Reverie: How Is It Different, Again? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reverie: How Is It Different, Again? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shiftkitty
12-24-07, 01:48 PM I know this has been asked before, but the threads I've seen all boil down to "They only need it four hours at a time, twice a day." Sounds like elf-napping to me.

According to the Complete Book of Elves (2e), reverie involves reliving the past, sometimes through literal imagery, sometimes through symbolic imagery. Sometimes they're pleasant, sometimes not. The individual can't control which memories are going to crop up, and sometimes there's a message inside the memory that may become apparent with enough contemplation. And this is different from a dream how?

The only major difference I can see between elven reverie and everyone else's sleeping is that sometimes the eyes will only half-way close. They remain oblivioius to things going on around them unless someone or something is diruptive enough to disturb them, just like someone who's sleeping.

Have I missed something? This isn't a major issue or anything, but one of my players has an elf character with a touch of human blood. He wanted it to show through in some way without being classed as a half-elf or just making it some kind of appearance thing. We settled on his PC needing 8 hours of actual sleep every four days. His character is in denial that he actually sleeps, insisting it's just a 'very deep reverie' that often involves snoring. Is there some way to make his sleep period something different from reverie except by length of time needed? (Hee hee, and do elves ever have "wet reveries"?:D )
CryoSilver
12-24-07, 01:55 PM He could sit and meditate in full lotus instead of lying down. He might also speak clearly while meditating (though it might be strings of nonsense, or fragments of conversation and sentences).
Talisman
12-25-07, 12:36 AM This concept was taken straight from Tolkien, you realize.

Elves don't sleep in the manner of Men; they relive their memories and past experiences as vividly as if they were actually occuring again. This is, perhaps, what allows the nigh-immortal elves to remain sane throught their long lives, and to have keen, sharp memories.

Elves "sleep" with their eyes open. They relive memories--perhaps an elf could "sleep-talk" about things from his past. Someone who sleeps will sometimes remember their dreams (often hazily), sometimes not. Someone who reveries will vividly recall their memories, as though they had just happened yesterday.
Jaxgaret
12-25-07, 12:57 AM Half-Elves trance the same as full Elves, IMO. My reasoning for this? Both Elves and Half-Elves have this entry in their racial information:

Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects

Which would lead one to believe that Half-Elves don't sleep.

So your Humantouched Elf shouldn't trance any different from a full-blooded Elf.
Lord Karsus
12-25-07, 07:58 AM Half-Elves trance the same as full Elves, IMO. My reasoning for this? Both Elves and Half-Elves have this entry in their racial information:

Which would lead one to believe that Half-Elves don't sleep.

So your Humantouched Elf shouldn't trance any different from a full-blooded Elf.

-Elves aren't fully Elven in nature. So, while they are resistant to Sleep spells, and the like, they aren't Elven enough to enter into Reverie.
Jaxgaret
12-25-07, 01:53 PM -Elves aren't fully Elven in nature. So, while they are resistant to Sleep spells, and the like, they aren't Elven enough to enter into Reverie.

Half-Elves are Immune to Sleep, not resistant to it. You think that they retain the Elven full Immunity to Sleep, which is entirely based on the fact that Elves don't sleep, they trance, without the trance mechanic?
Lord Karsus
12-25-07, 03:26 PM Half-Elves are Immune to Sleep, not resistant to it. You think that they retain the Elven full Immunity to Sleep, which is entirely based on the fact that Elves don't sleep, they trance, without the trance mechanic?

-Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple.
Artifact
12-25-07, 04:00 PM This concept was taken straight from Tolkien, you realize.

I hadn't realized Tolkien introduced the concept of reverie for elves. Interesting.

He could sit and meditate in full lotus instead of lying down. He might also speak clearly while meditating (though it might be strings of nonsense, or fragments of conversation and sentences).

I like the idea of an elf speaking in complete (if non-sensical) sentences.

-Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple.

Another really cool idea: Reverie as it concerns wounded and dark elves. Not to derail the thread, but does anyone have any specific info on the subject of drow and reverie? (besides what Lord Karsus has already provided, that is ;)).

