Shimmerlings! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shimmerlings! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Genetic
06-16-07, 09:26 PM So lately I've been trying to think up a strange character concept involving fey. I originally was looking at the pixie, but then I found the shimmerling (MM2). Unfortunately, they exist only in a swarm form. Basically, I estimated the level adjustment of a single shimmerling and made it into a race.

I'm mainly looking for feedback on the level adjustment (i.e. too high or too low) here, but if you have anything else to add feel free.

Shimmerling
• Str -10, Dex +12, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha +8
• Fey type: Shimmerlings are immune to effects that target only humanoids.
• Fine: As fine creatures, shimmerlings have a +8 size bonus to AC and attack rolls. They have a +16 bonus to hide checks and a -16 penalty to grapple checks. A shimmerling must use much smaller weapons than any normal race does, and their lifting and carrying limits are 1/8 those of normal, medium-sized creatures.
• Shimmerling base land speed is 10 feet. They also have a fly speed of 50 feet with perfect maneuverability.
• Low-light vision: A shimmerling can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Glow (Su): A shimmerling can emit a faint color. The color is of the rainbow and is determined at the time of character creation. When glowing, the shimmerling can shed a dim light out to a radius of 10 feet. It imposes a -4 penalty on hide checks. Activating this ability is a standard action.
• A shimmerling always has a strength score of at least 1.
• Favored Class: Bard
• Level Adjustment: +4 (+3 if -4 using -4 Con penalty)
Rerecros
06-16-07, 09:29 PM no ability penalties greater than -4 for PC races
Genetic
06-16-07, 09:30 PM no ability penalties greater than -4 for PC races

Is that stated in the core rules anywhere? Would like to see it.

Edit: Plus, monsters have strange penalties and bonuses to their scores. There are other monsters (such as the Jermlaine) that also have penalties greater than -4.
Rerecros
06-16-07, 09:45 PM It's no where in the core, it just isn't done for PC races.
a shimmerling character who rolled three ones just puts it in str because,
3 - 10 = 1 in ability scores.
Yabbathewhat doesn't even count a -6 ability as negative FP.
allenchan
06-16-07, 09:51 PM Ive seen plenty of creatures with listed LAs that have greater then -4 to specific stats. But Rerecros does have a point. using point-buy, starting at 8, a -30 is no different then a -8 to a stat.

No amount of strength penalty can make up for a free +14 to AC
Genetic
06-16-07, 09:53 PM Well the thing about races/monsters with level adjustments is that they're not actually supposed to be played as "standard races." That's why they have level adjustments. :)

Also the stats are just pulled out of the monster entry in MM2. The issue of the ability penalties aside, do you think the LA is too high or too low? :P
Genetic
06-16-07, 09:56 PM Ive seen plenty of creatures with listed LAs that have greater then -4 to specific stats. But Rerecros does have a point. using point-buy, starting at 8, a -30 is no different then a -8 to a stat.

No amount of strength penalty can make up for a free +14 to AC

This is more what I was looking for and was also considering myself while estimating the level adjustment. They do have a +14 to AC (and hit if you're using weapon finesse). However, they're not going to be doing much damage with regular weaponry.

The worst abuse of the shimmerling I could see is a caster who focuses on ray attacks. It'd be disgusting. I'm tempted to make the LA +4 or so. There are other penalties (besides) a character with that size has though. I think that offsets anything much higher than +4.
Rerecros
06-16-07, 09:57 PM I'd say to low, I'd reckon their worth +6 LA.
+12 dex and they're fine, that is too much, they have massive AC and Attack
And then theres perfect maneuverability.
They'd make awesome rogues, since sneak attacks do the same damage regardless of size.
Genetic
06-16-07, 10:04 PM I'd say to low, I'd reckon their worth +6 LA.
+12 dex and they're fine, that is too much, they have massive AC and Attack
And then theres perfect maneuverability.
They'd make awesome rogues, since sneak attacks do the same damage regardless of size.

The thought of rogues hadn't crossed my mind, but keep in mind fine creatures in melee cannot flank an enemy and also provoke an attack of opportunity to move into a target's spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLi ttleCreaturesInCombat). However they still can do sneak attack through other ways, I think that may fall under the increase from +3 to +4 LA, maybe to a +5. +6 may be a bit much though.
key
08-26-07, 12:21 AM I was also looking at both the pixie and the shimmerling.

