Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reddrakk 03-20-08, 11:20 AM	I suppose the root of this question is how many playable races do you need before there are just too many? My game emphasizes reptilians, orcs, goblinoids, and humans as well as a few I've made up myself. I feel that the elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, etc. are just there because they are always in D&D games. However, if i remove them from the game, I'll be taking away the 'ole standbys that people know and love. So I suppose I'm asking for people's opinions. Should I keep the races people are familiar with or not?
key 03-20-08, 11:33 AM	I'm for giving players the max amount of races to choose from for their characters. The NPCs, bad guys, townfolk, etc. are the DM's call.
Reddrakk 03-20-08, 12:42 PM	They wouldn't occupy much of a role in the game, which is my concern. Most the PHB races would have to be stuck either "in distant lands" or else so rare in this day and age that they are almost extinct.
Kursk 03-20-08, 01:12 PM	It's up to you and your players. I personally don't like playing a game where when I enter a town it's like being at the zoo. That's just me & my players though...
Naderion 03-20-08, 01:24 PM	All the humanoid races in my setting are playable, but there's only a limited number of humanoid races existing in this setting. Also, as the races live seperated from another, it's also depending on the campaign what races the players are "allowed to chose from". In an elven campaign in elven lands, an dwarvish character would just disrupt things. An elf in a human campaign in human country might work, as humans are generally most open to foreigners. You can even play orcs and orc/trolls, but obviously, it works best if you do an orcish campaign. As kursk said, it doesn't always work to have a gaziolion of different races. Middle-earth has only six, Faerūn has about 80. Eberron is said to have everything from every D&D book, so it's most likely 200 and more. And when we look at the real world, there is only one humanoid race with two supraces, one of them extinct.
Salla 03-20-08, 01:27 PM	I always throw things wide open and neither I, nor my players, have ever had a problem with it.
Reddrakk 03-20-08, 01:42 PM	I think i'll present four races as the main ones, and if someone insists on being an elf or dwarf i'll let them, but they'll probably be the only one they ever meet. The world is dominated by humans, fey-touched, lizardfolk, and hobgoblins. I just don't want races that seem "tacked on" to the world, nor did i want a world where the normal races were there, but given a different history (ala Eberron).
Orenmir 03-20-08, 01:53 PM	Middle-earth has only six. What? I guess that depends on how you define "race." I can think of 11 without even opening the books, not including sub-races. And I only read them once. As a DM, I hate to restrict my players from any official source. That's just me. Restricting any material from core seems counterintuitive to me.
Kursk 03-20-08, 02:12 PM	What? I guess that depends on how you define "race." I can think of 11 without even opening the books, not including sub-races. And I only read them once. As a DM, I hate to restrict my players from any official source. That's just me. Restricting any material from core seems counterintuitive to me. I count 7 in the PHB. I never restrict those....
Orenmir 03-20-08, 02:18 PM	I count 7 in the PHB. I never restrict those.... True, I was referring to LotR and The Hobbitt. I bet there are even more in The Silmarillian.
Reddrakk 03-20-08, 02:20 PM	I guess I'll find small niches in the game for the PHB races. But the dominant races will remain humans, feytouched, lizardfolk, and hobgoblins. If someone insists on being an elf, they'll be one of 5,000 alive.
MrWildman 03-20-08, 02:27 PM	I love having lots of races available in the 3.5 system. This gives me many choices in what to allow and what to restrict in any particular campaign. My main campaign world, Zarzia, is wide-open to any player's ideas or wishes. Ninjas, warforged, hengeyokai, anything goes. In our Dragonmech world the only races are humans and goblins. Our 12-level "adventure path" we're playing has humans, elves, gnomes and gnolls. We have on occasional game in "Feyworld", playing leprechauns and halflings with butterfly wings and such. More choices can lead to creative "culling of the herd", as it were, where the removal of a race can guide the background. Just my :twocents: Peace.
BugBytes 03-20-08, 02:45 PM	The main races (Gnomes, half-orcs, elves etc.) are a main staple in the D&D world. to make other races available for the players isn't a problem, it just means a little more paperwork. I say keep the races, but if you have problems with certain bonuses or class/race combination, just twist the Campaign so that your rules apply. Removing an entire race may agitate the players. But keep in mind, too many restrictions could present problems too.
