Scent-What does it show? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Scent-What does it show? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NerdNumber1
05-19-07, 02:31 PM What does the scent of a creature tell you? I know you can recognize individuals, but what else can you find. Race, species, type, subtype, gender, age, what he ate yesterday, who the subject was with, lycanthrope status, etc. The rules for scent are pretty vague. It says that you can recognize familiar scents like someone recognizes familiar sights, but the depth that one sees (and processes this information) varies on the person. Any ideas?
Fireclave
05-19-07, 02:42 PM From the SRD

Scent

This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

...

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

...

That should pretty much cover it.
NerdNumber1
05-19-07, 03:16 PM From the SRD

That should pretty much cover it.

Yes, but lets say there are lycantropes in humanoid form are infront of you and you haven't smelled a lycanthrope. Could you realize that there was something different or maybe detect a little dash of their animal form on them. A simple sentence is not enough.
ChimericalWolf
05-19-07, 03:27 PM In this case, as with many not directly under the rules, it depends on the DM.

Is the character familiar with canine scents?

Does a werewolf in animal form smell like it's natural counterpart?

Does a werewolf in humanoid form smell like it's animal form? Like it's been in proximity to it's animal form?

These are all questions that only your DM can answer for your campaign. In my games, the were would smell like they have been near the animal form, to the point of rubbing up against it, and with repeated scenting of weres, I would probably allow them to distinguish between a wolf-friendly druid and a were.
NerdNumber1
05-19-07, 07:01 PM If you compare the scent ability to sight, then you should be able to sense when something is different. Like if you saw a apple and an orange, you could tell a difference. If you look at the adventure "Bad moon waning" (which is the adventure that brought up this question) you can infer that lycanthropes smell different and that they smell the same in all forms.
penchant
05-20-07, 04:03 AM In popular lore, animals can smell when things are off, especially the supernatural. While, not as keen as detect magic, I would say that scent could tell you that an individual was an outsider. Subtle things like whether a creature eats the flesh of humans or humanoids can be an indicator of evil without being detect evil as well. This is not something to be explicitly statted out like a magic power, but is an opportunity for the DM and player to exchange in creative RP. It gives the DM the chance to divvy out subtle clues.
NerdNumber1
05-20-07, 10:56 AM In popular lore, animals can smell when things are off, especially the supernatural. While, not as keen as detect magic, I would say that scent could tell you that an individual was an outsider. Subtle things like whether a creature eats the flesh of humans or humanoids can be an indicator of evil without being detect evil as well. This is not something to be explicitly statted out like a magic power, but is an opportunity for the DM and player to exchange in creative RP. It gives the DM the chance to divvy out subtle clues.

Wow, we have to be careful about where this is going. What began as an enemy detection ability is starting to look like a multitool of spell effects. By the way this is an adventure that has a lot to do with scent:

Bad Moon Waning (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030830a)
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-20-07, 11:05 AM Is there a feat to get scent? If so, wher can one find it?
AMGriffin
05-20-07, 11:40 AM The 3.0 DMG gave an optional rule of allowing half-orcs to take the scent ability as a Feat I believe.
Phalo
05-20-07, 12:35 PM I would be careful on ruling it as a detect whatever type of thing. But there are ways around some of this depending on how sensitive scent is you could detect blood on a person and if you had track could follow the trail like a bloodhound. But something tells me a werewolf would smell just like anyone else. How else would the curse go on more that a generation. Have a few things trained to track em and kill them during day.
NerdNumber1
05-20-07, 01:17 PM Lycanthropes get scent in all forms and one shifting ability in shifters gives scent (while shifting). I was wondering if a lycanthrope character in Bad Moon Waning could find other lycanthropes.
Riplox
05-20-07, 01:38 PM I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check such as Knowledge [Religion] for lycanthropes, undead, etc. or Knowledge [Arcana] for abberations, dragons, magical beasts, etc. or Knowledge [The Planes] for extraplanar creatures. If you don't have the proper Knowledge skill then you just roll an intelligence check. DCs for these would, of course, have to be created by the DM.
NerdNumber1
05-20-07, 01:46 PM I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check such as Knowledge [Religion] for lycanthropes, undead, etc. or Knowledge [Arcana] for abberations, dragons, magical beasts, etc. or Knowledge [The Planes] for extraplanar creatures. If you don't have the proper Knowledge skill then you just roll an intelligence check. DCs for these would, of course, have to be created by the DM.