The sum of the pixie's ability modifiers is +20 vs. +10 for the shimmerling.

Pixies get a +2 to Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Shimmerlings nothing.

Pixies have Greater Invisibility, Special Arrows, and a bunch of Spell-Like Abilities. Shimmerlings nothing, except for Glow.

Pixies have a +1 natural armor bonus, shimmerlings none.

Pixies have damage reduction and spell resistance; shimmerlings do not.

Just looking at the difference in ability score modifiers (+20 vs. +10), I would cut in half the +4 LA to +2. Given that shimmerlings don't have all the other junk pixies do, I think an LA of +1 is pretty fair, though I could see no level adjustment too.
malykoth
08-26-07, 01:01 AM They're so tiny, I'd say they all have a racial maximum in Strength of 1. They'd effectively be unable to carry any equipment (though perhaps magic items might size to fit). The DM might have to tweek the character creation part to avoid an automatic dump stat, of course.
zook1shoe666
08-27-07, 12:02 AM They'd effectively be unable to carry any equipment

being fine means your loads are sooooo small..... so thats more or less what defines what they can carry
malykoth
08-27-07, 12:12 AM being fine means your loads are sooooo small..... so thats more or less what defines what they can carry
Yeah, I meant like treasure and stuff like that. Fine-sized equipment, of course, would be just fine...realistically, would one even feel a Fine-sized dagger?
Part-Human2
08-27-07, 01:16 AM They'd make good Warlocks, Sorcerers, Scouts (skirmish anyone?), Rogues, and Druids. Vow of Poverty would work nicely too. Artificer might be hard with a low INT but doable. You could ride your Humonculi, Golems, Constructs or whatever. Ooo, a Dread Necromancer Shimmerling!

They're in the MM3, not MM2.
ArochanoX
08-27-07, 07:25 AM Without checking the actual shimmerling swarm entry, I'd suggest following.

Shimmerling
• Str -8, Dex +10, Con -4, Int -2, Wis +4, Cha +8
• Fey type: Shimmerlings are immune to effects that target only humanoids.
• Fine: As fine creatures, shimmerlings have a +8 size bonus to AC and attack rolls. They have a +16 bonus to hide checks and a -16 penalty to grapple checks. A shimmerling must use much smaller weapons than any normal race does, and their lifting and carrying limits are 1/8 those of normal, medium-sized creatures.
• Shimmerling base land speed is 10 feet. They also have a fly speed of 50 feet with perfect maneuverability.
• Low-light vision: A shimmerling can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Glow (Su): A shimmerling can emit a faint color. The color is of the rainbow and is determined at the time of character creation. When glowing, the shimmerling can shed a dim light out to a radius of 10 feet. It imposes a -4 penalty on hide checks. Activating this ability is a standard action.
• Favored Class: Bard
• Level Adjustment: +3

I slightly modified the ability bonuses and penalties. I lessened the strenght penalty. It doesn't matter what score you'll put in strenght, it'll most likely be one of the Shimmerlings worst abilites. Constitution penalty worsens every class - it affects everything. Having a good AC is nicely countered by LA (less HP) and con penalty (less HP). It'll make shimmerlings fragile as hell, but the flight speed, incredible hide modifier (size + dex) allow the shimmerling to survive. The most reasonable choise would be to use rogue sneak attack within 10-30ft range for sniping. Sneak attack + immediate hide check after the shot and you'll stay invisible almost always. Another one is warlock / rogue for eldrich blast goodie.

Constitution penalty also allows to lower shimmerling's level adjustment a bit. Still the perfect flight speed and fine size warrant some level adjustment.
Genetic
11-07-07, 12:08 AM Yay late replies! I didn't even notice these new posts from the end of August.

