Rules Question: point buy and racial modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rules Question: point buy and racial modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
naturax
04-28-07, 12:03 AM What is the official ruling for pen and paper D&D when using the point buy system of ability score generation described on page 169 of the DMG: do you apply racial ability modifiers before or after spending points?

Thanks!
SD
04-28-07, 12:05 AM After. Point buy takes the place of the die-roll step, and racial modifiers are applied after the die rolls.

In this manner, 1st-level characters with stats of 18 (22 if you're an orc or mongrelfolk) are physically possible, just like with rolling.
naturax
04-28-07, 12:24 AM After. Point buy takes the place of the die-roll step, and racial modifiers are applied after the die rolls.

In this manner, 1st-level characters with stats of 18 (22 if you're an orc or mongrelfolk) are physically possible, just like with rolling.

Thanks SD! I really appreciate it.
Naderion
04-28-07, 02:43 AM If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect.
YabaTheWhat
04-30-07, 08:59 AM If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect. Except that the person would be charged more for buying those high scores, making their overall ability scores lower.

As others stated, racial ability modifiers are applied after completing the point buy.
darkeness
04-30-07, 09:09 AM If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect.

Not true at all. Either you don't understand the point buy system or you dan't have a firm grasp of math (or maybe a little of both :P ). Say a race has ability mods of +2/-2. You can buy a 16 for 10 points, then get +2 making that stat an 18 (which costs 16 points). Buying a second 16 (10 points) with a -2 mod gives you a 14 (6 points). This means you spent 20 points to get 22 points worth of stats that a character without ability bonuses would not have. Using a +4 stat modifier and/or min-maxing makes the scores even further out of wack.

I should note that in my experience using a 32 point buy sytem often works out, on average, about the same as using the 4d6 method. You just get to customize your stats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
naturax 04-28-07, 12:03 AM	What is the official ruling for pen and paper D&D when using the point buy system of ability score generation described on page 169 of the DMG: do you apply racial ability modifiers before or after spending points? Thanks!
SD 04-28-07, 12:05 AM	After. Point buy takes the place of the die-roll step, and racial modifiers are applied after the die rolls. In this manner, 1st-level characters with stats of 18 (22 if you're an orc or mongrelfolk) are physically possible, just like with rolling.
naturax 04-28-07, 12:24 AM	After. Point buy takes the place of the die-roll step, and racial modifiers are applied after the die rolls. In this manner, 1st-level characters with stats of 18 (22 if you're an orc or mongrelfolk) are physically possible, just like with rolling. Thanks SD! I really appreciate it.
Naderion 04-28-07, 02:43 AM	If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect.
YabaTheWhat 04-30-07, 08:59 AM	If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect. Except that the person would be charged more for buying those high scores, making their overall ability scores lower. As others stated, racial ability modifiers are applied after completing the point buy.
darkeness 04-30-07, 09:09 AM	If you apply them before, they will also have no real effect. Not true at all. Either you don't understand the point buy system or you dan't have a firm grasp of math (or maybe a little of both :P ). Say a race has ability mods of +2/-2. You can buy a 16 for 10 points, then get +2 making that stat an 18 (which costs 16 points). Buying a second 16 (10 points) with a -2 mod gives you a 14 (6 points). This means you spent 20 points to get 22 points worth of stats that a character without ability bonuses would not have. Using a +4 stat modifier and/or min-maxing makes the scores even further out of wack. I should note that in my experience using a 32 point buy sytem often works out, on average, about the same as using the 4d6 method. You just get to customize your stats.