That is a good idea, but I think that a survival check or some other skill might be better. Maybe a whole new skill might be needed. I just can't see a wizard using scent better than a ranger or other "hands on" classes. How about a compromise, you can use a knowledge check or a special scent check (which would be a class skill for all those with scent). This would work much like listen or spot skills (wisdom being the key ability) and it would have modifiers based on how familiar the scent is to you and conditions that help or hinder smell. (Sorry if I stopped making sense durring my rant.)
Moosh Nailo
05-20-07, 02:57 PM I'd go for either a straight-out wisdom check, or survival. Those are the only two that make sense, IMO. Wisdom over intelligence because all the other senses rely on wisdom. I don't think knowledge skills are appropriate either, because they represent known facts, theories, and what have you. This is, plain and simple, one of your senses.

NerdNumber1, i like your idea. The scent skill could come with the ability/feat, like lycanthropy comes with the control shape skill. I'd make it as easy to identify a creature (type, or the individual) with scent as it is with spot.

And anyone else think scent should give more than a +4 bonus to track?
Radijs
05-20-07, 04:17 PM Not entirely related but a PC in my campaign had some 3.0 PRC that gave him scent.
When they where watching a parade in the city he tried to get the scent of one of the people marching in the parade.

When they met him again later he wondered why the guy smelled diffrent.
penchant
05-20-07, 10:59 PM Scent should not give more than +4 to track but it should allow you to track in otherwise impossible situations. In otherwords, it can eliminate certain penaties. For instance, the impossible "track in air" listed in the Epic handbook could be a normal roll for scented track if the target passed recently. Running water, however has always defeated tracking by scent and so a fast moving stream can give the same penalty for scent tracking that track in air does for normal tracking.
Rinian2
05-24-07, 09:56 AM In a book I've read the main character has such an amazingly powerful sense of smell that he could tell that his friend had been captured by pirates from a few miles away by smelling the fear in his friend's sweat mixing with the scent of freshly tied ropes that had been soaked with seawater and dried a few times. And the scent of rum too, I think.

I don't quite think that Scent goes as far as that.

:)
duboisjf
05-30-07, 10:44 AM I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check

I agree with that much more than with Moosh Nailo :

I don't think knowledge skills are appropriate either, because they represent known facts, theories, and what have you. This is, plain and simple, one of your senses.

Why ? Let’s have an example :

You enter a house. You notice a smell in the air but you don’t know what it is. You go to the kitchen and ask the cook. He tells you that it is an oriental recipe made with … whatever, it’s an example. After that, you will be able to identify this recipe with your scent.

After all it’s not because you read a map with your eyes that it will be a spot check to understand it. Neither that a listen check will allow you to make the difference between songs of two different birds.

Scent ability to detect.
Knowledge check to identify.
Could be the same for other senses.

*** What is tricky : we forget that most of the time, identification is really easy or automatic because it relies on common knowledge (like the smell of smoke or food).
Ogg
05-30-07, 11:44 AM I like Riplox's take on it. I mean he could make his Wilderness Lore/Survival check & know something was up but then he'd be like a dog. Growling because something's wrong. Now with a Knowledge (Nature) roll he might be able to know he detects wolf scent.
NerdNumber1
05-30-07, 03:02 PM Using a knowledge check doesn't really fit with the flavor of the skill. I'd make a separate skill for scent (using wisdom), because I can't see a shifter scholar be any better at using scent than a more "hands on class." Anyway all the sense based skills (spot, listen, search) are wisdom-based and if you really want to discover the race, gender and age of someone who was passing through a path, you will have to give something in return (but those mentioned skills might give synergy bonuses). This would be a class skill for anyone with the scent ability and usable untrained.
duboisjf
05-30-07, 11:38 PM Using a knowledge check doesn't really fit with the flavor of the skill. I'd make a separate skill for scent (using wisdom), because I can't see a shifter scholar be any better at using scent than a more "hands on class." Anyway all the sense based skills (spot, listen, search) are wisdom-based and if you really want to discover the race, gender and age of someone who was passing through a path, you will have to give something in return (but those mentioned skills might give synergy bonuses). This would be a class skill for anyone with the scent ability and usable untrained.