ArochanoX: What I did was simply take the stat modifiers out of Monster Manual 3 and then convert it to a single creature. The original LA was about +2 and went up to +3 and then to +5. The only thing shimmerlings really have going for them is their ridiculously high AC. They'd make good precision damage dealers but not much else. I'm going to drop their LA to +4 and make a +3 LA variant for +3 LA.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Genetic 06-16-07, 09:26 PM	So lately I've been trying to think up a strange character concept involving fey. I originally was looking at the pixie, but then I found the shimmerling (MM2). Unfortunately, they exist only in a swarm form. Basically, I estimated the level adjustment of a single shimmerling and made it into a race. I'm mainly looking for feedback on the level adjustment (i.e. too high or too low) here, but if you have anything else to add feel free. Shimmerling • Str -10, Dex +12, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha +8 • Fey type: Shimmerlings are immune to effects that target only humanoids. • Fine: As fine creatures, shimmerlings have a +8 size bonus to AC and attack rolls. They have a +16 bonus to hide checks and a -16 penalty to grapple checks. A shimmerling must use much smaller weapons than any normal race does, and their lifting and carrying limits are 1/8 those of normal, medium-sized creatures. • Shimmerling base land speed is 10 feet. They also have a fly speed of 50 feet with perfect maneuverability. • Low-light vision: A shimmerling can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. • Glow (Su): A shimmerling can emit a faint color. The color is of the rainbow and is determined at the time of character creation. When glowing, the shimmerling can shed a dim light out to a radius of 10 feet. It imposes a -4 penalty on hide checks. Activating this ability is a standard action. • A shimmerling always has a strength score of at least 1. • Favored Class: Bard • Level Adjustment: +4 (+3 if -4 using -4 Con penalty)
Rerecros 06-16-07, 09:29 PM	no ability penalties greater than -4 for PC races
Genetic 06-16-07, 09:30 PM	no ability penalties greater than -4 for PC races Is that stated in the core rules anywhere? Would like to see it. Edit: Plus, monsters have strange penalties and bonuses to their scores. There are other monsters (such as the Jermlaine) that also have penalties greater than -4.
Rerecros 06-16-07, 09:45 PM	It's no where in the core, it just isn't done for PC races. a shimmerling character who rolled three ones just puts it in str because, 3 - 10 = 1 in ability scores. Yabbathewhat doesn't even count a -6 ability as negative FP.
allenchan 06-16-07, 09:51 PM	Ive seen plenty of creatures with listed LAs that have greater then -4 to specific stats. But Rerecros does have a point. using point-buy, starting at 8, a -30 is no different then a -8 to a stat. No amount of strength penalty can make up for a free +14 to AC
Genetic 06-16-07, 09:53 PM	Well the thing about races/monsters with level adjustments is that they're not actually supposed to be played as "standard races." That's why they have level adjustments. :) Also the stats are just pulled out of the monster entry in MM2. The issue of the ability penalties aside, do you think the LA is too high or too low? :P
Genetic 06-16-07, 09:56 PM	Ive seen plenty of creatures with listed LAs that have greater then -4 to specific stats. But Rerecros does have a point. using point-buy, starting at 8, a -30 is no different then a -8 to a stat. No amount of strength penalty can make up for a free +14 to AC This is more what I was looking for and was also considering myself while estimating the level adjustment. They do have a +14 to AC (and hit if you're using weapon finesse). However, they're not going to be doing much damage with regular weaponry. The worst abuse of the shimmerling I could see is a caster who focuses on ray attacks. It'd be disgusting. I'm tempted to make the LA +4 or so. There are other penalties (besides) a character with that size has though. I think that offsets anything much higher than +4.
Rerecros 06-16-07, 09:57 PM	I'd say to low, I'd reckon their worth +6 LA. +12 dex and they're fine, that is too much, they have massive AC and Attack And then theres perfect maneuverability. They'd make awesome rogues, since sneak attacks do the same damage regardless of size.
