Satyr as a Race, but +0 LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Satyr as a Race, but +0 LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-06-08, 05:26 PM I'd really like to see the Satyr become a race of their own. Maybe I'm just enchanged with the faun, but I like the idea alot. I don't really want to make them all Fey, but I'd like them to retain some of those qualities. This is how I see the Satyr.

Satyr
Medium Huminoid
30ft move speed
+2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int
-While Satyr are witty and nimble, they are slight and lack formal educations.
Low Light Vision
+2 Perform (selected at start)
-Satyr enjoy many forms of art, while most are drawn to dancing or music, some take up other paths
+2 Hide & Move Silently
-Satyr are fond of pranks and tricks, most of which require subtlety
+2 Survival & Jump
-Satyr culture is not sedentary and is generally moves once per season and their physical frame makes them powerful jumpers
Natural attack, Head Butt 1d4 20x2 Bludgeoning damage.
-Satyr first learn defence by using their hornsA Faun with a Cha of 10 or more may Fascinate 1/day as a Bard of equal level. The Satyr gains another daily use of Fascinate per additional 5 levels (6th, 11th, 16th).
Half-Fey: Though not fully fey, Satyr are subject to many of the same weaknesses and strengths as the fey. Any effect that works on or against a fey creature also functions against a Satyr. However Satyr get a +3 to save against such effects, and the spells or effects of Fey creatures. Because the Satyr is not fully fey, they cannot choose to fail these saves.

Physical Description: The Satyr look like tradition Pan figures, with cloven hooves, deer's legs and lower torso, a humanoid upper torso, arms, and a head cropped with two goat like horns. Their features tend towards a cruel yet beautiful symmetry. Their fur matches their hair, and runs from a light tan to a deep black, usually with a reddish hue. Satyr eyes are of many or any color, generally changing either with the season or the time of day. Male Satyr favor their humanoid side with non-fur body hair on their upper torso and arms whereas female Satyr favor their doe like heritage with short and soft fur on their upper torso and most of their arms.

Cultural Description: Satyr usually live within a general area or forest, but rarely establish permanent residences until they are too old to move without assistance. A given territory of forest can range between five to thirty miles, which the Satyr will defend from other Satyr with a mix of traditional games and trickery. Fights between Satyr are nearly non-existant, humiliation is both preferred and more painful than a battering, and most Satyr grow tired of conflict and resolve that nothing has been resolved.

Children are taught to use their wits and wisdom from an early age. They game with other children at composing clever lyrics, songs, and pranks. A good prank is always appreciated, especially by adults who take its success and a sign their child is competent and learning, a bad prank is sorely frowned upon as a sign of laziness or incompetance. Far from over the top, all Satyr are taught "Sometimes the best prank is none."

Satyr refer to their own tribes as "gruppos" which roughly means many people. Satyr tribes are not family or tradition oriented. They are bands of Satyr that seem to get along, like a group of friends. Each gruppo is led by a tripart council. The greatest Prankster, Performer, and "Puggo" (Run-jumper). Between the three of them decisions are made, though those decisions are both few and non-decisive.

Thats my idea, I don't think its going to be overpowered (I'm balancing it against 4e at the moment). I do worry that it is either bland or weak, especially since I'm not actually aware of any anti-fey magic or powers (theres got to be some!?!?).

How does this stack up balance and flavor wise?
jradd777
03-06-08, 06:16 PM Sorry not to critique just yet, but your interest makes me wonder...are you aware of the faun that is already made? No, I don't mean the satyr either, if that's what you're thinking. There's a faun in Deities and Demigods (I think it's a 3.0 supplement, technically) it was errata'ed to be LA 0 for PC's. Maybe check it out, if you didn't already know about it... if you did, I'll take a closer look at this fella you made.
Rebel7284
03-07-08, 03:32 PM The fact that i would LOVE to play this as a sorcerer makes me doubt if it's balanced. +cha, +dex, bo penalty to CON!?! Natural attacks generally warrant an LA too. This is just my gut instinct.

edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race.
AZNsupermarket
03-08-08, 01:43 AM The fact that i would LOVE to play this as a sorcerer makes me doubt if it's balanced. +cha, +dex, bo penalty to CON!?! Natural attacks generally warrant an LA too. This is just my gut instinct.

edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race.

