Racial Hovering? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial Hovering? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wylantern
10-13-07, 01:53 AM Would it be unbalancing to give a race the ability to perform all actions as normal just 6 inches in the air, so that they don't have to touch the ground?

What if they remained stunned if they ever touched the ground like from a trip attack or bull rush attempt?

If everything else is human normal plus this ability, what would their LA be?

All thoughts welcome.
bahamut920
10-13-07, 02:19 AM Depends. If they're doing what normal people do, just 6 inches off the ground, then not really. In this case, I'd say the most you can expect from this ability is immunity to caltrops, a bonus on Balance checks in certain situations (like an earthquake), and a slight lessening of the penalties for difficult terrain. In return, they're suffering from a major liability, making anything that knocks them down almost automatically lethal (they can't recover from their stunned condition, because being stunned robs them of the ability to get up from their prone position). It seems like, in order to recover, an ally has to lift them up off the ground so they can recover their "air-balance." In fact, the drawback in this case outweighs the benefit, so I'd say the LA doesn't change. In fact, you could probably tone down the drawback a little (like making the stun last a set duration - a few rounds to maybe a minute at most - or adding a Fort save each round to negate) and still be fine. I mean, I can imagine an earthquake knocking down an entire city of these guys, and then they just starve to death, because none of them can get up.

However, if this "float" ability works more like it does in Final Fantasy Tactics, allowing the creature to "walk" over liquids like water or lava, then you've got at least an LA +1 there despite the drawback - maybe +2 since it's on top of the human bonuses.
Wylantern
10-13-07, 12:20 PM Alright, we go with non-human.

No bonus feat or skill points, etc.

They get +4 Balance, +4 Move Silently.

They can ignore ground based terrain penalties.

Touching the ground makes them fatigued instead of stunned and lasts as long as they remain on the ground (DC 15 Fort to get aloft again).

I imagine its something like they are in a naturally energetic state and when they touch the earth they complete the circuit and find it hard to get aloft again.

Maybe with additional HD or a feat tree they can gain Gliding (as the Raptoran) and then Flight (as the Raptorans).

What do you think?
1 ton ghost
10-13-07, 01:20 PM they'd need a listed Fly speed as part of movement to qualify for the Hover feat. i think this where you're going, right?
otherwise, you're getting into Levitate's sphere of influence, and again, to maintain that, that's another Move Action.

problem is to maintain Hover and the like, it's a Move Action, so you're giving up a Full Attack, but w/ a good reach weapon and some altitude, it's often worth it.
ArochanoX
10-13-07, 03:31 PM Scorn Earth (Su): At 1st level, an elocater’s feet lift from the ground. From now on, she can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking she glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While she remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, she can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at her normal speed (she can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round.
While she remains within 1 foot of a surface, she can make melee and ranged attacks normally, but if she moves any higher, she incurs the penalties on melee and ranged attack rolls as if she were the subject of the psionic levitate power.

Elocater's ability from Xph looks like the thing you're describing. Also the levitate power the scorn earth ability is referencing to.

Levitate, Psionic
Psychoportation
Level: Nomad 2, psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 2
Display: Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: You or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lb./level)
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
Power Points: 3
As the levitate spell, except as noted here.
Special: When a psion, wilder, or a psychic warrior manifests this power, the target is the manifester (not a willing creature or an object).

Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).
A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a –1 penalty on attack rolls, the second –2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of –5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at –1.

So this totals maybe a +1 LA or a very powerful racial ability anyways. It allows vertical free movement at the rate 20ft/round (double-move), ignores all liquids (like lava and acid pools) and almost all difficult terrain. Very useful ability that has its uses especially if the dm designs terrain and obstacle filled dungeons and other fighting environment.
Rustmonster
10-13-07, 04:12 PM I tried making an ability like this a while back, for a race I was creating that was basiclly intellegent, medium flying squids (similar to darkmantles)

What I did was that they had no real bonus from it other than caltrop immunity. They hovered about half a foot off the ground, and they would always remain this height off the ground. If they ever "fell" for five feet or more, they would hit the ground (with their tenticles if it wasn't a big fall) then start to float again in the next round. This way, pits still hurt them, and they could take falling damage. Move silently increase may have been a good idea, too, or a jump bonus. They gained no bonus on balance checks or moving over difficult terrain, because their hovering depended on the ground under them, so if it was difficult to walk on, it was difficult to hover over.