Dvus 03-20-08, 02:59 PM	I would leave all races open to the players... but for some, you should require they have a really good background to make them fit. D
Kadasbrass 03-20-08, 03:58 PM	Depends on the nature of the campaign. If you allow all races but the world is mostly 80% only these few races over here, then you end up with the problem of the "unrealistic outsider" (such as trying to explain why there is a goblin player in a town that would just normally kill him on site). I like having good number of races but I think the limit needs to be drawn when having so many races starts cutting out the uniqueness of the races themselves. Races should be unique. You shouldn't have two races that are 3/4 the same thing except for one or two abilities. At that point think its just better to go with a custom race system (sort of a mutation point based system across the board).
Rhatahema 03-20-08, 06:04 PM	I consider some races to be subraces to deal with this problem. Animal-like races such as Catfolk, Kenku, Nezumi, and the like, are all just off-shoots of Anthropomorphic animals in my setting. This allows me to include a hundred different races without having having hundreds of different cultures on one continent. Of course, if your players are interested in all of the cultural background that goes along with the races, as opposed to the stat block, then it doesn't work so well.
Bobfred21 03-20-08, 06:20 PM	Personally, I find many of the standard races a little too boring and humanlike. In my campaign setting I've reflavored all of the races to be more unique and interesting. I've removed a few and added a few others. All in all the roster of playable races looks like this: Humans (of course), Elves (who are very rare and hated by most, lots of racism), Dwarves (Tend to be very philosophical, seen as shadows of their former glory because they were the dominant race in a great empire ages past. The discoverers of Magic), Orcs (Replacing Half-Orcs. Slaves en masse and facing an identity crisis about who they are and dealing with slavery, though some have been set free as a product of serving in a particularly large war) Goblins (Replacing Halflings. Very crafty and depending on where their from, shamanistic) Dal'Krae (Custom psionic race. Plagued by a magical illness which in the end will eventually kill every single Dal'Krae (ie. none of them die a natural death)) Unnamed race of Dragonmen (still hammering out the flavor for this one, their not actually related to dragons though) Changelings (still hammering out the flavor, doubt I'll leave them as descended from doppelgangers) Half-Elves removed. Gnomes removed. So I tend to like it when every race has a clear culture and place in the world. I think you can only have as many races as have good roleplaying applications. I like a lot more diversity in my world then typical fantasy worlds too. Too many races are too similar to humans.
Krusk 03-20-08, 06:51 PM	I leave anything with a low LA/HD (less than or equal to 4) as an option to players. I do make a note of which races are most populus in a given city though. For instance, in my current game, cities are generally a metropolitian mix of 50% human, 25% elf, 20% halfling, 5% other. There is also one dwarven city which is 90% dwarf, 7% human/halfling, and 3% other. Other contains anything not listed. So there is a chance for a PC to play a catfolk if they want, but they know ahead of time not to expect to see other catfolk wandering the streets on a regular basis. As I type I honestly think it is very much like the shadowrun world in terms of racial dynamics. Everyone is generally human, except for a few other common races, and the dwarven city (elven in shadowrun). Aside from that the only way to see other races is through plot device or PC characters.
Reddrakk 03-20-08, 07:45 PM	I definitely don't want people to feel restricted in terms of what they can play (within reason, of course). It's more an issue of where story-wise many of these races would be. I don't have anything against the PHB races (besides a genetic-level dislike of elves and halflings). I'll include the PHB races in the game as options to the players and require a background that's suitable for the game. When you get right down to it, there are hundreds of playable races out there and I guess it all comes down to whether people you play with want to be them.
M-bark 03-20-08, 07:58 PM	I usually let my players choose from everything they like, unless it would make the game needlessly complicated or a character much stronger than the others. If I would have to put up restrictions though, I would put in the following as the most common races: - humans - either halflings, gnomes, kobolds or goblins (the Small race) - either dwarves, elves, orcs, hobgoblins or bugbears - one planetouched race - one other, more monstrous race (including Thri-Kreen, Gith and such) - one other kind that's quite different (like Warforged) So 6. Seems like a good number.
