenger, or omnivore. So what do you think weretyrannosaurus or wereelasmosaurus? I'm thinking weretrannosaurus (I was trying to avoid it but if I can't use triceratops I think it is the best choice). Any particular reason you wanted to change it to half-ogre. I'm generally trying to stick to srd material because I don't have a lot of other material.
bhu 07-02-08, 04:09 AM	Sorry I originally thought it said half ogre. No I was wondering why that for her herald??? The orcs (or their dieties) seem fairly racist I was wondering why they'd use a non orc as a herald.
Midnight_v 07-07-08, 02:14 PM	The first thing I wanted to contribute will have to wait a while, but I've always really enjoyed k's take in the races of war on orcs. Orcs are the product of a generations-long war against the other races. Unfortunately, they haven’t realized that they’ve lost this war. Why the war starts is simple: orcs are, as a race, stupid, ugly, and weak willed, but very strong. Being stupid, ugly and weak willed means that other races tend to always get the upper hand on them and tend to always get the better end of any deal, and other races also tend to not want Orcs around. Orc goods are always a little worse than goods produced by other races, and orcs are generally a little rowdier and less pleasant to be around. At some point the orcs realize that they are much better in battle than other races, and they decide to fight for a little respect and fair treatment. Then the war is on. The only problem is that orcs win battles, but lose wars. Other races have natural advantages or just greater intelligence, so any war tends to go badly for the orcs in the long run. Powerful melee combat ability doesn’t mean much when elves attack from the bushes with longbows and then run way and all the races have superior battle plans and ability to lead their troops. Once the war has been decisively won, the orcs are driven out of their lands and pushed into some badland, hinterland, or some other undesirable terrain far away from trade routes and civilization and usually full of monsters. The other races then go back to their lives, but here’s the trick: the orcs don’t. As far as the orcs are concerned, the war is still on because the orcs are still stuck in the worst land in their area, scraping by in the wilderness with minimal natural resources and almost no access to the products of civilization like arable farmlands, centuries-old cities, and trade goods like the products of skilled craftsmen from other lands (which can include magic items). All of orc culture comes back to this issue. Orcs are constantly warring on other races not out of innate need for violence or evil inclinations, but because they are fighting for their survival as a race in lands considered undesirable by every other major race. Orc raids are not only for food and booty, but for all the things that orc culture cannot produce like tools and weapons. Without these things they cannot survive in the wilderness, and they cannot produce them in the wilderness living as nomads who hunt and gather for survival. Orc hordes are not an indication of warlike racial tendencies, but of population issues. Once the orcish population in the badlands grows too large to be supportable, they must conquer new lands or else face death by famine and disease. Hordes are formed of “excess” young males that are sent off to carve out new lands or die trying…. both results ease the burden on the few resources in the badlands. The fact that orcs are constantly in a war footing means that they easily offend other races with their tactics. Rather than fight elven guerilla fighters who sap their resources and manpower, they’ll burn the forest down, and rather than fight dwarves in their millennia-old and heavily entrenched deepnesses filled with traps, the orcs will collapse the tunnels and dig the booty out of the rubble. The fact that most races fight defensively means that orcs only gain tactical advantage by being extremely offensively-minded. The fact that orcs do not have supplies coming from the badlands means that while they have no supply trains to cut, they must conduct blitzkrieg-style war or face starvation, and they cannot afford to hold troops in reserve. They often just don’t have the resources needed to conduct honorable or civilized war, and their attacks seldom have finesse or timing on their side, meaning that they only win battles through overwhelming force. Night raids are their specialty, as they have darkvision and are sensitive to light. On orcs and half-orcs "Waaarrrggghhhh!" Orcs get the short end of the stick. They can eat pretty much anything and they have to because their race has lost every major war since… well forever. Orcs are extremely specialized, and rarely see play as anything except a Barbarian. However, some players will want to diversify the concept into say… a Rogue, Assassin, or Fighter build. That works OK, but remember that an Orc always brings "hitting things really hard" to the party. The Orcs other limitations are pretty severe, so taking a class combination that doesn't accentuate the narrow scope of Orc advantages is probably a mistake in the long run. "I don't fit in anywhere, but you may be surprised to know that this dagger fits all kinds of places." Ah, the Half-Orc. Has any race ever gotten quite as dusty a