Better yet, who would want to play any other race when playing a bard?

+cha, +dex, no penalty to CON, and +2 perform checks???

my recommendation: change one of the penalties from either int or str to con and do something about the bonus to perform checks.

(I'm balancing it against 4e at the moment).

Wait... you're balancing it against for 4th edition?? :confused:

HUH?

Do you know what 4th edition races will even be like?

So far we've only seen the elf. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071221&authentic=true
ciaran
03-08-08, 01:51 AM edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race.

Holy CRAP! Don't get me started!!
ciaran
03-08-08, 02:02 AM On the subject of your race, LA +0 races are more palatable with one +2 ability and one -2 ability.

Is there a single race in PH with a natural attack? No. I feel that removing this would not downplay the race's effectiveness.

Is exchange, I would come up with some non-class-specific boost. Something that would make players want to play different classes with this. If there is a clearly obvious choice then you're off-base.

Otherwise, I say it looks fine. I congradulate you for not pushing the limits. It seems mostly like a variant race catered to new role-playing experiences.

Oh, and Fauns, according to C. S. Lewis, are more like Half-Deer. I understand your inclination to seek a close name. Perhaps a Faun injection would inspire some new life?
AZNsupermarket
03-08-08, 02:28 AM On the subject of your race, LA +0 races are more palatable with one +2 ability and one -2 ability.
That my simplify things a bit, although there are quite a few LA +0 races with two +2 abilities and two -2 abilities.
Is there a single race in PH with a natural attack? No. I feel that removing this would not downplay the race's effectiveness.
A warforged in eberron can do 1d4 damage with a slam attack and shifters from eberron also get natural attacks that deal 1d4 damage as well. This doesn't seem over powered. In almost ever situation, a normal weapon would be more effective, except in some very specific situations. I don't see a problem with letting the race keep its weak little attack in case there is ever a scenario where it comes up.
ciaran
03-08-08, 03:54 AM Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6.
AZNsupermarket
03-08-08, 06:28 PM Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6.

I'm fairly certain that you're allowed to attack with a weapon or use a natural attack, but not both.
ciaran
03-08-08, 08:13 PM My understanding is that the melee weapon could be used normally and the natural attack could be made at -5.
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-11-08, 10:45 AM Wouldn't you need to take multi-attack to use both a natural and "non-natural" weapon?

I'm balancing it against 4th ed based on what I've already seen, and what I want. I obviously don't know how it will end up, but I'm basing this on whats out there so far.

I can see how its perfect for a bard (if I had decided to keep favored classes, it'd be bard). I think I can safely switch it from Str to Con without a hiccup.

I didn't know there was a faun race already, but I haven't got access to that book. I honestly wanted a name change that wasn't far off from Satyr (since its a monster). But I'll change the name to avoid confusion.

I'd like to keep the double modifiers, really just because I'm fond of them, and I think they make race a more important choice (even though they've dropped racial levels, I'm considering adding them to the faun (now Satyr) anyways. Naturally I'll apply them to all the other races too.
ragoftag
03-13-08, 09:58 AM Nice start, IMRO, But I would like to see a nice Fluff decoration.
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-13-08, 10:06 AM As in flavor text, cultural descriptions, or more reason as to the abilities?
Commodore_Reddington
03-14-08, 11:35 AM Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6.

You can make a natural attack at a -5 as long as it isn't being used, such as a claw when weilding a greatsword. A headbutt is more powerful than a slam or a claw because it doesn't take hands.
ragoftag
03-15-08, 11:14 PM Johnathan_Vagabond As in flavor text, cultural descriptions, or more reason as to the abilities?Yes, straight MM text could be stolen, but I like your interpretation and work, and would like to see further down an interesting path. I have a fey offspring race similar to yours and you did enough better out of the gate to force me to drag them out and revise them. I used them as 'unreliable' allies to aid the players a time or three, to keep them from being over used and less novel. then a player suggested...EVIL! He ran them in his world as an ambush in the 'haunted' forest! Now, the rules allow them to become D20 3.5. Your entry has inspired a real update in my bestiary.