Genetic 06-16-07, 10:04 PM	I'd say to low, I'd reckon their worth +6 LA. +12 dex and they're fine, that is too much, they have massive AC and Attack And then theres perfect maneuverability. They'd make awesome rogues, since sneak attacks do the same damage regardless of size. The thought of rogues hadn't crossed my mind, but keep in mind fine creatures in melee cannot flank an enemy and also provoke an attack of opportunity to move into a target's spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLi ttleCreaturesInCombat). However they still can do sneak attack through other ways, I think that may fall under the increase from +3 to +4 LA, maybe to a +5. +6 may be a bit much though.
key 08-26-07, 12:21 AM	I was also looking at both the pixie and the shimmerling. The sum of the pixie's ability modifiers is +20 vs. +10 for the shimmerling. Pixies get a +2 to Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Shimmerlings nothing. Pixies have Greater Invisibility, Special Arrows, and a bunch of Spell-Like Abilities. Shimmerlings nothing, except for Glow. Pixies have a +1 natural armor bonus, shimmerlings none. Pixies have damage reduction and spell resistance; shimmerlings do not. Just looking at the difference in ability score modifiers (+20 vs. +10), I would cut in half the +4 LA to +2. Given that shimmerlings don't have all the other junk pixies do, I think an LA of +1 is pretty fair, though I could see no level adjustment too.
malykoth 08-26-07, 01:01 AM	They're so tiny, I'd say they all have a racial maximum in Strength of 1. They'd effectively be unable to carry any equipment (though perhaps magic items might size to fit). The DM might have to tweek the character creation part to avoid an automatic dump stat, of course.
zook1shoe666 08-27-07, 12:02 AM	They'd effectively be unable to carry any equipment being fine means your loads are sooooo small..... so thats more or less what defines what they can carry
malykoth 08-27-07, 12:12 AM	being fine means your loads are sooooo small..... so thats more or less what defines what they can carry Yeah, I meant like treasure and stuff like that. Fine-sized equipment, of course, would be just fine...realistically, would one even feel a Fine-sized dagger?
Part-Human2 08-27-07, 01:16 AM	They'd make good Warlocks, Sorcerers, Scouts (skirmish anyone?), Rogues, and Druids. Vow of Poverty would work nicely too. Artificer might be hard with a low INT but doable. You could ride your Humonculi, Golems, Constructs or whatever. Ooo, a Dread Necromancer Shimmerling! They're in the MM3, not MM2.
ArochanoX 08-27-07, 07:25 AM	Without checking the actual shimmerling swarm entry, I'd suggest following. Shimmerling • Str -8, Dex +10, Con -4, Int -2, Wis +4, Cha +8 • Fey type: Shimmerlings are immune to effects that target only humanoids. • Fine: As fine creatures, shimmerlings have a +8 size bonus to AC and attack rolls. They have a +16 bonus to hide checks and a -16 penalty to grapple checks. A shimmerling must use much smaller weapons than any normal race does, and their lifting and carrying limits are 1/8 those of normal, medium-sized creatures. • Shimmerling base land speed is 10 feet. They also have a fly speed of 50 feet with perfect maneuverability. • Low-light vision: A shimmerling can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. • Glow (Su): A shimmerling can emit a faint color. The color is of the rainbow and is determined at the time of character creation. When glowing, the shimmerling can shed a dim light out to a radius of 10 feet. It imposes a -4 penalty on hide checks. Activating this ability is a standard action. • Favored Class: Bard • Level Adjustment: +3 I slightly modified the ability bonuses and penalties. I lessened the strenght penalty. It doesn't matter what score you'll put in strenght, it'll most likely be one of the Shimmerlings worst abilites. Constitution penalty worsens every class - it affects everything. Having a good AC is nicely countered by LA (less HP) and con penalty (less HP). It'll make shimmerlings fragile as hell, but the flight speed, incredible hide modifier (size + dex) allow the shimmerling to survive. The most reasonable choise would be to use rogue sneak attack within 10-30ft range for sniping. Sneak attack + immediate hide check after the shot and you'll stay invisible almost always. Another one is warlock / rogue for eldrich blast goodie. Constitution penalty also allows to lower shimmerling's level adjustment a bit. Still the perfect flight speed and fine size warrant some level adjustment.
Genetic 11-07-07, 12:08 AM	Yay late replies! I didn't even notice these new posts from the end of August. ArochanoX: What I did was simply take the stat modifiers out of Monster Manual 3 and then convert it to a single creature. The original LA was about +2 and went up to +3 and then to +5. The only thing shimmerlings really have going for them is their ridiculously high AC. They'd make good precision damage dealers but not much else. I'm going to drop their LA to +4 and make a +3 LA variant for +3 LA.