Hope that helped a little.
Wylantern
10-14-07, 10:15 AM Elocater's ability from Xph looks like the thing you're describing. Also the levitate power the scorn earth ability is referencing to.

So this totals maybe a +1 LA or a very powerful racial ability anyways. It allows vertical free movement at the rate 20ft/round (double-move), ignores all liquids (like lava and acid pools) and almost all difficult terrain. Very useful ability that has its uses especially if the dm designs terrain and obstacle filled dungeons and other fighting environment.

Thank you that is very helpful!
EvilVegan
10-14-07, 10:26 AM My gnomes hover about 6" to a foot off the ground.

Treat them as one size smaller for wind based effects. Avoid caltrops and terrain problems.

I'd give them levitate and then fly, either with paragon class levels or feat chains.
Anguish2
10-14-07, 10:31 AM In Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, there's the most recent printing of the creatures known as Dabus. Page 192, for reference.

Dabus get telepathy 100ft, but do the whole rebus pictorgram speak, which is probably a big drawback for a player character. They are immune to spells that affect surfaces or flight, which is potentially huge as written. For instance, the spell earthbind which removes any ability to fly... they're immune to. They appear to have 4 racial hit dice and are extraplanar humanoids. They get change self as a spell-like ability at will, which is pretty big too. Finally, that this is the capstone, they have an (Ex) which is called Floating Form. The text of floating form basically says they don't fly or walk, but do something unique that's somewhere between the two.

Speed 30ft (6 squares); floating form

That's how it's written.

Now. Dabus are CR2. If you were to take away the 4 racial hit dice and the telepathy/rebus-pictograms and the spell-like ability, I expect you'd probably hit CR1 easily. I doubt the floating form alone is worth an LA. Certainly not more than LA+1, but I'd probably let it slide at +0.

Remember that this creature as written is immune to the fly spell, for instance. As a DM, I'd probably rule that spells that change form to turn it into a bird would also not work. The only ways I'd let this thing fly would probably be 1} a druid with wildshape/shapeshift, 2} some kind of feats that grant natural wings. That's fairly huge.
ArochanoX
10-14-07, 11:18 AM Some more info of Elocator's scorn earth ability:

FAQ:
Does the scorn earth class feature of the elocator
prestige class (Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 142)
allow her to avoid taking damage from a fall?
Actually, the character wouldn’t fall at all. An elocator is
effectively in a constant state of levitation (as the psionic
levitate power). An elocator could walk out over an open pit
without falling (though her speed would be reduced to 10 feet
per round). Even a trap door opening beneath her feet wouldn’t
drop her—she’d just hang in space, levitating as if she’d
intentionally stepped out over the pit.
The class feature suggests strongly that its effect is created
voluntarily: “she can float a foot above the ground” (EPH 143,
italics added). Thus, if for some reason she didn’t have this
effect active, she’d be as vulnerable to falling as anyone else.
As a supernatural ability, it requires a standard action to
activate scorn earth, so she probably wouldn’t have time to
save herself from a (short) fall.

All about Trip Attacks part 2 from wotc website
Tripping Flyers: A creature flying with wings can be tripped. If the attempt succeeds, the creature stalls and falls 150 feet. See Rules of the Game: All About Movement for details (and a few unofficial additional rules about tripping flying creatures).

Creatures that fly without wings (and any creature with perfect maneuverability) can't be tripped while flying. If the creature is still in the air after stalling, it must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover and resume flying. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it lands prone and takes falling damage.