With this interpretation for identification by scent, how would you deal with someone who gain his scent ability with a spell or with a magic item ?
Do he gets all he needs to identify with scent, even if it's the first time he gets this ability.

I prefer using a knowledge check approach. I also want to repeat that most of the time, identification will be really easy or automatic because it relies on common knowledge. I think that werewolf smell is common knowledge for a werewolf. It could also become common knowledge for someone with a scent ability that hunts or figths werewolf two or three times and is wise enough to tell his DM that he takes special care to those smells.

Also about the scholar shifter being any better at using scent than a more "hands on class" : I don't see a problem with that, descriptions in books can easily include information about the general smell. Using the right knowledge for the right smell is the key.

I finish on this question : Will your interpretation would explain well how someone could identify the smell of ... let' say ... magical or alchemical components or regional food.
Strogg
05-31-07, 07:14 PM Running water, however has always defeated tracking by scent and so a fast moving stream can give the same penalty for scent tracking that track in air does for normal tracking.

water does not really ruin a sent. scent is caused by skin cells constantly flaking off and those are actually hydrophilic (meaning water enhances them) as so a fast moving stream it would have to move pretty fast. it has been known for event the humble blood hound to track escaped prisoners through creeks and streams
BoDiddilly
05-31-07, 07:56 PM I think the sent ability is fairly simple. It alows you to detect faint odors in the air. Insidently you can detect the presents of creatures in your area using the rule set forth in the phb, and track with a +4 bonus. As for identifing the creatures well there is nothing in the RAW to say you can do that but I would say you can certain identify any creature you have come across befor as being the same creature. Just as you could with sight.

Using knowledge checks seems a little far fetched. You are saying I could identify two creatures: one creature as being a wolf and the other as a riding dog, with knowledge Nature checks, without having ever been close to one. No way, it is not supported by RAW, logic, or fact of any kind. I mean How can you be knowledgable of something's odor without incountering it. Would an accurate discription a given scents make you capable of sort cat shi*, dog sh#t, and dire boar s&it without sight? If you read a book on elephants would your eyebrow raise days later as your caravan crossed the hours old trailof a small heard?
Grizzled Gryphon
05-31-07, 08:08 PM While it hasn't quite been proven, it apparently is all but proven. Apparently, Dogs and other creatures with good senses of smell have been able to sense when someone is sick, but not phsyically so. From what I have heard (admittedly, not much as I didn't follow this at all), some institution is trying to train dogs to "sniff out" cancer and the like. They are actually starting to have some real progress, and have found and stopped the cancer in several individuals before the cancer was apparent enough for doctors to detect with regular tests. Catching it so early has been highly useful.

There also are cases where peoples dogs have started acting funny, and the owner later has a stroke or heart attack. Now some peoples doctors are telling them to pay attention to there dogs, and get checked out if the animal starts acting weird. Was it smell? Could be. If so, does that mean that smell can be used to notice sickness, or a disease? If so, can scent detect Lycanthropy? Lots of 'if, so's', there, but this could be a presedent for scent detecting a disease, at any rate.

I implemented this in a game once. Druid contracted a disease, and her wolf started acting strange with her. It started acting sad, and scared, so she had the cleric check her out. Sure enough, she had the disease, and they found a Paladin in time to fix her. Without the wolf acting strange, she wouldn't have known until it was too late.
duboisjf
05-31-07, 11:57 PM I mean How can you be knowledgable of something's odor without incountering it. Would an accurate discription a given scents make you capable of sort cat shi*, dog sh#t, and dire boar s&it without sight? If you read a book on elephants would your eyebrow raise days later as your caravan crossed the hours old trail of a small heard?

Well I guess using books in my previous example was a mistake. I have to agree with that. However I don't think that ranks in knowledge (nature) would likely come from reading books. Neither does ranks in dungeoneering.

