Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moradin 03-20-08, 01:00 AM	In my upcoming campaign, I'm making goblinoids have a more cultural and adversarial influence in the world. I'm channeling a lot of nostalgia into the campaign, drawing on aspects of the first adventures I ever played through, and goblins seem to always be a common factor. There are going to be some somewhat new players, and goblins are just a classic enemy to open up that first adventure and introduce nascent PCs. I am, however, working to tweak the goblinoids, making them my own for my own interest as well as that of the players that are more experienced. Goblins and their ilk always seem to fill a certain niche and always seem to act a certain way and play a certain role. I'm pulling the goblins out of the caves and making them a mobile overland people; trying to add in enough of a change to make them my own and more interesting while still staying true to their classic nature. I'm hitting some snags with the process. Goblins I have pretty much done, I think, but Hobgoblins and Bugbears are proving a bit more tedious. I'd like some feedback on what I have so far and some suggestions on what to add. Without further adieu, here's what I have so far: (My main problems are simply with statistics so I'll just be posting them with a general outline of flavor). Goblins: -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity. Goblins are small, but quick and agile. Small; As small creatures, Goblins receive a +1 bonus on attack rolls, a +1 bonus to armor class, and a +4 bonus to hide. They receive a -4 penalty to grapple checks and their lifting and carrying limits are 3/4 those of medium creatures. A Goblin's base land speed is 30 feet. Low-light vision. A Goblin can see twice as far as a human in torchlight, starlight, or other low-light conditions. +4 racial bonus to Ride checks (+6 when riding wolves). Goblins are natural riders and are especially skilled at riding wolves. Goblins always have Handle Animal as a class skill, regardless of their class. Goblins specialize in training animals as mounts and companions. +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (Geography) checks. Goblins are a well-traveled people who are skilled in using the land to their advantage. Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan. Favored Class: Scout Level Adjustment: +0 I removed the Goblins' -2 to charisma. This version is not the petty, cave-dwelling sneak-thief in-personable type of the classic example. While Goblinoids are generally a less-than-friendly race, they do not elicit the same negative feelings as is commonly seen by the more civilized races. I changed their darkvision to low-light to better represent the switch from underground to overland. I dropped the +4 to Move Silently checks and replaced it with a constant access to Handle Animal to better represent their role in Goblinoid society and the +2 to Knowledge (Geography) for a bit more flavor. Their favored class was changed from rogue to scout to fit their niche as outriders and to allude to the general mobility of the Goblinoid people. I'm pretty happy with the Goblins as they are now, but if anyone has any criticisms or suggestions, I'll take them kindly. Next, the Hobgoblins: +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma: Hobgoblins are a hardy breed with great leadership skills. Medium: As medium creatures, Hobgoblins receive no bonuses or penalties due to size. A Hobgoblin's base land speed is 30 feet. Low-Light Vision: Hobgoblins can see twice as far as humans in torchlight, starlight, and other low-light conditions. +2 morale bonus on saving throws to resist fear effects. Hobgoblins are a hard-edged people and are difficult to unman. Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan. Favored Class: Warblade Level Adjustment: +1 (Eventually) After that I'm a bit at a loss. Changes their +2 to dexterity to +2 to constitution; thinks it suits them more as the military strategists and leaders. Removed the +4 to move silently as per Goblins. I was originally going to give them the +2 to Knowledge (Geography) but am unsure now. Flavor-wise it makes sense that they would also have it but I wonder about the usefulness of having a bonus to a skill that can't be used untrained and is only a class skill for certain classes. I kept their favored class as Fighter as they are the core infantry combatants of the Goblinoid society and it works with their tactical/strategic focus. Their bonus to saves against fear and intimidation comes from their role as unbowed and unbent commanders; difficult to keep morale up if the leader is shaking in his greaves. They lack the Goblins' animal affinity, as they prefer, as said, infantry combat, though leaders are usually mounted. Any suggestions on abilities for Hobgoblins would be greatly appreciated. I was trying to think of something that they could get for commanding troops but nothing seemed to click. One idea was to have a bonus to attack and damage roles when commanding others in combat due to a confidence and fervor they experience, another was