(Hee hee, and do elves ever have "wet reveries"? )

I guess its possible, since (as Talisman mentions) they seem to relive memories and past experiences vividly. Might make for a cool flashback scene, although wouldn't it be a challenge to retell it without being explicit? (unless that's your intent, of course :P).
Lord Karsus
12-25-07, 04:30 PM Another really cool idea: Reverie as it concerns wounded and dark elves. Not to derail the thread, but does anyone have any specific info on the subject of drow and reverie? (besides what Lord Karsus has already provided, that is ;)).

-Most of it stems from 2e sourcebooks and Forgotten Realms novels.
Jaxgaret
12-25-07, 04:58 PM -Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple.

So why are Half-Elves immune to Sleep?

Also, in D&D 3.5, Elves' rest period is called trance, not reverie.
Lord Karsus
12-25-07, 06:19 PM So why are Half-Elves immune to Sleep?

-Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep.

Also, in D&D 3.5, Elves' rest period is called trance, not reverie.

-In your game, not mine. ;)
Jaxgaret
12-25-07, 11:49 PM -Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep.

-In your game, not mine. ;)

Fair enough :)
Artifact
12-26-07, 01:46 AM -Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep.

-In your game, not mine. ;)

Just add a "ditto" there for me, as well. "Reverie" has a more fantastical sound to it then "trance". Wonder why they decided to drop it in favor of a more bland term? Tolkien's estate threatening to sue (again) or something? ;)
Lord Karsus
12-26-07, 01:53 AM Just add a "ditto" there for me, as well. "Reverie" has a more fantastical sound to it then "trance". Wonder why they decided to drop it in favor of a more bland term? Tolkien's estate threatening to sue (again) or something? ;)

-You've got me.

-But, 'reverie', is an actual word, not a made-up one or anything, that literally means "a state of dreamy meditation or fanciful musing". No meddling by the Tolkien estate this time.
Wharin
12-26-07, 02:41 AM For what its worth, in the PHB II (or maybe it was the Heroes of Battle) with those team work functions, the one that let the entire group entire Reverie only required the "leader" to be elven or half-elven.

That combined with the sleep immunity would imply, in my eyes, that half-elves can indeed enter Reverie, under normal circumstance.
Artifact
12-26-07, 02:56 AM -You've got me.

-But, 'reverie', is an actual word, not a made-up one or anything, that literally means "a state of dreamy meditation or fanciful musing". No meddling by the Tolkien estate this time.

Right. Its an actual word, which means no one should be able to "copyright", "trademark" it or anything along those lines. Maybe the designers of 3e felt "reverie" wouldn't be understood as well as "trance". Sometimes I think they under-estimate the intelligence of their audience. I can see how that would be a concern though; D&D is a pretty complex game ;). Some things though, fantasy fans just "get"; reverie is one of those things.
Lord Karsus
12-26-07, 03:35 AM Right. Its an actual word, which means no one should be able to "copyright", "trademark" it or anything along those lines. Maybe the designers of 3e felt "reverie" wouldn't be understood as well as "trance". Sometimes I think they under-estimate the intelligence of their audience. I can see how that would be a concern though; D&D is a pretty complex game ;). Some things though, fantasy fans just "get"; reverie is one of those things.

-That's what I think, too: It is assumed that 'reverie' is a word that "we" don't get, whereas 'trance' is a phrase that "we" will understand. Meh, whatever. Like I said earlier, "not in my campaign". :)
Lionhearted
12-26-07, 09:36 AM Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either.
Wait? what?
You might have to read some more forgotten realms novels, Drizzt is clearly entering Reverie several times in the early books
Lord Karsus
12-26-07, 09:40 AM Wait? what?
You might have to read some more forgotten realms novels, Drizzt is clearly entering Reverie several times in the early books

-And Salvatore clearly disregards lore. It's his modus operandi. When something doesn't suit him, he ignores it. This "victim" this time- reverie. How many times has Liriel Baenre slept (literally and figurativley) with Fyodor of Rasheman?
Shiftkitty
12-26-07, 10:54 AM In WotSQ, the drow can enter reverie. One even drinks herself into it.
Lord Karsus
12-26-07, 10:58 AM In WotSQ, the drow can enter reverie. One even drinks herself into it.