About animal *hit : ...lol... I would allow a precise identification on a natural 20... but the general smell of the the stuff would be common knowledge. Anyone can know he just walked into something soft that smell bad :).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NerdNumber1 05-19-07, 02:31 PM	What does the scent of a creature tell you? I know you can recognize individuals, but what else can you find. Race, species, type, subtype, gender, age, what he ate yesterday, who the subject was with, lycanthrope status, etc. The rules for scent are pretty vague. It says that you can recognize familiar scents like someone recognizes familiar sights, but the depth that one sees (and processes this information) varies on the person. Any ideas?
Fireclave 05-19-07, 02:42 PM	From the SRD Scent This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. ... Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights. ... That should pretty much cover it.
NerdNumber1 05-19-07, 03:16 PM	From the SRD That should pretty much cover it. Yes, but lets say there are lycantropes in humanoid form are infront of you and you haven't smelled a lycanthrope. Could you realize that there was something different or maybe detect a little dash of their animal form on them. A simple sentence is not enough.
ChimericalWolf 05-19-07, 03:27 PM	In this case, as with many not directly under the rules, it depends on the DM. Is the character familiar with canine scents? Does a werewolf in animal form smell like it's natural counterpart? Does a werewolf in humanoid form smell like it's animal form? Like it's been in proximity to it's animal form? These are all questions that only your DM can answer for your campaign. In my games, the were would smell like they have been near the animal form, to the point of rubbing up against it, and with repeated scenting of weres, I would probably allow them to distinguish between a wolf-friendly druid and a were.
NerdNumber1 05-19-07, 07:01 PM	If you compare the scent ability to sight, then you should be able to sense when something is different. Like if you saw a apple and an orange, you could tell a difference. If you look at the adventure "Bad moon waning" (which is the adventure that brought up this question) you can infer that lycanthropes smell different and that they smell the same in all forms.
penchant 05-20-07, 04:03 AM	In popular lore, animals can smell when things are off, especially the supernatural. While, not as keen as detect magic, I would say that scent could tell you that an individual was an outsider. Subtle things like whether a creature eats the flesh of humans or humanoids can be an indicator of evil without being detect evil as well. This is not something to be explicitly statted out like a magic power, but is an opportunity for the DM and player to exchange in creative RP. It gives the DM the chance to divvy out subtle clues.
NerdNumber1 05-20-07, 10:56 AM	In popular lore, animals can smell when things are off, especially the supernatural. While, not as keen as detect magic, I would say that scent could tell you that an individual was an outsider. Subtle things like whether a creature eats the flesh of humans or humanoids can be an indicator of evil without being detect evil as well. This is not something to be explicitly statted out like a magic power, but is an opportunity for the DM and player to exchange in creative RP. It gives the DM the chance to divvy out subtle clues. Wow, we have to be careful about where this is going. What began as an enemy detection ability is starting to look like a multitool of spell effects. By the way this is an adventure that has a lot to do with scent: Bad Moon Waning (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030830a)
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-20-07, 11:05 AM	Is there a feat to get scent? If so, wher can one find it?
AMGriffin 05-20-07, 11:40 AM	The 3.0 DMG gave an optional rule of allowing half-orcs to take the scent ability as a Feat I believe.
Phalo 05-20-07, 12:35 PM	I would be careful on ruling it as a detect whatever type of thing. But there are ways around some of this depending on how sensitive scent is you could detect blood on a person and if you had track could follow the trail like a bloodhound. But something tells me a werewolf would smell just like anyone else. How else would the curse go on more that a generation. Have a few things trained to track em and kill them during day.
NerdNumber1 05-20-07, 01:17 PM	Lycanthropes get scent in all forms and one shifting ability in shifters gives scent (while shifting). I was wondering if a lycanthrope character in Bad Moon Waning could find other lycanthropes.
Riplox 05-20-07, 01:38 PM	I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check such as Knowledge [Religion] for lycanthropes, undead, etc. or Knowledge [Arcana] for abberations, dragons, magical beasts, etc. or Knowledge [The Planes] for extraplanar creatures. If you don't have the proper Knowledge skill then you just roll an intelligence check. DCs for these would, of course, have to be created by the DM.
