Racial Weapon Proficiencies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Racial Weapon Proficiencies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kn1ves
05-29-07, 07:02 PM How do you people handle racial weapon proficiencies? Does every member of the race know how to use them no matter what? Do they have to be part of the community growing up to learn how to use them. If they grow up in another enviornment does it influence those proficiencies? Finally would you allow a character to switch out a proficiency for another one of equal power?
BugHunter
05-29-07, 08:18 PM How do you people handle racial weapon proficiencies? Does every member of the race know how to use them no matter what? Do they have to be part of the community growing up to learn how to use them. If they grow up in another enviornment does it influence those proficiencies? Finally would you allow a character to switch out a proficiency for another one of equal power?

For the full bloods (orcs, dwarves, elves, ...) I would give them the racial weapons no matter what class they take. For the half-races it would depend on where they were raised (for example a 1/2elf raised in elven community would get them; but if raised in a human community then no.) Since racial weapon familiarity is part of the upbringing for children of that race then no changing of the weapon proficiency for another weapon except for clerics to take the favored weapon of their deity.
cmas3117
05-29-07, 08:40 PM I would agree with the other poster, and I would add something. Someone who would ordinarily be proficient with a weapon because of their race, and would also be proficient with it because of their class, say an elf fighter with a longsword, I would also grant them an additional +1 to either their attack or damage rolls because of their additional training and experience with such a weapon.

cmas
Neutronium_Dragon
05-29-07, 10:18 PM While you might decide that it's logical for upbringing to alter the proficiencies, in practice this is a bad idea. The presence of those specific proficiencies is factored into the balance of the races' abilities, and if you start tampering with those - especially if you begin to substitute them for other things which aren't strictly equivalent or outright add or remove them from a race which doesn't or does normally have them - you're begging for trouble.
Ruike
05-30-07, 07:14 AM I'd say you'd have to look at it depending on whether or not the weapon itself is exotic. Elves for instance always get the proficiency for longsword, longbow, rapier and shortbow because they are normally martial, but dwarves treat dwarven waraxes and urgroshes as martial because they start at exotic. Notice though that dwarves don't get the ability to use them if they don't have martial weapon proficiency while elves get the feats whether they normally get martial or not. It should not give them extra familiarity (+1 to hit) simply for having both, that is what weapon focus is for and its giving an extra feat or stacking abilities when it shouldn't and giving them a +1 damage in addition is asking for much more trouble as you've basically said that any longsword is now effectively magical (as per the +1 enchantment).
YabaTheWhat
05-30-07, 07:38 AM Racial weapon proficiencies, and any bonuses based on upbringing or cultural training, have always bothered me. It forces the culture to be a certain way, thus limiting the campaign setting to fit a mold. What if dwarven civilization doesn't cross paths with giants? Why would dwarves and gnomes keep up anti-giant training for countless generations without any sort of benefit or motivation? Why would elves always be proficient in longswords, even if raised by a culture that doesn't have longswords? The list goes on.

For campaigns I run, I modify the racial traits for any race with culture-based bonuses. (Actually I modify the traits for most races anyway. I allow the changeling as is, since my own pre-Eberron version was pretty similar.) My core races may be found here (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/CoreRaces.htm), and a few of my homebrew creations appear in my signature.
Rinian2
05-30-07, 07:58 AM I feel that Weapon Familiarity are socially learned skills... like kids running around mimicking the adults that are their rolemodels.

Thus Dwarves get their weapons and Orcs get theirs because the Dwarves and Orcs that came before them introduced the comcept of the weapon and it caught on.

If a Dwarf was raised in a Dwarven community that didn't know of the weapons, they would be new and novel and thus would be exotic weapons.

I would guess that Racial Weapon Proficiencies would work in the same way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kn1ves 05-29-07, 07:02 PM	How do you people handle racial weapon proficiencies? Does every member of the race know how to use them no matter what? Do they have to be part of the community growing up to learn how to use them. If they grow up in another enviornment does it influence those proficiencies? Finally would you allow a character to switch out a proficiency for another one of equal power?
BugHunter 05-29-07, 08:18 PM	How do you people handle racial weapon proficiencies? Does every member of the race know how to use them no matter what? Do they have to be part of the community growing up to learn how to use them. If they grow up in another enviornment does it influence those proficiencies? Finally would you allow a character to switch out a proficiency for another one of equal power? For the full bloods (orcs, dwarves, elves, ...) I would give them the racial weapons no matter what class they take. For the half-races it would depend on where they were raised (for example a 1/2elf raised in elven community would get them; but if raised in a human community then no.) Since racial weapon familiarity is part of the upbringing for children of that race then no changing of the weapon proficiency for another weapon except for clerics to take the favored weapon of their deity.
cmas3117 05-29-07, 08:40 PM	I would agree with the other poster, and I would add something. Someone who would ordinarily be proficient with a weapon because of their race, and would also be proficient with it because of their class, say an elf fighter with a longsword, I would also grant them an additional +1 to either their attack or damage rolls because of their additional training and experience with such a weapon. cmas
Neutronium_Dragon 05-29-07, 10:18 PM	While you might decide that it's logical for upbringing to alter the proficiencies, in practice this is a bad idea. The presence of those specific proficiencies is factored into the balance of the races' abilities, and if you start tampering with those - especially if you begin to substitute them for other things which aren't strictly equivalent or outright add or remove them from a race which doesn't or does normally have them - you're begging for trouble.
Ruike 05-30-07, 07:14 AM	I'd say you'd have to look at it depending on whether or not the weapon itself is exotic. Elves for instance always get the proficiency for longsword, longbow, rapier and shortbow because they are normally martial, but dwarves treat dwarven waraxes and urgroshes as martial because they start at exotic. Notice though that dwarves don't get the ability to use them if they don't have martial weapon proficiency while elves get the feats whether they normally get martial or not. It should not give them extra familiarity (+1 to hit) simply for having both, that is what weapon focus is for and its giving an extra feat or stacking abilities when it shouldn't and giving them a +1 damage in addition is asking for much more trouble as you've basically said that any longsword is now effectively magical (as per the +1 enchantment).
YabaTheWhat 05-30-07, 07:38 AM	Racial weapon proficiencies, and any bonuses based on upbringing or cultural training, have always bothered me. It forces the culture to be a certain way, thus limiting the campaign setting to fit a mold. What if dwarven civilization doesn't cross paths with giants? Why would dwarves and gnomes keep up anti-giant training for countless generations without any sort of benefit or motivation? Why would elves always be proficient in longswords, even if raised by a culture that doesn't have longswords? The list goes on. For campaigns I run, I modify the racial traits for any race with culture-based bonuses. (Actually I modify the traits for most races anyway. I allow the changeling as is, since my own pre-Eberron version was pretty similar.) My core races may be found here (http://www.bajah.com/yabathewhat/DnD/CoreRaces.htm), and a few of my homebrew creations appear in my signature.
Rinian2 05-30-07, 07:58 AM	I feel that Weapon Familiarity are socially learned skills... like kids running around mimicking the adults that are their rolemodels. Thus Dwarves get their weapons and Orcs get theirs because the Dwarves and Orcs that came before them introduced the comcept of the weapon and it caught on. If a Dwarf was raised in a Dwarven community that didn't know of the weapons, they would be new and novel and thus would be exotic weapons. I would guess that Racial Weapon Proficiencies would work in the same way.