Salla 03-20-08, 09:41 PM	A lot of it depends on how you set up your countries/nations. If you have 'Humanland' and 'Elfland' and 'Dwarfland', and so on, then you need to find places for Goblinland and Orcland and so forth so on. On the other hand, if your nations are already more mixed along racial lines, you don't have to find a specific race's place; the player just has to be from one of the nations and that race is already there.
Staple 03-21-08, 03:53 AM	Honestly, I see humans, gnomes, and full orcs get a lot of play time, but I've seen very, very few dwarves or anything that starts with "half." Cutting them may even be something your players notice.
Naderion 03-21-08, 07:04 AM	What? I guess that depends on how you define "race." I can think of 11 without even opening the books, not including sub-races. And I only read them once. I'm curious, but which ones? I can only think of Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Orcs and Goblins. There are some half-breeds and a lot of sub-races, but I think those are all.
M-bark 03-21-08, 07:56 AM	I'm curious, but which ones? I can only think of Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Orcs and Goblins. There are some half-breeds and a lot of sub-races, but I think those are all. Ents are also a race. And I'd count Uruk-hai as a race, too, rather than a subrace or a half-breed, if you consider Goblins and Orcs to be races (since Orcs were said to be mutated Elves and Goblins are the lesser cousins of Orcs). Counting more monstrous but sapient fellows as races would have me include Balrogs and dragons, too. Also, there are the Wizards. Since they aren't Humans or Elves or such (they're older than elves and possess vast magic powers), they could count as their own race (with only five members). That makes 11.
Reddrakk 03-21-08, 12:00 PM	A lot of it depends on how you set up your countries/nations. If you have 'Humanland' and 'Elfland' and 'Dwarfland', and so on, then you need to find places for Goblinland and Orcland and so forth so on. On the other hand, if your nations are already more mixed along racial lines, you don't have to find a specific race's place; the player just has to be from one of the nations and that race is already there. That's the thing. I definitely didn't want to be yet another world with an 'elfland, dwarfland, gnomeland', etc. So my world emphasizes lizardfolk (powered down to avoid the +1 level adjustment), hobgoblins, a variant on feytouched I found in this forum, and humans. I'm building a few custom races too, but the main idea is to NOT be another generic D&D world where the normal races are the dominant ones and they might have some slightly off-kilter history. For those that insist on playing another race, I'll let them. But they'll be playing it in a world where there aren't many others of their kind around (an elf is told he isn't allowed into the goblin trading metropolis).
Naderion 03-21-08, 03:00 PM	Ents are also a race. And I'd count Uruk-hai as a race, too, rather than a subrace or a half-breed, if you consider Goblins and Orcs to be races (since Orcs were said to be mutated Elves and Goblins are the lesser cousins of Orcs). Counting more monstrous but sapient fellows as races would have me include Balrogs and dragons, too. Also, there are the Wizards. Since they aren't Humans or Elves or such (they're older than elves and possess vast magic powers), they could count as their own race (with only five members). That makes 11. Okay, I think that's another way to view it. If you want to count ents and humans among the "humanoid races" is a matter of preference. But then wargs would be among them too. Demons and Wizards I would consider to be outsiders.
Orenmir 03-22-08, 12:29 AM	I'm curious, but which ones? I can only think of Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Orcs and Goblins. There are some half-breeds and a lot of sub-races, but I think those are all. Not counting animal races like Worgs. Not counting Subraces like Numenor. Not counting hybrids like Uruk-Hai. Human Elf Hobbitt Dwarf Orc Goblin Ent Maiar Troll Valar Dragon That's just what I remember from one read of the books. I'm sure if you leaf through the appendices, you could find more. To bring this back to topic... Even Middle Earth (which is what D&D was originally based off of) had many, many races. So, why worry about limiting the races in your world?