-How can one drink themself into a relaxed meditative, contemplative state? I'm my limited experiences, drunk =/= relaxed, meditative, and contemplative. Again, continuity errors.
Shiftkitty
12-26-07, 12:38 PM And that's a good part of my question of how reverie is supposed to be different from sleep. In my game, reverie is a biological thing, not imparted by a god, so the drow do go into the reverie, but that's neither here nor there as pertains to my original question. I think I've gotten enough answers to craft something like sleep but not sleep.
Lord Karsus
12-26-07, 02:42 PM And that's a good part of my question of how reverie is supposed to be different from sleep.

-Well, I meant that as a rhetorical question, to demonstrate the foolishness of that notion.
Jaxgaret
12-26-07, 03:02 PM For what its worth, in the PHB II (or maybe it was the Heroes of Battle) with those team work functions, the one that let the entire group entire Reverie only required the "leader" to be elven or half-elven.

That combined with the sleep immunity would imply, in my eyes, that half-elves can indeed enter Reverie, under normal circumstance.

It's in PHBII, is called Group Trance, and does indeed have a prerequisite of "Elf or Half-Elf".

Sweet vindication. :)

Thanks Wharin.
1 ton ghost
12-27-07, 01:36 PM firstly, humans can and do enter reverie...out-of-game though ;) . it is a psychology term, specifically cognition & dream theory; it is marked w/ delta wave activity (REM, you're technically dreaming still), some limited reasoning, and typically sleep paralysis, but not always, the later i mean; just a defense mechanism so you don't hurt yourself/partner by acting out your dream. this is especially dangerous in reverie though as you're not quite fully on-line so to speak, 1/2 way between your dream and waking so you can imagine the potential for crazy sh-t to happen.
anyway, long story short, it's rare, but it does happen. file it w/ sleep walking/talking as they're nearly identical in many respects and the 2 flirt w/ each other quite a bit. most of us have probably had it happen, though only 25% of us can actually dream lucidly.

-elves, trancing/entering reverie, whatever the Hell you want to call it...i call it an unfair advantage. i mean, they're getting centuries extra lifetime and only need 4hrs downtime while the rest of us sleep 1/3 of our lives and need 8hrs. wtf? ironically, factory pre-set elves (moon for FR or high elves for generic) get Wizard as a favord class, and 4 hrs. doesn't cut it, all arcane need 8 i thought. another reason i like clerics.
-mechanics; they need to get some documentation on this post-haste. 4 hrs less vulnerable in the wild is really nice, specially w/ Spot & Listen buffs, but are they in repose (prone) like us? typically, they should be.
i house rule 50/50. you can sit full lotus, what have you, but given comfort and back pain of adventuring, heavy armor, etc., what would you do, you know? after a hard day of risking my life, killing stuff, and looting, i would crash very very hard.
-lotus i rule as 1/2 prone, that is, -2 AC instead of -4, but you're Helpless regardless, ie)coup de "grace-able" :rolleyes: as the rest of us.
eyes open during is irrelevant. YOU ARE OUT. elves SHOULD have the same Listen/Spot penalties as all races when sleeping, trancing, med'ing, etc. they have a racial bonus to begin w/. fair is fair. not to mention low-light. i mean, consider generic party 'x' sleeping/trancing in a forest at night. who's more than likely going to survive ambush 'y' vs. goblins?
-drow; no biggie. some trance, some don't. call it artistic license. Salvatore, Tokien...like it matters. are they your DMs or are you?
the only thing that matters is 4 vs. 8 hrs. i'm inclined to say 4 given the proclivity of assassinations among drow and the attrition of the Underdark. that is, when are you most vulnerable? sleeping.
-Group Trance; nj mentioning that. terribly practical and worthwhile. still, guard duty is a "duty". so, like i've heard of late, "ante up b-tch, it's Christmas."