NAYAMASS, or the Forest Folk
One of several ‘Fey races’ that have made this world their home, the Nayamass are a nomadic people. Although they recognize the value of ‘things’, they are not as attached as other races, happily trading for or crafting replacements. Matriarchal bands move through the great forests in annual routes followed for decades.
As with other races descended from fey ancestors, the ‘Forest Folk’ live life to the fullest, reveling in the moment. A Nayamass never really thinks into the future.
The basic appearance of a Nayamass is that of a centaur made from a smallish deer and a gnome or halfling. Closer inspection reveals that they are entirely covered in a soft fur, spotted or striped in ‘the forest’s way’. Their faces are longer and narrower than those of gnomes’ and while their ‘humanoid’ frames are as slight as Halflings, they ripple with muscle. Their four feet end in small, jet black hooves and small, matching horns sprout from just above their temples. Torsos are narrow and thick-chested. Females wear long hair that grows all the way down the spine to a small horse like tail, a few shades darker than the body hair. Males often grow a near-mane out across the shoulders and even onto the upper arms. Lighter in color than the body hair, a whitish mane is considered a mark of leadership. Males get much shorter tails that are far less useful.
As they are descended from expatriate fey of old, Nayamuss are incapable of lawful behavior as a way of life. Most tend towards the goodly side of things, but a few twisted bands are as evil as they can be.
The relations with other forest dwelling races vary by alignment of the band, but both elves and gnomes welcome the 'local' traveling bands regularly.
Nayamass are druidical in their religious life. They speak languages of the forest and name newborns with Elfin nicknames, replaced often through life.

Racial Traits
* Medium/Small Monstrous Humanoid: Although the Nayamass adult weighs as much as a human, their ‘humanoid’ body is in the range of a Halfling’s. They must use Small weapons.
* Centauroid: 30ft move speed, increased carrying capacity, etc.
* -2 Int, +2 Wis, Nayamass lack experience outside their nomadic bands. They make up for this by attuning themselves to the wilds.
* Low Light Vision: double normal distances
* +2 Perform to all perform checks. All Perform skills are Cross Class. Although the Nayamass enjoy many forms of art, particularly dancing, singing and music, they lack the time and focus to truly excel at any single form. Evil Nayamuss suffer from they twisted souls and do not gain this bonus, but gain a +2 to Intimidate and treat it as a racial skill.
* +2 Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, only in rural or wild settings
* Nayamuss are not mechanically inclined, treat all 'tech' skills as Cross Class. This is why crossbows are foreign to them.
* +2 Survival, Special: a Nayamass must have ranks in Survival equal to at least half her character level. Their bands are nomadic and move with the seasons.
* All Nayamass are proficient in simple weapons, except crossbow, and the common bow. If using a weapon class system, this counts as one.
* Natural attack: Horn Butt 1d3 20x2 Piercing Damage. Not proficient (-4 on attack roll), -2 to AC. Although their small horns are sharp, they are more decorative than combat worthy and butting with them involve exposing the neck to attack. Their legs are too frail to use hoof attacks.
* Fey Blood: Although not truly Fey, the Forest Folk are vulnerable to many of the same weaknesses and attacks as true fey. The Nayamass get a +2 racial Bonus to saves and checks against spells, powers and effects of all Fey creatures.
* Auto languages: Elven, Sylvan
* Favored Classes: Druid, Ranger

Table: Starting Age
Adulthood Simple Average Complex

8 years +d4 +d6 +d8

Table: Aging Effects Code:
Middle Aged Old Venerable Maximum age

25 years 35 years 40 years +d10 years

Table: Random Height and Weight Code:
Base Height Height Mod Base Weight Weight Mod