drumstick as they? The reason that we have half-orcs at all is because they were around in Tolkien. But they didn't really do much in those books, they were just easily deluded villains who were borderline racist stereotypes and made us want to forget them altogether. But time moves on, and where once the Half-Orcs were debased and pathetic pawns of The Dark One, now we have them as a legitimate playable race. And yet, their game mechanics have never really been compatible with that. Here's what they're supposed to be: Half-Orcs have the smarts of a human and the strength of an Orc. If people didn't hate them so much, they'd rule everything. But people do hate them so much. And here's why: Human women are, compared to Orcs, weak; Orcish women are, compared to Humans, gullible. Making Half-Orcs is easy, and since the modern Orc looks like an Orc from World of Warcraft more than a pig-man, perfectly understandable. With all the wars that Orcs and Humans have, even periods of relative peace are rarely considered periods of friendship. So any time a Half-Orc happens, both races tend to consider it an abomination. It doesn't matter that a Half-Orc is a better leader than any of the other Orcs. It doesn't matter that the Half-Orc is tougher than any of the other Humans – he's hated for his talents. And that makes him perversely really good at finding out things he wants to know from people. He's dealt with prejudice all his life, and knows pretty much everything you'd want to know about working around it. I think these are pretty relevant espsecially from a sociological perspective. Though Julescarv has a pretty detailed take on the matter all of which sounds pretty much perfect IMHO. I'm going to do a write up on the Clerics of ilneval as my contribution. Available soon. edit: Scent reaplacing Child of scorn is brilliant. I don't think powerful build is overpowered at that level and is a worthwhilw additon because it provides a marked distiction between Rangers as human/elf rangers as a savage member of the horde. I suggest Poweful build Brutal Throw (from the june 2007 preview) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070607a You have learned how to hurl weapons to deadly effect. Benefit: You can add your Strength modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to attack rolls with thrown weapons. Normal: A character attacking with a ranged weapon adds his Dexterity modifier to the attack roll. Special: A fighter can select Brutal Throw as one of his fighter bonus feats. Finally at later levels a status effet like being hit with the attack the brutal throw the opponent must maks a save = to X (cause I dont' know what) or bad stuff. Trip, nausea, daze, sickend stunned whatever. *shrug* Just me. (I see the ranger throwing his great axe and knocking an elf pusuer back onto his butt.)
JulesCARV 07-07-08, 07:53 PM	Unfortunately, they haven’t realized that they’ve lost this war. Why the war starts is simple: orcs are, as a race, stupid, ugly, and weak willed, but very strong. Being stupid, ugly and weak willed means that other races tend to always get the upper hand on them and tend to always get the better end of any deal, and other races also tend to not want Orcs around. ... The only problem is that orcs win battles, but lose wars. Other races have natural advantages or just greater intelligence, so any war tends to go badly for the orcs in the long run. Powerful melee combat ability doesn’t mean much when elves attack from the bushes with longbows and then run way and all the races have superior battle plans and ability to lead their troops. Hmm.... this makes orcs seem like not much of a threat. It's clear that these aren't the orcs who conquered Azeroth in the Warcraft II timeline or anything like them. Orcs go from being a menace to the very existence of humans, elves, and the like to being a chronic annoyance. While that's certainly a valid take, I personally would like to see orcs a bit scarier, so here's my take on the dilemma of orcs being too dumb to fight well in the long run. Personally, I'd say that orcs are sometimes underestimated. Their tactical and strategic abilities are better than what might be expected from their intelligence, because, while smart orcs are rarer than smart dwarves or smart humans, orcs channel a wildly disproportionate share of their intellectual endowment into matters of tactics, strategy, military engineering, and warfare. Take a tribe of humans, and look at the "smart fraction" of them -- say, those with 14+ int. Assuming 3d6 ability distribution, that's 16.2% of the population. Take a tribe of orcs, and look at the "smart fraction" of them -- say, those with 14+ int, once again. The smart percentage drops to 4.6%. However, that's not the whole story. The humans will have many different types in their smart fraction -- some military officers, weaponsmiths and armorsmiths, and martial supernaturalists, yes, but also some novelists, some philosophers, some mathematicians, some artists, some non-martial int-based supernaturalists (like archivists focused on item creation and healing) some inventors of practical non-military devices like improved textile-manufacturing devices, some merchants and entrepreneurs, etc. The orcs, on the other hand, while they might have a few people in the other categories (inventors, philosophers, authors, artists, etc), are