on that note, Happy New Year and happy gaming everyone. get drunk kids.
Lord Karsus
12-27-07, 02:30 PM -Another House Rule I use is: "If necessary, an Elf can force himself out of the Reverie, but they will be confused for a short time after doing so (Stunned for 1D6 rounds)."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiftkitty 12-24-07, 01:48 PM	I know this has been asked before, but the threads I've seen all boil down to "They only need it four hours at a time, twice a day." Sounds like elf-napping to me. According to the Complete Book of Elves (2e), reverie involves reliving the past, sometimes through literal imagery, sometimes through symbolic imagery. Sometimes they're pleasant, sometimes not. The individual can't control which memories are going to crop up, and sometimes there's a message inside the memory that may become apparent with enough contemplation. And this is different from a dream how? The only major difference I can see between elven reverie and everyone else's sleeping is that sometimes the eyes will only half-way close. They remain oblivioius to things going on around them unless someone or something is diruptive enough to disturb them, just like someone who's sleeping. Have I missed something? This isn't a major issue or anything, but one of my players has an elf character with a touch of human blood. He wanted it to show through in some way without being classed as a half-elf or just making it some kind of appearance thing. We settled on his PC needing 8 hours of actual sleep every four days. His character is in denial that he actually sleeps, insisting it's just a 'very deep reverie' that often involves snoring. Is there some way to make his sleep period something different from reverie except by length of time needed? (Hee hee, and do elves ever have "wet reveries"?:D )
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 01:55 PM	He could sit and meditate in full lotus instead of lying down. He might also speak clearly while meditating (though it might be strings of nonsense, or fragments of conversation and sentences).
Talisman 12-25-07, 12:36 AM	This concept was taken straight from Tolkien, you realize. Elves don't sleep in the manner of Men; they relive their memories and past experiences as vividly as if they were actually occuring again. This is, perhaps, what allows the nigh-immortal elves to remain sane throught their long lives, and to have keen, sharp memories. Elves "sleep" with their eyes open. They relive memories--perhaps an elf could "sleep-talk" about things from his past. Someone who sleeps will sometimes remember their dreams (often hazily), sometimes not. Someone who reveries will vividly recall their memories, as though they had just happened yesterday.
Jaxgaret 12-25-07, 12:57 AM	Half-Elves trance the same as full Elves, IMO. My reasoning for this? Both Elves and Half-Elves have this entry in their racial information: Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects Which would lead one to believe that Half-Elves don't sleep. So your Humantouched Elf shouldn't trance any different from a full-blooded Elf.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 07:58 AM	Half-Elves trance the same as full Elves, IMO. My reasoning for this? Both Elves and Half-Elves have this entry in their racial information: Which would lead one to believe that Half-Elves don't sleep. So your Humantouched Elf shouldn't trance any different from a full-blooded Elf. -Elves aren't fully Elven in nature. So, while they are resistant to Sleep spells, and the like, they aren't Elven enough to enter into Reverie.
Jaxgaret 12-25-07, 01:53 PM	-Elves aren't fully Elven in nature. So, while they are resistant to Sleep spells, and the like, they aren't Elven enough to enter into Reverie. Half-Elves are Immune to Sleep, not resistant to it. You think that they retain the Elven full Immunity to Sleep, which is entirely based on the fact that Elves don't sleep, they trance, without the trance mechanic?
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 03:26 PM	Half-Elves are Immune to Sleep, not resistant to it. You think that they retain the Elven full Immunity to Sleep, which is entirely based on the fact that Elves don't sleep, they trance, without the trance mechanic? -Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple.
Artifact 12-25-07, 04:00 PM	This concept was taken straight from Tolkien, you realize. I hadn't realized Tolkien introduced the concept of reverie for elves. Interesting. He could sit and meditate in full lotus instead of lying down. He might also speak clearly while meditating (though it might be strings of nonsense, or fragments of conversation and sentences). I like the idea of an elf speaking in complete (if non-sensical) sentences. -Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple. Another really cool idea: Reverie as it concerns wounded and dark elves. Not to derail the thread, but does anyone have any specific info on the subject of drow and reverie? (besides what Lord Karsus has already provided, that is ;)). (Hee hee, and do elves ever have "wet reveries"? ) I guess its possible, since (as Talisman mentions) they seem to relive memories and past experiences vividly. Might make for a cool flashback scene, although wouldn't it be a challenge to retell it without being explicit? (unless that's your intent, of course :P).