4'9" 3d4” 140 lb. 5d8 lb.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-06-08, 05:26 PM	I'd really like to see the Satyr become a race of their own. Maybe I'm just enchanged with the faun, but I like the idea alot. I don't really want to make them all Fey, but I'd like them to retain some of those qualities. This is how I see the Satyr. Satyr Medium Huminoid 30ft move speed +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int -While Satyr are witty and nimble, they are slight and lack formal educations. Low Light Vision +2 Perform (selected at start) -Satyr enjoy many forms of art, while most are drawn to dancing or music, some take up other paths +2 Hide & Move Silently -Satyr are fond of pranks and tricks, most of which require subtlety +2 Survival & Jump -Satyr culture is not sedentary and is generally moves once per season and their physical frame makes them powerful jumpers Natural attack, Head Butt 1d4 20x2 Bludgeoning damage. -Satyr first learn defence by using their hornsA Faun with a Cha of 10 or more may Fascinate 1/day as a Bard of equal level. The Satyr gains another daily use of Fascinate per additional 5 levels (6th, 11th, 16th). Half-Fey: Though not fully fey, Satyr are subject to many of the same weaknesses and strengths as the fey. Any effect that works on or against a fey creature also functions against a Satyr. However Satyr get a +3 to save against such effects, and the spells or effects of Fey creatures. Because the Satyr is not fully fey, they cannot choose to fail these saves. Physical Description: The Satyr look like tradition Pan figures, with cloven hooves, deer's legs and lower torso, a humanoid upper torso, arms, and a head cropped with two goat like horns. Their features tend towards a cruel yet beautiful symmetry. Their fur matches their hair, and runs from a light tan to a deep black, usually with a reddish hue. Satyr eyes are of many or any color, generally changing either with the season or the time of day. Male Satyr favor their humanoid side with non-fur body hair on their upper torso and arms whereas female Satyr favor their doe like heritage with short and soft fur on their upper torso and most of their arms. Cultural Description: Satyr usually live within a general area or forest, but rarely establish permanent residences until they are too old to move without assistance. A given territory of forest can range between five to thirty miles, which the Satyr will defend from other Satyr with a mix of traditional games and trickery. Fights between Satyr are nearly non-existant, humiliation is both preferred and more painful than a battering, and most Satyr grow tired of conflict and resolve that nothing has been resolved. Children are taught to use their wits and wisdom from an early age. They game with other children at composing clever lyrics, songs, and pranks. A good prank is always appreciated, especially by adults who take its success and a sign their child is competent and learning, a bad prank is sorely frowned upon as a sign of laziness or incompetance. Far from over the top, all Satyr are taught "Sometimes the best prank is none." Satyr refer to their own tribes as "gruppos" which roughly means many people. Satyr tribes are not family or tradition oriented. They are bands of Satyr that seem to get along, like a group of friends. Each gruppo is led by a tripart council. The greatest Prankster, Performer, and "Puggo" (Run-jumper). Between the three of them decisions are made, though those decisions are both few and non-decisive. Thats my idea, I don't think its going to be overpowered (I'm balancing it against 4e at the moment). I do worry that it is either bland or weak, especially since I'm not actually aware of any anti-fey magic or powers (theres got to be some!?!?). How does this stack up balance and flavor wise?
jradd777 03-06-08, 06:16 PM	Sorry not to critique just yet, but your interest makes me wonder...are you aware of the faun that is already made? No, I don't mean the satyr either, if that's what you're thinking. There's a faun in Deities and Demigods (I think it's a 3.0 supplement, technically) it was errata'ed to be LA 0 for PC's. Maybe check it out, if you didn't already know about it... if you did, I'll take a closer look at this fella you made.
Rebel7284 03-07-08, 03:32 PM	The fact that i would LOVE to play this as a sorcerer makes me doubt if it's balanced. +cha, +dex, bo penalty to CON!?! Natural attacks generally warrant an LA too. This is just my gut instinct. edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race.