going to far more disproportionately concentrate their brainpower in what they know and respect -- war. Smart orcs are far more likely to become commanders, weaponsmiths, or martially-oriented supernaturalists (battle-oriented wizards, etc). As a result, orcs' command over strategy and tactics is often underestimated by their foes. While there couldn't be an orc strategic genius with a natural 18 in intelligence, an unexpected number of 14s, 15s, and 16s are found among their higher ranks. While this may not be enough to allow them to win on their wits alone, it's enough that fighting an intelligent enemy is far from hopeless. On the other hand, when it comes to their literary and philosophical canon, their business practices, their indigenous mathematical developments etc, they're even more backwards than a measly -2 to their int and wis would suggest, because their smart types are becoming commanders, blast-happy kineticists, weaponsmiths, etc, and no one bothers trying to write the Great Orcish Novel.:)
Midnight_v 07-08-08, 04:40 PM	Seriously, JulesCarv you've just been added to my buddy list seeing as all you ideas are made of win. ;) Info on grey orcs preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a) Reading this preiveiw and looking at the srd racial stats I think that the problem is Orcs dont' win because they don't have magic. The +2 to all orc intelligence stats is daunting. The Orc Sorcerer variant is truly needed and this makes a good reason why the orcs almost never win. They aren't as powerful magically as the other races which is like Making a primitive race fight a race with bombs and guns in away. I'm not sure how to fix that. Every other orc variant is level adjusted and thus breaks the rule: "Thou shalt not give up caster level." I think I have an idea... maybe more like scar magic or something thats con based. Ala the Runescared barbarian, that way the dcs can be Con based. basically the orcs need to get a supernatural feat set or ability set if not the bulk of magical talent will come from half orcs and be nominally clerical in nature but the Substitution levels work fine. Variant sorcerer might need to be stretched to variant dread necro ... aka witch doctor. As dread necromancer save as follows. LvL 1: The sorcerer gains a +2 bonus to charisma at level 1 for the purpose of dc's and bonus spells. (there sub levels that dont' ask anything the zhentarim fighter for instance) Lvl 4: Eclectic learning as phb 2 warmage sub level replaces advance learning and all advance learning from then on. lvl 9: invigorate : 1 per day you can touch a fallen creture and extend it's existance through unlife at half its hit points this raising follows all the other restrictions as the raise dead spell and lasts one round per caster level. or some such drivel you get the idea... must sleep. . .
dulsi 08-09-08, 10:13 AM	I've been thinking some more on the orc ranger substitution levels. For combat style how about focusing on overrun. He gets violent overrun at 2nd level. It allows him to make an attack during an overrun regardless of whether the opponent avoids or not. At 6th he gets the improved overrun feat. At 11th opponents no longer get an attack of opportunity during an overrun (defensive overrun for a name?).
bhu 08-11-08, 04:22 AM	It would be different. But there would have to be a different combat style to pick from besides two weapon or ranged.
dulsi 11-01-08, 05:41 PM	I decided to try to fill in some more info for orcs. Unfortunately it just doesn't feel very good to me. Maybe others will have better suggestions. Orcs and Other Races Strength earns the respect of orcs. They rarely maintain alliances. Once weakness is shown in an ally, orcs will exploit it to crush the former ally. Bugbears: Bugbears have a similar attitude of might is right. They care little for positions of power nor do they respect authority. More than one orc warlord has been surprised by the refusal of bugbears to follow his command. Orcs have learned not to rely upon the creatures but will still use them when they can. Dwarves: Orcs and dwarves have been in conflict since their earliest encounters. While the orcs dislike the dwarves, they admire their strength. Neither offer nor expect surrender. Both have a stubbornness that prevent them from admitting to past mistakes. Rarely do the two races cooperate. Elves: Conflicts with the elves extend back as far if not further than those with the dwarves. The orcs hold no respect for the elves. While the dwarves matched steel with the orcs, the elves relied on magical secrets hidden from the other races. Gnomes: The smaller races are not well treated by orcs. Viewed as weak, gnomes nack with illusions annoy orcs. Their small structures prevent orcs from easily attacking gnome communities. Goblins: The goblins learned long ago to avoid being crushed by the orcs. Typically they serve the orcs rather than directly fight them. To the orcs, they are disposable. Cunning goblins are usually working behind the scenes to undermine the orcs. Half-Elves: Their elven blood biases orcs against the half-elves. If they know of the mixed ancestry, orcs tend to taunt the half-breeds.
bhu 11-04-08, 07:14 AM	I've always thought of them as fundamentalist religious fanatics who killed the other races because Gruumsh cmmanded them too.