Naderion 03-22-08, 07:31 AM	Because the 5 monster manuals and other books easily come up to 300 or more. Depending on the amount of realism or the degree of suspension of disbelive, this simply doesn't work. Possible, but extremely unlikely. Really depends mostly on the basic theme of the setting. For example, my setting is based on the idea, that all races have a rich and deeply detailed culture and history with their own homelands which existed during the centuries. And for real civilizations, you need a quite great amount of individuals. Devide your 100,000,000 currently living individuals by 300 and you end up with 350,000 individuals per race on average. True, some much more, but many also much less. Or you raise the number of individuals and, but it will be extremely crowded. Such considerations might be completely inimportant to some settings, but vital to others. What works in Star Wars would not do in Alien.
unundindur 03-22-08, 07:49 AM	I'm for giving players the max amount of races to choose from for their characters. The NPCs, bad guys, townfolk, etc. are the DM's call. Seconded. I want to give players as much freedom as possible (I have a few restrictions too mind you), and keep flavour by governing NPCs and the general population. Players are just sole characters and don't have any severe impact on the big scale picture anyway, and players have a tendancy to "want" to be special, for good and bad. i am one of those players who would lose my inspiration if I couldn't be any type of elf...
ragoftag 03-23-08, 11:42 AM	I agree with Naderion, set the races to the world's flavor. My world has had several ages, how many depends on your point of view and education, with races left over from them all. Yes, I have at least 2 races Dragons refer to as 'grandfather'! There is a cursed race that partially ascended to divinity and were partially destroyed by a reality warping war in the 'Age of Dragons'. The dragons dispute this, but what do they know? Humans are a up and coming race whose greatness is obviously ahead of them. Their greatest power is the ability to work together, with cities being their greatest accomplishment to date. Previous urban centers capped in the 10k range, while some human cities are believed to exceed a million. Thats bogus! A million Humans? How? there aren't a tenth that many Elves in the world! And the list of such cities could reach a dozen? Poppycock! The towns, etc of the world are more homogeneous to lower population races (like Dwarf Holds' associated towns having Dwarf majorities), but the humans build bigger and are everywhere. Like the scurvy ridden rats they are! Currently, I have 20+ races for players to play, with another 20+ on the way. These are the Adventurer races, but not always the most common in the general population. Some races almost never adventure and others almost always do. Counting Sorcerers or the Spellscales as their own race would likely qualify as nearest to an absolute. All Elves could be considered as adventurers at some point in their youthful wanderings. Youthful Wanderings? It is OUR world! We no more 'wander' than you would in you pathetic excuse for a garden! And with that I must expel a guest from the house.
Reddrakk 04-26-08, 01:15 PM	In my world, humans are an ancient race that's in its twilight years. Their great kingdoms have been reduced to two great cities and hundreds of savage tribes living in old ruins. Lizardfolk were beaten down in the past by mammals, but seek to make a comeback. Feytouched serve their Fairy Lords and most are working to release the masters and restart the dream prisons. Hobgoblins are the up-and-coming race that has doubled their territory in the past 75 years. I also have four aquatic races and i'm making adventures that emphasize underwater locations (and making cheap items to encourage PCs to go there). I have as the main emphasized races: aquatic elves, lolcathah, kappa, and darfellan. All races have been adjusted so they are only LA 0. I'm keeping other races, but they have a diminished role. Not terribly many of them, often seen as enemies.
protosswarrior 04-26-08, 08:26 PM	a little off topic, but maybe you could have gith's (or any planar race for that matter) trying to take advantage of the instability of the world by launching an inter-dimensional invasion
vegetarianlibrarian 04-27-08, 11:06 AM	I don't have much to say but... I have much halfling love.:confused: Why's everyone so anti-hobbit?!
key 04-28-08, 10:28 AM	They have hairy feet.
Reddrakk 04-28-08, 11:52 AM	Yeah, the world will not suffer from lack of creatures trying to invade from other dimensions. I'm personally not a fan of giths though. I'm making some high-level mind-rape type fey for an invasion, and am planning another incursion of mooncalves/aberrations, and a final arc where formians are invading. As for halflings, have you ever realized that one with good acting and disguise, they could fulfill the loli fetish in the red light district?
key 04-28-08, 12:30 PM	As for halflings, have you ever realized that one with good acting and disguise, they could fulfill the loli fetish in the red light district? Yeah, but they wouldn't fare too well in drow society where johns can get the real thing.