NerdNumber1 05-20-07, 01:46 PM	I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check such as Knowledge [Religion] for lycanthropes, undead, etc. or Knowledge [Arcana] for abberations, dragons, magical beasts, etc. or Knowledge [The Planes] for extraplanar creatures. If you don't have the proper Knowledge skill then you just roll an intelligence check. DCs for these would, of course, have to be created by the DM. That is a good idea, but I think that a survival check or some other skill might be better. Maybe a whole new skill might be needed. I just can't see a wizard using scent better than a ranger or other "hands on" classes. How about a compromise, you can use a knowledge check or a special scent check (which would be a class skill for all those with scent). This would work much like listen or spot skills (wisdom being the key ability) and it would have modifiers based on how familiar the scent is to you and conditions that help or hinder smell. (Sorry if I stopped making sense durring my rant.)
Moosh Nailo 05-20-07, 02:57 PM	I'd go for either a straight-out wisdom check, or survival. Those are the only two that make sense, IMO. Wisdom over intelligence because all the other senses rely on wisdom. I don't think knowledge skills are appropriate either, because they represent known facts, theories, and what have you. This is, plain and simple, one of your senses. NerdNumber1, i like your idea. The scent skill could come with the ability/feat, like lycanthropy comes with the control shape skill. I'd make it as easy to identify a creature (type, or the individual) with scent as it is with spot. And anyone else think scent should give more than a +4 bonus to track?
Radijs 05-20-07, 04:17 PM	Not entirely related but a PC in my campaign had some 3.0 PRC that gave him scent. When they where watching a parade in the city he tried to get the scent of one of the people marching in the parade. When they met him again later he wondered why the guy smelled diffrent.
penchant 05-20-07, 10:59 PM	Scent should not give more than +4 to track but it should allow you to track in otherwise impossible situations. In otherwords, it can eliminate certain penaties. For instance, the impossible "track in air" listed in the Epic handbook could be a normal roll for scented track if the target passed recently. Running water, however has always defeated tracking by scent and so a fast moving stream can give the same penalty for scent tracking that track in air does for normal tracking.
Rinian2 05-24-07, 09:56 AM	In a book I've read the main character has such an amazingly powerful sense of smell that he could tell that his friend had been captured by pirates from a few miles away by smelling the fear in his friend's sweat mixing with the scent of freshly tied ropes that had been soaked with seawater and dried a few times. And the scent of rum too, I think. I don't quite think that Scent goes as far as that. :)
duboisjf 05-30-07, 10:44 AM	I would say that when you use your scent ability for something like this, you'd have to make a corresponding Knowledge check I agree with that much more than with Moosh Nailo : I don't think knowledge skills are appropriate either, because they represent known facts, theories, and what have you. This is, plain and simple, one of your senses. Why ? Let’s have an example : You enter a house. You notice a smell in the air but you don’t know what it is. You go to the kitchen and ask the cook. He tells you that it is an oriental recipe made with … whatever, it’s an example. After that, you will be able to identify this recipe with your scent. After all it’s not because you read a map with your eyes that it will be a spot check to understand it. Neither that a listen check will allow you to make the difference between songs of two different birds. Scent ability to detect. Knowledge check to identify. Could be the same for other senses. *** What is tricky : we forget that most of the time, identification is really easy or automatic because it relies on common knowledge (like the smell of smoke or food).
Ogg 05-30-07, 11:44 AM	I like Riplox's take on it. I mean he could make his Wilderness Lore/Survival check & know something was up but then he'd be like a dog. Growling because something's wrong. Now with a Knowledge (Nature) roll he might be able to know he detects wolf scent.
NerdNumber1 05-30-07, 03:02 PM	Using a knowledge check doesn't really fit with the flavor of the skill. I'd make a separate skill for scent (using wisdom), because I can't see a shifter scholar be any better at using scent than a more "hands on class." Anyway all the sense based skills (spot, listen, search) are wisdom-based and if you really want to discover the race, gender and age of someone who was passing through a path, you will have to give something in return (but those mentioned skills might give synergy bonuses). This would be a class skill for anyone with the scent ability and usable untrained.