I'd say a "scorn earth"ing creature is immune to tripping. And for instance could live in Sharn without any risk at all. Bullrushing, grappling and overrunning would work normally (atleast for my rules-sense). We must also note that the "scorn earth"ing creature is flying at the same time, so wind would effect him as if he were flying. Though he could end the scorn earth ability voluntarily and drop on the ground.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wylantern 10-13-07, 01:53 AM	Would it be unbalancing to give a race the ability to perform all actions as normal just 6 inches in the air, so that they don't have to touch the ground? What if they remained stunned if they ever touched the ground like from a trip attack or bull rush attempt? If everything else is human normal plus this ability, what would their LA be? All thoughts welcome.
bahamut920 10-13-07, 02:19 AM	Depends. If they're doing what normal people do, just 6 inches off the ground, then not really. In this case, I'd say the most you can expect from this ability is immunity to caltrops, a bonus on Balance checks in certain situations (like an earthquake), and a slight lessening of the penalties for difficult terrain. In return, they're suffering from a major liability, making anything that knocks them down almost automatically lethal (they can't recover from their stunned condition, because being stunned robs them of the ability to get up from their prone position). It seems like, in order to recover, an ally has to lift them up off the ground so they can recover their "air-balance." In fact, the drawback in this case outweighs the benefit, so I'd say the LA doesn't change. In fact, you could probably tone down the drawback a little (like making the stun last a set duration - a few rounds to maybe a minute at most - or adding a Fort save each round to negate) and still be fine. I mean, I can imagine an earthquake knocking down an entire city of these guys, and then they just starve to death, because none of them can get up. However, if this "float" ability works more like it does in Final Fantasy Tactics, allowing the creature to "walk" over liquids like water or lava, then you've got at least an LA +1 there despite the drawback - maybe +2 since it's on top of the human bonuses.
Wylantern 10-13-07, 12:20 PM	Alright, we go with non-human. No bonus feat or skill points, etc. They get +4 Balance, +4 Move Silently. They can ignore ground based terrain penalties. Touching the ground makes them fatigued instead of stunned and lasts as long as they remain on the ground (DC 15 Fort to get aloft again). I imagine its something like they are in a naturally energetic state and when they touch the earth they complete the circuit and find it hard to get aloft again. Maybe with additional HD or a feat tree they can gain Gliding (as the Raptoran) and then Flight (as the Raptorans). What do you think?
1 ton ghost 10-13-07, 01:20 PM	they'd need a listed Fly speed as part of movement to qualify for the Hover feat. i think this where you're going, right? otherwise, you're getting into Levitate's sphere of influence, and again, to maintain that, that's another Move Action. problem is to maintain Hover and the like, it's a Move Action, so you're giving up a Full Attack, but w/ a good reach weapon and some altitude, it's often worth it.
ArochanoX 10-13-07, 03:31 PM	Scorn Earth (Su): At 1st level, an elocater’s feet lift from the ground. From now on, she can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking she glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While she remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, she can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at her normal speed (she can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round. While she remains within 1 foot of a surface, she can make melee and ranged attacks normally, but if she moves any higher, she incurs the penalties on melee and ranged attack rolls as if she were the subject of the psionic levitate power. Elocater's ability from Xph looks like the thing you're describing. Also the levitate power the scorn earth ability is referencing to. Levitate, Psionic Psychoportation Level: Nomad 2, psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 2 Display: Olfactory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: You or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lb./level) Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: Yes (harmless, object) Power Points: 3 As the levitate spell, except as noted here. Special: When a psion, wilder, or a psychic warrior manifests this power, the target is the manifester (not a willing creature or an object). Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed). A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a –1 penalty on attack rolls, the second –2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of –5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at –1. So this totals maybe a +1 LA or a very powerful racial ability anyways. It allows vertical free movement at the rate 20ft/round (double-move), ignores all liquids (like lava and acid pools) and almost all difficult terrain. Very useful ability that has its uses especially if the dm designs terrain and obstacle filled dungeons and other fighting environment.
