Shinneko (Catfolk Variant) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shinneko (Catfolk Variant) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
YamiShinobi
12-18-07, 07:59 PM Type Humanoid (Feline)
Traits
+2 dex +2 cha +2 int +2wis -2 con -2 str replaces catfolk modifiers
+2 racial bonus on hide, move silently, listen and spot checks
medium size
base land speed of 40 feet
low light vision

weapon proficiency, a shiineko is proficient with the bastard sword, short sword, kukri, and spiked chain, the weapons of thier clan based assassin culture

favored class by rogue, ninja, a shinneko favors stealth, usually applying the daisho (specifically the bastard sword) to thier fighting style.

level adjustment +1

Shinneko Feats

Birth of the Aku Oni
Prerequisite: Shinneko Race
Benefit: add 2 to dexterity, intellegence, charisma and wisdom as well as adding dexterity modifier to attack and damage rolls instead of strength, also gain shifting mind, Shifting Mind allows an Aku Oni born Shinneko to add +6 to dexterity and wisdom if reduced to 1/2 max hp or lower, they also gain retractable claws which they are proficient with, dealing 1d6 damage with a 19-20x2 critical theeat range, however thier level adjustment rises by 2.
this feat may only be taken at first level (the first hit die)

fluff

shinneko are a catfolk subrace who live in clans, most shinneko clans work as assassins for those who hire the services of thier clans. one of the greatest shinneko was a gestalted epic ninja/swordsage with mastery of the hand of shadows by the name of yami shinobi (a character in my short stories i typed) also reffered to as Aku Oni by the public, (due to his assassin nature) he slew many a foe with simply his daisho, law and chaos didn't matter to him, some say he now works at random inns and hotels. shinneko often have cover identities to hide thier ninja nature,
his was merely an innkeeper. most shinneko that are abroad from thier clan, (as exile, last survivor, adventuruer etc) usually take a cover identity amongst the public.
ericSHINRA
12-18-07, 08:06 PM My god.

I hope to high heaven you're not serious. I'm sure you meant well, but I'd read upon on the rules for creating new races/monsters... Even without the stolen Rogue abilities the LA would be somewhere around LA+3.
YamiShinobi
12-18-07, 08:39 PM My god.

I hope to high heaven you're not serious. I'm sure you meant well, but I'd read upon on the rules for creating new races/monsters... Even without the stolen Rogue abilities the LA would be somewhere around LA+3.

are you talking too much or too little ecl? (LA +Racial HD)
ericSHINRA
12-18-07, 08:49 PM are you talking too much or too little ecl? (LA +Racial HD)

I don't understand why they have racial hit-dice for one thing as well as why they have so many powerful abilities.
Watsyurname529
12-18-07, 08:58 PM I would make the LA at least +8 since you are basically getting a level 6 Rogue plus all those extra powers. Insane ability scores, 4 feats, Exotic and a Martial weapon proficiency, Int as a Deflection bonus to AC & Saves which is at least a +2 bonus, and at least 36 skill points.

I make a wizard with 18 Int plus the +4 mod making it 22/+6 and a 16 in Dex making it 22/+6 getting a 22 AC without even trying. Not to mention the spells I'll be getting and I'll be able to sneak around and sneak attack.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm insulting you, which I'm not. Just saying that a LA of +1 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low for how much you get; and counting the Rogue Levels making it a ECL of 8 or 9.
Muglock
12-18-07, 09:46 PM I'm sorry... I'm a Dungeon Master.
Pleased to meet you.

What campaign are your cat people apart of, and are they Divine Rank at level 1?

...
This entire idea should just be scrapped. What you've done is give us a level 8 Catfolk Rogue.
AtsuiShoto
12-18-07, 09:56 PM I think an ECL of 9 is about right. I would go for +4 LA and 5 RHD. The racial hitdice work out to be like rogue levels, except the class skill list is pathetic and the actual hitdice are d8 instead of d6. That leaves a very helpful bonus feat, a land speed bonus, great racial skill bonuses to cover up the crappy racial hitdie skills, and an incredible set of ability bonuses. One which synergizes beautifully with a save bonus ability that rivals paladins, and an AC bonus that will stack with almost anything.

Wait, never mind the remark about crappy skills, I noticed the line that modifies the "class skills". If that's meant to only apply to the racial hitdice, it covers up yet another potential weakness. If it's meant to apply forever, then it's an unprecedented ability, though given how perfectly suited for rogue and rogue alone this race is, I would say it's a redundant ability.