to have followers receive bonuses when under the command of a Hobgoblin, but it can be difficult and vague to determine "being under command" or "commanding" as rules. Anything to represent their leadership positions in a mobile, nomadic, versatile species. Now, for Bugbears: +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma Medium: As medium creatures, Hobgoblins receive no bonuses or penalties due to size. A Bugbear's base land speed is 30 feet. Low-Light Vision: Bugbears can see twice as far as humans in torchlight, starlight, and other low-light conditions. +3 natural armor bonus Racial Hit Dice: A Bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provides 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fortitude +2, Reflex +3, and Will +1. Racial Skills: A Bugbear's humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (2+ Intelligence modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Jump, Listen, Spot, and Survival. Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin, Worg. Bonus Languages: Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan. Favored Class: Barbarian Level Adjustment: +2 (Eventually) I'm in the same boat with Bugbears as I am with Hobgoblins. Their bonus to dexterity was dropped, as was their +4 to Move Silently, as Hobgoblins were. Again, Darkvision became Low-Light. Changed their class skills from Humanoid levels slightly, and I am thinking about decreasing their racial Hit Dice to two. Their favored class is now Barbarian, as they serve as the shock-troop berserks of the society. My idea for Bugbears is that they are the product of attempts in eons past to "anthropomorphize" Worgs, and survived to breed their own race. Their barbarianism fits with this (and their ability to speak the Worg language), as do the following ideas I have for them. None of these are set in stone, just ideas I have: Scent: Bugbears gain Scent as an extraordinary ability. Bound: When wearing light or no armor and carrying nothing in hand, a Bugbear can drop to all fours to run, increasing its land speed to 40 feet. Rising from all fours provokes attacks of opportunity, but a Bugbear can return to two legs as a swift action as a part of a move at any time. +2 Racial bonus on Climb/Jump/Spot/Listen (whichever). +1 bonus on attack rolls when using two-handed weapons. Bugbears are specifically trained to excel when fighting with two-handed weapons. Improved Low-Light Vision: A Bugbear can see three times as far as a human in torchlight, starlight, or other Low-Light conditions. (Not sure if this is the name for the ability or not, cannot remember off of the top of my head) Again, any ideas on racial abilities would be quite helpful. Well, there you have it. Any criticisms, suggestions, and ideas for any of the above is most appreciated. To close I'll give a brief summarization of the three species: Goblinoids: A mobile, versatile, overland race who are nomadic in nature. They have martial organization and a disciplined and civilized tribal culture. They are efficient in their warlike tendencies: fast-moving and well-organized. They lack the universal disdain of the common races and while they aren't outright despised and hated for being Goblinoids they still elicit a certain amount of distrust for their warlike renown (though most races could be considered warlike (humans, dwarves, et cetera), the fact that Goblinoids are constantly on the move strikes up the mistrust). Goblins: The outriders and forward scouts. They are natural animal handlers and specialize in mobility and mounted combat and are respected by their peers for their abilities. They are cunning and elusive. Hobgoblins: The core infantry. They are natural leaders and have great aptitude for boosting and keeping morale and keeping discipline. They are master strategists and weapons experts. Bugbears: Bugbears are more primal than their kin but no less capable and intelligent. They serve as the menacing berserkers, used to demoralize opponents and charge into battle full-force. They have ties to Worgs and in fact are the result of ancient attempts to anthropomorphize Worgs. Thanks in advance to any contributors.
Wheldrake 03-20-08, 04:40 AM	Those look fine as far as NPCs are concerned. Of course what will really make your goblinoids threatening is *character levels*. One thing I missed was any mention of level adjustment (LA). If these are potentially playable PC races, then they're going to need some LA to compensate for the stat bonuses, if nothing else. Cheers, --- Wheldrake
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-20-08, 04:51 AM	I think changing hobgoblins' favoured class to Marshal would help to reflect their tendency to be leaders, the class is all about granting bonuses to allies you fight with (and it would go nicely with the Cha bonus on your version). Also, go read. (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/) :P
ciaran 03-20-08, 08:25 AM	You could still keep the Goblins +4 to Hide checks (its about the only racial trait of ALL Gobliniods) and it would still be balanced. The Hobo could use some more swork. Don't know what.
