Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skydin 07-24-07, 11:57 PM	for anyone who hasnt read the deathgate cycle by margaret weis and tracy hickman, the sartan and patryn were powerful rune-using mutants, who made the strongest wizards look like noobs. I myself of course, cannot make a balanced race for the life of me. whenever i try it ends up making gods look like noobs (thats what sartans are supposed to do, but still), so i was wondering how anyone who has any idea what their talking about would stat these out.
strenoth 07-25-07, 03:09 AM	I loved the series, BUT: Just don't even try and make them into DnD races, their abilites just do not fit well at all. Epic level races at the least.
Ghostwheel 07-25-07, 03:09 AM	The two races are uber only in context of their imagined universe. If you want to make them unique from each other simply use two different systems for their spell-casting. Beyond that, all you need do is determine what levels apply to the various characters and then scale what you want to do accordingly.
skydin 07-25-07, 03:12 AM	or, in english (well, simpler english anyway. im not feeling like reading big words right now. check with me when my brain isnt rotting from lack of mental excersize)
Ghostwheel 07-25-07, 03:23 AM	or, in english (well, simpler english anyway. im not feeling like reading big words right now. check with me when my brain isnt rotting from lack of mental excersize) OK: Have one race use Psionics, and the other use Arcane magic. Or Arcane/Clerical. Or Any System/Any System. It depends on how much work you have the time to do, what books you have to work with, and your willingness to work toward what your goal.
skydin 07-25-07, 04:35 AM	thats a little better.
CzarGarrett 07-25-07, 07:47 AM	I almost feel like the best option for doing something like this, is to have a somewhat powerful but not too insanely powerful baseline race. Then, have racially specific classes that have significant boosts to their normal racial abilities. Like for the Patryn, you could have classes of: Runner, Squatter, Cheiftan, etc. Thats about the only way I think super-poweredness from the beginning can be avoided.
skydin 07-25-07, 08:54 AM	of course, i always like it when people come up with a super-overpowered version too, makes the silly games i run just for fun alot easier. but those are all good ideas.
RealSorceror 07-25-07, 03:05 PM	Patryn rune casting is the shazbot. The Sartans almost seem to cast like Bards, what with all the dancing and singing. Although they seem more wizardy, I don't think they actually prepare spells in the traditional sense. They might even be divine casters. The Patryns draw runes in the air. The only thing that comes to mind is the Geometer from Complete Arcane. However, it is pretty clear that Patryns are spontaneous casters. Psionsics are a possibilty, especially since psionic tattoes fit the flavor of the Patryn tribal tattoes. However, psionic powers don't have somantic components, and Patryn magic has blatant somatic requirements. The Kalashtar and Empty Vessel are good as starting points. The runes of the Illumians might be useful as well.
Infernostrider 07-25-07, 03:20 PM	great series, but if you work them into the game then you have to add level 10+ spells to use as runes. that way sartan/patryn can be epic classes which have access to these specific spells, and the spells themselves need to be limited to the extreme