Divisionbyzer0 11-11-08, 12:28 AM	In need of suggestions / tweakage-- I feel as a deity He is a bit too generalized... I was thinking of adding something along the lines that life originates with and depends on water as well to the dogma... thoughts? Vargash -- Orc Nature God flavored towards a non-evil conception of Water Orcs *VARGASH* *Symbol*: Wave crest behind sharks head, or shark's tooth with blood droplet dripping into water. *Alignment*: Chaotic Neutral. *Domains*: Chaos, Travel, Water, War, Strength, Retribution. *Portfolio*: Conflict, Endurance, Life, Nature, Primal Knowledge, Orcs, Water *Favored Weapon*: The Saw Tooth Sabre is favored for it's balance of swiftness and damage capacity: Sawtooth Sabre [Exotic] Light 1d6/1d8 19-20 x2 S/P Note: worshippers like crafting their own from natural materials, so cost is not given. Consider "craft primitive weapons" or other appropriate craft skill decided with your DM. The tooth of the blade is preferred to be sharks teeth. In actuality this weapon is borrowed from pathfinder, and I don't know the cost -- work it out with your DM. If this weapon is not available add the serrated component (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=17286531&postcount=15) to a blade of your choice -- for 1d4 rounds after a critical hit +1 damage. Or consider the Shark Tooth Staff from Savage Species. *Home Plane*: Elemental plane of Water; though often frequents The Beastlands for sport, and on Occasion Limbo or other outer planes when hunting creatures who have meddled in his lands. *Common Worshippers*: Water Orcs, Amphibious and Aquatic Monstrous Races, Orc cultists disillusioned with the Dogma of Gruumsh, Hunters and Survivalists, Seafarers & Pirates Vargassh, the chief deity of aquatic orcs & water orcs, waterways and aquatic habitats of all sorts, often assumes the form of large thickly scaled muscular aquatic Orc clad in motley armor composed of scaled hides, bones, and tortoise shells. His gait is somewhat stooped and apelike which adds to his primeval appearance; his unblinking gaze is that of a predator ready to pounce at a moments notice. His hair is wild and decorated with an odd assortment of bones, seaweeds, and shells. Vargash wields a fierce bone harpoon which constantly trickles blood whose edge is composed entirely of sharks teeth. He may assume different forms when appearing to different followers depending on the habitat of his followers: often he takes the form of a dire form of some aquatic species, his favorite being some form of a shark or giant tortoise. *Dogma*: Like the chief deity of the mountain Orcs, Varassh teaches his followers strength and unquenchable desire for survival in lesser developed habitats. However being a god with a deep ties to the natural world he sees a place for all the races; unlike Gruumsh he does not harbor specific hatreds towards the other races, nor does he actively endorse the total acquisition of all existing territories, though he does admonish his followers to make use of savage retributive strikes when their habitats are encroached on. To the deity of the water Orcs nature is violent, chaotic, and unpredictable - attempting to tame it too acquisitively brings with it the fruit of folly. Vargash is the predatory master of the hunt, who prides cunning, strength, swiftness, and the firm resolve to survive in spite of all harsh conditions. Water orcs, according to Vargash, will cull the weak from their numbers but not as a principle in itself as Gruumsh teaches, but only when necessary, as the weak themselves are part of the natural realm. Vargash will use the weak as an example of how to better survive; at times he may be their inspiration, at other times their fear. Water Orcs do not keep slaves as the other Orcs as Vargash preaches self-sufficiency, and sees reliance on the defeated or the weak to do one's work as itself being a weakness. Vargash, does actively inspire his followers to slay those who feign strength or those who use another's strength and claim it as their own. Vargash is as aggressive the defender of the waters and as such, he is a war god to the aquatic Orc species. While Vargash doesn't much concern himself with the presence of the natural races on the material plane, he harbors a strong dislike for the meddlings of the creatures he sees as unnatural, such as aberrations, undead, outsiders, and constructs (often those ugly ones from mechanus). He and his followers will often actively hunt such creatures down and eliminate them. Outside of the aquatic Orc species, Vargash has followers among other aquatic, amphibious, and monstrous races, barbarians, druids, rangers, scouts, huntsmen, fishermen, survivalists, sailors, pirates, and all those seeking to improve their own strengths through self-determination.
bhu 11-11-08, 01:02 AM	Looks good to me. Has he been statted out yet?