AZNsupermarket 03-08-08, 01:43 AM	The fact that i would LOVE to play this as a sorcerer makes me doubt if it's balanced. +cha, +dex, bo penalty to CON!?! Natural attacks generally warrant an LA too. This is just my gut instinct. edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race. Better yet, who would want to play any other race when playing a bard? +cha, +dex, no penalty to CON, and +2 perform checks??? my recommendation: change one of the penalties from either int or str to con and do something about the bonus to perform checks. (I'm balancing it against 4e at the moment). Wait... you're balancing it against for 4th edition?? :confused: HUH? Do you know what 4th edition races will even be like? So far we've only seen the elf. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071221&authentic=true
ciaran 03-08-08, 01:51 AM	edit: I would put this on par with whisper gnomes as a .5 LA race. Holy CRAP! Don't get me started!!
ciaran 03-08-08, 02:02 AM	On the subject of your race, LA +0 races are more palatable with one +2 ability and one -2 ability. Is there a single race in PH with a natural attack? No. I feel that removing this would not downplay the race's effectiveness. Is exchange, I would come up with some non-class-specific boost. Something that would make players want to play different classes with this. If there is a clearly obvious choice then you're off-base. Otherwise, I say it looks fine. I congradulate you for not pushing the limits. It seems mostly like a variant race catered to new role-playing experiences. Oh, and Fauns, according to C. S. Lewis, are more like Half-Deer. I understand your inclination to seek a close name. Perhaps a Faun injection would inspire some new life?
AZNsupermarket 03-08-08, 02:28 AM	On the subject of your race, LA +0 races are more palatable with one +2 ability and one -2 ability. That my simplify things a bit, although there are quite a few LA +0 races with two +2 abilities and two -2 abilities. Is there a single race in PH with a natural attack? No. I feel that removing this would not downplay the race's effectiveness. A warforged in eberron can do 1d4 damage with a slam attack and shifters from eberron also get natural attacks that deal 1d4 damage as well. This doesn't seem over powered. In almost ever situation, a normal weapon would be more effective, except in some very specific situations. I don't see a problem with letting the race keep its weak little attack in case there is ever a scenario where it comes up.
ciaran 03-08-08, 03:54 AM	Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6.
AZNsupermarket 03-08-08, 06:28 PM	Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6. I'm fairly certain that you're allowed to attack with a weapon or use a natural attack, but not both.
ciaran 03-08-08, 08:13 PM	My understanding is that the melee weapon could be used normally and the natural attack could be made at -5.
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-11-08, 10:45 AM	Wouldn't you need to take multi-attack to use both a natural and "non-natural" weapon? I'm balancing it against 4th ed based on what I've already seen, and what I want. I obviously don't know how it will end up, but I'm basing this on whats out there so far. I can see how its perfect for a bard (if I had decided to keep favored classes, it'd be bard). I think I can safely switch it from Str to Con without a hiccup. I didn't know there was a faun race already, but I haven't got access to that book. I honestly wanted a name change that wasn't far off from Satyr (since its a monster). But I'll change the name to avoid confusion. I'd like to keep the double modifiers, really just because I'm fond of them, and I think they make race a more important choice (even though they've dropped racial levels, I'm considering adding them to the faun (now Satyr) anyways. Naturally I'll apply them to all the other races too.
ragoftag 03-13-08, 09:58 AM	Nice start, IMRO, But I would like to see a nice Fluff decoration.
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-13-08, 10:06 AM	As in flavor text, cultural descriptions, or more reason as to the abilities?
Commodore_Reddington 03-14-08, 11:35 AM	Well I just say because it allows an actual "full attack" before BAB +6. You can make a natural attack at a -5 as long as it isn't being used, such as a claw when weilding a greatsword. A headbutt is more powerful than a slam or a claw because it doesn't take hands.