duboisjf 05-30-07, 11:38 PM	Using a knowledge check doesn't really fit with the flavor of the skill. I'd make a separate skill for scent (using wisdom), because I can't see a shifter scholar be any better at using scent than a more "hands on class." Anyway all the sense based skills (spot, listen, search) are wisdom-based and if you really want to discover the race, gender and age of someone who was passing through a path, you will have to give something in return (but those mentioned skills might give synergy bonuses). This would be a class skill for anyone with the scent ability and usable untrained. With this interpretation for identification by scent, how would you deal with someone who gain his scent ability with a spell or with a magic item ? Do he gets all he needs to identify with scent, even if it's the first time he gets this ability. I prefer using a knowledge check approach. I also want to repeat that most of the time, identification will be really easy or automatic because it relies on common knowledge. I think that werewolf smell is common knowledge for a werewolf. It could also become common knowledge for someone with a scent ability that hunts or figths werewolf two or three times and is wise enough to tell his DM that he takes special care to those smells. Also about the scholar shifter being any better at using scent than a more "hands on class" : I don't see a problem with that, descriptions in books can easily include information about the general smell. Using the right knowledge for the right smell is the key. I finish on this question : Will your interpretation would explain well how someone could identify the smell of ... let' say ... magical or alchemical components or regional food.
Strogg 05-31-07, 07:14 PM	Running water, however has always defeated tracking by scent and so a fast moving stream can give the same penalty for scent tracking that track in air does for normal tracking. water does not really ruin a sent. scent is caused by skin cells constantly flaking off and those are actually hydrophilic (meaning water enhances them) as so a fast moving stream it would have to move pretty fast. it has been known for event the humble blood hound to track escaped prisoners through creeks and streams
BoDiddilly 05-31-07, 07:56 PM	I think the sent ability is fairly simple. It alows you to detect faint odors in the air. Insidently you can detect the presents of creatures in your area using the rule set forth in the phb, and track with a +4 bonus. As for identifing the creatures well there is nothing in the RAW to say you can do that but I would say you can certain identify any creature you have come across befor as being the same creature. Just as you could with sight. Using knowledge checks seems a little far fetched. You are saying I could identify two creatures: one creature as being a wolf and the other as a riding dog, with knowledge Nature checks, without having ever been close to one. No way, it is not supported by RAW, logic, or fact of any kind. I mean How can you be knowledgable of something's odor without incountering it. Would an accurate discription a given scents make you capable of sort cat shi*, dog sh#t, and dire boar s&it without sight? If you read a book on elephants would your eyebrow raise days later as your caravan crossed the hours old trailof a small heard?
Grizzled Gryphon 05-31-07, 08:08 PM	While it hasn't quite been proven, it apparently is all but proven. Apparently, Dogs and other creatures with good senses of smell have been able to sense when someone is sick, but not phsyically so. From what I have heard (admittedly, not much as I didn't follow this at all), some institution is trying to train dogs to "sniff out" cancer and the like. They are actually starting to have some real progress, and have found and stopped the cancer in several individuals before the cancer was apparent enough for doctors to detect with regular tests. Catching it so early has been highly useful. There also are cases where peoples dogs have started acting funny, and the owner later has a stroke or heart attack. Now some peoples doctors are telling them to pay attention to there dogs, and get checked out if the animal starts acting weird. Was it smell? Could be. If so, does that mean that smell can be used to notice sickness, or a disease? If so, can scent detect Lycanthropy? Lots of 'if, so's', there, but this could be a presedent for scent detecting a disease, at any rate. I implemented this in a game once. Druid contracted a disease, and her wolf started acting strange with her. It started acting sad, and scared, so she had the cleric check her out. Sure enough, she had the disease, and they found a Paladin in time to fix her. Without the wolf acting strange, she wouldn't have known until it was too late.
duboisjf 05-31-07, 11:57 PM	I mean How can you be knowledgable of something's odor without incountering it. Would an accurate discription a given scents make you capable of sort cat shi, dog sh#t, and dire boar s&it without sight? If you read a book on elephants would your eyebrow raise days later as your caravan crossed the hours old trail of a small heard? Well I guess using books in my previous example was a mistake. I have to agree with that. However I don't think that ranks in knowledge (nature) would likely come from reading books. Neither does ranks in dungeoneering. About animal hit : ...lol... I would allow a precise identification on a natural 20... but the general smell of the the stuff would be common knowledge. Anyone can know he just walked into something soft that smell bad :).