JulesCARV 11-11-08, 01:22 AM	I've always thought of them as fundamentalist religious fanatics who killed the other races because Gruumsh cmmanded them too. Possibly, although I could imagine a lot of orcs being generally devoid of any spiritual sense, and typically paying mere lip service to their faith (much to the consternation of more pious orcs). I.e., "let's go sack this human town, take all of their gold and valuable weapons or armor, slaughter all of their men, and enslave all of their nubile women! Err.... all in Gruumsh's name, of course! And we'll desecrate their infidel temples too, particularly if they have altars with lots of gold inlays and such. Not that that's why we'd be defiling them, of course! It'd all be for the greater glory of Gruumsh!" In need of suggestions / tweakage-- I feel as a deity He is a bit too generalized... I was thinking of adding something along the lines that life originates with and depends on water as well to the dogma... thoughts? Looks fine overall, but what's his favored weapon? Personally, if you want my suggestion, I'd go with ranseur -- a sea-suitable piercing weapon, like the trident, but also a heavy two-hander, suitable for the brutal combat style of orcs. Your call, though -- just make sure he has one, considering that he has the war domain and all.
Divisionbyzer0 11-11-08, 02:11 AM	Not statted yet. Gotta go through the complete divine again to see how all that works. I was thinking harpoon for favored weapon, since that's what I gave him in the "description" section, but giving an EWP out as a bonus prof ain't the best of ideas. I'm thinking of forming his "order" as well along the lines of the complete champion with the whole "affiliation rank" stuff as well. Possibly, although I could imagine a lot of orcs being generally devoid of any spiritual sense, and typically paying mere lip service to their faith (much to the consternation of more pious orcs). I.e., "let's go sack this human town, take all of their gold and valuable weapons or armor, slaughter all of their men, and enslave all of their nubile women! Err.... all in Gruumsh's name, of course! And we'll desecrate their infidel temples too, particularly if they have altars with lots of gold inlays and such. Not that that's why we'd be defiling them, of course! It'd all be for the greater glory of Gruumsh!" There's Orc porn fanfic out there where they do slaughter people and steal the nubile women but I think they are under the service of a human wizard instead of zGruumsh. It inspired my user name on a free porn site -- Hung Like An Orc :D
bhu 11-17-08, 05:15 AM	a saw tooth sword would be exotic but it would fit.
Divisionbyzer0 11-17-08, 06:33 AM	a saw tooth sword would be exotic but it would fit. Indeed. Is there such a weapon? Where can I find. The initial idea was a scimitar with teeth all along the slashing edge. This is actually for a campaign in which I am a player. None of the core deities appealed to me, so the DM let me design my own. I like the idea of the Saw Tooth Sword. I picked the War domain before I created the deity and went with scimitar as my focus weapon.
bhu 11-18-08, 05:46 AM	I think we'd have to make it, but it might be done somewhere already. It's basically a warclub imbedded with sharks teeth.
JulesCARV 11-18-08, 06:53 AM	There's Orc porn fanfic out there where they do slaughter people and steal the nubile women but I think they are under the service of a human wizard instead of zGruumsh. It inspired my user name on a free porn site -- Hung Like An Orc :D That probably falls under the category of TMI, although my general point was that the orcs in my quotation aren't really doing what they do in service of Gruumsh, but just doing what they want to do anyway for more temporal reasons of greed, lust, bloodthirstiness, glory-seeking etc, and are just half-heartedly claiming they're doing it in Gruumsh's name. (Not that Gruumsh would actually object to what they're doing per se.)
Divisionbyzer0 11-19-08, 01:35 AM	I think we'd have to make it, but it might be done somewhere already. It's basically a warclub imbedded with sharks teeth. I think theres something like that in savage species. Yeah: Savage Species, p45: Sharktooth Staff TwoHanded 20 GP 2d6 x3 Slashing special: can initiate a grapple against a S or M creature upon dealing damage, each subsequent round of the grapple they take the weapon damage Not what I wanted. I was thinking higher threat range, and one handed for use with TWF.