Mercurius 03-20-08, 09:33 AM	I think changing hobgoblins' favoured class to Marshal would help to reflect their tendency to be leaders, the class is all about granting bonuses to allies you fight with (and it would go nicely with the Cha bonus on your version). Also, go read. (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/) :P I'd say Warblade or Crusader, myself. With White Raven maneuvers, you've got the commandery thing of the Marshal, and you don't suck by yourself, either.
Moradin 03-20-08, 01:57 PM	I had considered making the Marshal the Hobgoblin's favored class, but eventually decided against it. The flavor is nice on it and works well with the Hobgoblin, but overall the class is a little underwhelming. I had also thought of the Warblade in passing, but now that I've gone back and read up on White Raven, it seems more than suiting. Moreover, it will definitely give the Goblinoids something new and fresh. As for level adjustment, I wasn't concerned with it at the time of posting as I don't foresee them being PC races as of now, but to satiate curiosity, I pretty much plan on making the same as their Monster Manual counterparts. In my games I allow Hobgoblins to be played at +0 Level Adjustment, so I think I'll try to ability them up to the point of a true +1 LA. Goblins will stay with +0, of course, and Bugbears will either stay +1 LA with 3 racial HD or go to +2 LA with 2 racial HD, depending on abilities I, or anyone else, can think up.
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-20-08, 04:45 PM	If they're failed anthropomorphic goblin-worgs, heres how I'd treat them. Bugbears: Medium Goblinoid +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Int, -2 Charisma A Bugbear's base land speed is 40 feet. Low-Light Vision. +4 Survival: worgish scent and feral past makes bugbears hardier and difficult to escape. Track: Bugbears are inherently skilled trackers through even the worst conditions. +2 Listen and Spot, -2 Concentration: feral senses honed by survivalist habits make Bugbears alert but anxious. +2 to Trip Attacks: a favorite worg tactic, bugbears retain the instict to put their foes on the ground. Fur: Bugbears gain a +1 natural armor bonus to AC and a +3 to save against the effects of extreme cold. They take a -3 to save against the effects of extreme heat, for the same reason. Bound: Bugbears can drop to all fours and run so long as bearing a medium or less load and holding nothing in their hands. Their run speed increases to x5 (x6 with the Run feat) instead of x4. Charging while using Bound gives the Bugbear an additional +2 to attack and -2 to AC, or a +4 to Bull Rush and Overrun Attempts. A Bugbear may bound with only one free hand, doing so they only gain the bonus to the charge, not to their move speed or Bull Rush and Overruns. Illiterate: Bugbears are not an educated race and must spend a skill point to become literate in any of their known languages. Automatic Languages: Goblin, Worg. Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan. Favored Class: Barbarian LA +2 I added the int penalty because Worgs only have 6 int, so they aren't incredibly intelligence (just canny). LA+2 might be a little low for them, but might be a little high on the other hand since base land speed of 40 and a +4 Str is really good, so they might be a 3.
ciaran 03-23-08, 12:17 PM	Why is it what Handle animal is always a class skill but Ride is not?
aikimiller 03-23-08, 01:08 PM	Why is it what Handle animal is always a class skill but Ride is not? Because it is funny to watch them fall off A few other ideas for making goblins interesting- Lycanthropy- make one a werewolf, probably the leader of the tribe or something. Makes for an interesting BBEG. Bhukkas- they're a goblinoid race from Sandstorm. It is a completely different take on goblins. Meshes well with the Spirit Shaman class from Complete Divine. Guerrilla tactics- hit and run tactics, hide and ambush, ect. Probably not so much to start out, but a great way to teach newer players tactics (or at least give them ideas). Help- the goblins hit and run, and then go straight through an ogre encampment, or giant spider lair, or something like that.