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 04:30 PM	Another really cool idea: Reverie as it concerns wounded and dark elves. Not to derail the thread, but does anyone have any specific info on the subject of drow and reverie? (besides what Lord Karsus has already provided, that is ;)). -Most of it stems from 2e sourcebooks and Forgotten Realms novels.
Jaxgaret 12-25-07, 04:58 PM	-Yup. The Elven reverie is a special gift given to the Elves by Corellon Larethian. Only Elves who are "right" may enter it. Elves who are grievously wounded cannot enter into Reverie- they fall asleep as normal Humans do. Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. I wouldn't allow Half-Elves to enter into Reverie, as their Human side is not Elven, pure and simple. So why are Half-Elves immune to Sleep? Also, in D&D 3.5, Elves' rest period is called trance, not reverie.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 06:19 PM	So why are Half-Elves immune to Sleep? -Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep. Also, in D&D 3.5, Elves' rest period is called trance, not reverie. -In your game, not mine. ;)
Jaxgaret 12-25-07, 11:49 PM	-Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep. -In your game, not mine. ;) Fair enough :)
Artifact 12-26-07, 01:46 AM	-Vestige of their Elven heritage. While they cannot enter into Reverie, they are still resistant and immune to effects that would put one to sleep. -In your game, not mine. ;) Just add a "ditto" there for me, as well. "Reverie" has a more fantastical sound to it then "trance". Wonder why they decided to drop it in favor of a more bland term? Tolkien's estate threatening to sue (again) or something? ;)
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 01:53 AM	Just add a "ditto" there for me, as well. "Reverie" has a more fantastical sound to it then "trance". Wonder why they decided to drop it in favor of a more bland term? Tolkien's estate threatening to sue (again) or something? ;) -You've got me. -But, 'reverie', is an actual word, not a made-up one or anything, that literally means "a state of dreamy meditation or fanciful musing". No meddling by the Tolkien estate this time.
Wharin 12-26-07, 02:41 AM	For what its worth, in the PHB II (or maybe it was the Heroes of Battle) with those team work functions, the one that let the entire group entire Reverie only required the "leader" to be elven or half-elven. That combined with the sleep immunity would imply, in my eyes, that half-elves can indeed enter Reverie, under normal circumstance.
Artifact 12-26-07, 02:56 AM	-You've got me. -But, 'reverie', is an actual word, not a made-up one or anything, that literally means "a state of dreamy meditation or fanciful musing". No meddling by the Tolkien estate this time. Right. Its an actual word, which means no one should be able to "copyright", "trademark" it or anything along those lines. Maybe the designers of 3e felt "reverie" wouldn't be understood as well as "trance". Sometimes I think they under-estimate the intelligence of their audience. I can see how that would be a concern though; D&D is a pretty complex game ;). Some things though, fantasy fans just "get"; reverie is one of those things.
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 03:35 AM	Right. Its an actual word, which means no one should be able to "copyright", "trademark" it or anything along those lines. Maybe the designers of 3e felt "reverie" wouldn't be understood as well as "trance". Sometimes I think they under-estimate the intelligence of their audience. I can see how that would be a concern though; D&D is a pretty complex game ;). Some things though, fantasy fans just "get"; reverie is one of those things. -That's what I think, too: It is assumed that 'reverie' is a word that "we" don't get, whereas 'trance' is a phrase that "we" will understand. Meh, whatever. Like I said earlier, "not in my campaign". :)
Lionhearted 12-26-07, 09:36 AM	Drow, who have been "excommunicated" from the "Elven Family" cannot enter into Reverie either. Wait? what? You might have to read some more forgotten realms novels, Drizzt is clearly entering Reverie several times in the early books