Divisionbyzer0 11-20-08, 06:34 AM	I am told there is a "saw tooth sabre" in pathfinder which is an exotic weapon has the stats of the long sword but is counted as a light weapon. I'm kinda diggin it :D EDIT: Updated Vargash with Portfolio, Common Worshipers, and Favored Weapon
Divisionbyzer0 11-26-08, 05:39 AM	Has anyone ever thought to retool the Orc race and subraces? I still think that the monstrous races get the shaft in D&D and have been getting the shaft for 30 years when compared to their non-monstrous frien... err enemies. For instance I don't think Orcs should take a hit to all their mental stats. Otherwise nicely flavored class and race combinations are often going to get ignored because of the poor mental stats. If they are good at surviving and they like ambush as the fluff texts say, so I'm assuming their senses aren't atrocious, then personally I don't think that they should take a hit to wisdom. Orcs prefer action over thought so I think it is fair that they suffer a hit to Int. They are less than "civilized" and on the violent and crass side so I think the penalty to Cha is fair. The fellow from the forums who I believe has abandoned his work who did the "Ultimate" races and classes retooling of them seemed nice. He allowed the player to choose the two of the three mental stat hits that he or she wanted so that the Orc could be more nicely used in the non-traditional classes if so desired. Personally I like the Water Orc the best. They have no LA, their bonuses completely zero out their negatives and a racial swim speed can actually be really nice. You can be a moderately competant swimmer with your high str and +8 bonus to avoid hazards without ever sinking a rank into the skill. Just look at the halfling or dwarf in comparison to the Core Orcs. Ok they don't get +4 to one ability which is very nice for a cutter lookin to kill stuff, but the abilities the berks get are phenomenal compared to... what... lightblindness, and proficiency with an axe that most Orcs are going to get from their fighter / ranger / barbarian / whatever martially type level anyhow?? And whatever happened to Orcs being reasonable miners and appraisers of underground constructions? It just don't seem right to me.
bhu 11-26-08, 06:11 AM	I think several of the raced need a lil re fluffing, but it shouldnt be too bad. Something to make them more like races less like mooks.
Raptorial 11-26-08, 07:23 AM	I concur. The problem with orcs is that they seem to never be expanded upon beyond Tolkien's original vision of "this is the bad guy, you must fight it". I think orcs can be done really well, and there are examples out there of such, but as long as we follow the d20 standard "lust and loot" mold. I've done some more out there orc cultures in the GiTP version of this thread, but I haven't done enough for the main orcs. I will try to work something out.
Divisionbyzer0 11-26-08, 09:03 AM	Half orcs as well. All half-orc races should get "divided ancestry: is counted as both human and orc for the use of items, and determination of effects; can select feats available to only human and orc-blooded." I was looking through the 2e Player's Options books. Some of the half-orc abilities there were interesting but mostly played off the notion of subabilities. Amusingly, half-orcs were strictly better than full-orcs under the players options rules, getting both boosts to con and str. The pictures on page 35 and 40 of Skills And Powers is what got me thinkin' orcs were awesome in the first place. Tell me this dude don't look badass? http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/divisionbyzer0/DnD/OrcChampion.jpg
Divisionbyzer0 12-01-08, 10:17 PM	Cool I just discovered some new orc subspecies. Scros which are more hobgoblin like orderly Orcs from spelljammer, detailed as a 3.5 race in Dragon 339, and Frostblood orcs which are dragonblooded from races of the dragon. Scros are kinda neat -- no light sensitivity, bonus to hit elves, and all pluses to physical stats, no hit to mentals but +2 LA.