ragoftag 03-15-08, 11:14 PM	Johnathan_Vagabond As in flavor text, cultural descriptions, or more reason as to the abilities?Yes, straight MM text could be stolen, but I like your interpretation and work, and would like to see further down an interesting path. I have a fey offspring race similar to yours and you did enough better out of the gate to force me to drag them out and revise them. I used them as 'unreliable' allies to aid the players a time or three, to keep them from being over used and less novel. then a player suggested...EVIL! He ran them in his world as an ambush in the 'haunted' forest! Now, the rules allow them to become D20 3.5. Your entry has inspired a real update in my bestiary. NAYAMASS, or the Forest Folk One of several ‘Fey races’ that have made this world their home, the Nayamass are a nomadic people. Although they recognize the value of ‘things’, they are not as attached as other races, happily trading for or crafting replacements. Matriarchal bands move through the great forests in annual routes followed for decades. As with other races descended from fey ancestors, the ‘Forest Folk’ live life to the fullest, reveling in the moment. A Nayamass never really thinks into the future. The basic appearance of a Nayamass is that of a centaur made from a smallish deer and a gnome or halfling. Closer inspection reveals that they are entirely covered in a soft fur, spotted or striped in ‘the forest’s way’. Their faces are longer and narrower than those of gnomes’ and while their ‘humanoid’ frames are as slight as Halflings, they ripple with muscle. Their four feet end in small, jet black hooves and small, matching horns sprout from just above their temples. Torsos are narrow and thick-chested. Females wear long hair that grows all the way down the spine to a small horse like tail, a few shades darker than the body hair. Males often grow a near-mane out across the shoulders and even onto the upper arms. Lighter in color than the body hair, a whitish mane is considered a mark of leadership. Males get much shorter tails that are far less useful. As they are descended from expatriate fey of old, Nayamuss are incapable of lawful behavior as a way of life. Most tend towards the goodly side of things, but a few twisted bands are as evil as they can be. The relations with other forest dwelling races vary by alignment of the band, but both elves and gnomes welcome the 'local' traveling bands regularly. Nayamass are druidical in their religious life. They speak languages of the forest and name newborns with Elfin nicknames, replaced often through life. Racial Traits * Medium/Small Monstrous Humanoid: Although the Nayamass adult weighs as much as a human, their ‘humanoid’ body is in the range of a Halfling’s. They must use Small weapons. * Centauroid: 30ft move speed, increased carrying capacity, etc. * -2 Int, +2 Wis, Nayamass lack experience outside their nomadic bands. They make up for this by attuning themselves to the wilds. * Low Light Vision: double normal distances * +2 Perform to all perform checks. All Perform skills are Cross Class. Although the Nayamass enjoy many forms of art, particularly dancing, singing and music, they lack the time and focus to truly excel at any single form. Evil Nayamuss suffer from they twisted souls and do not gain this bonus, but gain a +2 to Intimidate and treat it as a racial skill. * +2 Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, only in rural or wild settings * Nayamuss are not mechanically inclined, treat all 'tech' skills as Cross Class. This is why crossbows are foreign to them. * +2 Survival, Special: a Nayamass must have ranks in Survival equal to at least half her character level. Their bands are nomadic and move with the seasons. * All Nayamass are proficient in simple weapons, except crossbow, and the common bow. If using a weapon class system, this counts as one. * Natural attack: Horn Butt 1d3 20x2 Piercing Damage. Not proficient (-4 on attack roll), -2 to AC. Although their small horns are sharp, they are more decorative than combat worthy and butting with them involve exposing the neck to attack. Their legs are too frail to use hoof attacks. * Fey Blood: Although not truly Fey, the Forest Folk are vulnerable to many of the same weaknesses and attacks as true fey. The Nayamass get a +2 racial Bonus to saves and checks against spells, powers and effects of all Fey creatures. * Auto languages: Elven, Sylvan * Favored Classes: Druid, Ranger Table: Starting Age Adulthood Simple Average Complex 8 years +d4 +d6 +d8 Table: Aging Effects Code: Middle Aged Old Venerable Maximum age 25 years 35 years 40 years +d10 years Table: Random Height and Weight Code: Base Height Height Mod Base Weight Weight Mod 4'9" 3d4” 140 lb. 5d8 lb.