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 09:40 AM	Wait? what? You might have to read some more forgotten realms novels, Drizzt is clearly entering Reverie several times in the early books -And Salvatore clearly disregards lore. It's his modus operandi. When something doesn't suit him, he ignores it. This "victim" this time- reverie. How many times has Liriel Baenre slept (literally and figurativley) with Fyodor of Rasheman?
Shiftkitty 12-26-07, 10:54 AM	In WotSQ, the drow can enter reverie. One even drinks herself into it.
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 10:58 AM	In WotSQ, the drow can enter reverie. One even drinks herself into it. -How can one drink themself into a relaxed meditative, contemplative state? I'm my limited experiences, drunk =/= relaxed, meditative, and contemplative. Again, continuity errors.
Shiftkitty 12-26-07, 12:38 PM	And that's a good part of my question of how reverie is supposed to be different from sleep. In my game, reverie is a biological thing, not imparted by a god, so the drow do go into the reverie, but that's neither here nor there as pertains to my original question. I think I've gotten enough answers to craft something like sleep but not sleep.
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 02:42 PM	And that's a good part of my question of how reverie is supposed to be different from sleep. -Well, I meant that as a rhetorical question, to demonstrate the foolishness of that notion.
Jaxgaret 12-26-07, 03:02 PM	For what its worth, in the PHB II (or maybe it was the Heroes of Battle) with those team work functions, the one that let the entire group entire Reverie only required the "leader" to be elven or half-elven. That combined with the sleep immunity would imply, in my eyes, that half-elves can indeed enter Reverie, under normal circumstance. It's in PHBII, is called Group Trance, and does indeed have a prerequisite of "Elf or Half-Elf". Sweet vindication. :) Thanks Wharin.
1 ton ghost 12-27-07, 01:36 PM	firstly, humans can and do enter reverie...out-of-game though ;) . it is a psychology term, specifically cognition & dream theory; it is marked w/ delta wave activity (REM, you're technically dreaming still), some limited reasoning, and typically sleep paralysis, but not always, the later i mean; just a defense mechanism so you don't hurt yourself/partner by acting out your dream. this is especially dangerous in reverie though as you're not quite fully on-line so to speak, 1/2 way between your dream and waking so you can imagine the potential for crazy sh-t to happen. anyway, long story short, it's rare, but it does happen. file it w/ sleep walking/talking as they're nearly identical in many respects and the 2 flirt w/ each other quite a bit. most of us have probably had it happen, though only 25% of us can actually dream lucidly. -elves, trancing/entering reverie, whatever the Hell you want to call it...i call it an unfair advantage. i mean, they're getting centuries extra lifetime and only need 4hrs downtime while the rest of us sleep 1/3 of our lives and need 8hrs. wtf? ironically, factory pre-set elves (moon for FR or high elves for generic) get Wizard as a favord class, and 4 hrs. doesn't cut it, all arcane need 8 i thought. another reason i like clerics. -mechanics; they need to get some documentation on this post-haste. 4 hrs less vulnerable in the wild is really nice, specially w/ Spot & Listen buffs, but are they in repose (prone) like us? typically, they should be. i house rule 50/50. you can sit full lotus, what have you, but given comfort and back pain of adventuring, heavy armor, etc., what would you do, you know? after a hard day of risking my life, killing stuff, and looting, i would crash very very hard. -lotus i rule as 1/2 prone, that is, -2 AC instead of -4, but you're Helpless regardless, ie)coup de "grace-able" :rolleyes: as the rest of us. eyes open during is irrelevant. YOU ARE OUT. elves SHOULD have the same Listen/Spot penalties as all races when sleeping, trancing, med'ing, etc. they have a racial bonus to begin w/. fair is fair. not to mention low-light. i mean, consider generic party 'x' sleeping/trancing in a forest at night. who's more than likely going to survive ambush 'y' vs. goblins? -drow; no biggie. some trance, some don't. call it artistic license. Salvatore, Tokien...like it matters. are they your DMs or are you? the only thing that matters is 4 vs. 8 hrs. i'm inclined to say 4 given the proclivity of assassinations among drow and the attrition of the Underdark. that is, when are you most vulnerable? sleeping. -Group Trance; nj mentioning that. terribly practical and worthwhile. still, guard duty is a "duty". so, like i've heard of late, "ante up b-tch, it's Christmas." on that note, Happy New Year and happy gaming everyone. get drunk kids.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 02:30 PM	-Another House Rule I use is: "If necessary, an Elf can force himself out of the Reverie, but they will be confused for a short time after doing so (Stunned for 1D6 rounds)."