Rustmonster 10-13-07, 04:12 PM	I tried making an ability like this a while back, for a race I was creating that was basiclly intellegent, medium flying squids (similar to darkmantles) What I did was that they had no real bonus from it other than caltrop immunity. They hovered about half a foot off the ground, and they would always remain this height off the ground. If they ever "fell" for five feet or more, they would hit the ground (with their tenticles if it wasn't a big fall) then start to float again in the next round. This way, pits still hurt them, and they could take falling damage. Move silently increase may have been a good idea, too, or a jump bonus. They gained no bonus on balance checks or moving over difficult terrain, because their hovering depended on the ground under them, so if it was difficult to walk on, it was difficult to hover over. Hope that helped a little.
Wylantern 10-14-07, 10:15 AM	Elocater's ability from Xph looks like the thing you're describing. Also the levitate power the scorn earth ability is referencing to. So this totals maybe a +1 LA or a very powerful racial ability anyways. It allows vertical free movement at the rate 20ft/round (double-move), ignores all liquids (like lava and acid pools) and almost all difficult terrain. Very useful ability that has its uses especially if the dm designs terrain and obstacle filled dungeons and other fighting environment. Thank you that is very helpful!
EvilVegan 10-14-07, 10:26 AM	My gnomes hover about 6" to a foot off the ground. Treat them as one size smaller for wind based effects. Avoid caltrops and terrain problems. I'd give them levitate and then fly, either with paragon class levels or feat chains.
Anguish2 10-14-07, 10:31 AM	In Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, there's the most recent printing of the creatures known as Dabus. Page 192, for reference. Dabus get telepathy 100ft, but do the whole rebus pictorgram speak, which is probably a big drawback for a player character. They are immune to spells that affect surfaces or flight, which is potentially huge as written. For instance, the spell earthbind which removes any ability to fly... they're immune to. They appear to have 4 racial hit dice and are extraplanar humanoids. They get change self as a spell-like ability at will, which is pretty big too. Finally, that this is the capstone, they have an (Ex) which is called Floating Form. The text of floating form basically says they don't fly or walk, but do something unique that's somewhere between the two. Speed 30ft (6 squares); floating form That's how it's written. Now. Dabus are CR2. If you were to take away the 4 racial hit dice and the telepathy/rebus-pictograms and the spell-like ability, I expect you'd probably hit CR1 easily. I doubt the floating form alone is worth an LA. Certainly not more than LA+1, but I'd probably let it slide at +0. Remember that this creature as written is immune to the fly spell, for instance. As a DM, I'd probably rule that spells that change form to turn it into a bird would also not work. The only ways I'd let this thing fly would probably be 1} a druid with wildshape/shapeshift, 2} some kind of feats that grant natural wings. That's fairly huge.
ArochanoX 10-14-07, 11:18 AM	Some more info of Elocator's scorn earth ability: FAQ: Does the scorn earth class feature of the elocator prestige class (Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 142) allow her to avoid taking damage from a fall? Actually, the character wouldn’t fall at all. An elocator is effectively in a constant state of levitation (as the psionic levitate power). An elocator could walk out over an open pit without falling (though her speed would be reduced to 10 feet per round). Even a trap door opening beneath her feet wouldn’t drop her—she’d just hang in space, levitating as if she’d intentionally stepped out over the pit. The class feature suggests strongly that its effect is created voluntarily: “she can float a foot above the ground” (EPH 143, italics added). Thus, if for some reason she didn’t have this effect active, she’d be as vulnerable to falling as anyone else. As a supernatural ability, it requires a standard action to activate scorn earth, so she probably wouldn’t have time to save herself from a (short) fall. All about Trip Attacks part 2 from wotc website Tripping Flyers: A creature flying with wings can be tripped. If the attempt succeeds, the creature stalls and falls 150 feet. See Rules of the Game: All About Movement for details (and a few unofficial additional rules about tripping flying creatures). Creatures that fly without wings (and any creature with perfect maneuverability) can't be tripped while flying. If the creature is still in the air after stalling, it must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover and resume flying. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it lands prone and takes falling damage. I'd say a "scorn earth"ing creature is immune to tripping. And for instance could live in Sharn without any risk at all. Bullrushing, grappling and overrunning would work normally (atleast for my rules-sense). We must also note that the "scorn earth"ing creature is flying at the same time, so wind would effect him as if he were flying. Though he could end the scorn earth ability voluntarily and drop on the ground.