This catfolk is designed to be the PERFECT rogue, in almost every possible way. So as to avoid it being by far the very best rogue ever, I think at least a +4 LA and 5 RHD are in order.
Bahumut
12-18-07, 10:17 PM sorry Yami, it must seem like i'm always picking on you =P but for comparison's sake, compare your race to the Armand (5RHD + 3LA = ECL8) or the Harssaf (6RHD + 4LA = ECL10) from the Monster Manual 3. i would give a more in depth breakdown, but don't wanna break the CoC.
ceiling90
12-19-07, 06:19 AM Maybe when it was first posted, it had crazy powers? From what I see, it's no better than the standard Cat-Folk race found in Races of the Wild. Instead of making Daisho a simple weapon, you should probably just give them either Exotic Weapons Proficiency with it... Or since they seem to be a lot more Ninja based, you're better off making that EWP spiked chain or kusari-gama. If you still want them to be proficient with the Daisho, you should make it a improved martial familiarity, as really ninja don't use Katana, or Wakazashi, but most likely either Kunai or daggers (they were sort of poor). I don't see why a lot of you said it needed to be ECL 8 or higher? Personally, with what I see now it's barely past 1.5 LA, and with all the other stuff like the EWP's maybe a +2.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
YamiShinobi 12-18-07, 07:59 PM	Type Humanoid (Feline) Traits +2 dex +2 cha +2 int +2wis -2 con -2 str replaces catfolk modifiers +2 racial bonus on hide, move silently, listen and spot checks medium size base land speed of 40 feet low light vision weapon proficiency, a shiineko is proficient with the bastard sword, short sword, kukri, and spiked chain, the weapons of thier clan based assassin culture favored class by rogue, ninja, a shinneko favors stealth, usually applying the daisho (specifically the bastard sword) to thier fighting style. level adjustment +1 Shinneko Feats Birth of the Aku Oni Prerequisite: Shinneko Race Benefit: add 2 to dexterity, intellegence, charisma and wisdom as well as adding dexterity modifier to attack and damage rolls instead of strength, also gain shifting mind, Shifting Mind allows an Aku Oni born Shinneko to add +6 to dexterity and wisdom if reduced to 1/2 max hp or lower, they also gain retractable claws which they are proficient with, dealing 1d6 damage with a 19-20x2 critical theeat range, however thier level adjustment rises by 2. this feat may only be taken at first level (the first hit die) fluff shinneko are a catfolk subrace who live in clans, most shinneko clans work as assassins for those who hire the services of thier clans. one of the greatest shinneko was a gestalted epic ninja/swordsage with mastery of the hand of shadows by the name of yami shinobi (a character in my short stories i typed) also reffered to as Aku Oni by the public, (due to his assassin nature) he slew many a foe with simply his daisho, law and chaos didn't matter to him, some say he now works at random inns and hotels. shinneko often have cover identities to hide thier ninja nature, his was merely an innkeeper. most shinneko that are abroad from thier clan, (as exile, last survivor, adventuruer etc) usually take a cover identity amongst the public.
ericSHINRA 12-18-07, 08:06 PM	My god. I hope to high heaven you're not serious. I'm sure you meant well, but I'd read upon on the rules for creating new races/monsters... Even without the stolen Rogue abilities the LA would be somewhere around LA+3.
YamiShinobi 12-18-07, 08:39 PM	My god. I hope to high heaven you're not serious. I'm sure you meant well, but I'd read upon on the rules for creating new races/monsters... Even without the stolen Rogue abilities the LA would be somewhere around LA+3. are you talking too much or too little ecl? (LA +Racial HD)
ericSHINRA 12-18-07, 08:49 PM	are you talking too much or too little ecl? (LA +Racial HD) I don't understand why they have racial hit-dice for one thing as well as why they have so many powerful abilities.
Watsyurname529 12-18-07, 08:58 PM	I would make the LA at least +8 since you are basically getting a level 6 Rogue plus all those extra powers. Insane ability scores, 4 feats, Exotic and a Martial weapon proficiency, Int as a Deflection bonus to AC & Saves which is at least a +2 bonus, and at least 36 skill points. I make a wizard with 18 Int plus the +4 mod making it 22/+6 and a 16 in Dex making it 22/+6 getting a 22 AC without even trying. Not to mention the spells I'll be getting and I'll be able to sneak around and sneak attack. Sorry if it sounds like I'm insulting you, which I'm not. Just saying that a LA of +1 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low for how much you get; and counting the Rogue Levels making it a ECL of 8 or 9.
Muglock 12-18-07, 09:46 PM	I'm sorry... I'm a Dungeon Master. Pleased to meet you. What campaign are your cat people apart of, and are they Divine Rank at level 1? ... This entire idea should just be scrapped. What you've done is give us a level 8 Catfolk Rogue.
AtsuiShoto 12-18-07, 09:56 PM	I think an ECL of 9 is about right. I would go for +4 LA and 5 RHD. The racial hitdice work out to be like rogue levels, except the class skill list is pathetic and the actual hitdice are d8 instead of d6. That leaves a very helpful bonus feat, a land speed bonus, great racial skill bonuses to cover up the crappy racial hitdie skills, and an incredible set of ability bonuses. One which synergizes beautifully with a save bonus ability that rivals paladins, and an AC bonus that will stack with almost anything. Wait, never mind the remark about crappy skills, I noticed the line that modifies the "class skills". If that's meant to only apply to the racial hitdice, it covers up yet another potential weakness. If it's meant to apply forever, then it's an unprecedented ability, though given how perfectly suited for rogue and rogue alone this race is, I would say it's a redundant ability. This catfolk is designed to be the PERFECT rogue, in almost every possible way. So as to avoid it being by far the very best rogue ever, I think at least a +4 LA and 5 RHD are in order.
Bahumut 12-18-07, 10:17 PM	sorry Yami, it must seem like i'm always picking on you =P but for comparison's sake, compare your race to the Armand (5RHD + 3LA = ECL8) or the Harssaf (6RHD + 4LA = ECL10) from the Monster Manual 3. i would give a more in depth breakdown, but don't wanna break the CoC.
ceiling90 12-19-07, 06:19 AM	Maybe when it was first posted, it had crazy powers? From what I see, it's no better than the standard Cat-Folk race found in Races of the Wild. Instead of making Daisho a simple weapon, you should probably just give them either Exotic Weapons Proficiency with it... Or since they seem to be a lot more Ninja based, you're better off making that EWP spiked chain or kusari-gama. If you still want them to be proficient with the Daisho, you should make it a improved martial familiarity, as really ninja don't use Katana, or Wakazashi, but most likely either Kunai or daggers (they were sort of poor). I don't see why a lot of you said it needed to be ECL 8 or higher? Personally, with what I see now it's barely past 1.5 LA, and with all the other stuff like the EWP's maybe a +2.