Divisionbyzer0 12-03-08, 05:54 PM	Hey fellas, I got the notion that it would be cool to put together an Orc Compendium for my own use and personal edification and for friends and anyone else who might want it. For now I'm sticking to official cannon stuff (anything published by WoTC, 3.0 or 3.5), and I might throw some 3rd party d20 and homebrew stuff in it later. So, I'm looking for 1.) All the Orc-Blooded creatures: right now I know of The Monster Manual orc, PHB 1/2 Orc, all the UA varieties, Orog, Tannaruk, Grey Orc, Frostblooded Orc, Scro, and Mountain Orc 2.) Any Orc Racial Weapons: All I know of is the Double-Axe, and the Shotput 3.) Special Orc Magical Items or items which grant orcs more benefits than the usual user (amulet of wordtwisting) or items which have Orc back history (Raiment of the Stormwalker): right now I know of amulet of wordtwisting, shield of the severed hand, including magical versions of orc weapons (eg: Axe of Storms) 4.) Mundane non-magical Items invented by or useful for Orcs: e.g.: shaders from Races of Eberron 5.) Orc feats: as of now I got Headlong Rush, Light Adaptation, Blood of The Warlord, Might Makes Right, Initiate of Gruumsh, and the regional feats from Forgotten Realms core book. 6.) Orc Prcs (all I know of is the Battle Howler from Dragon Magazine, The Eye of Gruumsh, The Paragon, and The Orc Warlord, and I think there are some from Races of Destiny... I know that Dragon did some more) 7.) Orcs presented as statted ready to use as monsters: e.g.: the one in the MM, the snow shaman in Frostburn, and the 4 presented in MM IV 8.) Example NPC orcs: e.g. the Pious Templar example character is a 1/2 Orc templar of Gruumsh 9.) Material on the orc deities, and their activities on their home plane (Acheron is it?): as of now I have the stuff from Faiths and Pantheons of Faerun, and the stats of Gruumsh from Deities And Demigods. 10.) Text on Orc culture, ecology, diet, art and architecture, psychology, origins, roleplaying orcs, stuff from other campaigns, etc. 11.) Any images of Orcs from the books 12.) Orc preferred pets and common allies (do they have any allies other than subjugated slaves :D) Any assistance here is much appreciated! If anyone wants to throw AD&D stuff at me, that would be cool too. I know there are some good images from the old books, and probably lots of other interesting material.
bhu 12-04-08, 05:31 AM	Hey fellas, I got the notion that it would be cool to put together an Orc Compendium for my own use and personal edification and for friends and anyone else who might want it. For now I'm sticking to official cannon stuff (anything published by WoTC, 3.0 or 3.5), and I might throw some 3rd party d20 and homebrew stuff in it later. So, I'm looking for 1.) All the Orc-Blooded creatures: right now I know of The Monster Manual orc, PHB 1/2 Orc, all the UA varieties, Orog, Tannaruk, Grey Orc, Frostblooded Orc, Scro, and Mountain Orc 2.) Any Orc Racial Weapons: All I know of is the Double-Axe, and the Shotput 3.) Special Orc Magical Items or items which grant orcs more benefits than the usual user (amulet of wordtwisting) or items which have Orc back history (Raiment of the Stormwalker): right now I know of amulet of wordtwisting, shield of the severed hand, including magical versions of orc weapons (eg: Axe of Storms) 4.) Mundane non-magical Items invented by or useful for Orcs: e.g.: shaders from Races of Eberron 5.) Orc feats: as of now I got Headlong Rush, Light Adaptation, Blood of The Warlord, Might Makes Right, Initiate of Gruumsh, and the regional feats from Forgotten Realms core book. 6.) Orc Prcs (all I know of is the Battle Howler from Dragon Magazine, The Eye of Gruumsh, The Paragon, and The Orc Warlord, and I think there are some from Races of Destiny... I know that Dragon did some more) 7.) Orcs presented as statted ready to use as monsters: e.g.: the one in the MM, the snow shaman in Frostburn, and the 4 presented in MM IV 8.) Example NPC orcs: e.g. the Pious Templar example character is a 1/2 Orc templar of Gruumsh 9.) Material on the orc deities, and their activities on their home plane (Acheron is it?): as of now I have the stuff from Faiths and Pantheons of Faerun, and the stats of Gruumsh from Deities And Demigods. 10.) Text on Orc culture, ecology, diet, art and architecture, psychology, origins, roleplaying orcs, stuff from other campaigns, etc. 11.) Any images of Orcs from the books 12.) Orc preferred pets and common allies (do they have any allies other than subjugated slaves :D) Any assistance here is much appreciated! If anyone wants to throw AD&D stuff at me, that would be cool too. I know there are some good images from the old books, and probably lots of other interesting material. We've done lots of Orc PrC's on the Races of the Horde thread in the Classes board on here and at Gitp. I think you've got all the various orc subraces there I think thats all the racial weapons unsure on the other stuff
Divisionbyzer0 12-04-08, 10:11 AM	Yeah, I will going through the material here. Actually it seems that I carelessly omitted the Scablands Half-Orcs from Sandstorm.